Date   

Re: Moving Tekscopes?

 

Hi Knut,

On 21 Sep 2013 04:43, "Knut" <knut@...> wrote:
>
> On 2013-09-20, at 6:47 PM, cheater00 . wrote:
>
>> Dave has not quoted the message he was replying to, which has been against netiquette since at least 500 BC. You committed top posting ie writing the reply before the quote, which is also bad. Neither are issues with email per se.
>
> This is your opinion.

Nope, it is generally accepted. Reason being issues like people not understanding what Dave's reply even meant. See parallel thread called "top posting".

> I like to quote what I'm replying to as well simply to make sure that there is no misunderstanding what I'm referring to,

That's great, keep it up. But remove the parts that are irrelevant - otherwise you leave the reader trying to figure out what the point was of including a certain passage deliberately.

> but there are two Yahoo Groups I'm a member of where the administrator really frowns on anyone quoting from a previous post.

The administrator is wrong. You can learn to live with it, but it isn't right, just like any other broken regime (Communism, Apartheid, ...).

> Their argument is that it creates too much repetition in the archives and the digest which I can understand as well.

These persons need to configure their mail clients correctly.
If X writes a questiob about the 2465, and Y posts an answer, I'd much rather a search return the post with both the question and answer. Without proper quoting in Y's post I will not even know an answer existed.

> As to writing the reply before the quote - that makes sense if the quote is very long. (...) scroll down a page and a half to find some comment like "I agree"

Yiu should always trim your quotes. With long ones you can use an ellipsis like I have above.

> I usually place my replies first since I consider the quoted part just a reminder in case the person reading my message can't remember what the discussion was all about.

This assumes that your reply comes directly after the email you replied to. Very often that is not the case. The quote necessary for context can always be trimmed to a sentence or two.

Cheers,
D.


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

Don Black <donald_black@...>
 

I agree with Knut, though I do try (and sometimes fail) to remember to delete most of the previous messages, just leaving what I'm replying to. Sometimes it's a treasure hunt just to find where the reply starts if it's at the bottom. Also, some replies are spread throughout the original message to answer point by point. That can be appropriate sometimes if not overdone.
It's our differences that make the world go round, lots more to fret about than where a reply is placed.

Don Black.

On 21-Sep-13 12:43 PM, Knut wrote:
 


On 2013-09-20, at 6:47 PM, cheater00 . wrote:

 

Dave has not quoted the message he was replying to, which has been against netiquette since at least 500 BC. You committed top posting ie writing the reply before the quote, which is also bad. Neither are issues with email per se.

This is your opinion.

I like to quote what I'm replying to as well simply to make sure that there is no misunderstanding what I'm referring to, but there are two Yahoo Groups I'm a member of where the administrator really frowns on anyone quoting from a previous post.
Their argument is that it creates too much repetition in the archives and the digest which I can understand as well.

As to writing the reply before the quote - that makes sense if the quote is very long.as some of them have been in this group.
Doesn't make sense to have to scroll down a page and a half to find some comment like "I agree"

I usually place my replies first since I consider the quoted part just a reminder in case the person reading my message can't remember what the discussion was all about.

Knut


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

Knut <knut@...>
 


On 2013-09-20, at 6:47 PM, cheater00 . wrote:

 

Dave has not quoted the message he was replying to, which has been against netiquette since at least 500 BC. You committed top posting ie writing the reply before the quote, which is also bad. Neither are issues with email per se.

This is your opinion.

I like to quote what I'm replying to as well simply to make sure that there is no misunderstanding what I'm referring to, but there are two Yahoo Groups I'm a member of where the administrator really frowns on anyone quoting from a previous post.
Their argument is that it creates too much repetition in the archives and the digest which I can understand as well.

As to writing the reply before the quote - that makes sense if the quote is very long.as some of them have been in this group.
Doesn't make sense to have to scroll down a page and a half to find some comment like "I agree"

I usually place my replies first since I consider the quoted part just a reminder in case the person reading my message can't remember what the discussion was all about.

Knut


Re: Moving Tekscopes? archiving messages; clicking advert links

Robin Whittle
 

Hi Laura,

By clicking adverts and not buying anything you are causing advertisers
to pay money to Yahoo for no benefit to themselves. For a short while,
this probably benefits Yahoo. In the long term, it is a burden on both
Yahoo and the advertisers, since the advertisers get no value and will
therefore be less likely to continue advertising with Yahoo.

Even if Yahoo was relatively benign and responsive, having TekScopes
hosted by them in the current format is highly undesirable. We - the
list members - do not have easy access to the entire body of data we
have assembled here. We have little control over how it is presented
and used.

So even if Yahoo backtracks on Neo (which only affects certain accounts,
not mine yet) then I would still support moving TekScopes to an
independent server where one or a few people could keep it running, with
some financial input from others, such as $200 a year or so for a full
root-access cloud server and a domain name.

Because my account is yet to be Neoized, I can still run some software
which will grab all the messages and files. The only software I know of
which does this is working quite well. It requires some mollycoddling:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/grabyahoogroup/

I am about a third of the way through getting the messages. If all goes
well I should have them all in about 2 days. Then it should get all the
files. I will write a separate message about how I am doing this.

It shouldn't be this hard for group members to get a complete archive of
the messages. This is why I fully support moving to our own system,
beholden to no company.

- Robin

On 2013-09-21 2:14 AM, Laura wrote:

I haven't read anybody propose giving back to Yahoo. We use their
service with no charge, why not do something for Yahoo.

Yahoo makes money from adds. I click on at least two adds a day. It
takes a little time to click and then close the tab but it rewards yahoo
for giving me service.

What have you done for Yahoo lately?

Best regards,

Laura


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

 

On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 00:47:40 +0200, you wrote:

Knut,

On 20 Sep 2013 19:29, "Knut" <knut@kos.net> wrote:

That whole email concept ion Yahoo Groups is not really as fantastic as
some people make it out to be.

For one, it is not always clear what a message is all about like this one.

I have no clue what Dave is talking about unless I go to the Group
website to check which post he is replying to.

Dave has not quoted the message he was replying to, which has been against
netiquette since at least 500 BC. You committed top posting ie writing the
reply before the quote, which is also bad. Neither are issues with email
per se.

And in a very active thread like this one, emails also don't arrive in
the same order as they are sent, so the reply often arrives before the
comment or question.
I interact almost exclusively with Yahoo Groups via email and I have no trouble at all tracking which message is in reply to which because I
use an email client that supports threading. For groups that I check daily, I just list the messages in reverse order of date but when
needed, a threaded display is immediately available.

As far as top posting versus bottom posting, I agree but follow the convention being used by whoever I am replying to.

I have zero interest in a flat forum like the official Tektronix forum (http://www1.tek.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5) which is run using
phpbb which does not support threading or email.

Usually that happens only infrequently but in this thread it has happened
a lot lately simply because of the frequency of posting.

The other Yahoo Group that I'm a member of has relatively few posts per
day but tons of oictures and pdf files that members refer to - so it works
quite well in a bbphp environment.
I ran a phpbb forum like this for many years. It worked well for what we did but I was always looking for a threaded alternative with email
access.

For this group I think it makes sense to just wait six months as was
suggested already and see where Yahoo takes their "Group Service"- my two
cents worth - oops, sorry, I'm in Canada, we got rid of pennies, so a
nickels worth.
There is no need to commit irrevocably. Yahoo still sort of works and any alternative would need to be functioning before a transition
anyway so testing and evaluation will be possible.


Re: Top Posting

 

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 2:28 AM, Artek Manuals <manuals@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
On 9/20/2013 6:55 PM, cheater00 . wrote:
( Query off list)
Show me a reference/link where top posting is bad netiquette
Not trying to be a smart ass ...honest question

Top Posting Dave
Putting the reply on the list because someone else might be interested.

Cheater00

And here I thought it was just good netiquette when someone asks you a question OFF LIST ..to ask their permission BEFORE you re-post their comments to the world ...silly me

Dave
Sorry Dave, I haven't seen anything embarrassing in your email? Have I
missed something?

Damian


Re: Top Posting

Dave / NR1DX
 

On 9/20/2013 6:55 PM, cheater00 . wrote:
 


>
> ( Query off list)
> Show me a reference/link where top posting is bad netiquette
> Not trying to be a smart ass ...honest question
>
> Top Posting Dave

Putting the reply on the list because someone else might be interested.

Cheater00

And here I thought it was just good netiquette when someone asks you a question OFF LIST ..to ask their permission BEFORE you re-post their comments to the world ...silly me

Dave



-- 
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com


Re: 2465B Low Voltage Power Supply recapping -- lead spacing on some of the caps

mosaicmerc
 

--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, "vdonisa" <vdonisa@...> wrote:

Use Mouser part number 647-UPX1V101MPD if you have any concerns about lead spacing.

--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, Steve <steve65@> wrote:

I'm working through (that is to say, developing) a parts list for
recapping a 2465B low-voltage power supply. My starting point has been
the spreadsheets posted on this group's file section as well as the
spreadsheet on the files section of the TekScopArc group.

Existing capacitors C1025, C1260, C1280, C1300, C1330 and C1350 are
100uF, 25V devices with radial leads spaced at 5mm. The two spreadsheets
list replacement components with lead spacing of either 2.5mm (Nichicon
UPW1E101MED) or 3.5mm (Panasonic EEU-EB1H101S).

Just wondering how to install the caps with smaller lead spacing on the
board with 5mm spaced holes? Spread the leads apart and have the caps
stand off the surface of the board a bit instead of being flush against
it? Seeking the experience/advice of those who have gone before.

Thanks.

Steve

Thx for that tidbit Vdon.

I was checking the ESR of the caps I removed from the 2465 LVPS last week and i noticed that the 1uF film cap i used has an ESR of 1/10 that of the original Electrolytic bipolars that Tek used.

Anywayz...I put about 20 hours on the scope so far..all is well.
I noticed that the 2465 15Ohm thermistor paralleled resistors and the 270K that Menahem suggested be replaced were all within 5% of spec. No visible heating dmg on the board either so I left em alone.


Re: Top Posting

 

Hi Dave,

On 9/20/2013 5:47 PM, cheater00 . wrote:
On 20 Sep 2013 19:29, "Knut" <knut@kos.net> wrote:

That whole email concept ion Yahoo Groups is not really as fantastic as some people make it out to be.

For one, it is not always clear what a message is all about like this one.

I have no clue what Dave is talking about unless I go to the Group website to check which post he is replying to.
Dave has not quoted the message he was replying to, which has been against netiquette since at least 500 BC. You committed top posting ie writing the reply before the quote, which is also bad. Neither are issues with email per se.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 1:09 AM, Artek Manuals <Manuals@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
Knut,

( Query off list)
Show me a reference/link where top posting is bad netiquette
Not trying to be a smart ass ...honest question

Top Posting Dave
Putting the reply on the list because someone else might be interested.

I'm not Knut, I was replying to Knut.

Here's a couple references:

...from the guys who wrote the dictionary on computing:
http://catb.org/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
http://catb.org/jargon/html/B/bottom-post.html

...from the guys who standardized the internet:
http://www.w3.org/blog/2008/06/netiquette-w3c-mailing-list/

...from the guys developing one of the most popular operating systems:
https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser#What_is_top-posting_.28and_why_shouldn.27t_I_do_it.29.3F

...and from a very popular mailing list FAQ:
http://wijnands.home.xs4all.nl/nnq/nquote.html

Cheers,
D.


jayw_comark are you about?

 

I apologize in advance for using the board to contact someone specifically, but the new interface seems to leave me no choice.


jayw_comark

If you are out and about I would enjoy a quick chat about removing my existing TDS544A CRT/Shutter and installing a new unit.

Thank you for the bandwidth.

Cheers,

David


Re: 576 Step Generator Problem

drawding@pacbell.net
 

Albert,

Thank you for taking the time to go and measure your 576. I have noticed that you have done this for others on the list as well. It is very kind of you to do this and it is very much appreciated.

So I am planning to study your notes, study the circuit more, and test my 576. I plan to update the list with the results later on.

Thank you again,
Dave


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

lamontcranston17
 

I belong to a couple of forums and like the format much more than Tahoo Groups.
Take a look at The RadioBoard Forum
http://theradioboard.com/rb/index.php
You might even ask Dave a few questions, or there are a couple
other administrators also.
The members have many options to chose from.
It has a great search function, It archives all posts.
You can setup catagories, 465, 2465, tube scopes, etc.
Here's the forum source;
https://www.phpbb.com/
 Here's another forum,
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/
It also works very well, I think this different
underlying software.
 Play with these a bit, I think you'll see
forums are great.

 



--- In tekscopes@..., <machineguy59@...> wrote:

I use Internet Explorer and Avast on all my computers, have for years, and have NEVER had a problem.  I also do scheduled backups and scans for threats.  Nothing more than an occasional false alarm from one of the threat scanners.  I attribute this to the software I use AND my care when surfing new territory.  Still, I cant seem to get Yahoo spam filters to accurately sort my mail.

From: Steve Vineyard <willltinker@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 8:40 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Moving Tekscopes? /Chrome - OT
 
I also use Firefox and Avast ( security) and have NEVER had any issues.

Steve


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

 

Knut,

On 20 Sep 2013 19:29, "Knut" <knut@...> wrote:
>
> That whole email concept ion Yahoo Groups is not really as fantastic as some people make it out to be.
>
> For one, it is not always clear what a message is all about like this one.
>
> I have no clue what Dave is talking about unless I go to the Group website to check which post he is replying to.

Dave has not quoted the message he was replying to, which has been against netiquette since at least 500 BC. You committed top posting ie writing the reply before the quote, which is also bad. Neither are issues with email per se.

> And in a very active thread like this one, emails also don't arrive in the same order as they are sent, so the reply often arrives before the comment or question.
>
> Usually that happens only infrequently but in this thread it has happened a lot lately simply because of the frequency of posting.
>
> The other Yahoo Group that I'm a member of has relatively few posts per day but tons of oictures and pdf files that members refer to - so it works quite well in a bbphp environment.
>
> For this group I think it makes sense to just wait six months as was suggested already and see where Yahoo takes their "Group Service"- my two cents worth - oops, sorry, I'm in Canada, we got rid of pennies, so a nickels worth.
>
> Knut
>
> ------------------
>
> On 2013-09-20, at 10:21 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:
>
> > OK, Sorry I brought it up ...
> >
> > Dave
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
>     Individual Email | Traditional
>
> <*> To change settings online go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/join
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> <*> To change settings via email:
>     TekScopes-digest@...
>     TekScopes-fullfeatured@...
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     TekScopes-unsubscribe@...
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>     http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
>


Re: Moving Tekscopes? /Chrome - OT

 

I use Internet Explorer and Avast on all my computers, have for years, and have NEVER had a problem.  I also do scheduled backups and scans for threats.  Nothing more than an occasional false alarm from one of the threat scanners.  I attribute this to the software I use AND my care when surfing new territory.  Still, I cant seem to get Yahoo spam filters to accurately sort my mail.

From: Steve Vineyard
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 8:40 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Moving Tekscopes? /Chrome - OT
 
I also use Firefox and Avast ( security) and have NEVER had any issues.

Steve


Re: 576 Step Generator Problem

Albert Otten
 

... forgot the small current (up to 1.3 mA) via R195.

Albert



--- In TekScopes@..., <tekscopes@...> wrote:

A calculation for positive steps roughly confirms these results.

The current through the CL resistors (65.4 Ohm for 20mA limit) is the sum of the current delivered by the output voltage into R194 (6.04k) to virtual ground and into R192 (5k) to -75V. Then the CL voltage is ranging from -0.98 V at Vout = 0 V to -1.46 V at Vout = 20 V. In crude aproximation the opposite sign base-emitter voltages of Q169 and Q176 are eqaul so the same voltage range will hold for the base of Q169. 

Now 20 mA output load would pull base Q169 an additional 1.3 V down. At Vout = 0 V that would yield -2.3 V, the value at which D169 starts to conduct as mentioned in the manual and also reorted by you I think. But at Vout = 20 V limiting would occur already at about 13 mA.

Note that at Vout = 0 V most of the current from R192 will flow via R177 to keep Q184 open.

If R182 is easy to reach I would check the CL voltage there.


Albert




--- In TekScopes@..., <tekscopes@...> wrote:

Hi Dave,


Just for reference, this is what I measured in my 576 at Q169 base and steps =10 and CL=20mA.

Invert released (positive going steps): decreasing from -0.9 V to -1.5 V

Invert pressed in (negative steps):      increasing from +2.7 V to +3.3 V.

At CL=2A the steps are hardly visible and the base levels are 0.0 V and +1.7 V respectively. So obviously there is a voltage drop across the CL resistors.


Albert



Re: 576 Step Generator Problem

Albert Otten
 

A calculation for positive steps roughly confirms these results.

The current through the CL resistors (65.4 Ohm for 20mA limit) is the sum of the current delivered by the output voltage into R194 (6.04k) to virtual ground and into R192 (5k) to -75V. Then the CL voltage is ranging from -0.98 V at Vout = 0 V to -1.46 V at Vout = 20 V. In crude aproximation the opposite sign base-emitter voltages of Q169 and Q176 are eqaul so the same voltage range will hold for the base of Q169. 

Now 20 mA output load would pull base Q169 an additional 1.3 V down. At Vout = 0 V that would yield -2.3 V, the value at which D169 starts to conduct as mentioned in the manual and also reorted by you I think. But at Vout = 20 V limiting would occur already at about 13 mA.

Note that at Vout = 0 V most of the current from R192 will flow via R177 to keep Q184 open.

If R182 is easy to reach I would check the CL voltage there.


Albert




--- In TekScopes@..., <tekscopes@...> wrote:

Hi Dave,


Just for reference, this is what I measured in my 576 at Q169 base and steps =10 and CL=20mA.

Invert released (positive going steps): decreasing from -0.9 V to -1.5 V

Invert pressed in (negative steps):      increasing from +2.7 V to +3.3 V.

At CL=2A the steps are hardly visible and the base levels are 0.0 V and +1.7 V respectively. So obviously there is a voltage drop across the CL resistors.


Albert



Re: Moving Tekscopes?

Niall Sweeny <niall@...>
 

> The BBC says yahoo is doing well under the new leadership, especially in the US.
>
> I wish google hadn't changed the gmail interface, it is now much
> harder to quote and trim.
> They all mangle their websites periodically, except for Digikey. It
> makes work for designers and IT people.
> What can you do, it's free and works after a fashion....
>
> ST
 
Except that Digikey got rid of their BOM manager for non-commerical users – I miss that :-(
 
-Niall


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

Niall Sweeny <niall@...>
 

John,

The biggest problem would be the user names for the accounts. Mailman
uses the user's email address, while most of the other software tends
towards a simple user name, for example jgriessen, and also some of the
applications have limits on username lengths.

As I mentioned before, it gets a bit convoluted when you are trying to
integrate a bunch of different software programs to work well together
when they weren't designed to do that in the first place.

Were we to "own" our own server, it would be much easier to do all this,
since we could rely on the OS's method for maintaining user accounts and
passwords. However, when we rely on a hosting service to maintain our
software, integrating all this into a nice, seamless software interface
that easy to use for the members of the group is a heck of a lot more
difficult.

Mark
Mark et al:

The way to go here is to use OpenID/Oath2 technologies to provide authentication and authorization services for access to the group. That way all components could share an authorization token granted by either this group or by a 3rd party OAuth server (like Google/Facebook/Yahoo/MSoft etc...).

-Niall


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6184 - Release Date: 09/20/13


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

stefan_trethan
 

The BBC says yahoo is doing well under the new leadership, especially in the US.

I wish google hadn't changed the gmail interface, it is now much
harder to quote and trim.
They all mangle their websites periodically, except for Digikey. It
makes work for designers and IT people.
What can you do, it's free and works after a fashion....

ST

On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 6:57 PM, cheater00 . <cheater00@gmail.com> wrote:
Personally I
wouldn't wager bets whether it works for them or not.

Cheers,
D.


Re: Moving Tekscopes?

Knut <knut@...>
 

That whole email concept ion Yahoo Groups is not really as fantastic as some people make it out to be.

For one, it is not always clear what a message is all about like this one.

I have no clue what Dave is talking about unless I go to the Group website to check which post he is replying to.

And in a very active thread like this one, emails also don't arrive in the same order as they are sent, so the reply often arrives before the comment or question.

Usually that happens only infrequently but in this thread it has happened a lot lately simply because of the frequency of posting.

The other Yahoo Group that I'm a member of has relatively few posts per day but tons of oictures and pdf files that members refer to - so it works quite well in a bbphp environment.

For this group I think it makes sense to just wait six months as was suggested already and see where Yahoo takes their "Group Service"- my two cents worth - oops, sorry, I'm in Canada, we got rid of pennies, so a nickels worth.

Knut

------------------

On 2013-09-20, at 10:21 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:

OK, Sorry I brought it up ...

Dave

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