Date   

Re: OT: the capacitor curse

Richard Loken <richardlo@...>
 

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Stefan Trethan wrote:

P.S.: Who is Kim Kardashian? Should I know her, how many scopes has she
got? And will she sell any to make room for the nursery?
I recently saw a reference in a printed magazine to bad hehaviour by famous
people and they spoke of somebody named Kim Kardashian. I asked my wife
who Kim unpronouncable might be and she doesn't know either.

I assume it is one of the characters out of Babylon 5 or Deep Space 9 which
I sometimes watched back when I had a TV set. There were a group of aliens
on there called Kardashians weren't there?

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation recently made it easy for me not to
miss TV, they turned off all their rural television transmitters.

--
Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
Athabasca University : but you have to earn
Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'"
** richardlo@admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston


Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

magnustoelle
 

Hello,

I second Dave's statements on the usefulness of the HP 339A.

A bit of a show-off, but here you will find a few FFTs and plots which I contributed to Ralf's website some three years back:

http://www.amplifier.cd/Test_Equipment/Hewlett_Packard/HP_analyzer/HP339A.htm

It has proven its very good performance when tested with an AP System One.

Cheers,

Magnus


Re: OT: the capacitor curse

stefan_trethan
 

Thank you for that, I really needed the update since I have been TV-less like Dave since the public-service Broadcaster had the law changed so you are forced to pay them even if you don't have the decoder card to watch their stations. The only way to get out of paying is to get rid of all TVs, which I promptly did, and which will work until they have the law changed again so everyone has to pay no matter what.

I can highly recommend this fix, it is 100% effective and my set top box doesn't give me trouble any more. You are much more selective about what you watch if you actually have to do something (like find it on the web or buy a video).

ST

P.S.: Who is Kim Kardashian? Should I know her, how many scopes has she got? And will she sell any to make room for the nursery?





On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:06 PM, vdonisa <vdonisa@...> wrote:
Let me bring you up to date:

- Britney had a new album
- Wall Street messed it up big time
- Kim Kardashian is pregnant
- there's this new guy Justin Bieber


--- In TekScopes@..., Dave Daniel wrote:
>
> I fixed that by disconnecting my "cable box" (actually, a satellite
> receiver) and taking it to the recycle place. This approach has been
> working well for over eight years.
>
> DaveD
>
> On 4/22/2013 11:12 AM, Jim wrote:
> > So, who REALLY ever does a full power-down and cold re-boot on their
> > cable box?
> >
> > The junk we have from Time-Warner takes AT LEAST five minutes to do a
> > cold restart.  Much worse than the old tube-type TVs.  And ... one of
> > our brand new LCD TVs that DOES get powered down a lot?  Takes 30
> > seconds to reboot and acquire the cable box signal.
> >
> > Just like 1965.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that's progress.
> >
> > 73
> > Jim N6OTQ
> >
> >     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     *From:* vdonisa
> >     *To:* TekScopes@...
> >     *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2013 11:52 AM
> >     *Subject:* [TekScopes] Re: OT: the capacitor curse
> >
> >     To make it even more OT... the Chinese will build according to
> >     order/specs, I don't think they had much to say in the design of
> >     the box. In this particular case the installed capacitor looked
> >     genuine and within datasheet specs, I would attribute the failure
> >     to normal wear, not to the cap being fake or defective.
> >
> >     >  modern Chinese junk dies after 2-5 years
> >
> >
>




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Re: OT: CD labels and vibration (was OT: Changing Ebay)

Don Black <donald_black@...>
 

Sorry Dave, but this is on list.
I recently bought a CD from Artekmedia and unfortunately it was broken in two in the post, obviously something heavy had snapped it. The offer to either send a new disk or a download came immediately without any quibbles, just an apology. I simply got the download and all's well, really excellent service. And the scan is excellent too. We are indeed fortunate to have such a good service available, let's support it.

Thanks Dave,
Don Black.

On 23-Apr-13 5:26 AM, Artekmedia wrote:
 


On 4/21/2013 5:04 PM, vdonisa wrote:
SNIP


Since we're at it I would suggest to Dave to not use paper labels on the CDs, they tend to unbalance the disk and some DVD readers will tend to start in high speed mode with tons of vibrations... this is OK with desktop units but not so nice when it happens inside an >$1200 Thinkpad.... include the sticker in the envelope but don't affix it on the CD.... let the user decide if he wants to stick it on the disk or not...

Val

In 14 years in the business we have never had a complaint about labels coming loose or put on crooked that it causes vibration (and bit error) . Now that could just mean it happened and no one complained . We do use a full doughnut style label and have a jig that centers the label on the disk before adhesion.

  I only have records handy at the moment   going to back to 2008 ((I have to mount an old hard drive to go back further)) but I only show that you bought one CD from us in that time frame and that was only 5 weeks ago . IF that label is off center and causing vibration  we will happily reimburse your postage just to examine it and send you a replacement CD at no charge as well.

Letting the end user put the label on themselves is fraught with all kinds of problems
1) Most users do not have the jig to properly center the label.
2) I am willing to bet that at least one gonzo on every 250 will put the label on the wrong side. We have been known to do that ourselves when we get in a hurry , fortunately our process is to attache the label BEFORE the CD is burned which is self policing.
3) The current mailer weighs out at exactly 1 oz adding the paper backing for the label would put it over at 1.1 oz and your cost would go up another $1 per disk mailed. In your particular case since you seem to be an expert in the matter  if you purchase another CD from us you may request that the label be sent seperately and we will be happy to bill you for the additional postage.

Generally speaking there are a number of reasons not to use the CD other than for the  initial loading onto your hard-drive and for backup in case you have a drive crash.
1)Reading PDF's ( especially large ones) from a CD is very slow compared to reading it from your hard drive. Save the files to your hard drive and store the CD as backup
2) "Burned" CD's do not last forever, most industry studies I have seen suggest a 3 year life. I however  have 100's of burned CD's here going back 14 years and have never had one go bad. In fact the only bad "burned" CD I have ever seen was a competitors disk that someone mistakenly sent me for replacement. Actually not a reflection on the competitor  as I suspect that burned CD life is a function of storage practices more than anything,not the quality of the disk or the burner. To that end "Cool, Dry and Dark" is the mantra. "Pressed" CD/DVD commercial Music and Video , are another matter those have purported lives longer than the original owner.

And lest someone asks "why not print directly on the CD" ? the answer to that one
1) The raw CD price more than doubles ( would increase our cost about $1500/year)
2) Very few printers support printing direct CD's

Finally in closing let me reiterate our  warranty policy: ArtekMedia & ArtekManuals offers a lifetime ( yours or mine which ever is shorter)  warranty on all PDF's & CD's. If for ANY REASON your pdf file is no longer readable we will replace it via mail for the cost of postage or via download for free. When my own warranty runs out I have  made arrangements for all my files to become public domain via a popular download site so that all this work (2500+ manuals and growing) is not lost to what will be the antique collectors out there by then.


Sorry for the bandwidth but I needed to set the record straight, I will GLADLY ACCEPT FURTHER COMMENTS OFF LIST. pelase no more OT bandwidth on this subject

73
Dave
NR1DX
ArtekManuals.com



Cheers,
Valentin VE3VDO

--- In TekScopes@..., Dave Daniel wrote:



-- 
Dave Henderson
Manuals@...
www.Artekmanuals.com
PO Box 175
Welch,MN 55089
651-269-4265


Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

Dave Daniel
 

The Tek TM500 and TM5000 series instruments are highly useful. It is important to note, though, that if you are going to target particular plug-ins, you need to make sure that you have the correct mainframe (500 or 5000), as not all plug-ins work in both. Some do, some don't I'm still trying to sort this out (I just bought a TM5006 and have had a TM506 for a few years). The distortion analyzer mentioned below (AA5010) only works in the 5000-series frames.

There is also a "canned" set of Tek plug-ins that were basically (I think) modified versions of the plug-ins put together in a frame to make a high-performance distortion set, consisting of  TM504A Mod WQ frame, SG-505 Mod WQ, FG-503 Mod WR and AA-501A Mod WQ plug-ins. The instrument manual refers to the collection as "F7523A1 Mod WQ Distortion Test Set". The manual is available on the web, but I forget from what web site I downloaded it. I don't have any experience with this set up, but it looks intriguing. Maybe someone else owns one and can elucidate.

Cheers,
DaveD

On 4/22/2013 12:52 PM, David wrote:
 



--- In TekScopes@..., "cheater00 ." wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> De-lurking as I've been doing some measurement equipment related shopping :)
>
> I'm slowly building up my workbench, and was wondering if anyone could
> suggest what gear to get.
>
> After getting a Tek 7704 I now need a good sinewave generator for some
> work. I thought to myself, why buy just a sinewave generator, when I
> could get a distortion meter? Those have sinewave and square built in,
> are of variable frequency, and it's better to have one large box than
> two large boxes.
>
> Could someone suggest a good distortion analyzer that can be had
> relatively inexpensively? I'm probably looking at vintage equipment at
> this point because it can be had fairly cheaply. Something around 100
> Euro would be a good start, but it's only a very roughly estimated
> price range.. maybe those things can be had for much less -- or only
> for much more? Note - doesn't necessarily have to be tektronix...
> although I'll be perfectly happy if it is.
>
> Also: are distortion analyzers always limited to 20 Hz - 20 kHz, or
> are there not-too-unusual ones that go below 1Hz and high above?
>
> What is the 'workhorse' distortion analyzer? Is there one or a few
> that were very good and very popular? It's important to me not to buy
> something relatively unknown, so that when it breaks I can find
> replacements, schematics, and people who know how to repair them.
>
> What other tools - other than a distortion analyzer - could I see
> myself using when building filters, mixers, amplifiers, etc? In the
> future I'd also like to work a bit on tube circuits, but this is not
> currently a major focus.
>
> My plan is to get a distortion analyser (with integrated square and
> sine wave oscillators), and I already have a frequency counter for the
> Tek 7000 coming in. I'd probably get a curve tracer at some point too,
> and maybe a precision current and voltage source or precision
> amplifier. Still need an esr/LC meter, I saw some boxes online. To
> round this off I'd probably get an isolation transformer and possibly
> variac (or both in one box). Currently not planning for a tube tester
> or for anything that can measure transformers. Am I missing something
> as far as the most basic measurement equipment goes?
>
> Thanks,
> D.
>

I've not heard of a distortion analyzer that contains a square wave generator, however, the HP 339A will certainly handle the oscillator and distortion analysis criteria. The frequency range is 10Hz to 110Hz for both functions.
The HP 334A has a wider frequency range (5Hz to 600KHz, and also has an AM detector to allow distortion analysis on AM signals), but contains no oscillator output.
Both are frequently available on eBay.

You might investigate the Tektronix TM500 series of modular equipment. The series contains oscillators, function generators, scopes, counters, pulse generators, etc. The modules plug into a mainframe/power supply. This flexibility means that you can build an instrument containing all the instruments that you need for frequency response, distortion, etc., into a single package. If your aim is for scope repair and calibration, you can assemble all the needed equipment into a single package, interchanging the modules as you wish.
Most are on eBay frequently. These modules are somewhat more costly than conventionally packaged bench test equipment, but their small size and interchangeability are great benefits.

All that said, the equipemnt that you should target is highly dependent on the type of equipment that you will be servicing. Give us an example of the types and quality of the equipment to be serviced and we can offer more pertinent suggestions.

Cheers,
Dave M



OT: CD labels and vibration (was OT: Changing Ebay)

Artekmedia <manuals@...>
 


On 4/21/2013 5:04 PM, vdonisa wrote:
SNIP


Since we're at it I would suggest to Dave to not use paper labels on the CDs, they tend to unbalance the disk and some DVD readers will tend to start in high speed mode with tons of vibrations... this is OK with desktop units but not so nice when it happens inside an >$1200 Thinkpad.... include the sticker in the envelope but don't affix it on the CD.... let the user decide if he wants to stick it on the disk or not...

Val

In 14 years in the business we have never had a complaint about labels coming loose or put on crooked that it causes vibration (and bit error) . Now that could just mean it happened and no one complained . We do use a full doughnut style label and have a jig that centers the label on the disk before adhesion.

  I only have records handy at the moment   going to back to 2008 ((I have to mount an old hard drive to go back further)) but I only show that you bought one CD from us in that time frame and that was only 5 weeks ago . IF that label is off center and causing vibration  we will happily reimburse your postage just to examine it and send you a replacement CD at no charge as well.

Letting the end user put the label on themselves is fraught with all kinds of problems
1) Most users do not have the jig to properly center the label.
2) I am willing to bet that at least one gonzo on every 250 will put the label on the wrong side. We have been known to do that ourselves when we get in a hurry , fortunately our process is to attache the label BEFORE the CD is burned which is self policing.
3) The current mailer weighs out at exactly 1 oz adding the paper backing for the label would put it over at 1.1 oz and your cost would go up another $1 per disk mailed. In your particular case since you seem to be an expert in the matter  if you purchase another CD from us you may request that the label be sent seperately and we will be happy to bill you for the additional postage.

Generally speaking there are a number of reasons not to use the CD other than for the  initial loading onto your hard-drive and for backup in case you have a drive crash.
1)Reading PDF's ( especially large ones) from a CD is very slow compared to reading it from your hard drive. Save the files to your hard drive and store the CD as backup
2) "Burned" CD's do not last forever, most industry studies I have seen suggest a 3 year life. I however  have 100's of burned CD's here going back 14 years and have never had one go bad. In fact the only bad "burned" CD I have ever seen was a competitors disk that someone mistakenly sent me for replacement. Actually not a reflection on the competitor  as I suspect that burned CD life is a function of storage practices more than anything,not the quality of the disk or the burner. To that end "Cool, Dry and Dark" is the mantra. "Pressed" CD/DVD commercial Music and Video , are another matter those have purported lives longer than the original owner.

And lest someone asks "why not print directly on the CD" ? the answer to that one
1) The raw CD price more than doubles ( would increase our cost about $1500/year)
2) Very few printers support printing direct CD's

Finally in closing let me reiterate our  warranty policy: ArtekMedia & ArtekManuals offers a lifetime ( yours or mine which ever is shorter)  warranty on all PDF's & CD's. If for ANY REASON your pdf file is no longer readable we will replace it via mail for the cost of postage or via download for free. When my own warranty runs out I have  made arrangements for all my files to become public domain via a popular download site so that all this work (2500+ manuals and growing) is not lost to what will be the antique collectors out there by then.


Sorry for the bandwidth but I needed to set the record straight, I will GLADLY ACCEPT FURTHER COMMENTS OFF LIST. pelase no more OT bandwidth on this subject

73
Dave
NR1DX
ArtekManuals.com



Cheers,
Valentin VE3VDO

--- In TekScopes@..., Dave Daniel wrote:



-- 
Dave Henderson
Manuals@...
www.Artekmanuals.com
PO Box 175
Welch,MN 55089
651-269-4265


Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

Don Black <donald_black@...>
 

I don't own a 7104. However there has been a lot of discussion here about them lately and while they are a marvelous work of art the CRT is delicate. In particular the micro Chanel wears out with use, particularly at higher intensity. If you need it's performance it's a great choice but for day to day use you'd be better off a model down (what you have should be more than enough for what you're doing).

Don Black.

On 23-Apr-13 5:10 AM, cheater00 . wrote:
 

Thanks for the tips, guys.

Here's the kind of projects I'd be interested in mostly:
- line and headphone amplifiers. Not solid-state power amplifiers
except for low-power (say 20 Watt)
- audio mixers
- tube power amplifiers, guitar amplifiers (this is the maximum
voltage I'd want to probe things at.. what's your experience - probes
safe up to 1kV should be good for that general area, right?)
- equalizers
- VCA's VCF's, VCO's for musical synthesizers
- audio compressors
- power supplies (output impedance testing, ...)

no radio or scope testing. The maximal amount of work I'd do in scope
testing would be to see if the 7704 I have still works OK after I
recap it (if I do at all). If I really needed to get a scope that can
do reliable measurements I'd probably go the whole way and import a
7104(A) - or two - from the states.

Perhaps the most ambitious projects would be a high-headroom,
low-noise DAC and headphone amplifier, or a high-headroom mastering
mixing desk with 16 channels with a useable freq range of DC to ~400
kHz.

Thanks again
Damian

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:52 PM, David <dgminala@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In TekScopes@..., "cheater00 ." wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>> De-lurking as I've been doing some measurement equipment related shopping :)
>>
>> I'm slowly building up my workbench, and was wondering if anyone could
>> suggest what gear to get.
>>
>> After getting a Tek 7704 I now need a good sinewave generator for some
>> work. I thought to myself, why buy just a sinewave generator, when I
>> could get a distortion meter? Those have sinewave and square built in,
>> are of variable frequency, and it's better to have one large box than
>> two large boxes.
>>
>> Could someone suggest a good distortion analyzer that can be had
>> relatively inexpensively? I'm probably looking at vintage equipment at
>> this point because it can be had fairly cheaply. Something around 100
>> Euro would be a good start, but it's only a very roughly estimated
>> price range.. maybe those things can be had for much less -- or only
>> for much more? Note - doesn't necessarily have to be tektronix...
>> although I'll be perfectly happy if it is.
>>
>> Also: are distortion analyzers always limited to 20 Hz - 20 kHz, or
>> are there not-too-unusual ones that go below 1Hz and high above?
>>
>> What is the 'workhorse' distortion analyzer? Is there one or a few
>> that were very good and very popular? It's important to me not to buy
>> something relatively unknown, so that when it breaks I can find
>> replacements, schematics, and people who know how to repair them.
>>
>> What other tools - other than a distortion analyzer - could I see
>> myself using when building filters, mixers, amplifiers, etc? In the
>> future I'd also like to work a bit on tube circuits, but this is not
>> currently a major focus.
>>
>> My plan is to get a distortion analyser (with integrated square and
>> sine wave oscillators), and I already have a frequency counter for the
>> Tek 7000 coming in. I'd probably get a curve tracer at some point too,
>> and maybe a precision current and voltage source or precision
>> amplifier. Still need an esr/LC meter, I saw some boxes online. To
>> round this off I'd probably get an isolation transformer and possibly
>> variac (or both in one box). Currently not planning for a tube tester
>> or for anything that can measure transformers. Am I missing something
>> as far as the most basic measurement equipment goes?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> D.
>>
>
>
> I've not heard of a distortion analyzer that contains a square wave generator, however, the HP 339A will certainly handle the oscillator and distortion analysis criteria. The frequency range is 10Hz to 110Hz for both functions.
> The HP 334A has a wider frequency range (5Hz to 600KHz, and also has an AM detector to allow distortion analysis on AM signals), but contains no oscillator output.
> Both are frequently available on eBay.
>
> You might investigate the Tektronix TM500 series of modular equipment. The series contains oscillators, function generators, scopes, counters, pulse generators, etc. The modules plug into a mainframe/power supply. This flexibility means that you can build an instrument containing all the instruments that you need for frequency response, distortion, etc., into a single package. If your aim is for scope repair and calibration, you can assemble all the needed equipment into a single package, interchanging the modules as you wish.
> Most are on eBay frequently. These modules are somewhat more costly than conventionally packaged bench test equipment, but their small size and interchangeability are great benefits.
>
> All that said, the equipemnt that you should target is highly dependent on the type of equipment that you will be servicing. Give us an example of the types and quality of the equipment to be serviced and we can offer more pertinent suggestions.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave M
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



Re: 7844 - the next level of gremlins

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Interesting - Do any of the neons on the relevant Z-Axis board fire?

Dave
Late reply - long weekend in Istanbul.

Answer - no.

Craig


Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

 

Thanks for the tips, guys.

Here's the kind of projects I'd be interested in mostly:
- line and headphone amplifiers. Not solid-state power amplifiers
except for low-power (say 20 Watt)
- audio mixers
- tube power amplifiers, guitar amplifiers (this is the maximum
voltage I'd want to probe things at.. what's your experience - probes
safe up to 1kV should be good for that general area, right?)
- equalizers
- VCA's VCF's, VCO's for musical synthesizers
- audio compressors
- power supplies (output impedance testing, ...)

no radio or scope testing. The maximal amount of work I'd do in scope
testing would be to see if the 7704 I have still works OK after I
recap it (if I do at all). If I really needed to get a scope that can
do reliable measurements I'd probably go the whole way and import a
7104(A) - or two - from the states.

Perhaps the most ambitious projects would be a high-headroom,
low-noise DAC and headphone amplifier, or a high-headroom mastering
mixing desk with 16 channels with a useable freq range of DC to ~400
kHz.

Thanks again
Damian

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:52 PM, David <dgminala@mediacombb.net> wrote:


--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, "cheater00 ." <cheater00@...> wrote:

Hi guys,
De-lurking as I've been doing some measurement equipment related shopping :)

I'm slowly building up my workbench, and was wondering if anyone could
suggest what gear to get.

After getting a Tek 7704 I now need a good sinewave generator for some
work. I thought to myself, why buy just a sinewave generator, when I
could get a distortion meter? Those have sinewave and square built in,
are of variable frequency, and it's better to have one large box than
two large boxes.

Could someone suggest a good distortion analyzer that can be had
relatively inexpensively? I'm probably looking at vintage equipment at
this point because it can be had fairly cheaply. Something around 100
Euro would be a good start, but it's only a very roughly estimated
price range.. maybe those things can be had for much less -- or only
for much more? Note - doesn't necessarily have to be tektronix...
although I'll be perfectly happy if it is.

Also: are distortion analyzers always limited to 20 Hz - 20 kHz, or
are there not-too-unusual ones that go below 1Hz and high above?

What is the 'workhorse' distortion analyzer? Is there one or a few
that were very good and very popular? It's important to me not to buy
something relatively unknown, so that when it breaks I can find
replacements, schematics, and people who know how to repair them.

What other tools - other than a distortion analyzer - could I see
myself using when building filters, mixers, amplifiers, etc? In the
future I'd also like to work a bit on tube circuits, but this is not
currently a major focus.

My plan is to get a distortion analyser (with integrated square and
sine wave oscillators), and I already have a frequency counter for the
Tek 7000 coming in. I'd probably get a curve tracer at some point too,
and maybe a precision current and voltage source or precision
amplifier. Still need an esr/LC meter, I saw some boxes online. To
round this off I'd probably get an isolation transformer and possibly
variac (or both in one box). Currently not planning for a tube tester
or for anything that can measure transformers. Am I missing something
as far as the most basic measurement equipment goes?

Thanks,
D.

I've not heard of a distortion analyzer that contains a square wave generator, however, the HP 339A will certainly handle the oscillator and distortion analysis criteria. The frequency range is 10Hz to 110Hz for both functions.
The HP 334A has a wider frequency range (5Hz to 600KHz, and also has an AM detector to allow distortion analysis on AM signals), but contains no oscillator output.
Both are frequently available on eBay.

You might investigate the Tektronix TM500 series of modular equipment. The series contains oscillators, function generators, scopes, counters, pulse generators, etc. The modules plug into a mainframe/power supply. This flexibility means that you can build an instrument containing all the instruments that you need for frequency response, distortion, etc., into a single package. If your aim is for scope repair and calibration, you can assemble all the needed equipment into a single package, interchanging the modules as you wish.
Most are on eBay frequently. These modules are somewhat more costly than conventionally packaged bench test equipment, but their small size and interchangeability are great benefits.

All that said, the equipemnt that you should target is highly dependent on the type of equipment that you will be servicing. Give us an example of the types and quality of the equipment to be serviced and we can offer more pertinent suggestions.

Cheers,
Dave M



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

 

--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, "cheater00 ." <cheater00@...> wrote:

Hi guys,
De-lurking as I've been doing some measurement equipment related shopping :)

I'm slowly building up my workbench, and was wondering if anyone could
suggest what gear to get.

After getting a Tek 7704 I now need a good sinewave generator for some
work. I thought to myself, why buy just a sinewave generator, when I
could get a distortion meter? Those have sinewave and square built in,
are of variable frequency, and it's better to have one large box than
two large boxes.

Could someone suggest a good distortion analyzer that can be had
relatively inexpensively? I'm probably looking at vintage equipment at
this point because it can be had fairly cheaply. Something around 100
Euro would be a good start, but it's only a very roughly estimated
price range.. maybe those things can be had for much less -- or only
for much more? Note - doesn't necessarily have to be tektronix...
although I'll be perfectly happy if it is.

Also: are distortion analyzers always limited to 20 Hz - 20 kHz, or
are there not-too-unusual ones that go below 1Hz and high above?

What is the 'workhorse' distortion analyzer? Is there one or a few
that were very good and very popular? It's important to me not to buy
something relatively unknown, so that when it breaks I can find
replacements, schematics, and people who know how to repair them.

What other tools - other than a distortion analyzer - could I see
myself using when building filters, mixers, amplifiers, etc? In the
future I'd also like to work a bit on tube circuits, but this is not
currently a major focus.

My plan is to get a distortion analyser (with integrated square and
sine wave oscillators), and I already have a frequency counter for the
Tek 7000 coming in. I'd probably get a curve tracer at some point too,
and maybe a precision current and voltage source or precision
amplifier. Still need an esr/LC meter, I saw some boxes online. To
round this off I'd probably get an isolation transformer and possibly
variac (or both in one box). Currently not planning for a tube tester
or for anything that can measure transformers. Am I missing something
as far as the most basic measurement equipment goes?

Thanks,
D.

I've not heard of a distortion analyzer that contains a square wave generator, however, the HP 339A will certainly handle the oscillator and distortion analysis criteria. The frequency range is 10Hz to 110Hz for both functions.
The HP 334A has a wider frequency range (5Hz to 600KHz, and also has an AM detector to allow distortion analysis on AM signals), but contains no oscillator output.
Both are frequently available on eBay.

You might investigate the Tektronix TM500 series of modular equipment. The series contains oscillators, function generators, scopes, counters, pulse generators, etc. The modules plug into a mainframe/power supply. This flexibility means that you can build an instrument containing all the instruments that you need for frequency response, distortion, etc., into a single package. If your aim is for scope repair and calibration, you can assemble all the needed equipment into a single package, interchanging the modules as you wish.
Most are on eBay frequently. These modules are somewhat more costly than conventionally packaged bench test equipment, but their small size and interchangeability are great benefits.

All that said, the equipemnt that you should target is highly dependent on the type of equipment that you will be servicing. Give us an example of the types and quality of the equipment to be serviced and we can offer more pertinent suggestions.

Cheers,
Dave M


Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

David Gravereaux
 

On 04/22/2013 10:32 AM, cheater00 . wrote:
What is the 'workhorse' distortion analyzer? Is there one or a few
that were very good and very popular?
A bit esoteric, but I like these.

A Tektronix TM5006 with an AA5001 and an SG5010. About as good as it
gets in the analog domain, plus you can write GPIB scripts for it to
control it digitally (old but still modern enough). With the remainder
2-slots left in the mainframe, I like to have an SC502 scope dedicated
to watching 'function out' and 'input monitor'.

For an inductance meter, I made my own using an A6302 current probe,
AM5030 probe amp, a couple DM5010 meters for measuring A/C volts and
solved for X sub-L in a GPIB script.

With the scope, you'd be looking at around USD$1500 or so on the used
market.

--
David Gravereaux <davygrvy@pobox.com>


TDS420A Four Channel Scope for sale

EnBePe <nigel-pritchard@...>
 

I've got a TDS420A 200MHz 4-channel DSO for sale in the UK. Passes all self tests and appears to be fully operative.

If interested let me know and I'll provide further info and photos.

Regards

Nigel


Sony/Tektronix 381 for sale

EnBePe <nigel-pritchard@...>
 

I've got a 381 PAL Test Monitor for sale in the UK. Appears to be fully operative in both vector and timebase mode. If interested let me know and I'll provide more info and photos.

Regards

Nigel


CSA803A for sale

EnBePe <nigel-pritchard@...>
 

I've got a CSA803A Communications Systems Analyser for sale. No plug-ins but it passes all self-tests so should be OK. For collection in the UK only. If interested let me know and I can provide more details and photos.

Regards

Nigel


Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

Dave Daniel
 

All of these seem to go for a lot more now than I remember.

DaveD

On 4/22/2013 12:22 PM, David Wise wrote:
 

In its official role as distortion meter, the 339A is MUCH easier to use due to its automatic leveling and nulling, but this is also its weakness, as you can’t turn these features off.  The all-manual 331A can be pressed into service as a general-purpose tunable notch filter, and it goes up to 600kHz vs 110kHz for the 339A.   The 334A has automatic nulling which can be turned off, but leveling is manual.  If you need to check the distortion in the modulation of an AM signal, the RF Detector in the 332A and 334A covers a wider frequency range than the one in the 339A.

 

If you can’t have them all, you have to decide what you want the most.

 

Dave Wise

 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of Dave Daniel
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 11:10 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

 



The HP 339A has a lower distortion floor than the HP 331A has (0.002% vs 0.01%) and has a low-distortion oscillator built in. It took me awhile to find a 339A a an affordable price, but I'm glad I bought it. They're both good instruments, but the 339A is more useful IMHO.

DaveD

On 4/22/2013 11:56 AM, Bob Albert wrote:

 

I have an HP 331A which covers 5 Hz to 600 kHz.  It has no sine output, however.

Bob

--- On Mon, 4/22/13, cheater00 . wrote:


From: cheater00 .
Subject: [TekScopes] Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Monday, April 22, 2013, 10:32 AM

 

Hi guys,
De-lurking as I've been doing some measurement equipment related shopping :)

I'm slowly building up my workbench, and was wondering if anyone could
suggest what gear to get.

After getting a Tek 7704 I now need a good sinewave generator for some
work. I thought to myself, why buy just a sinewave generator, when I
could get a distortion meter? Those have sinewave and square built in,
are of variable frequency, and it's better to have one large box than
two large boxes.

Could someone suggest a good distortion analyzer that can be had
relatively inexpensively? I'm probably looking at vintage equipment at
this point because it can be had fairly cheaply. Something around 100
Euro would be a good start, but it's only a very roughly estimated
price range.. maybe those things can be had for much less -- or only
for much more? Note - doesn't necessarily have to be tektronix...
although I'll be perfectly happy if it is.

Also: are distortion analyzers always limited to 20 Hz - 20 kHz, or
are there not-too-unusual ones that go below 1Hz and high above?

What is the 'workhorse' distortion analyzer? Is there one or a few
that were very good and very popular? It's important to me not to buy
something relatively unknown, so that when it breaks I can find
replacements, schematics, and people who know how to repair them.

What other tools - other than a distortion analyzer - could I see
myself using when building filters, mixers, amplifiers, etc? In the
future I'd also like to work a bit on tube circuits, but this is not
currently a major focus.

My plan is to get a distortion analyser (with integrated square and
sine wave oscillators), and I already have a frequency counter for the
Tek 7000 coming in. I'd probably get a curve tracer at some point too,
and maybe a precision current and voltage source or precision
amplifier. Still need an esr/LC meter, I saw some boxes online. To
round this off I'd probably get an isolation transformer and possibly
variac (or both in one box). Currently not planning for a tube tester
or for anything that can measure transformers. Am I missing something
as far as the most basic measurement equipment goes?

Thanks,
D.







11401 for sale

EnBePe <nigel-pritchard@...>
 

I've got a 11401 for sale. Seems to be working OK although it does not have any plug-ins so I can't verify it completely. For collection in the UK only. If interested let me know and I can provide more info, photos etc.

Regards

Nigel


Re: OT: the capacitor curse

Herbert
 

Hi Stefan,

keep in mind, that even in the EU the warranty period is only 6 month for a "real" warranty.
After this time the "burden of proof" ( Beweislastumkehr) is active, that means, that the client has to proof, that the fault was in the construction or "growing"  in the part. This means that the client / customer needs to provide on own cost a report of an expert (Gutachten)  which is "real gambling" !

Herbert
 

Am 22.04.2013 17:58, schrieb Stefan Trethan:

 

Only at the equator, the year is shorter near the poles, obviously. ;-)

Seriously what do you expect. You want to buy that cable box cheap, and they want to sell you as many as possible. Warranty period in the EU is two years. Surely you can figure it out what is going on from here......

There are markets that will grudgingly pay a premium for reliability, such as industrial and medical, consumer electronics is not one of them.

Power off all equipment when not in use, and consider yourself lucky that you can at least change the caps. 98.3% of the population has to go and buy a new box.

ST


On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Measurement <measurement@...> wrote:


Hi

by the way .... 1 year == 8760 hours


Re: Tek 2230 repair help

Jerry Barr
 

hi folks /kinda new here /but in reading the posts on the 2230 scope / i have a 2236 with no scan/waiting on a hi volt probe /all the low b supplys are  right on / but when i power up i do hear a low but high pitched squeel such as u usta hear in the old tvs horizontal / but dont hear any of that in  my 454/is that perhaps an indicator of my issue/ the multimeter and counter seem to work when i put the probe into the cal port on either scope/ thanks
 
Jerry KJ6NTL

From: David C. Partridge
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: Tek 2230 repair help
 
Squegging?

Regards,
David Partridge
-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: 22 April 2013 17:50
To: mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Tek 2230 repair help

I am not be surprised by this. U930 lacks any local power supply decoupling between pin 12 and pin 13 and probably should also have another decoupling capacitor directly between pins 8/11 and 13. If I ever have any of my 22xx power supplies apart, I will make those two additions and probably add a 33 volt zener to clamp C925 as well.

I suspect Tektronix had some problems with Q9070 oscillating as well since they not only included the gate dampening resistor R909 but inserted an RF suppression bead at the source pin. There is an old term like howl or squeal that escapes me at the moment for negative resistance oscillations in vacuum tubes that applies to MOSFETs.

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:11:42 -0000, "chipbee40" <mailto:chipbee40%40yahoo.com>
wrote:

> . . . although the output of U930 has been shown to produce HF oscillation within its switching waveform which can overheat and destroy the mosfet, but not usually quickly . . .
>
>--- In mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com, David >>
>> I will save this in my 2230 notes.
>>
>> Do you have any insight into the configuration Tektronix used? It
>> looks to me like a cross between a discontinuous flyback and
>> discontinuous SEPIC converter. I assume Tektronix chose the topology
>> to minimize stress on the power switch but I am surprised they could
>> not use a bipolar power transistor instead of a MOSFET.

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

Dave Wise
 

In its official role as distortion meter, the 339A is MUCH easier to use due to its automatic leveling and nulling, but this is also its weakness, as you can’t turn these features off.  The all-manual 331A can be pressed into service as a general-purpose tunable notch filter, and it goes up to 600kHz vs 110kHz for the 339A.   The 334A has automatic nulling which can be turned off, but leveling is manual.  If you need to check the distortion in the modulation of an AM signal, the RF Detector in the 332A and 334A covers a wider frequency range than the one in the 339A.

 

If you can’t have them all, you have to decide what you want the most.

 

Dave Wise

 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of Dave Daniel
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 11:10 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?

 



The HP 339A has a lower distortion floor than the HP 331A has (0.002% vs 0.01%) and has a low-distortion oscillator built in. It took me awhile to find a 339A a an affordable price, but I'm glad I bought it. They're both good instruments, but the 339A is more useful IMHO.

DaveD

On 4/22/2013 11:56 AM, Bob Albert wrote:

 

I have an HP 331A which covers 5 Hz to 600 kHz.  It has no sine output, however.

Bob

--- On Mon, 4/22/13, cheater00 . <cheater00@...> wrote:


From: cheater00 . <cheater00@...>
Subject: [TekScopes] Audio test generator and measurement - can anyone suggest a good set?
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Monday, April 22, 2013, 10:32 AM

 

Hi guys,
De-lurking as I've been doing some measurement equipment related shopping :)

I'm slowly building up my workbench, and was wondering if anyone could
suggest what gear to get.

After getting a Tek 7704 I now need a good sinewave generator for some
work. I thought to myself, why buy just a sinewave generator, when I
could get a distortion meter? Those have sinewave and square built in,
are of variable frequency, and it's better to have one large box than
two large boxes.

Could someone suggest a good distortion analyzer that can be had
relatively inexpensively? I'm probably looking at vintage equipment at
this point because it can be had fairly cheaply. Something around 100
Euro would be a good start, but it's only a very roughly estimated
price range.. maybe those things can be had for much less -- or only
for much more? Note - doesn't necessarily have to be tektronix...
although I'll be perfectly happy if it is.

Also: are distortion analyzers always limited to 20 Hz - 20 kHz, or
are there not-too-unusual ones that go below 1Hz and high above?

What is the 'workhorse' distortion analyzer? Is there one or a few
that were very good and very popular? It's important to me not to buy
something relatively unknown, so that when it breaks I can find
replacements, schematics, and people who know how to repair them.

What other tools - other than a distortion analyzer - could I see
myself using when building filters, mixers, amplifiers, etc? In the
future I'd also like to work a bit on tube circuits, but this is not
currently a major focus.

My plan is to get a distortion analyser (with integrated square and
sine wave oscillators), and I already have a frequency counter for the
Tek 7000 coming in. I'd probably get a curve tracer at some point too,
and maybe a precision current and voltage source or precision
amplifier. Still need an esr/LC meter, I saw some boxes online. To
round this off I'd probably get an isolation transformer and possibly
variac (or both in one box). Currently not planning for a tube tester
or for anything that can measure transformers. Am I missing something
as far as the most basic measurement equipment goes?

Thanks,
D.






Re: OT: the capacitor curse

Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...>
 

So much for progress.

There seem to be lots of engineering jobs in China though. And salaries, while still a lot lower than here, are rapidly increasing. I expect their test gear to surpass Tek and Agilent at some point.

On 4/22/2013 2:06 PM, vdonisa wrote:

Let me bring you up to date:

- Britney had a new album
- Wall Street messed it up big time
- Kim Kardashian is pregnant
- there's this new guy Justin Bieber

--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:

I fixed that by disconnecting my "cable box" (actually, a satellite
receiver) and taking it to the recycle place. This approach has been
working well for over eight years.

DaveD

On 4/22/2013 11:12 AM, Jim wrote:
So, who REALLY ever does a full power-down and cold re-boot on their
cable box?

The junk we have from Time-Warner takes AT LEAST five minutes to do a
cold restart. Much worse than the old tube-type TVs. And ... one of
our brand new LCD TVs that DOES get powered down a lot? Takes 30
seconds to reboot and acquire the cable box signal.

Just like 1965.

Gentlemen, that's progress.

73
Jim N6OTQ

----------------------------------------------------------
*From:* vdonisa <vdonisa@...>
*To:* TekScopes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2013 11:52 AM
*Subject:* [TekScopes] Re: OT: the capacitor curse

To make it even more OT... the Chinese will build according to
order/specs, I don't think they had much to say in the design of
the box. In this particular case the installed capacitor looked
genuine and within datasheet specs, I would attribute the failure
to normal wear, not to the cap being fake or defective.

modern Chinese junk dies after 2-5 years
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