Lazy man's guide to 2467B HVPS cleaning and re-cap
vdonisa
The subject says it all, I felt too lazy to do a complete disassembly of the board (i.e. remove the top panel / assembly) so I found out that if you don't mind the board being held captive by the high voltage cable, you can still do the cleaning & re-cap work on it. Short self-explanatory photo guide posted here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/photos/album/1649030095/pic/1700662428/view New caps are Nichicon UBT1V101MPD, same physical size / capacity/ voltage as the ones I found in place. Except the new ones are rated 5000h/125C, should last for a while :-) Cheers, Valentin VE3VDO
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Re: Why X1 probes have low bandwidth
Dave C <davec2468@...>
However, since I am still working where I work, I cannot share details. After I am no longer working there, I don't know how long my non-disclosure agreement may apply. Needless to say -- "same thing different day" 73 Jim N6OTQ -=-=-=- Your NDA includes discussion about observations of what management does (or not)? It's usually limited to your field of technical expertise, in my experience. Dave
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7904A and X-Y Display -- Help !
jsternmd
My 7904A seems to work fine for routine use with my various Vertical amps and timebases. However, I can't get it to work in X-Y display. I have a 7A26 in right vertical and a 7B70 in the left (A) Horizontal slot with nothing in the B-horizontal slot. As I understand the instruction manual, the 7B80 should be switched from Timebase to Amplifier and external/DC selected but when I do this the 7904A "A" slot light next to the Intensity control goes out and the "B" light comes on and the display is lost. There is nothing in the B slot. Also the Horizontal Mode button selected for A or B lights up correctly but has no effect on the getting anyt display. If I try to reverse things by putting the 7B70 into the B horizontal slot with the A slot empty, it works normally as timebase with B light on but as soon as I switch it to Amplifer mode, the B light goes out and the A light comes on. I tried to input two simple sine wave signals 90deg out of phase but cannot get anything on display. I also have a 7B80 with X-Y option and it shows the exact same behavior switching from timebase to X-Y.
Any advice approeciated. Jerry K1JOS
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Re: Mystery capacitors in 2467B HVPS
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 02:25:05 -0000, "vdonisa" <vdonisa@yahoo.com>
wrote: Hi All,Charge! The .22uF capacitor lowers the impedance (2KOhms) driving the oscillator but also introduces an additional 90 degrees of phase lag into the regulator control loop before the unity gain crossover point. The 22 ohm series resistor adds a frequency compensation breakpoint to keep the regulator stable. Notice that the operational amplifier feedback time constants (0.0047uF and 110KOhms=308Hz and 2200pF and 220K=329Hz) are pretty close to the output impedance time constants (0.22uF and 2KOhms=362Hz). At high frequencies (0.22uF and 22Ohms=33KHz), the 22 ohm resistor adds phase lead to keep the feedback loop stable. Tektronix probably had problems with overshoot during startup. They did not use high dielectric constant ceramics because their high voltage and temperature coefficients of capacitance and high tolerance would have altered their carefully tailored frequency response too much. C0G type ceramics would have been expensive. I think a film capacitor would have worked but it would have been larger than the tantalum they specified. I suspect the 1 KHz specification refers to a test frequency or guarantied specification at 1 KHz.
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Re: Tek 576 Curve Tracer Repair
George
Greetings,
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I have one of these and would like to know if there suggestions laid out as to how to use this Transistor curve tracer to test vacuum tubes . I looked at several threads but no luck. Also any downloads in files or attachments to give examples or instructions. I am just getting small pieces as to how this idea works? Thank you in advance,George
--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, "c1ferrari" <sonic_liberation@...> wrote:
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Re: 7000 Series Plug-Ins For Sale
Don Black <donald_black@...>
Oh dear, I'd sure be interested in some of them but from Australia
it's too far to swim.
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Don Black.
On 14-Apr-13 9:20 AM, Richard Solomon wrote:
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Re: Any advice on 547 power supply repair?
Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Hi George,
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It is my intention to start making 647 transformers in the same manner as the beeswax impregnated 547 transformers. I am in the process of redesigning my winding machine to make it easier and more reliable to wind all manner of different style transformers. When I get that done, and have the process perfected, I will make an announcement. It might help me to speed up the process if a nice bench top 647A that needs a transformer were to find its way into my stash... kind of like happened with a 547 and 545B..., but regardless, it will happen one of these days. -Chuck Harris G. K. wrote:
Chuck, Would you take on the task of re-winding the high voltage transformer in a
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535 on Boston Craigslist
sipespresso <sipespresso@...>
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Mystery capacitors in 2467B HVPS
vdonisa
Hi All,
I am staring at the schematic of the 2467B HVPS, more specifically to the A9C4363 and A9C4470 capacitors. Tek has specified them as "CAP,FXD,ELCTLT:0.22UF,5%,35V,1KHZ" Vishay Sprague tantalum caps. Unfortunately I cannot find any datasheet for them that would enlighten me on why this particular choice for a tantalum 0.22uF/35V capacitor. This value could had been easily found as ceramic or film. They already have 22 Ohms resistors in series with them so Tek was not relying on their ESR exclusively. So why this particular choice? What is special about these caps? What does the "1KHZ" spec refer to? There must have been a reason, please enlighten me! Thanks, Valentin VE3VDO
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Re: Any advice on 547 power supply repair?
G. K. <glkinst@...>
Chuck, Would you take on the task of re-winding the high voltage transformer in a 647A? I have a near mint condition unit which runs for about 45 min until the transformer gets hot and the fuse in the 2N3055 collector blows. - George
From: Chuck Harris
To: TekScopes@... Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Any advice on 547 power supply repair? That's kind of like asking what can I do to keep the rising
flood water out of my house, other than building a dike, putting in sand bags, or moving the house... Pray? The problem is the secondary gets lossy, which makes the transformer run very hot... so hot that it will melt the polyethylene filament windings, if they touch the center EHT winding. When the core gets hot, it gets very lossy, and the inductance of the primary and secondary coils drops, which causes the HV to drop, which causes the HV regulator to push the oscillator tube's screen grid to maximum voltage. A little hotter, and the oscillator just quits. Usually you can count on replacing the oscillator tube and its plate resistor... if your 547 doesn't have the screen voltage limiter modification. Replacing the 5642's with silicon diodes will eliminate about 5W of heat from inside of the plastic HV compartment, and will usually allow the transformer to last a little longer. Because of the lower current draw from the EHT, you will have to adjust the screen resistor to lower the gain of the hv regulator. I have been told that the rectifier replacement only delays the inevitable replacement of the EHT. I have been told that the late Jim Williams was of the belief that if a transformer could be dried out before it was run in the lossy state, it could sometimes be saved. He championed the idea of putting a 100W light bulb inside of a new (to him) scope, and putting a blanket over it and allowing it to cook for a couple of days to a couple of weeks. That said, Jim Williams bought dozens of replacement transformers from an early 547 rewinding pioneer, Bill Schell. I gave up trying to "fix" the transformers and spent my limited time and energy on learning how to rewind them. Unlike the legendary 547 transformer winder Bill Schell, I made sure that my windings were fully compatible with the original... no need to replace the 5642's, or adjust the screen resistor to use my transformers. There are pictures in the pictures section of this group. Send me any old tektronix EHT with that style core, and $100 US, and I will send you a rewound transformer anywhere in the world. There are plenty of folks on this group that can tell you of their experiences with transformer replacement. -Chuck Harris
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Re: Stacked 7000s
Dave,
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The wattage ratings on the mainframes may give you a clue. Also, the mix of plugins among mainframes may make a difference. If any plugin slots are empty, that could affect airflow unless the slot has a blank panel in it. HankC, Boston, WA1HOS
--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:
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7904 for sale
Dave Daniel
All,
I have a 7904 that I would like to sell. I'll probably include two 7B53A timebases. I'll have to see which of the pile of 7B53As I have that are working; I need to keep two good ones. If I have four good ones, I'll include two with the 'scope. Otherwise, it'll be none, or non-working timebases (buyers choice). No vertical amplifiers. Shipping within the continental US only (also UK but I think it would be prohibitively expensive to ship). Packaging would be well-done, but would add to the cost. The instrument was working when I last had it on the bench (it was my main 'scope between about 1997and 2012), but has not been calibrated lately. I will verify basic operation if someone is interested just in case it got annoyed with me after having been replaced by my other 7xxx 'scopes. I do know that the light behind the LEFT vertical mode switch does not work (anyone realize that a typo in this last results in "doe snot" ? Ewwwwww). The 'scope has no options. If you are interested, please make an offer. Buyer will have to pay for shipping. I don't want a lot for it; I'd be satisfied just to cover the cost of one of my other recently-purchased 7xxxx 'scopes, which were less than almost all that have been listed on eBay for the past year or so. I'm basically trying to give it a good home while making some space and covering some of the cost of my Tek 'scope addiction. I bought this 'scope from a guy in Denver. it was calibrated when I bought it, and the guy actually decided to drive it up to Longmont, CO rather than ship it so it would not get damaged. I was impressed with his desire to deliver a quality used 'scope. If anyone is interested in buying it, I can post photographs. Cheers, DaveD
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Re: Stacked 7000s
Dave Daniel
Also, can anyone tell me in what order one would rate the power dissipation of these 'scopes (e.g., which ones get hotter than the others)?. My 7904A and 7854 don't get very hot. The 7104 and 7934 have failed power supplies, so I don't know if they run noticeably hotter. The four 'scopes I am speaking of are
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7104 7904A 7934 7854 Cheers, DaveD
On 4/13/2013 6:39 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Has anyone had any problems running 7xxxx 'scopes stacked two high? I am thinking of stacking my 7104, 7904A, 7934 and 7854 in a 2 x 2 pile. I'm not sure if I would need two 'scopes running concurrently. The fans, where they exist, move air horizontally. Perhaps the bigger problem would be that one shouldn't have them side-by side?
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Stacked 7000s
Dave Daniel
Has anyone had any problems running 7xxxx 'scopes stacked two high? I am thinking of stacking my 7104, 7904A, 7934 and 7854 in a 2 x 2 pile. I'm not sure if I would need two 'scopes running concurrently. The fans, where they exist, move air horizontally. Perhaps the bigger problem would be that one shouldn't have them side-by side?
Cheers, DaveD
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Single wide 7K plugin Frames Wanted
Hi,
I need 7K plugins frames parts. top and bottom rails, Side panels, ALL latch parts, rear plastic bracket. I do not need knobs,pots,switches,pwbs. No double wides. Please contact me of-list. Am willing to trade Jerry Massengale
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Re: Planning 2467B LVPS re-cap
vdonisa
Hi David,
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Agreed on both points. There is an "optimal" point up to which you can increase voltage and improve on all parameters, and going past that you get worse ripple current rating so you know where to stop. Also there are physical limitations on the case size, it has to fit on the PCB, and also you should have lead spacing <= hole spacing (I don't find it acceptable to bend the terminals inwards). As for the 10u/100V vs 10u/160V example you mentioned, here were the candidates: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/photos/album/1314606778/pic/405367259/view Since the schematic calls for 3 x 10u/100V and 1 x 10u/160V, and taking into account the characteristics shown in the photo, and that we're trying to maximize on ripple current and endurance spec, and we don't need to go past 105 Celsius spec, it made sense to use the Nichicon CA for all 4 caps of 10uF. As for your second point, I am definitely aware of that, and particularly the Panasonic EEU-FR comes in two variants, with or without an "L" postfix in the part number, the "L" indicates a taller slimmer case, with different ripple / endurance specs, I have used both variants in my list depending on all specs including lead spacing. Rest assured that the list was carefully researched and a good starting point for a re-cap project, improving on it will take many hours of datasheet reading :-) and/or access to some capacitors that are not usually stocked by mouser/digikey/newark. Thanks again gentlemen for all your help, Valentin VE3VDO
--- In TekScopes@..., David wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:54:52 -0000, "vdonisa" vdonisa@... > wrote: > > >A few notes: > > > >- some capacitors (100, 180 and 270u - the ones that are the most stressed) may look ridiculously oversized in voltage; it was deliberate and had nothing with the voltage itself but with the case size instead; a modern 100uF/25V is pretty tiny and won't dissipate heat very well - this is generally also reflected in its ripple current and endurance ratings; I went for some larger capacitor cases in order to improve on these specs; > > I do the same thing for the same reason although if you check the > manufacturer's specifications, higher voltage does not always yield a > higher ripple current rating. There is often a significant rise in > ESR and sometimes lowering of ripple current rating going from 100 > volts to 160 volts because the electrolyte is changed. > > Sometimes you can find the same capacitance and voltage rating in two > different case sizes with one having a much higher ripple current > rating. >
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Re: 7912AD
Dave Daniel
On the other hand, here is what might be either a working but dented 'scope, or a reasonably priced parts mule. eBay #310650437070.
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DaveD
--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <ditter2@...> wrote:
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Re: Any advice on 547 power supply repair?
Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
That's kind of like asking what can I do to keep the rising
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
flood water out of my house, other than building a dike, putting in sand bags, or moving the house... Pray? The problem is the secondary gets lossy, which makes the transformer run very hot... so hot that it will melt the polyethylene filament windings, if they touch the center EHT winding. When the core gets hot, it gets very lossy, and the inductance of the primary and secondary coils drops, which causes the HV to drop, which causes the HV regulator to push the oscillator tube's screen grid to maximum voltage. A little hotter, and the oscillator just quits. Usually you can count on replacing the oscillator tube and its plate resistor... if your 547 doesn't have the screen voltage limiter modification. Replacing the 5642's with silicon diodes will eliminate about 5W of heat from inside of the plastic HV compartment, and will usually allow the transformer to last a little longer. Because of the lower current draw from the EHT, you will have to adjust the screen resistor to lower the gain of the hv regulator. I have been told that the rectifier replacement only delays the inevitable replacement of the EHT. I have been told that the late Jim Williams was of the belief that if a transformer could be dried out before it was run in the lossy state, it could sometimes be saved. He championed the idea of putting a 100W light bulb inside of a new (to him) scope, and putting a blanket over it and allowing it to cook for a couple of days to a couple of weeks. That said, Jim Williams bought dozens of replacement transformers from an early 547 rewinding pioneer, Bill Schell. I gave up trying to "fix" the transformers and spent my limited time and energy on learning how to rewind them. Unlike the legendary 547 transformer winder Bill Schell, I made sure that my windings were fully compatible with the original... no need to replace the 5642's, or adjust the screen resistor to use my transformers. There are pictures in the pictures section of this group. Send me any old tektronix EHT with that style core, and $100 US, and I will send you a rewound transformer anywhere in the world. There are plenty of folks on this group that can tell you of their experiences with transformer replacement. -Chuck Harris Bene's Mails wrote:
What can I actually do to increase the HV output apart from replacing the
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7000 Series Plug-Ins For Sale
Richard Solomon <dickw1ksz@...>
I have the following Plug-Ins that are excess to my needs: 7A117A13 7A15 7A22 (2)7B50 (2)
7B51
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Re: Why X1 probes have low bandwidth
The period is not important except that it needs to be long enough to
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show lower frequency effects. It does not need to be any faster than the oscilloscope sweep rate which is limited by the trigger hold-off time. 50kHz is usually good but you can raise it if it makes the display brighter. The PG502 is a little marginal for this kind of test because it does not have aberrations much lower than the SC504. The fast rise and fall outputs of a PG506 would be idea. A calibrated tunnel diode or avalanche pulse generator would work also.
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 16:54:56 -0400, Ray <w4byg@att.net> wrote:
David,
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