Date   

Re: 465M Flaky vertical height.

Miroslav Pokorni <mpokorni@...>
 

I find Don's story fascinating.

To start with, until very recently I thought that 465M is a 465, in a funny
housing, but still 465. I never new that 465M traces lineage to T900. I
believe that T900 were products acquired when Tektronix bought (British ?)
Tecelec; anyone, please, correct me if I am wrong on Tektronix/Tecelec
transaction. I have seen same housing and controls with both, Tecelec and
Tektronix names on it. I never new that T900 were built in Beavertron, I
thought that all of them came out of UK plant.

With my newly acquired insight into 465M, I find story told to me by local
former Tektronix sale guy a bit funny (local: Orange County, Ca, former:
circa 1982). Sales guy complained how Air Force bought scopes from Kikutsi,
because of low price, while Kikutsi could not deliver a scope to meet
performance specification. I wander how much of performance would have been
met by 465M.


Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

-----Original Message-----
From: donlcramer@cs.com [mailto:donlcramer@cs.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 2:49 PM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 465M Flaky vertical
height.

Fascinating!

BTW, what was the reason for creating the 465M for the
government vs selling
the 465? Was it a cost issue? Or some special features?
Was the 455 an
outgrowth of the 465M or was it the other way around?

I worked in Digital Service Instruments as a production tech
in the late 70s,
which was a new group in Portables which began with the 851
Digital Tester.
This was a product designed originally for Burroughs for
their first line
techs as a scope replacement. The instrument was
principally a clever
integration of DMM and counter/timer functions and the idea
was that a tech
could follow a diagnostic tree and compare readings to
arrive at the fault,
without the need to be familiar with how a scope worked.
Anyway, we were
next to the T900 line and if DSI production was a bit slow,
I would get to
work on T900 product. While not as nice as the "real"
portables, the top
line T935 wasn't a bad instrument (2x35MHz) as far as
functionality was
concerned.

About once a month our group got to either take a tour of
another area, or
had a guest in, as was common practice back then in order to
get more
familiar with other parts of Tek. One time it was the the
marketing product
manager for T900. As you know, the T900 line styling was a
little odd, and
was derided for looking like an old Kerby cannister vacuum
cleaner instead of
like a traditional portable scope. The gentleman, whose
name I've long since
forgotten, was quite a character. He told us he wanted to
do an ad with a
photo of a field service tech holding a T900 in one hand and
a vacuum cleaner
hose in the other hand with the line "Tektronix is Going to
Clean Up in the
Low Cost Scope Business". But the idea was shot down. We
had quite a laugh
over that, and he was an inspiration for the T900 team who
felt somewhat
second rate compared to the groups working on the more
expensive portables
and lab scopes. My recollection is that were a great bunch
of people
regardless of what they worked on.

Don







------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: CONTACT CLEANER

Miroslav Pokorni <mpokorni@...>
 

On the subject of cleaning labels, I found success with ski wax cleaner for
cross country skies. I use 'Swix', which is a Scandinavian brand; if anyone
used ski wax 'clister' (or however you spell the name for that gooey stuff)
you would understand the effectiveness of the cleaner. As a first step I
would clean up with alcohol, to remove stuff that cleans easy. Then I would
dub some Swix on the label and let it seat for a while; non-permeable
labels, like metal or polyester have to be peeled off first and work is on
the glue residue. My preferred pads for cleaning are Kimwipes, a lint free
industrial wipes; they hold together quite well, too. After an hour or so of
socking, I would use the same pad that was used for dubbing, to clean off
glue; socking for an extended time period is feasible because wax cleaner is
quite thick, consistency of a jelly. When there is a lot of glue residue or
it became quite tough over time, only a part of glue would come off. Then
repeated application is called for; I never had to go beyond three
applications.

All painted or etched metal surfaces stand the cleaner without exception, as
well as most plastics. The only thing that I would have doubt about is
transparent plastic. I tried it on a piece of what I believe was acrylic and
surface did get cloudy.

It is very important to clean with alcohol the whole area where wax remover
was applied. The stuff stinks pretty badly and if you do not clean with
alcohol stink will stay with you for long time. The whole operation is best
carried outdoors, with usual fire precautions, too; that is a petroleum
product. All used wipes should be discarded to outdoor garbage can;
possibly, you can use a thicker plastic bag to wrap all used material, but
bare in mind that odors quite easily escape.


Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

-----Original Message-----
From: jstanton@viacognis.com
[mailto:jstanton@viacognis.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 10:05 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TekScopes] CONTACT CLEANER

For many years we used a contact cleaner "Cramolin Red"
which used to be distributed by Caig. I went searching for new supplies and
discovered that Cramolin is actually German and that Caig's Deoxit is
actually their knock-off of Cramolin and is probably just as effective.

We achieved miracles with Cramolin. Temperamental equipment
that was plagued with intermittent faults became totally reliable after it
was disassembled and all connectors and contacts treated with the Cramolin
Red. More recently I have been able to resurrect some Tek plugins and
frames that had been stored in a hostile environment by first cleaning
switch and other contacts with isopropyl alcohol to rinse away water and
alcohol contaminants and then applying Cramolin to attack the oxides and
leave a protective, conductive lubricant. This process failed on equipment
that had clearly been underwater so dont expect the impossible.

I notice that Cramolin is still in business. I just ordered
Caig's sample kit and shall compare it to my Cramolin Red dregs and report
the result.

On the subject of cleaning used Tek equipment my biggest
problem has been with labels. I find the following method works:
1. Heat the label and attempt to peel it off.
2. Use "Goo Gone" lemon oil solvent to attempt
to dislodge it. This is a mild solvent that seems to be kind to plastics.
3. Add some WD40 if it is stubborn. This is a
stronger solvent so take more care with it.
4. Aged label adhesive sometimes still resists
and then I carefully use some nail polish remover if there is metal or
anodizing underneath, using a moistened pad like an art restorer.
5. On a painted or plastic surface where acetone
cannot be used remnants can be removed with a scraper using a similar
technique one might use to scrape a bearing or a lathe bed (i.e. no
gouging).
6. Finally clean with a pure water and "Red
Juice" solution. Red Juice is an industrial cleaner that we use and source
from "The Clean Team" in San Francisco. It is a detergent without other
additives and leaves no residue, no pine smell, just clean. They also make
"Blue Juice" which is great for cleaning glass.

My first exposure to Tek scopes was 30 years ago when I
carried a 453 to repair mainframe computers (you remember the ones that had
thousands of boards and connectors). At that time we knew nothing about
contact cleaners and spent endless hours tracing down faults on boards only
to find they worked when reseated. Because we used no contact cleaner we
would be doing it all over again in a few months time. In retrospect I
realize that maybe 90% of our trouble shooting could have been eliminated by
treated connectors and contacts.

By the way has anyone before or since made a scope like the
453 that could be dropped down a flight of stairs, bouncing off each stair
and still work perfectly? Or be in the trunk of a car when the car was
totalled and still work?

It is a credit to the quality of the materials traditionally
used by Tek that a little TLC can bring even very poorly cared for equipment
back to near-new appearance and function.

Regards

John Stanton


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: Hello-Tek Scopes, Manuals, and Parts

Jim Reese
 

Hi Andrea,

The switch you are looking for could be obtained from
almost any 2 or 3 series dual trace plugin such as a
3A1 or 3A6. That ground/AC/DC switch is the same in
all of the units except for some are douple pole and
some are single pole. The 3A72 only nees a single
pole so either switch would work.

Jim

--- Andrea Bovo <ivbov@libero.it> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: <nfeinc@yahoo.com>
To: <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:46 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Hello-Tek Scopes, Manuals, and
Parts


Hello, I am Jim Reese from Ohio. ...
... We have a large selection of scopes,
plug-ins, manuals, and parts for Tek tube type
scopes and later
models. ...
... Let me know of anything you are looking for
via this
forum or contact me directly. I just found this
forum and will add
what I can to the knowledge base and discussions.
Jim Reese
Hello, Jim
some time ago I saved a Tek 564 storage scope from
an inglorious end, as
it was destined (from a school laboratory, where it
had not been used so
much) to the waste-basket.
As a matter of fact, the scope is physically in very
good order.
On it are mounted a 2B67 time-base unit and a 2A72
amplifier unit.
To restore its cosmetical original status, I need
one of the two
three-position slide switches that are on the front
of the 2A72 unit ,
and a new translucent screen with the fluorescent
reticular frame, which
I incautiously damaged while cleaning the scope,
after its salvation.
Moreover, the scope works, but it's definitely
uncalibrated.
So, I'd like to know if you can directly be, or if
you can indicate to
me, the source from where I can obtain the missing
items I listed, and
an operation and service manual (to be instructed
about calibration).
Thanks in advance. I apologize for my unprobable
English.
Greetings. Andrea Bovo.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


FAA story

Windsor <mongteen@...>
 

Hello,

Great story about FAA/gov't mindset. Reminds me of the story I heard about
a company upgrading their servers and the sales guy recommended using linux
and saving a big bundle of cash and improve reliability. But the company
decided to go with a Microsoft solution because the linux system was saved
them too much money. Something to do with a tax deduction.

Windsor Chan





_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite Canada
Visit http://mail.excite.ca


Re: 465M Flaky vertical height.

Peter Florance
 

Thanks Stan
I'll give that a try.
I always like to ID the problem to insure I fixed it, but in this case it's probably too intermittant to hope for that.

Peter Florance CET/CSM
Audio Services
544 Central Drive
Suite 101
Virginia Beach, VA 23454
757.498.8277
757.498.9554 Fax
email: mailto:audserv@exis.net
http://www.audio-services.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Stan or Patricia Griffiths [SMTP:w7ni@easystreet.com]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:54 PM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 465M Flaky vertical height.

Hi Peter,

I have fixed quite a few 455's with intermittants and the 465M is very similar
in construction. I have found both of the mother board connectors that the
vertical and horizontal modules plug into to be intermittant. I would remove
both modules, clean the board contact area with something like alcohol, and then
apply a light coating of De-Oxit on the board contact area.

Stan
w7ni@easystreet.com

Peter Florance wrote:

This one has bothered me for a while. Sometimes the height will be about 50%
of normal on either channel. Very intermittent. If I put the unit in chop
and run the other channels position to very high or low on the screen, the
offending channel will 'pop' back to correct size. At one point I could tap
around the funny heatsinked hybrid in the vertical section and get it to
fail. Removed IC and cleaned the contacts with Qtip and Deoxit and it worked
for a while but then came back. Has classic symptoms of bad connection but I
can't seem to get it to fail often enough yet. Any shortcuts?
Note this scope appears to be quite different from 465 regular-flavor (at
least vert section).
Thanks

Peter Florance


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: 465M Flaky vertical height.

Peter Florance
 

I noticed the 465M is quite different from 465.
Is the 465 a better scope?

Thanks for all the help
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: dhuster@pb.k12.mo.us [mailto:dhuster@pb.k12.mo.us]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 8:22 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 465M Flaky vertical height.


Peter, I agree with Stan about the intermittent tendancies of the
vertical and horizontal module connectors. The FAA bought the 465M
in droves, and since their main depot is in Oklahoma City, I got to
see most of the warranty work. The 455 and 465M are
really "upgraded" T900-series and weren't the best contribution to
the Tek product line. If you don't have the scope in its case, the
traces will be pretty noisy, so don't try troubleshooting THAT
little "problem".

As a side note regarding the FAA, the government makes for odd
equipment. The FAA used/uses a modified 535/545 scope for aligning
their VOR/TACAN system sites (those funny little low white buildings
you see around the country with the big bowling pin in the center).
The modified scope (and this was a special Tek production mod) had a
hole in the side of the scope cover with clear plastic cover ofer the
hole so that a slide switch could select normal scope operation or
direct access to the vertical deflection plates. They needed the mod
so that they could bypass the vertical amplifier and view the high
frequency of the TACAN. Of course, the 500-series was obsolete and
the FAA was getting tired of spending $1000+ per instrument for
refurbishment through Tek to keep the old girls going.

Well, of course, since the 545, scope bandwidths have improved a lot,
and the late Harold Drain, the OKC sales rep, and I went out to one
of the FAA's sites to demonstrate how an inexpensive, modern Tek
scope could easily and simply be used for this procedure without
having to mess with the cost of a special modification. A new scope
was going to cost them less than their typical 545 refurbishment.
They were delighted and and Harold and I figured that he was going to
be into bonus money with all the sales of new high-bandwidth scopes
this was going to generate.

Ha! We forgot that we were dealing with the U.S. Government.
Instead, they ordered a whole slew of 2213's with the identical
direct deflection plate access production modification that the old
500-series had. Seems that they figured that it was better to do
that than it was to modernize and rewrite the adjustment procedure
and retrain the old dogs that maintained the systems. So if any of
you out there ever get hold of a 2200-series scope on the surplus
market with a Plexiglas-covered hole in the left side of the case,
that's the history of the abortion setting in front of you.

Dean




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: CONTACT CLEANER - note Cramolin Red is 'Tweek' (!)

Peter Florance
 

John and all
I know the Deoxit is not conductive like Tweek seems to be but is more than
a straight solvent or lube.
We buy both the spray and the 100% liquid in the bottle (like a flux
bottle).
Sometimes the killer fix for pesky assign switches on mixing consoles) is to
dispense a little 100% (kind of thick), then 'chase' it with a little 5%
spray which carries it deep into the switch. You can see the results
watching distortion components THD from analyzer on a scope. Instantly gets
quiet. One time a local supplier sent us off brand Deoxid (instead of the
Caig Deoxit) and it just didn't work.
100% is also great for scope switches. Years ago I bought a batch of
Military Dumont scopes and it worked wonders on the switches. Even the nasty
cal and balance pots. Only caution is pots with HV in them like some focus
pots. Seems to make them a little cranky (low dielectric strength?).
Deoxit got a real bad reputation when music stores started selling it and
every DIY musician flooded his gear with it. Slimy mess.
I have a 20 yr old BMW and the Caig calube with copper particles it a
godsend for crappy German grounds (some painted from the factory).
Technician-in-a-can, we call it.

Funny about the red juice and blue juice. I read the speed cleaning book
years ago when they used that as generic name for off the shelf cleaning
aids. Apparently the book didn't stick with me, looking around the room
right now...

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: John Miles [mailto:jmiles@pop.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 7:26 PM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: CONTACT CLEANER - note Cramolin Red is
'Tweek' (!)


Actually "Tweek" is an entirely different (and vastly more expensive)
substance, which is OEM'ed under the name "Stabilant 22."
(http://www.stabilant.com/)

Tweek/Stabilant is billed as a contact enhancer -- not merely a lubricant,
surfactant, or cleaner like DeOxit/Cramolin/WD40/whatever, but rather an
actual aid to conductivity. Supposedly, the idea is that
Stabilant behaves
as a good conductor across extremely small metal gaps -- on the order of
thousandths of an inch -- while acting as an insulator across
larger spaces.
This is what the guys on the Ferrari list say, anyway.... some of
them have
been using it on the badly-engineered fuse panels in the older cars with
good results. I haven't tried it myself, because the price ($20-$50 for a
couple of milliliters) and marketing claims make it sound like 99 44/100%
pure snake oil.

Now, I have taken Tek 7000 plugins apart and noticed a somewhat
gooey, clear
substance in the transistor socket pins that matches the look and feel of
Stabilant 22. Don't know if it was applied at the factory (which would
certainly lend a lot of credence to the snake-oilish claims above) or by a
third-party service person. Anyone have any knowledge of this stuff...
preferably accompanied by a few numbers? Ever heard of Tek using anything
like this on the production line?

-- jm

----- Original Message -----
From: <ashtonb@jps.net>
To: <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 3:05 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: CONTACT CLEANER - note Cramolin Red is
'Tweek' (!)


That is: the active ingredient is same - made by Wright (audio type
and inventor? discoverer? of the phenom) in Canada. Tweek was first
and invented that T. They fought, and Caig was enlisted to catch
up in 'marketing'. Anyway it is the surfactant which produces the
long-lasting 'miracle intermittent' cures - whatever the label logo
or the diluent decided on. Sometimes brush applicator beats spray -
matter of choice.

FWIW.

Ashton

--- In TekScopes@y..., jstanton@v... wrote:
For many years we used a contact cleaner "Cramolin Red" which used
to be distributed by Caig. I went searching for new supplies and
discovered that Cramolin is actually German and that Caig's Deoxit is
actually their knock-off of Cramolin and is probably just as
effective.

We achieved miracles with Cramolin. Temperamental equipment that
was plagued with intermittent faults became totally reliable after it
was disassembled and all connectors and contacts treated with the
Cramolin Red. More recently I have been able to resurrect some Tek
plugins and frames that had been stored in a hostile environment by
first cleaning switch and other contacts with isopropyl alcohol to
rinse away water and alcohol contaminants and then applying Cramolin
to attack the oxides and leave a protective, conductive lubricant.
This process failed on equipment that had clearly been underwater so
dont expect the impossible.

I notice that Cramolin is still in business. I just ordered Caig's
sample kit and shall compare it to my Cramolin Red dregs and report
the result.

On the subject of cleaning used Tek equipment my biggest problem
has
been with labels. I find the following method works:
1. Heat the label and attempt to peel it off.
2. Use "Goo Gone" lemon oil solvent to attempt to
dislodge it. This is a mild solvent that seems to be kind to
plastics.
3. Add some WD40 if it is stubborn. This is a stronger
solvent so take more care with it.
4. Aged label adhesive sometimes still resists and then
I carefully use some nail polish remover if there is metal or
anodizing underneath, using a moistened pad like an art restorer.
5. On a painted or plastic surface where acetone cannot
be used remnants can be removed with a scraper using a similar
technique one might use to scrape a bearing or a lathe bed (i.e. no
gouging).
6. Finally clean with a pure water and "Red Juice"
solution. Red Juice is an industrial cleaner that we use and source
from "The Clean Team" in San Francisco. It is a detergent without
other additives and leaves no residue, no pine smell, just clean.
They also make "Blue Juice" which is great for cleaning glass.





To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: CONTACT CLEANER - note Cramolin Red is 'Tweek' (!)

John Miles <jmiles@...>
 

Actually "Tweek" is an entirely different (and vastly more expensive)
substance, which is OEM'ed under the name "Stabilant 22."
(http://www.stabilant.com/)

Tweek/Stabilant is billed as a contact enhancer -- not merely a lubricant,
surfactant, or cleaner like DeOxit/Cramolin/WD40/whatever, but rather an
actual aid to conductivity. Supposedly, the idea is that Stabilant behaves
as a good conductor across extremely small metal gaps -- on the order of
thousandths of an inch -- while acting as an insulator across larger spaces.
This is what the guys on the Ferrari list say, anyway.... some of them have
been using it on the badly-engineered fuse panels in the older cars with
good results. I haven't tried it myself, because the price ($20-$50 for a
couple of milliliters) and marketing claims make it sound like 99 44/100%
pure snake oil.

Now, I have taken Tek 7000 plugins apart and noticed a somewhat gooey, clear
substance in the transistor socket pins that matches the look and feel of
Stabilant 22. Don't know if it was applied at the factory (which would
certainly lend a lot of credence to the snake-oilish claims above) or by a
third-party service person. Anyone have any knowledge of this stuff...
preferably accompanied by a few numbers? Ever heard of Tek using anything
like this on the production line?

-- jm

----- Original Message -----
From: <ashtonb@jps.net>
To: <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 3:05 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: CONTACT CLEANER - note Cramolin Red is 'Tweek' (!)


That is: the active ingredient is same - made by Wright (audio type
and inventor? discoverer? of the phenom) in Canada. Tweek was first
and invented that T. They fought, and Caig was enlisted to catch
up in 'marketing'. Anyway it is the surfactant which produces the
long-lasting 'miracle intermittent' cures - whatever the label logo
or the diluent decided on. Sometimes brush applicator beats spray -
matter of choice.

FWIW.

Ashton

--- In TekScopes@y..., jstanton@v... wrote:
For many years we used a contact cleaner "Cramolin Red" which used
to be distributed by Caig. I went searching for new supplies and
discovered that Cramolin is actually German and that Caig's Deoxit is
actually their knock-off of Cramolin and is probably just as
effective.

We achieved miracles with Cramolin. Temperamental equipment that
was plagued with intermittent faults became totally reliable after it
was disassembled and all connectors and contacts treated with the
Cramolin Red. More recently I have been able to resurrect some Tek
plugins and frames that had been stored in a hostile environment by
first cleaning switch and other contacts with isopropyl alcohol to
rinse away water and alcohol contaminants and then applying Cramolin
to attack the oxides and leave a protective, conductive lubricant.
This process failed on equipment that had clearly been underwater so
dont expect the impossible.

I notice that Cramolin is still in business. I just ordered Caig's
sample kit and shall compare it to my Cramolin Red dregs and report
the result.

On the subject of cleaning used Tek equipment my biggest problem
has
been with labels. I find the following method works:
1. Heat the label and attempt to peel it off.
2. Use "Goo Gone" lemon oil solvent to attempt to
dislodge it. This is a mild solvent that seems to be kind to
plastics.
3. Add some WD40 if it is stubborn. This is a stronger
solvent so take more care with it.
4. Aged label adhesive sometimes still resists and then
I carefully use some nail polish remover if there is metal or
anodizing underneath, using a moistened pad like an art restorer.
5. On a painted or plastic surface where acetone cannot
be used remnants can be removed with a scraper using a similar
technique one might use to scrape a bearing or a lathe bed (i.e. no
gouging).
6. Finally clean with a pure water and "Red Juice"
solution. Red Juice is an industrial cleaner that we use and source
from "The Clean Team" in San Francisco. It is a detergent without
other additives and leaves no residue, no pine smell, just clean.
They also make "Blue Juice" which is great for cleaning glass.





To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: CONTACT CLEANER - note Cramolin Red is 'Tweek' (!)

ashtonb@...
 

That is: the active ingredient is same - made by Wright (audio type
and inventor? discoverer? of the phenom) in Canada. Tweek was first
and invented that ™. They fought, and Caig was enlisted to catch
up in 'marketing'. Anyway it is the surfactant which produces the
long-lasting 'miracle intermittent' cures - whatever the label logo
or the diluent decided on. Sometimes brush applicator beats spray -
matter of choice.

FWIW.

Ashton

--- In TekScopes@y..., jstanton@v... wrote:
For many years we used a contact cleaner "Cramolin Red" which used
to be distributed by Caig. I went searching for new supplies and
discovered that Cramolin is actually German and that Caig's Deoxit is
actually their knock-off of Cramolin and is probably just as
effective.

We achieved miracles with Cramolin. Temperamental equipment that
was plagued with intermittent faults became totally reliable after it
was disassembled and all connectors and contacts treated with the
Cramolin Red. More recently I have been able to resurrect some Tek
plugins and frames that had been stored in a hostile environment by
first cleaning switch and other contacts with isopropyl alcohol to
rinse away water and alcohol contaminants and then applying Cramolin
to attack the oxides and leave a protective, conductive lubricant.
This process failed on equipment that had clearly been underwater so
dont expect the impossible.

I notice that Cramolin is still in business. I just ordered Caig's
sample kit and shall compare it to my Cramolin Red dregs and report
the result.

On the subject of cleaning used Tek equipment my biggest problem
has
been with labels. I find the following method works:
1. Heat the label and attempt to peel it off.
2. Use "Goo Gone" lemon oil solvent to attempt to
dislodge it. This is a mild solvent that seems to be kind to
plastics.
3. Add some WD40 if it is stubborn. This is a stronger
solvent so take more care with it.
4. Aged label adhesive sometimes still resists and then
I carefully use some nail polish remover if there is metal or
anodizing underneath, using a moistened pad like an art restorer.
5. On a painted or plastic surface where acetone cannot
be used remnants can be removed with a scraper using a similar
technique one might use to scrape a bearing or a lathe bed (i.e. no
gouging).
6. Finally clean with a pure water and "Red Juice"
solution. Red Juice is an industrial cleaner that we use and source
from "The Clean Team" in San Francisco. It is a detergent without
other additives and leaves no residue, no pine smell, just clean.
They also make "Blue Juice" which is great for cleaning glass.



Re: 465M Flaky vertical height.

donlcramer@...
 

Fascinating!

BTW, what was the reason for creating the 465M for the government vs selling
the 465? Was it a cost issue? Or some special features? Was the 455 an
outgrowth of the 465M or was it the other way around?

I worked in Digital Service Instruments as a production tech in the late 70s,
which was a new group in Portables which began with the 851 Digital Tester.
This was a product designed originally for Burroughs for their first line
techs as a scope replacement. The instrument was principally a clever
integration of DMM and counter/timer functions and the idea was that a tech
could follow a diagnostic tree and compare readings to arrive at the fault,
without the need to be familiar with how a scope worked. Anyway, we were
next to the T900 line and if DSI production was a bit slow, I would get to
work on T900 product. While not as nice as the "real" portables, the top
line T935 wasn't a bad instrument (2x35MHz) as far as functionality was
concerned.

About once a month our group got to either take a tour of another area, or
had a guest in, as was common practice back then in order to get more
familiar with other parts of Tek. One time it was the the marketing product
manager for T900. As you know, the T900 line styling was a little odd, and
was derided for looking like an old Kerby cannister vacuum cleaner instead of
like a traditional portable scope. The gentleman, whose name I've long since
forgotten, was quite a character. He told us he wanted to do an ad with a
photo of a field service tech holding a T900 in one hand and a vacuum cleaner
hose in the other hand with the line "Tektronix is Going to Clean Up in the
Low Cost Scope Business". But the idea was shot down. We had quite a laugh
over that, and he was an inspiration for the T900 team who felt somewhat
second rate compared to the groups working on the more expensive portables
and lab scopes. My recollection is that were a great bunch of people
regardless of what they worked on.

Don


CONTACT CLEANER

jstanton@...
 

For many years we used a contact cleaner "Cramolin Red" which used to be distributed by Caig. I went searching for new supplies and discovered that Cramolin is actually German and that Caig's Deoxit is actually their knock-off of Cramolin and is probably just as effective.

We achieved miracles with Cramolin. Temperamental equipment that was plagued with intermittent faults became totally reliable after it was disassembled and all connectors and contacts treated with the Cramolin Red. More recently I have been able to resurrect some Tek plugins and frames that had been stored in a hostile environment by first cleaning switch and other contacts with isopropyl alcohol to rinse away water and alcohol contaminants and then applying Cramolin to attack the oxides and leave a protective, conductive lubricant. This process failed on equipment that had clearly been underwater so dont expect the impossible.

I notice that Cramolin is still in business. I just ordered Caig's sample kit and shall compare it to my Cramolin Red dregs and report the result.

On the subject of cleaning used Tek equipment my biggest problem has been with labels. I find the following method works:
1. Heat the label and attempt to peel it off.
2. Use "Goo Gone" lemon oil solvent to attempt to dislodge it. This is a mild solvent that seems to be kind to plastics.
3. Add some WD40 if it is stubborn. This is a stronger solvent so take more care with it.
4. Aged label adhesive sometimes still resists and then I carefully use some nail polish remover if there is metal or anodizing underneath, using a moistened pad like an art restorer.
5. On a painted or plastic surface where acetone cannot be used remnants can be removed with a scraper using a similar technique one might use to scrape a bearing or a lathe bed (i.e. no gouging).
6. Finally clean with a pure water and "Red Juice" solution. Red Juice is an industrial cleaner that we use and source from "The Clean Team" in San Francisco. It is a detergent without other additives and leaves no residue, no pine smell, just clean. They also make "Blue Juice" which is great for cleaning glass.

My first exposure to Tek scopes was 30 years ago when I carried a 453 to repair mainframe computers (you remember the ones that had thousands of boards and connectors). At that time we knew nothing about contact cleaners and spent endless hours tracing down faults on boards only to find they worked when reseated. Because we used no contact cleaner we would be doing it all over again in a few months time. In retrospect I realize that maybe 90% of our trouble shooting could have been eliminated by treated connectors and contacts.

By the way has anyone before or since made a scope like the 453 that could be dropped down a flight of stairs, bouncing off each stair and still work perfectly? Or be in the trunk of a car when the car was totalled and still work?

It is a credit to the quality of the materials traditionally used by Tek that a little TLC can bring even very poorly cared for equipment back to near-new appearance and function.

Regards

John Stanton


Re: 465M Flaky vertical height.

dhuster@...
 

Peter, I agree with Stan about the intermittent tendancies of the
vertical and horizontal module connectors. The FAA bought the 465M
in droves, and since their main depot is in Oklahoma City, I got to
see most of the warranty work. The 455 and 465M are
really "upgraded" T900-series and weren't the best contribution to
the Tek product line. If you don't have the scope in its case, the
traces will be pretty noisy, so don't try troubleshooting THAT
little "problem".

As a side note regarding the FAA, the government makes for odd
equipment. The FAA used/uses a modified 535/545 scope for aligning
their VOR/TACAN system sites (those funny little low white buildings
you see around the country with the big bowling pin in the center).
The modified scope (and this was a special Tek production mod) had a
hole in the side of the scope cover with clear plastic cover ofer the
hole so that a slide switch could select normal scope operation or
direct access to the vertical deflection plates. They needed the mod
so that they could bypass the vertical amplifier and view the high
frequency of the TACAN. Of course, the 500-series was obsolete and
the FAA was getting tired of spending $1000+ per instrument for
refurbishment through Tek to keep the old girls going.

Well, of course, since the 545, scope bandwidths have improved a lot,
and the late Harold Drain, the OKC sales rep, and I went out to one
of the FAA's sites to demonstrate how an inexpensive, modern Tek
scope could easily and simply be used for this procedure without
having to mess with the cost of a special modification. A new scope
was going to cost them less than their typical 545 refurbishment.
They were delighted and and Harold and I figured that he was going to
be into bonus money with all the sales of new high-bandwidth scopes
this was going to generate.

Ha! We forgot that we were dealing with the U.S. Government.
Instead, they ordered a whole slew of 2213's with the identical
direct deflection plate access production modification that the old
500-series had. Seems that they figured that it was better to do
that than it was to modernize and rewrite the adjustment procedure
and retrain the old dogs that maintained the systems. So if any of
you out there ever get hold of a 2200-series scope on the surplus
market with a Plexiglas-covered hole in the left side of the case,
that's the history of the abortion setting in front of you.

Dean


Re: Tek 465B

dhuster@...
 

Dave, considering what they were, the blue implosion shields were
some of the most expensive mechanical parts you could buy from Tek.
I always kept the ones I replaced on the service bench, but they were
always scratched up and I usually ended up cutting them up and using
them for dividers in my parts cabinets drawers.

As for knobs, the 465B, 465, 475, etc. use similar knobs. Let me
know via e-mail which ones you need and I can probably scrounge up
some. The knobs I have are mostly for fixing you up if you are
missing knobs. If you're looking for cosmetic upgrades, my knobs may
not be much of an upgrade.

Dean


Re: 465M Flaky vertical height. And "Tweek" cont. enhancer.

ashtonb@...
 

--- In TekScopes@y..., Miroslav Pokorni <mpokorni@c...> wrote:
Thank you, Peter. Information on MCL would be handy one day, too.

I went to Caig's web site and they are running a promotional, 6
vials of
products for $10.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni
I have used the Caig products with some success too; handiest where
access is so restricted you can only spray, twist knobs a lot and -
blow out with air. 'Tweek' I have also used since ~ '83. It is a
'surfactant' - has some detergent properties but, it's major feature
is that it is slightly 'oily' and, under pressure - it is a
conductor!
(demonstrated via a daisy-chain of BNC adaptors + a milli-ohm bridge).

In brief, at the high micro- local pressures of a contact, it "fills
in the gaps always present in any surface" with a conductor, yet does
not degrade even hi-ohms substrates. I think.. it's still
distributed by Sumiko, Inc. in Berkeley CA. Small 'nail-polish' type
applicator of the ingredient in v. pure iso-alcohol. (It's very
expensive! pure, and a little does a lot).

Hi-end audio shops have carried this in past, but I've been out of
touch lately. It has SYA many times, especially where a known flaky
connector is on a production board which can't be removed without
consequences (or a replacement connector can't be found). There are
many anecdotes of "miracle cures" for hair-pulling intermittents...

Bon appetit.

Ashton


Re: Correction-Re: Info on 561B wanted

Jim Reese
 

We have had very good luck with the 561B Scopes. The
mainframes are transistorized and don't seem to have
power supply problems like the tube models, especially
the HV. They also have very good traces on the CRT.
Don't let the tubes in the plugins scare you.
E55L/8233's aren't worth much. I have good used ones
(I have a tube tester that tests the duo-decar type
tubes) in abundance and more plugins to get them from.

The scopes are very good for audio type work and
general service. I got about 12 561B's that were like
new in consecutive S/N order about 10 years ago and
the ones left always seem to work when powered up
(except for some dirty switches). I have some of them
left with plenty of plugins available. Also have
manuals.

The 3A6 dual trace vertical plug has the delay line
built in so you can see the leading trigger edge of
the signal. The 3A1 does not.

Sampling plugins will take the bandwidth higher but
the sampling heads usually cost more than the plugins
or scope.

Let me know if you need any info on certain plugins.
Either I have it or can get it out of an old Tucker
catalog. Jim Tucker's catalog had nice listing of
most of the plugins with specs.

Regards

Jim
--- "Steve B." <baldy3823@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In TekScopes@y..., "Steve B." <baldy3823@y...>
wrote:
1: The fastest amp P-I's (3A1 & 3A3) use expensive
and failure-
prone E55L tubes.
That is 3A1 and 3A6 10 mHz D-T amps that use E55L
(3A3 is a D-T
500kHz diff amp w/different dfl driver tube).

Rgds; Steve Bringhurst



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


Correction-Re: Info on 561B wanted

Steve B.
 

--- In TekScopes@y..., "Steve B." <baldy3823@y...> wrote:
1: The fastest amp P-I's (3A1 & 3A3) use expensive and failure-
prone E55L tubes.
That is 3A1 and 3A6 10 mHz D-T amps that use E55L (3A3 is a D-T
500kHz diff amp w/different dfl driver tube).

Rgds; Steve Bringhurst


Re: Info on 561B wanted

Steve B.
 

Hi Collin;

The 561B is a all-solid state 10 mHz mainframe with near identical X-
Y characteristics that takes a wide variety of 2 and 3 series plug-
ins.
It can be used for X-Y display with similar phase comp'ed amp plug-
ins or raster display with two time-bases. It is noteably a very
versatile audio use 'scope with the right P-I's.

Downsides known to me;
1: The fastest amp P-I's (3A1 & 3A3) use expensive and failure-prone
E55L tubes. OTOH, the 63/2A63 diff amps are fine for audio and are
simple units using common cheap tubes. Easy to comp for X-Y.
2: The HV osc xistor is reputed high failure rate, necessitating a
mount mod to replace with a more robust device when it does go.
Otherwise, very stable reliable unit w/ a nice built-in 1kHz
calibrator.

Rgds; Steve Bringhurst

--- In TekScopes@y..., enjamp@y... wrote:
Hi, my name is Collin Ross and I have been a member for about two
months. Since receiving a book by Stan Griffiths last March, I have
been searching for a project scope. Presently, I have been eyeing a
561B on eBay. Because the "B" is not listed in my book I will
appreciate any information or relevant opinions.


Re: Hello-Tek Scopes, Manuals, and Parts

Jim Reese
 

Let me check on the switch for your 2A72 plugin (I
believe it is a 3A72)and a plastic bezel insert. I
have about 20 rackmount 560 series scopes I can get
parts from.

Regards,

Jim

--- Andrea Bovo <ivbov@libero.it> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: <nfeinc@yahoo.com>
To: <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:46 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Hello-Tek Scopes, Manuals, and
Parts


Hello, I am Jim Reese from Ohio. ...
... We have a large selection of scopes,
plug-ins, manuals, and parts for Tek tube type
scopes and later
models. ...
... Let me know of anything you are looking for
via this
forum or contact me directly. I just found this
forum and will add
what I can to the knowledge base and discussions.
Jim Reese
Hello, Jim
some time ago I saved a Tek 564 storage scope from
an inglorious end, as
it was destined (from a school laboratory, where it
had not been used so
much) to the waste-basket.
As a matter of fact, the scope is physically in very
good order.
On it are mounted a 2B67 time-base unit and a 2A72
amplifier unit.
To restore its cosmetical original status, I need
one of the two
three-position slide switches that are on the front
of the 2A72 unit ,
and a new translucent screen with the fluorescent
reticular frame, which
I incautiously damaged while cleaning the scope,
after its salvation.
Moreover, the scope works, but it's definitely
uncalibrated.
So, I'd like to know if you can directly be, or if
you can indicate to
me, the source from where I can obtain the missing
items I listed, and
an operation and service manual (to be instructed
about calibration).
Thanks in advance. I apologize for my unprobable
English.
Greetings. Andrea Bovo.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


Re: Digest Number 161

Jim Reese
 

Hi Paul,

I don't have any 561S scopes or the two plugs
mentioned. I do have some of teh common sampling
plugs such as 3S2 and 3T2. Let me know of any
particular units you are looking for.

Regards,

Jim

--- Paul Edstrom <pauledst@ecenet.com> wrote:
Welcome to the group! (From another newcommer)
I've been lurking for some weeks now. My collection
of Tek has been growing
over the last several years thanks to ebay and
other sources on the Web. Also,
especially to Stan G. and Deane K. for manuals!
I'm mainly interested in the era of Tek stuff
covered by Stans book not
including 51x, 52x, 53x or 54x series. I especially
like to work witk the 56x
scopes and their plugins.

I recently acquired a 561S manual which describes a
25 mHz system including a
3A1S and 3B1S. I'd really like to acquire this
hardware! I also want to learn
more about this system as the catalogs I have don't
mention it.


Paul Edstrom
Stanchfield MN
(50 mi N of Mpls)


Hello, I am Jim Reese from Ohio........

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


Re: Hello-Tek Scopes, Manuals, and Parts

Andrea Bovo <ivbov@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: <nfeinc@yahoo.com>
To: <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:46 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Hello-Tek Scopes, Manuals, and Parts


Hello, I am Jim Reese from Ohio. ...
... We have a large selection of scopes,
plug-ins, manuals, and parts for Tek tube type scopes and later
models. ...
... Let me know of anything you are looking for via this
forum or contact me directly. I just found this forum and will add
what I can to the knowledge base and discussions.
Jim Reese
Hello, Jim
some time ago I saved a Tek 564 storage scope from an inglorious end, as
it was destined (from a school laboratory, where it had not been used so
much) to the waste-basket.
As a matter of fact, the scope is physically in very good order.
On it are mounted a 2B67 time-base unit and a 2A72 amplifier unit.
To restore its cosmetical original status, I need one of the two
three-position slide switches that are on the front of the 2A72 unit ,
and a new translucent screen with the fluorescent reticular frame, which
I incautiously damaged while cleaning the scope, after its salvation.
Moreover, the scope works, but it's definitely uncalibrated.
So, I'd like to know if you can directly be, or if you can indicate to
me, the source from where I can obtain the missing items I listed, and
an operation and service manual (to be instructed about calibration).
Thanks in advance. I apologize for my unprobable English.
Greetings. Andrea Bovo.

179181 - 179200 of 179664