Date   

Re: Techie Garage Sale: Date Correction

Bruce Lane
 

Heh... Practically on top of me. That being the case, I hope you'll
have time to swing by.

Thanks.

On 22-Aug-21 00:06, Randy Newman wrote:
Hi Bruce.
FYI, I am a bit NE of you, south of Renton.




--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)


2236 Focus range.

Dave Peterson
 

Hi All,

I'm running through calibration on a 2236. Everything's going great. But something I noticed is that the focus is at the extreme CCW end of the FOCUS knob/pot.

I'm getting a fairly good trace line. Not as good as my bench 465 (I can just about hide the trace behind a graticule line on that), and not quite as good as my 2236A. But even the 2236A isn't as good as the 465. I can't help but wonder if the focus could be/would be better if the adjustment weren't at the end of its range.

I've gone through the power supply and CRT sections several times making sure voltage levels are staying good, setting a proper grid bias, geometries, and astigmatism. The cathode voltage is within spec at -1933v. It started at -1934v this morning, and the scope's been on all day. So pretty stable. All the other PS values are within mVs from this morning too. When I circled back to the grid bias adjustment this evening it needed a tiny tweak, but hardly anything that suggests a larger problem with the grid circuit.

I got through the vertical section of the calibration today, and all is well. The measured BW is around 130MHz. Even the 2mV/div BW was about 118MHz (spec is 90MHz). The focus is reasonably good - again, I don't know that it would get better with more range on the knob. But I can't help but think that the adjustment range should be closer to center, and that it might be indicative of a problem. Something marginal on its way to failure?

When I look at the schematic nothing really jumps out as me as a likely problem, but the focus circuit appears powered by the HV multiplier output. Could the anode voltage be sagging? How do I check that? I don't mean go buy an HV probe - I've done that. I mean, how do you safely access and measure the anode voltage? It's all sealed up, and I'm not keen on the idea of piercing insulation or jamming sharp things into the anode connector. Do 'yall just unplug it and use a wire or something to measure the socket inside the female side of the connector?

And I haven't seen what it should be. What should the anode voltage be for a 2236? What are it's specs? I have a physical manual, but I'm not completely familiar with it - I don't know where it would tell me what the anode should be, and what its limits are. It's not part of the calibration procedure.

Any help is appreciated. I need to call it a day and get some sleep. Thanks all.
Dave


Re: Techie Garage Sale: Date Correction

Randy Newman
 

Hi Bruce.
FYI, I am a bit NE of you, south of Renton.


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Harvey White
 

It seems to be that the idea is to use the JAMMA female connector, and roll your own male connector.  If not, then get a PC board that is isolated, pin to pin for the number of connectors you need, a JAMMA female connector, and roll your own.  You'll need to know how to make PC boards or how to find the right Gerbers (or premade boards).

On the other hand, check into PC board fabrication prices, and if you can do it, making your own is likely better, once you get the female connector.  Connections between the male PC board and Female connector (you may need another PC board made) can be ribbon connectors.  I used the standard 30 gauge ribbon cable, and doubled the pins.  That was for the 7000 series scopes, and I've seen the same done for TM 500 or TM 5000 series.  The TM series can use/demand higher currents.

Whatever you do, put the slots in for the keys for the connector, label the font/back and TOP/BOTTOM VERY carefully, and DO NOT short any pins on the TM500 or TM5000 "unused" connector pins. They *can* be used on the plugins, and you may not know it.

For the 5000 series scopes, pin to pin ought to work, with the 5400 series scopes *may* needing coax connectors because of the bandwidth.  Haven't done any of them.

For TM500/TM5000 power supplies, do functional testing only because they *are* connected with either #30 or #28 (if doubled) wire and will need heavier wire at higher loads.

PC boards are not that difficult to do, *if* you have the programs and some experience doing PC boards.

If none of the above suits you, then you're in the category of "go find one and buy it, hopefully  not too expensive".

The TM500 series *can* be put on an extender, Dan Meeks did an excellent job making them when they were available.  The 7000 series was available with a different approach.

Harvey

On 8/21/2021 9:20 PM, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
I had used a Jamma extender as bought and didn't notice on the upper pins the A and B pins on a few were tied together.  The plugin I was using with it was using those pins.

If you buy one, look it over real carefully.

Vince.

On 08/21/2021 05:15 PM, Andy Warner wrote:
I should clarify. This can happen if you use the the pcb that plugs into
the mainframe on a TM500,  when you simply use the JAMMA extender as
bought, or when you would use it in a 5000 series scope (as per the OP.)

For the 5000 series scope, I would expect that:

1. The high speed signals would use coax (not present on JAMMA cables), so
you are likely to make a new cable harness.
2. Almost all the pins are used, unlike the TM500, that really leaves the
top pins uncommitted (until someone commits them.)

I was simply warning against buying the kind of JAMMA extenders that shorts
a bunch of pins out, that is all. As others have pointed out, it isn’t
fatal, and can be fixed, but I recommend taking the effort to avoid that
(and the resulting FR4 dust.)


On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 15:24 Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:


On 08/21/2021 09:09 AM, Andy Warner wrote:
Watch out - some of the JAMMA extender cards have single copper pours
spanning multiple connector locations, where the power rails are in the
arcade game use case. For TM500 use, I don’t care, and just make sure
those
align with the upper part of the slot, where the mainframe pins are
uncommitted.
Be careful there.  I did the same thing and one module was using a
couple of those pins and the tops blew off of a few ICs.


Vince.
--
         Michigan VHF Corporation -- nobucks dot net
               K8ZW - http://www.hamradio.fun





--
Andy





Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Vince Vielhaber
 

I had used a Jamma extender as bought and didn't notice on the upper pins the A and B pins on a few were tied together. The plugin I was using with it was using those pins.

If you buy one, look it over real carefully.

Vince.

On 08/21/2021 05:15 PM, Andy Warner wrote:
I should clarify. This can happen if you use the the pcb that plugs into
the mainframe on a TM500, when you simply use the JAMMA extender as
bought, or when you would use it in a 5000 series scope (as per the OP.)

For the 5000 series scope, I would expect that:

1. The high speed signals would use coax (not present on JAMMA cables), so
you are likely to make a new cable harness.
2. Almost all the pins are used, unlike the TM500, that really leaves the
top pins uncommitted (until someone commits them.)

I was simply warning against buying the kind of JAMMA extenders that shorts
a bunch of pins out, that is all. As others have pointed out, it isn’t
fatal, and can be fixed, but I recommend taking the effort to avoid that
(and the resulting FR4 dust.)


On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 15:24 Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:


On 08/21/2021 09:09 AM, Andy Warner wrote:
Watch out - some of the JAMMA extender cards have single copper pours
spanning multiple connector locations, where the power rails are in the
arcade game use case. For TM500 use, I don’t care, and just make sure
those
align with the upper part of the slot, where the mainframe pins are
uncommitted.
Be careful there. I did the same thing and one module was using a
couple of those pins and the tops blew off of a few ICs.


Vince.
--
Michigan VHF Corporation -- nobucks dot net
K8ZW - http://www.hamradio.fun





--
Andy



--
Michigan VHF Corporation -- nobucks dot net
K8ZW - http://www.hamradio.fun


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Jim Ford
 

IIRC, the Molex Mini-Fit series worked OK, but the Micro-Fit did not. Could be the other way around. One series got intermixed with the AMP "equivalent" at a previous employer making industrial equipment (wirebonders), and AMP + AMP = great, AMP + Molex = lousy, and Molex + Molex = lousy. Discovered after many units out in the field (of course!).

I was friends with the local Molex sales engineer years ago, and he got me some free samples of IIRC 50-pin connectors for a Tek Prism series logic analyzer display (to bring us back on-topic). Really cheap stamped metal that folded into a backshell; about as sturdy as a cardboard box! I found the AMP version at Digi-Key for about $5. Much, much more robust and made of cast metal that bolted together nicely. No comparison!

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: 8/21/2021 5:32:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

I agree on molex quality. Not good enough for what I do or want to do. Stopped using them many years ago. Don't remember the ones you were talking about, but a similar idea is had with flat flex cable and locking connectors.

I'm using the usual 0.100 spaced connectors with the .025 pins on my projects. I've got access to them and generally not the 2mm connectors or the cable.

Harvey


On 8/21/2021 3:57 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
Yeah, Harvey, I think I've seen the Molex ones, too. The ones I'm thinking of were right-angle and had a locking tab on top. Once mated, you had to lift the tab to get them unmated (and occasionally it would break off, ruining the connector, unless you didn't need it to lock). Probably not very useful with the TM500(0) series boxes, but I just thought I'd throw ITW Paktron out there.

BTW, I'm not a big fan of Molex. Seen AMP (now TE Connectivity) and other manufacturers have much better quality too many times vs. Molex.

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: 8/21/2021 4:11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

There are some molex connectors with that spacing, and heavier pins and sockets. Far enough back <grin> they used to be used for PC (and apple) power connectors.

finding them may be fun, though.

Harvey


On 8/21/2021 4:58 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
About 20 years ago we used ITW Paktron 0.156 inch spacing connectors for lines that needed to pass more current than we were comfortable passing through those 0.1 inch spacing connectors with the 0.025 inch square pins. Don't know if they are still made. HTH. Jim Ford Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@...> Date: 8/21/21 10:17 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s) For equipment of this vintage, the standard spacing was 0.156. Higher density went to 0.1 inches, and there was a 0.125 in there somewhere.A quick look at mouser shows 44 pin dual readout (not what we need) for 11 dollars or so. All others are not in stock.Amazon seems more reasonable, the JAMMA female connectors look decent enough, but check shipping and check prices for everything.HarveyOn 8/21/2021 10:50 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:> My approach to designing the TM500 proto board was similar to Harvey’s, except I skipped the paper template. I just measured the board from a TM500 plug-in and drew it up in my EDA package. The key slots were just a matter of drawing them into the board outline. I did do multiple measurements of the contact spacing and card edge finger dimensions with calipers before I drew anything on the computer, just to be sure (it did not occur to me to look up the connector and see what the specs were, for some fool reason). Once the board was drawn up I did multiple validation measurements using the EDA package’s measurement tool, to verify contact and key slot spacing against my sample plug-in.>> To layout the contacts I first drew a single contact position, copied and pasted it, and then carefully arranged it for my measured spacing. With a pair of contacts created I then repeated the process with the pair, then the quad, octet, etc, until I had 32 contacts with the correct spacing, then I deleted the unneeded contacts. It would have been smarter to set the package’s grid spacing to the connector’s spec beforehand, but I didn’t think of that (for some fool reason, again).>> When I got the boards from my PCB house (I used JLCPCB) I discovered that they had changed the width of the boards very slightly, adding a fraction of a mm for some reason. The cards were very hard to insert into the backplane, as a result. I used a hand file to take tiny fraction of a mm off either side of the card edge connector fingers and that seemed to do the trick, even though the change was barely visible to the naked eye (you could feel it pretty well with a finger nail, however). This is why I marked the modified boards with check marks, because I’d never be sure I had corrected them otherwise,>> Using the same method to make 5000-series extender would be easy enough. I don’t expect there will be much difficulty finding a card edge slot on Mouser of Digi-Key to fit the plug-ins, but I don’t think I’ve actually looked for those yet.>> — Jeff Dutky>>> >>>
















Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Harvey White
 

I agree on molex quality.  Not good enough for what I do or want to do.  Stopped using them many years ago.  Don't remember the ones you were talking about, but a similar idea is had with flat flex cable and locking connectors.

I'm using the usual 0.100 spaced connectors with the .025 pins on my projects.  I've got access to them and generally not the 2mm connectors or the cable.

Harvey

On 8/21/2021 3:57 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
Yeah, Harvey, I think I've seen the Molex ones, too.  The ones I'm thinking of were right-angle and had a locking tab on top.  Once mated, you had to lift the tab to get them unmated (and occasionally it would break off, ruining the connector, unless you didn't need it to lock).  Probably not very useful with the TM500(0) series boxes, but I just thought I'd throw ITW Paktron out there.

BTW, I'm not a big fan of Molex.  Seen AMP (now TE Connectivity) and other manufacturers have much better quality too many times vs. Molex.

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: 8/21/2021 4:11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

There are some molex connectors with that spacing, and heavier pins and sockets.  Far enough back <grin> they used to be used for PC (and apple) power connectors.

finding them may be fun, though.

Harvey


On 8/21/2021 4:58 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
About 20 years ago we used ITW Paktron 0.156 inch spacing connectors for lines that needed to pass more current than we were comfortable passing through those 0.1 inch spacing connectors with the 0.025 inch square pins. Don't know if they are still made.  HTH.             Jim Ford Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@...> Date: 8/21/21  10:17 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s) For equipment of this vintage, the standard spacing was 0.156. Higher density went to 0.1 inches, and there was a 0.125 in there somewhere.A quick look at mouser shows 44 pin dual readout (not what we need) for 11 dollars or so.  All others are not in stock.Amazon seems more reasonable, the JAMMA female connectors look decent enough, but check shipping and check prices for everything.HarveyOn 8/21/2021 10:50 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:> My approach to designing the TM500 proto board was similar to Harvey’s, except I skipped the paper template. I just measured the board from a TM500 plug-in and drew it up in my EDA package. The key slots were just a matter of drawing them into the board outline. I did do multiple measurements of the contact spacing and card edge finger dimensions with calipers before I drew anything on the computer, just to be sure (it did not occur to me to look up the connector and see what the specs were, for some fool reason). Once the board was drawn up I did multiple validation measurements using the EDA package’s measurement tool, to verify contact and key slot spacing against my sample plug-in.>> To layout the contacts I first drew a single contact position, copied and pasted it, and then carefully arranged it for my measured spacing. With a pair of contacts created I then repeated the process with the pair, then the quad, octet, etc, until I had 32 contacts with the correct spacing, then I deleted the unneeded contacts. It would have been smarter to set the package’s grid spacing to the connector’s spec beforehand, but I didn’t think of that (for some fool reason, again).>> When I got the boards from my PCB house (I used JLCPCB) I discovered that they had changed the width of the boards very slightly, adding a fraction of a mm for some reason. The cards were very hard to insert into the backplane, as a result. I used a hand file to take tiny fraction of a mm off either side of the card edge connector fingers and that seemed to do the trick, even though the change was barely visible to the naked eye (you could feel it pretty well with a finger nail, however). This is why I marked the modified boards with check marks, because I’d never be sure I had corrected them otherwise,>> Using the same method to make 5000-series extender would be easy enough. I don’t expect there will be much difficulty finding a card edge slot on Mouser of Digi-Key to fit the plug-ins, but I don’t think I’ve actually looked for those yet.>> — Jeff Dutky>>> >>>












Re: What is a mod BG to 7103 or 7104?

 

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 06:46 PM, John Griessen wrote:


So... what is mod BG
Mod BG description:

//
MOD BG includes modifying the 7104 by adding braces to
the front-panel casting and strengthening the mounting of the crt bezel.
//

/Håkan


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Jim Ford
 

Uh, high speed signals in a 5000 series scope? Well, maybe I'm thinking of the 5100 series, topping out at about 1-2 MHz. Great for audio and other low-frequency use.

I suppose the 5400 series goes up to 60 MHz, so you might want to use coax in your extender.

Jim Ford

------ Original Message ------
From: "Andy Warner" <andyw@...>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: 8/21/2021 4:15:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

I should clarify. This can happen if you use the the pcb that plugs into
the mainframe on a TM500, when you simply use the JAMMA extender as
bought, or when you would use it in a 5000 series scope (as per the OP.)

For the 5000 series scope, I would expect that:

1. The high speed signals would use coax (not present on JAMMA cables), so
you are likely to make a new cable harness.
2. Almost all the pins are used, unlike the TM500, that really leaves the
top pins uncommitted (until someone commits them.)

I was simply warning against buying the kind of JAMMA extenders that shorts
a bunch of pins out, that is all. As others have pointed out, it isn’t
fatal, and can be fixed, but I recommend taking the effort to avoid that
(and the resulting FR4 dust.)


On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 15:24 Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:


On 08/21/2021 09:09 AM, Andy Warner wrote:
> Watch out - some of the JAMMA extender cards have single copper pours
> spanning multiple connector locations, where the power rails are in the
> arcade game use case. For TM500 use, I don’t care, and just make sure
those
> align with the upper part of the slot, where the mainframe pins are
> uncommitted.

Be careful there. I did the same thing and one module was using a
couple of those pins and the tops blew off of a few ICs.


Vince.
--
Michigan VHF Corporation -- nobucks dot net
K8ZW - http://www.hamradio.fun





--
Andy





Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Jim Ford
 

Yeah, Harvey, I think I've seen the Molex ones, too. The ones I'm thinking of were right-angle and had a locking tab on top. Once mated, you had to lift the tab to get them unmated (and occasionally it would break off, ruining the connector, unless you didn't need it to lock). Probably not very useful with the TM500(0) series boxes, but I just thought I'd throw ITW Paktron out there.

BTW, I'm not a big fan of Molex. Seen AMP (now TE Connectivity) and other manufacturers have much better quality too many times vs. Molex.

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: 8/21/2021 4:11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

There are some molex connectors with that spacing, and heavier pins and sockets. Far enough back <grin> they used to be used for PC (and apple) power connectors.

finding them may be fun, though.

Harvey


On 8/21/2021 4:58 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
About 20 years ago we used ITW Paktron 0.156 inch spacing connectors for lines that needed to pass more current than we were comfortable passing through those 0.1 inch spacing connectors with the 0.025 inch square pins. Don't know if they are still made. HTH. Jim Ford Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@...> Date: 8/21/21 10:17 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s) For equipment of this vintage, the standard spacing was 0.156. Higher density went to 0.1 inches, and there was a 0.125 in there somewhere.A quick look at mouser shows 44 pin dual readout (not what we need) for 11 dollars or so. All others are not in stock.Amazon seems more reasonable, the JAMMA female connectors look decent enough, but check shipping and check prices for everything.HarveyOn 8/21/2021 10:50 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:> My approach to designing the TM500 proto board was similar to Harvey’s, except I skipped the paper template. I just measured the board from a TM500 plug-in and drew it up in my EDA package. The key slots were just a matter of drawing them into the board outline. I did do multiple measurements of the contact spacing and card edge finger dimensions with calipers before I drew anything on the computer, just to be sure (it did not occur to me to look up the connector and see what the specs were, for some fool reason). Once the board was drawn up I did multiple validation measurements using the EDA package’s measurement tool, to verify contact and key slot spacing against my sample plug-in.>> To layout the contacts I first drew a single contact position, copied and pasted it, and then carefully arranged it for my measured spacing. With a pair of contacts created I then repeated the process with the pair, then the quad, octet, etc, until I had 32 contacts with the correct spacing, then I deleted the unneeded contacts. It would have been smarter to set the package’s grid spacing to the connector’s spec beforehand, but I didn’t think of that (for some fool reason, again).>> When I got the boards from my PCB house (I used JLCPCB) I discovered that they had changed the width of the boards very slightly, adding a fraction of a mm for some reason. The cards were very hard to insert into the backplane, as a result. I used a hand file to take tiny fraction of a mm off either side of the card edge connector fingers and that seemed to do the trick, even though the change was barely visible to the naked eye (you could feel it pretty well with a finger nail, however). This is why I marked the modified boards with check marks, because I’d never be sure I had corrected them otherwise,>> Using the same method to make 5000-series extender would be easy enough. I don’t expect there will be much difficulty finding a card edge slot on Mouser of Digi-Key to fit the plug-ins, but I don’t think I’ve actually looked for those yet.>> — Jeff Dutky>>> >>>








Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Andy Warner
 

I should clarify. This can happen if you use the the pcb that plugs into
the mainframe on a TM500, when you simply use the JAMMA extender as
bought, or when you would use it in a 5000 series scope (as per the OP.)

For the 5000 series scope, I would expect that:

1. The high speed signals would use coax (not present on JAMMA cables), so
you are likely to make a new cable harness.
2. Almost all the pins are used, unlike the TM500, that really leaves the
top pins uncommitted (until someone commits them.)

I was simply warning against buying the kind of JAMMA extenders that shorts
a bunch of pins out, that is all. As others have pointed out, it isn’t
fatal, and can be fixed, but I recommend taking the effort to avoid that
(and the resulting FR4 dust.)


On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 15:24 Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:


On 08/21/2021 09:09 AM, Andy Warner wrote:
Watch out - some of the JAMMA extender cards have single copper pours
spanning multiple connector locations, where the power rails are in the
arcade game use case. For TM500 use, I don’t care, and just make sure
those
align with the upper part of the slot, where the mainframe pins are
uncommitted.
Be careful there. I did the same thing and one module was using a
couple of those pins and the tops blew off of a few ICs.


Vince.
--
Michigan VHF Corporation -- nobucks dot net
K8ZW - http://www.hamradio.fun





--
Andy


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Harvey White
 

There are some molex connectors with that spacing, and heavier pins and sockets.  Far enough back <grin> they used to be used for PC (and apple) power connectors.

finding them may be fun, though.

Harvey

On 8/21/2021 4:58 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
About 20 years ago we used ITW Paktron 0.156 inch spacing connectors for lines that needed to pass more current than we were comfortable passing through those 0.1 inch spacing connectors with the 0.025 inch square pins.  Don't know if they are still made.  HTH.             Jim Ford  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@...> Date: 8/21/21 10:17 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s) For equipment of this vintage, the standard spacing was 0.156. Higher density went to 0.1 inches, and there was a 0.125 in there somewhere.A quick look at mouser shows 44 pin dual readout (not what we need) for 11 dollars or so.  All others are not in stock.Amazon seems more reasonable, the JAMMA female connectors look decent enough, but check shipping and check prices for everything.HarveyOn 8/21/2021 10:50 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:> My approach to designing the TM500 proto board was similar to Harvey’s, except I skipped the paper template. I just measured the board from a TM500 plug-in and drew it up in my EDA package. The key slots were just a matter of drawing them into the board outline. I did do multiple measurements of the contact spacing and card edge finger dimensions with calipers before I drew anything on the computer, just to be sure (it did not occur to me to look up the connector and see what the specs were, for some fool reason). Once the board was drawn up I did multiple validation measurements using the EDA package’s measurement tool, to verify contact and key slot spacing against my sample plug-in.>> To layout the contacts I first drew a single contact position, copied and pasted it, and then carefully arranged it for my measured spacing. With a pair of contacts created I then repeated the process with the pair, then the quad, octet, etc, until I had 32 contacts with the correct spacing, then I deleted the unneeded contacts. It would have been smarter to set the package’s grid spacing to the connector’s spec beforehand, but I didn’t think of that (for some fool reason, again).>> When I got the boards from my PCB house (I used JLCPCB) I discovered that they had changed the width of the boards very slightly, adding a fraction of a mm for some reason. The cards were very hard to insert into the backplane, as a result. I used a hand file to take tiny fraction of a mm off either side of the card edge connector fingers and that seemed to do the trick, even though the change was barely visible to the naked eye (you could feel it pretty well with a finger nail, however). This is why I marked the modified boards with check marks, because I’d never be sure I had corrected them otherwise,>> Using the same method to make 5000-series extender would be easy enough. I don’t expect there will be much difficulty finding a card edge slot on Mouser of Digi-Key to fit the plug-ins, but I don’t think I’ve actually looked for those yet.>> — Jeff Dutky>>> >>>



Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Jim Ford
 

About 20 years ago we used ITW Paktron 0.156 inch spacing connectors for lines that needed to pass more current than we were comfortable passing through those 0.1 inch spacing connectors with the 0.025 inch square pins.  Don't know if they are still made.  HTH.             Jim Ford  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@...> Date: 8/21/21 10:17 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Wanted: 5000 series extender(s) For equipment of this vintage, the standard spacing was 0.156. Higher density went to 0.1 inches, and there was a 0.125 in there somewhere.A quick look at mouser shows 44 pin dual readout (not what we need) for 11 dollars or so.  All others are not in stock.Amazon seems more reasonable, the JAMMA female connectors look decent enough, but check shipping and check prices for everything.HarveyOn 8/21/2021 10:50 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:> My approach to designing the TM500 proto board was similar to Harvey’s, except I skipped the paper template. I just measured the board from a TM500 plug-in and drew it up in my EDA package. The key slots were just a matter of drawing them into the board outline. I did do multiple measurements of the contact spacing and card edge finger dimensions with calipers before I drew anything on the computer, just to be sure (it did not occur to me to look up the connector and see what the specs were, for some fool reason). Once the board was drawn up I did multiple validation measurements using the EDA package’s measurement tool, to verify contact and key slot spacing against my sample plug-in.>> To layout the contacts I first drew a single contact position, copied and pasted it, and then carefully arranged it for my measured spacing. With a pair of contacts created I then repeated the process with the pair, then the quad, octet, etc, until I had 32 contacts with the correct spacing, then I deleted the unneeded contacts. It would have been smarter to set the package’s grid spacing to the connector’s spec beforehand, but I didn’t think of that (for some fool reason, again).>> When I got the boards from my PCB house (I used JLCPCB) I discovered that they had changed the width of the boards very slightly, adding a fraction of a mm for some reason. The cards were very hard to insert into the backplane, as a result. I used a hand file to take tiny fraction of a mm off either side of the card edge connector fingers and that seemed to do the trick, even though the change was barely visible to the naked eye (you could feel it pretty well with a finger nail, however). This is why I marked the modified boards with check marks, because I’d never be sure I had corrected them otherwise,>> Using the same method to make 5000-series extender would be easy enough. I don’t expect there will be much difficulty finding a card edge slot on Mouser of Digi-Key to fit the plug-ins, but I don’t think I’ve actually looked for those yet.>> — Jeff Dutky>>> >>>


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Vince Vielhaber
 

On 08/21/2021 09:09 AM, Andy Warner wrote:
Watch out - some of the JAMMA extender cards have single copper pours
spanning multiple connector locations, where the power rails are in the
arcade game use case. For TM500 use, I don’t care, and just make sure those
align with the upper part of the slot, where the mainframe pins are
uncommitted.
Be careful there. I did the same thing and one module was using a couple of those pins and the tops blew off of a few ICs.


Vince.
--
Michigan VHF Corporation -- nobucks dot net
K8ZW - http://www.hamradio.fun


Weekend drool: Very clean 555

toby@...
 

Max Koschuh has received a spec'd out 555 that looks almost as-new.

Enjoy: https://youtu.be/kD4ILhE822c



--Toby


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Harvey White
 

For equipment of this vintage, the standard spacing was 0.156. Higher density went to 0.1 inches, and there was a 0.125 in there somewhere.

A quick look at mouser shows 44 pin dual readout (not what we need) for 11 dollars or so.  All others are not in stock.

Amazon seems more reasonable, the JAMMA female connectors look decent enough, but check shipping and check prices for everything.


Harvey

On 8/21/2021 10:50 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:
My approach to designing the TM500 proto board was similar to Harvey’s, except I skipped the paper template. I just measured the board from a TM500 plug-in and drew it up in my EDA package. The key slots were just a matter of drawing them into the board outline. I did do multiple measurements of the contact spacing and card edge finger dimensions with calipers before I drew anything on the computer, just to be sure (it did not occur to me to look up the connector and see what the specs were, for some fool reason). Once the board was drawn up I did multiple validation measurements using the EDA package’s measurement tool, to verify contact and key slot spacing against my sample plug-in.

To layout the contacts I first drew a single contact position, copied and pasted it, and then carefully arranged it for my measured spacing. With a pair of contacts created I then repeated the process with the pair, then the quad, octet, etc, until I had 32 contacts with the correct spacing, then I deleted the unneeded contacts. It would have been smarter to set the package’s grid spacing to the connector’s spec beforehand, but I didn’t think of that (for some fool reason, again).

When I got the boards from my PCB house (I used JLCPCB) I discovered that they had changed the width of the boards very slightly, adding a fraction of a mm for some reason. The cards were very hard to insert into the backplane, as a result. I used a hand file to take tiny fraction of a mm off either side of the card edge connector fingers and that seemed to do the trick, even though the change was barely visible to the naked eye (you could feel it pretty well with a finger nail, however). This is why I marked the modified boards with check marks, because I’d never be sure I had corrected them otherwise,

Using the same method to make 5000-series extender would be easy enough. I don’t expect there will be much difficulty finding a card edge slot on Mouser of Digi-Key to fit the plug-ins, but I don’t think I’ve actually looked for those yet.

— Jeff Dutky





Re: Tektronix 570 Curve Tracer

Michael W. Lynch
 

David,

Welcome Aboard! Following up on Zen's comments. Add the older Type 575 Curve Tracer to the list, as it is a viable option with the use of Dennis Tillman's VTCT Adapter. The 575 Mod122 is especially desirable. There is a solution for the HV Transformer failure on the 576. DM me for more details. The 576 and 577 both have their advantages. the 577 is well likes for its light weight and the 577 is available with a "storage" feature, which some people find quite useful. I have both 576 and 577, they are wonderful machines. One of these three instruments will be your best option, as the 570 is almost unobtainable at any reasonable price. Best of luck in your quest for one of these instruments.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

 

My approach to designing the TM500 proto board was similar to Harvey’s, except I skipped the paper template. I just measured the board from a TM500 plug-in and drew it up in my EDA package. The key slots were just a matter of drawing them into the board outline. I did do multiple measurements of the contact spacing and card edge finger dimensions with calipers before I drew anything on the computer, just to be sure (it did not occur to me to look up the connector and see what the specs were, for some fool reason). Once the board was drawn up I did multiple validation measurements using the EDA package’s measurement tool, to verify contact and key slot spacing against my sample plug-in.

To layout the contacts I first drew a single contact position, copied and pasted it, and then carefully arranged it for my measured spacing. With a pair of contacts created I then repeated the process with the pair, then the quad, octet, etc, until I had 32 contacts with the correct spacing, then I deleted the unneeded contacts. It would have been smarter to set the package’s grid spacing to the connector’s spec beforehand, but I didn’t think of that (for some fool reason, again).

When I got the boards from my PCB house (I used JLCPCB) I discovered that they had changed the width of the boards very slightly, adding a fraction of a mm for some reason. The cards were very hard to insert into the backplane, as a result. I used a hand file to take tiny fraction of a mm off either side of the card edge connector fingers and that seemed to do the trick, even though the change was barely visible to the naked eye (you could feel it pretty well with a finger nail, however). This is why I marked the modified boards with check marks, because I’d never be sure I had corrected them otherwise,

Using the same method to make 5000-series extender would be easy enough. I don’t expect there will be much difficulty finding a card edge slot on Mouser of Digi-Key to fit the plug-ins, but I don’t think I’ve actually looked for those yet.

— Jeff Dutky


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Harvey White
 

Be careful with those shorted pins.  Various plugins do use those pins and you can and will short out some things if the connector pins are shorted.

Harvey

On 8/21/2021 9:09 AM, Andy Warner wrote:
Watch out - some of the JAMMA extender cards have single copper pours
spanning multiple connector locations, where the power rails are in the
arcade game use case. For TM500 use, I don’t care, and just make sure those
align with the upper part of the slot, where the mainframe pins are
uncommitted.

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 00:06 Dave Peterson via groups.io <davidpinsf=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I'm studying the edge connector space right now. Specifically the
similarity and compatibility of Tektronix 5000 series, TM500/5000, and the
JAMMA edge connector specs At this point it appears that the two edge
connector physical characteristic standards are the same. But I'd like
something more along the lines of concrete specs before I go spending money.

Jarod Cabot recently (see post 8/13/21) recommended 305-056-520-201 for
the TM500. That finally gives me some pitch and spacing numbers. So far I
am having a difficult time nailing down a physical spec for the JAMMA
connector. I suspect that body didn't specify physical implementation and
that the industry came to some commonality in the use of a 56 pin edge
connectors.

In fact, I just read the Wikipedia page for JAMMA, and sure enough,
Tektronix use of the 56 pin edge connector is noted in that article. Ok, I
think I'm convinced.

There's a super cheap $11.99 JAMMA harness on Amazon that I can get next
Tuesday. That gets me a 2 foot extension with no slots in the male edge
connector. Looks like I might have to rewire it some, but two for $24 and
some rework sure beats > $80 for one 067-0645-03.

Thanks all for the advice and insights. Yet another facet of the Tektronix
universe I'm functionally familiar with now. I'll have to report back on
how it works out.



On Friday, August 20, 2021, 09:14:12 PM PDT, Jeff Dutky <
jeff.dutky@...> wrote:

Dave,

That's odd. I tried every board in my TM504 and they all fit. They did
seem to be a little too wide when I got them from the manufacturer, but I
filed each of them down (if you look on your board there should be a check
mark by the mounting hole next to pins #27 and #28 on the component side;
that check means that I filed that board down and checked that it fit in
the power module). They obviously only fit in one direction, with pin #1 at
the bottom, so did you have the board inserted upside down?

That suggests a change I should make in revision 1.1: add a "this side UP"
label.

The card edge contact spacing is standard, so those JAMMA boards should
fit, if you can cut the proper key slots. I would think that this would be
easy to do with a Dremel tool. The "standard JAMMA" side of the board may
not fit in the TM500 backplane: the key slot is not BETWEEN positions #6
and #7, but actually takes the place of position #7 entirely.The other side
of the adapter, however, can probably be made to work. That said, it would
only be slightly more expensive to design your own extender cards and have
them made by a PCB house. My proto cards only cost about $5 each. The
hardest part was the waiting.

I would avoid cutting 5000-series slots in my proto boards because I would
not want to have a board lying around that could accidentally be inserted
into the wrong backplane after I'd built some circuitry on it for the other
backplane. My proto boards have key slots cut so that they will fit into
any TM500 slot, regardless of the slot's capabilities. If you also cut the
key slots for the 5000-series you would have a card that could be truly
dangerous.

That suggests another change for revision 1.1: leave a small part of the
feature key slots (at positions 19/20, 21/22, 23/24, and 25/26) blocked so
that you need to cut them specifically for the target slot.

-- Jeff Dutky











--
Andy





Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Harvey White
 

What I did to replicate a TM500 plugin was to measure the connector finger width.  Then, knowing that the spacing is 0.156 inches, replicated the connector.  Since the connector is symmetric, notching the board required little more effort.  What you'd also want to do is to measure the slot on the TM500 motherboard, and make sure that your connector size and slot agree.  Printing out a paper copy and fitting it to a TM500 slot would be a good idea, ditto with the 5000 series scopes.

Perhaps a bit crude, but it works.

I found that the PC board house I use (SeeedStudio) can cut the key slot between pins without difficulty.

Since this was to be part of a project, I added a 5 volt regulator on the board, and brought out all the pins to two ribbon connectors.

Harvey

On 8/21/2021 1:06 AM, Dave Peterson via groups.io wrote:
I'm studying the edge connector space right now. Specifically the similarity and compatibility of Tektronix 5000 series, TM500/5000, and the JAMMA edge connector specs At this point it appears that the two edge connector physical characteristic standards are the same. But I'd like something more along the lines of concrete specs before I go spending money.

Jarod Cabot recently (see post 8/13/21) recommended 305-056-520-201 for the TM500. That finally gives me some pitch and spacing numbers. So far I am having a difficult time nailing down a physical spec for the JAMMA connector. I suspect that body didn't specify physical implementation and that the industry came to some commonality in the use of a 56 pin edge connectors.

In fact, I just read the Wikipedia page for JAMMA, and sure enough, Tektronix use of the 56 pin edge connector is noted in that article. Ok, I think I'm convinced.

There's a super cheap $11.99 JAMMA harness on Amazon that I can get next Tuesday. That gets me a 2 foot extension with no slots in the male edge connector. Looks like I might have to rewire it some, but two for $24 and some rework sure beats > $80 for one 067-0645-03.

Thanks all for the advice and insights. Yet another facet of the Tektronix universe I'm functionally familiar with now. I'll have to report back on how it works out.



On Friday, August 20, 2021, 09:14:12 PM PDT, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:
Dave,

That's odd. I tried every board in my TM504 and they all fit. They did seem to be a little too wide when I got them from the manufacturer, but I filed each of them down (if you look on your board there should be a check mark by the mounting hole next to pins #27 and #28 on the component side; that check means that I filed that board down and checked that it fit in the power module). They obviously only fit in one direction, with pin #1 at the bottom, so did you have the board inserted upside down?

That suggests a change I should make in revision 1.1: add a "this side UP" label.

The card edge contact spacing is standard,  so those JAMMA boards should fit, if you can cut the proper key slots. I would think that this would be easy to do with a Dremel tool. The "standard JAMMA" side of the board may not fit in the TM500 backplane: the key slot is not BETWEEN positions #6 and #7, but actually takes the place of position #7 entirely.The other side of the adapter, however, can probably be made to work. That said, it would only be slightly more expensive to design your own extender cards and have them made by a PCB house. My proto cards only cost about $5 each. The hardest part was the waiting.

I would avoid cutting 5000-series slots in my proto boards because I would not want to have a board lying around that could accidentally be inserted into the wrong backplane after I'd built some circuitry on it for the other backplane. My proto boards have key slots cut so that they will fit into any TM500 slot, regardless of the slot's capabilities. If you also cut the key slots for the 5000-series you would have a card that could be truly dangerous.

That suggests another change for revision 1.1: leave a small part of the feature key slots (at positions 19/20, 21/22, 23/24, and 25/26) blocked so that you need to cut them specifically for the target slot.

-- Jeff Dutky









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