Date   

Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Andy Warner
 

True, but I thought it worth pointing out that you can choose to try and
buy one without that problem.

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 08:18 SCMenasian <scm@menasians.com> wrote:

A Dremel (or similar) tool will make quick work of these connections.





--
Andy


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

SCMenasian
 

A Dremel (or similar) tool will make quick work of these connections.


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Andy Warner
 

Watch out - some of the JAMMA extender cards have single copper pours
spanning multiple connector locations, where the power rails are in the
arcade game use case. For TM500 use, I don’t care, and just make sure those
align with the upper part of the slot, where the mainframe pins are
uncommitted.

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 00:06 Dave Peterson via groups.io <davidpinsf=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I'm studying the edge connector space right now. Specifically the
similarity and compatibility of Tektronix 5000 series, TM500/5000, and the
JAMMA edge connector specs At this point it appears that the two edge
connector physical characteristic standards are the same. But I'd like
something more along the lines of concrete specs before I go spending money.

Jarod Cabot recently (see post 8/13/21) recommended 305-056-520-201 for
the TM500. That finally gives me some pitch and spacing numbers. So far I
am having a difficult time nailing down a physical spec for the JAMMA
connector. I suspect that body didn't specify physical implementation and
that the industry came to some commonality in the use of a 56 pin edge
connectors.

In fact, I just read the Wikipedia page for JAMMA, and sure enough,
Tektronix use of the 56 pin edge connector is noted in that article. Ok, I
think I'm convinced.

There's a super cheap $11.99 JAMMA harness on Amazon that I can get next
Tuesday. That gets me a 2 foot extension with no slots in the male edge
connector. Looks like I might have to rewire it some, but two for $24 and
some rework sure beats > $80 for one 067-0645-03.

Thanks all for the advice and insights. Yet another facet of the Tektronix
universe I'm functionally familiar with now. I'll have to report back on
how it works out.



On Friday, August 20, 2021, 09:14:12 PM PDT, Jeff Dutky <
jeff.dutky@gmail.com> wrote:

Dave,

That's odd. I tried every board in my TM504 and they all fit. They did
seem to be a little too wide when I got them from the manufacturer, but I
filed each of them down (if you look on your board there should be a check
mark by the mounting hole next to pins #27 and #28 on the component side;
that check means that I filed that board down and checked that it fit in
the power module). They obviously only fit in one direction, with pin #1 at
the bottom, so did you have the board inserted upside down?

That suggests a change I should make in revision 1.1: add a "this side UP"
label.

The card edge contact spacing is standard, so those JAMMA boards should
fit, if you can cut the proper key slots. I would think that this would be
easy to do with a Dremel tool. The "standard JAMMA" side of the board may
not fit in the TM500 backplane: the key slot is not BETWEEN positions #6
and #7, but actually takes the place of position #7 entirely.The other side
of the adapter, however, can probably be made to work. That said, it would
only be slightly more expensive to design your own extender cards and have
them made by a PCB house. My proto cards only cost about $5 each. The
hardest part was the waiting.

I would avoid cutting 5000-series slots in my proto boards because I would
not want to have a board lying around that could accidentally be inserted
into the wrong backplane after I'd built some circuitry on it for the other
backplane. My proto boards have key slots cut so that they will fit into
any TM500 slot, regardless of the slot's capabilities. If you also cut the
key slots for the 5000-series you would have a card that could be truly
dangerous.

That suggests another change for revision 1.1: leave a small part of the
feature key slots (at positions 19/20, 21/22, 23/24, and 25/26) blocked so
that you need to cut them specifically for the target slot.

-- Jeff Dutky











--
Andy


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Dave Peterson
 

I'm studying the edge connector space right now. Specifically the similarity and compatibility of Tektronix 5000 series, TM500/5000, and the JAMMA edge connector specs At this point it appears that the two edge connector physical characteristic standards are the same. But I'd like something more along the lines of concrete specs before I go spending money.

Jarod Cabot recently (see post 8/13/21) recommended 305-056-520-201 for the TM500. That finally gives me some pitch and spacing numbers. So far I am having a difficult time nailing down a physical spec for the JAMMA connector. I suspect that body didn't specify physical implementation and that the industry came to some commonality in the use of a 56 pin edge connectors.

In fact, I just read the Wikipedia page for JAMMA, and sure enough, Tektronix use of the 56 pin edge connector is noted in that article. Ok, I think I'm convinced.

There's a super cheap $11.99 JAMMA harness on Amazon that I can get next Tuesday. That gets me a 2 foot extension with no slots in the male edge connector. Looks like I might have to rewire it some, but two for $24 and some rework sure beats > $80 for one 067-0645-03.

Thanks all for the advice and insights. Yet another facet of the Tektronix universe I'm functionally familiar with now. I'll have to report back on how it works out.

On Friday, August 20, 2021, 09:14:12 PM PDT, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@gmail.com> wrote:

Dave,

That's odd. I tried every board in my TM504 and they all fit. They did seem to be a little too wide when I got them from the manufacturer, but I filed each of them down (if you look on your board there should be a check mark by the mounting hole next to pins #27 and #28 on the component side; that check means that I filed that board down and checked that it fit in the power module). They obviously only fit in one direction, with pin #1 at the bottom, so did you have the board inserted upside down?

That suggests a change I should make in revision 1.1: add a "this side UP" label.

The card edge contact spacing is standard,  so those JAMMA boards should fit, if you can cut the proper key slots. I would think that this would be easy to do with a Dremel tool. The "standard JAMMA" side of the board may not fit in the TM500 backplane: the key slot is not BETWEEN positions #6 and #7, but actually takes the place of position #7 entirely.The other side of the adapter, however, can probably be made to work. That said, it would only be slightly more expensive to design your own extender cards and have them made by a PCB house. My proto cards only cost about $5 each. The hardest part was the waiting.

I would avoid cutting 5000-series slots in my proto boards because I would not want to have a board lying around that could accidentally be inserted into the wrong backplane after I'd built some circuitry on it for the other backplane. My proto boards have key slots cut so that they will fit into any TM500 slot, regardless of the slot's capabilities. If you also cut the key slots for the 5000-series you would have a card that could be truly dangerous.

That suggests another change for revision 1.1: leave a small part of the feature key slots (at positions 19/20, 21/22, 23/24, and 25/26) blocked so that you need to cut them specifically for the target slot.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

 

Dave,

That's odd. I tried every board in my TM504 and they all fit. They did seem to be a little too wide when I got them from the manufacturer, but I filed each of them down (if you look on your board there should be a check mark by the mounting hole next to pins #27 and #28 on the component side; that check means that I filed that board down and checked that it fit in the power module). They obviously only fit in one direction, with pin #1 at the bottom, so did you have the board inserted upside down?

That suggests a change I should make in revision 1.1: add a "this side UP" label.

The card edge contact spacing is standard, so those JAMMA boards should fit, if you can cut the proper key slots. I would think that this would be easy to do with a Dremel tool. The "standard JAMMA" side of the board may not fit in the TM500 backplane: the key slot is not BETWEEN positions #6 and #7, but actually takes the place of position #7 entirely.The other side of the adapter, however, can probably be made to work. That said, it would only be slightly more expensive to design your own extender cards and have them made by a PCB house. My proto cards only cost about $5 each. The hardest part was the waiting.

I would avoid cutting 5000-series slots in my proto boards because I would not want to have a board lying around that could accidentally be inserted into the wrong backplane after I'd built some circuitry on it for the other backplane. My proto boards have key slots cut so that they will fit into any TM500 slot, regardless of the slot's capabilities. If you also cut the key slots for the 5000-series you would have a card that could be truly dangerous.

That suggests another change for revision 1.1: leave a small part of the feature key slots (at positions 19/20, 21/22, 23/24, and 25/26) blocked so that you need to cut them specifically for the target slot.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: New member intro, and a request....

 

Mike,

I am also planning to 3D print a cover (for a 2465 BDM, but same idea) but, until my 3D printer is set up, I have made a serviceable substitute out of closed-cell packing foam: just used a craft knife to cut holes for the knobs and CRT bezel, and it gives me a way to stand the scope on it's face so I can get the case off easily.

If I wanted to have a cover for travel I would cut some strips of plastic sheet and glue them onto the foam cover to give it more rigidity, and to provide latch points, but, while these are technically portable scopes, I have no intention of porting them around anywhere.

When I have the 3D printer set up I plan to print just the corners of the cover and the latch mechanism, and join them with hand cut plastic sheets, all glued together with epoxy. The scope covers are pretty big, and most 3D prints have a much smaller limit on how large an item they can print (many I have looked at are limited to something like 200x200x200 mm, or 8x8x8 inches).

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: New member intro, and a request....

M M
 

Did you ever experiment with the 3D printing?

I'd readily consider that as I still use my 465 and my 485 in the field occasionally.

I'm still looking for a cover...

Mike Morris WA6ILQ


More Stuff and a quick forest fire update

 

On the plus side, the Mt. Law fire is now moving away from us at Sphere, and we are in the clear in West Kelowna, but it is moving towards the main highway leading south. With any luck, they will stop it before that, a lot of helicopters are at work on the fire. Details are here: https://www.castanet.net/news/West-Kelowna/343459/Mount-Law-wildfire-creeping-south-towards-Okanagan-Connector#343459

For those (like me) needing a break from all this, I got more stuff ready for the Stuff page, including some very nice Tek TM5000 items, another powered breadboard, and lots of interesting $1 and $2 things you will enjoy.
you can see it all here: https://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/stuffday.html

The big problem looming for us now is the inevitable Covid spike when un-vaccinated kids return to school, nobody has a good fix for that. The guess here is 10-12,000 new cases in BC a week it it goes badly. Nobody is looking forward to that, as we simply have no effective way to protect the kids yet. Delta is really dangerous up here, not sure how it's going elsewhere.

all the best and stay safe,
regards,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
https://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/index.html


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Dave Peterson
 

Jeff,

I tried your board on the 5110 (5103N) last night and it worked fine. When I tried it on one of the TM503s it would not fit the interface connector. I think you've said before it's a little too wide. It did make me want to look up the part numbers, and perhaps some data sheets to get exact dimensions.


I wouldn't hack up your proto-board to use as an extender - it's too nice for that! The eBay listing sent by SCMenasian is an excellent choice, but even further searching for JAMMA harness show that perhaps these can be used directly? I'll have to study their dimensions. Or perhaps just order one or two and try 'em out.


The real difference seems to boil down to the slots and blocks in the connectors that keep one from making potentially disastrous reversed connections. Or perhaps illegal plug-in mainframe mismatches. I'd like to think I'd be careful enough to avoid that. DIY doesn't have to be idiot proof.

On Friday, August 20, 2021, 3:30:08 PM PDT, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@gmail.com> wrote:

Dave,

my layout for the TM500 protoboard could be easily modified to serve as a 5000-series extender. It would just require changing where the key slots are. I need to do a second run on that board with both the mods I’ve thought of, and with the proper production options to get gold plating. I could make a copy of the project and mod it for the 5000-series.

— Jeff Dutky


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

 

Dave,

my layout for the TM500 protoboard could be easily modified to serve as a 5000-series extender. It would just require changing where the key slots are. I need to do a second run on that board with both the mods I’ve thought of, and with the proper production options to get gold plating. I could make a copy of the project and mod it for the 5000-series.

— Jeff Dutky


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Ke-Fong Lin
 

If anyone has a parts list and/or Newark/Digikey/Mouser references that'd be
appreciated too. I've already started my own research to better understand the
variations between 5100, 5400, and TM500/5000 plug-ins.
5000 series scope plug-ins have two "notches" vs only one for TM500/5000. And the notches are at different place.
Other than that, they are the same PCB edge connector.
For TM500/5000 part lists and gerber take a look here : https://github.com/anotherlin/tek_tm_ext


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

SCMenasian
 

Since you might want a DIY solution, I can suggest 2 possibilities.

The first is to buy a JAMMA harness on eBay and modify it. This invoves separating a coupe of
bridge contacts and cutting a keying slot in the right position. In my case, I completely removed its cable since I had some nice multiconductor fat cable and reassembled it with the correct wiring. It's been working well ever since. I never got around to installing a key in the female side; so, I'm always careful to plug the module into it in the correct orientation.

After I did that, I found this on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293628927428

You get a board with 2 male connectors, back to back. If you cut the board in half, you will have 2 male connectors. I will use it when I make custom modules; but, one can use a standard female connector with it to make an extender.


Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Dave Peterson
 

Yes, I made a little spreadsheet of the interfaces for my own benefit, including the block-outs. Previously I quickly discovered the incompatibility of the 5400 plug-ins with the 5100's. Fortunately the keyways and RTFM Jeff D. showed me the error of my ways and kept me from damaging anything.

I am curious to know if the 5000 series 067-0645-03 would, in theory, work in the TM500 (067-0645-02), and vice-versa. Differing part numbers leads me to believe not. But I still don't know what the physical difference between the connector sockets is (aside from keyways).

On Friday, August 20, 2021, 1:29:37 PM PDT, Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

The three series use the same connector, but with wildly different
connections (at least between TMxxx and the 5xxx series scopes).  IIRC,
there are keyways used to keep one piece of equipment out of an
incompatible one.

Harvey


On 8/20/2021 4:06 PM, Dave Peterson via groups.io wrote:
If anyone has a line on a pair of 5000 series extenders, 067-0645-03, I'd appreciate the reference.

I do see a couple on eBay, but they are of course on the pricey side. For those prices I'm more inclined to research and build a DIY solution.

I've done a little research on here and I understand there have been some kits at times. That they also occasionally show up online for a reasonable price has led me to setup an automated notice should any more get listed. I'll keep any eye out. I have time.

If anyone has a parts list and/or Newark/Digikey/Mouser references that'd be appreciated too. I've already started my own research to better understand the variations between 5100, 5400, and TM500/5000 plug-ins. Not that I'm well versed yet. I figure next steps would be to find actual connector sockets to order, some ribbon cable, and then some plug-in boards. I recently saw a socket reference for the TM500, but I don't think that's the correct socket for the 5000 series. That's part of what I'm trying to figure out - are the 5000 series and TM500 sockets different?

Just thought I'd check before I start assembling my own.

Thanks,
Dave






Re: Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Harvey White
 

The three series use the same connector, but with wildly different connections (at least between TMxxx and the 5xxx series scopes).  IIRC, there are keyways used to keep one piece of equipment out of an incompatible one.

Harvey

On 8/20/2021 4:06 PM, Dave Peterson via groups.io wrote:
If anyone has a line on a pair of 5000 series extenders, 067-0645-03, I'd appreciate the reference.

I do see a couple on eBay, but they are of course on the pricey side. For those prices I'm more inclined to research and build a DIY solution.

I've done a little research on here and I understand there have been some kits at times. That they also occasionally show up online for a reasonable price has led me to setup an automated notice should any more get listed. I'll keep any eye out. I have time.

If anyone has a parts list and/or Newark/Digikey/Mouser references that'd be appreciated too. I've already started my own research to better understand the variations between 5100, 5400, and TM500/5000 plug-ins. Not that I'm well versed yet. I figure next steps would be to find actual connector sockets to order, some ribbon cable, and then some plug-in boards. I recently saw a socket reference for the TM500, but I don't think that's the correct socket for the 5000 series. That's part of what I'm trying to figure out - are the 5000 series and TM500 sockets different?

Just thought I'd check before I start assembling my own.

Thanks,
Dave





Wanted: 5000 series extender(s)

Dave Peterson
 

If anyone has a line on a pair of 5000 series extenders, 067-0645-03, I'd appreciate the reference.

I do see a couple on eBay, but they are of course on the pricey side. For those prices I'm more inclined to research and build a DIY solution.

I've done a little research on here and I understand there have been some kits at times. That they also occasionally show up online for a reasonable price has led me to setup an automated notice should any more get listed. I'll keep any eye out. I have time.

If anyone has a parts list and/or Newark/Digikey/Mouser references that'd be appreciated too. I've already started my own research to better understand the variations between 5100, 5400, and TM500/5000 plug-ins. Not that I'm well versed yet. I figure next steps would be to find actual connector sockets to order, some ribbon cable, and then some plug-in boards. I recently saw a socket reference for the TM500, but I don't think that's the correct socket for the 5000 series. That's part of what I'm trying to figure out - are the 5000 series and TM500 sockets different?

Just thought I'd check before I start assembling my own.

Thanks,
Dave


Re: TDS 744A - 7u01 upgrade kit ??

Mark
 

Check with the nice people at vintagetek.org. They have a lot of info on microfiche.


Re: TDS 744A - 7u01 upgrade kit ??

David Slipper
 

Thanks for that :-)

Shame the files are not available.

Dave

On 20/08/2021 20:12, zenith5106 via groups.io wrote:
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 08:10 PM, David Slipper wrote:

Or perhaps its a software/fw upgrade ??
Yes firmware only.
Instructions here: http://hakanh.com/dl/docs/kitinstructions/tdsxxxU01.pdf
Since it's firmware installation had to be done by Tek and the kit was never
sold directly to customers.
/Håkan




Re: TDS 744A - 7u01 upgrade kit ??

 

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 08:10 PM, David Slipper wrote:


Or perhaps its a software/fw upgrade ??
Yes firmware only.
Instructions here: http://hakanh.com/dl/docs/kitinstructions/tdsxxxU01.pdf
Since it's firmware installation had to be done by Tek and the kit was never
sold directly to customers.
/Håkan


TDS 744A - 7u01 upgrade kit ??

David Slipper
 

It looks like I need to apply this to my 744A the s/n is in the range B020xxx but I cannot find a reference to it anywhere.
Anyone know where I might find one ??
Or perhaps its a software/fw upgrade ??
Regards,
Dave


Re: Tektronix 575 122C trimmer capacitors

Keith
 

Yeah, reckon so.

The plot has thickened a little bit as I've searched even more documentation on this pesky little trimmer capacitor.

Here's the latest: Specifically, in the 1964 published version of the field version of the Mod122C, the mysterious C239 capacitor is specifically mentioned. In fact, the part is specifically INCLUDED in the field kit for Mod122C. Even more, there is a specific instruction about how and where to add the part, including a drawing of where it goes!

See for yourself: https://w140.com/tektronix_575_mod_122c_modifications.pdf

pdf pages 5, 16, 17, 21 manifest, mentions, drawings, cal procedure for the use of the part.

This seems to mean at least one thing with a fair degree of certainty. On Scopes built before 1964 and not already Mod122C, Tek was expecting at least some of the field modified 575 to be missing this part. Thus, the kit made provision to add the part. That's why it is part of the kit as issued in 1964. Remember, by 1964 the 575 was well past the "#101-4779" notation.

Bottom line: In 1964, Tek thought C239 should be there on 122ModC versions.

So,

a.) C239 - it appears it was NOT present on some (or all?) 575 versions built before 1964.
b.) It appears that by 1964 Tek specifically ADDED it for 122ModC field modifications on such scopes.
c.) One can only presume that, in Tek's opinion, it is a necessary part for 575 122ModC, (or at least the field version of the mod)

So then why is it MISSING from my circa 1962 575 Mod122C curve tracer?

The only conclusion I can draw is that it was an improvement made after 1962 and not a deletion. Otherwise, I can't come up with a reasonable way to explain why on my '62 model, and on others I see posted on TekWiki, it is absent. But in 1964 field modification kits, C239 was clearly specified and supplied.

Great! now I'm torn...
Maybe I'll just put one in and see if it creates a time-vortex or black hole or something. :-)

Keith
coolblueglow

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