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Re: Transporting a 500-Series Scope without Breaking the CRT

greenboxmaven
 

The packing material you referred to was likely rubberized horsehair. It was used extensively for packing heavy items at the time, and worked very well. The military used it as well. In the 1960s, burning trash was fairly common in many places. If you threw that packing material in the fire, everyone for a mile around knew it. PEEEEEUUUUU! I think there was a similar packing that used nylon strands to replace the horsehair, it was stiffer and had a totally different smell. Oh yeah, we always saved all of the aerisol cans, electrolytic condensers, and batteries from the shop to throw in the fire as well.

    Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 5/5/21 23:21, Greg Muir via groups.io wrote:
I vaguely remember receiving a new 524AD in a heavy cardboard box with a molded rubberized fiber surrounding it forming a sort of cavity. The material had sort of a slightly springy characteristic to it yet it didn’t give from the weight. Upon receiving it you simply plugged it in.

These scopes were supplied by RCA as part of their complete broadcast television packages and if I can remember were drop shipped from Tek. I say “drop shipped” but don’t really mean it literally but the 60+ pound weight of the scope may have caused them to experience the “real thing.”

In those days we also received the larger transmitter final tubes packed in the same material. It seemed to be the packaging of choice in that era.

Greg




Re: Transporting a 500-Series Scope without Breaking the CRT

Greg Muir
 

I vaguely remember receiving a new 524AD in a heavy cardboard box with a molded rubberized fiber surrounding it forming a sort of cavity. The material had sort of a slightly springy characteristic to it yet it didn’t give from the weight. Upon receiving it you simply plugged it in.

These scopes were supplied by RCA as part of their complete broadcast television packages and if I can remember were drop shipped from Tek. I say “drop shipped” but don’t really mean it literally but the 60+ pound weight of the scope may have caused them to experience the “real thing.”

In those days we also received the larger transmitter final tubes packed in the same material. It seemed to be the packaging of choice in that era.

Greg


Comprehensive parts list for 2430/2440

Mark Vincent
 

Mr. Joerg Rrichardt said I should put this list on the site for others who
want to have the list for restoring their scope. Here it is.

The parts I selected are the best in quality I could find. I want parts to
be in a piece for a long time without replacing because of a cheap part
that barely works. The part numbers are Mouser numbers. Ones that do not
have a part number after them are in the amount above with the same value.
No prices since I do not know the conversion for different countries. I did
not list the axial tantalums on the A10 and A11 boards as they rarely go
bad. They could be changed if the owner wants. R420 and R421 on the A16
board were lowered to bleed the B+ off faster. There is no reason other
than it as a random selection that is a common to find. What I called for
is a 1% type although a 5% will be fine in this case. The battery is a
larger capacity one than originally used to give a longer life. Early
models have a battery in one place and the chip to the rear while newer
ones use the Dallas type with the internal battery. This is a comprehensive
list. Check the s/n of your unit to make sure it matches parts. Higher
capacitance values are in some cases. It will filter better. The board
numbers, Axx:, are listed in order they appear in the manual. The power
supply diodes are not listed. Replace as necessary with heavier duty ones
when originals fail.

A10: C110, C111, C112, C122, C140, C141, C142, C169, C190, C202, C211,
C213, C215, C223, C263, C265, C340, C465, C468, C471, C480, C511C C523,
C524, C652, C768, C851- 47MFD 25V (40) 647-ULD1E470MDD1TD
C530- 22MFD 10V 581-TAP-226K010SRW
A11: C130, C131, C700, C701, C702- 22MFD 25V to 47MFD
A12: BT800 battery 667-TL5903P
C590, C882, C884, C886, C904- 47MFD 25V
C938- 10MFD 25V 647-ULD1H1100MDD1TD
A13: C702, C731- 22MFD 25V (2) 581-TAP226K025SRW
C881 1MFD 35V (film) (10) 80-R82DC4100DQ60J
A14: C903, C904- 47MFD 25V
A16: C105, C305- 680MFD 200V (2) 647-LGR2D681MELA40 or (2)
647-LGR2D821MELC30 for higher filtering if it will physically fit.
C128, C138, C184, C829, C900- 1MFD 35V (film)
C244- 180MFD 40V to 35V 647-UHE1V221MPD1TD
C262, C553- 840MFD 12v TO 1200MFD 16V (2) 647-UHE1C122MPD
C455- 1200MFD 6,3V TO 1500MFD 16V 647-UHE1C152MHD6
C460, C856, C956- 250MFD 20V to 330MFD 16V (3) 647-UHE1C331MPD
C461, C487, C494, C550, C585, C594, C595, CC650, C695, C947- 100MFD 25V
(11) 647-UHE1E101MED1TD
C664, C764- 4,7MFD 35V (2) 80-R82CC4470Z330J
C706, C816- ,068MFD film (2) 594-F339X136848MFP2B
C625- ,01MFD 80-F872BB103M480R
C219, C225- ,0022MFD 594-F339X122248MDA2B
C223- .001MFD 871-B32911A5102M
C750, C756- 180MFD 25V to 330MFD (2) 647-UHE1E331MPD6
R420, R421- 470,000 to 150,000 1W (2) 594-MBE04140C1503FC1
R223- 100,000 1/2W to 2W 71-CPF3100K00FHE14
R627- 150,000 1/2W 660-MF1/2CC1503F OR (100) 273-150K Xicon only sells
1/2W in packs of 100
A17: C218- 4,7MFD 100V 647-ULD2A4R7MDD1TD
C317- 10MFD 100V 647-ULD-2A100MED1TD
C613- 100MFD 25V 647-UHE1E101MED1TA
A10: R220, R512, 360 1/2W to 1W (2) 279-H4P360RFZA
A17: R245- 357,000 1/2W 594-HVR3700003573FR5
R246- 442,000 1/2W 603-MFR50SFTE52-442K
R247- 121,000 1W 71-CCF60-121K-E3
R248- 169,000 1W (2) 71-CMF5584K500FHEK (put these two in series)
R689- 357,000 1W MFR100FTE52-330K in series with 756-MFR4-27KFI
Optional- change the two NTC from the mains input from 5 ohms to 10 ohms to
reduce inrush current. (2) 527-CL60

Use a high deg. C m/k (4 or more) heatsink compound from heatsink to inside
base to help transfer heat and on any devices on a heatsink. Something like
MX-4 compound. Using this compound is advised for the 2465/7 series. Put
the compound on the CCD chips with the black heatsinks.The RIFA capacitors
have been speced and changed manufacturer to X1 values which will easily
handle 230/240V mains. The voltage rating of these is higher than the X2
types. Be sure to oil the fan with a heavier oil. That has not been
lubricated since it was new. Using a shielded mains cord will help keep
noise from being radiated from the cord by the noise coming in and noise
generated from the supply. Any FAIL modes might change to PASS after
replacing the battery and power cycling it a couple of times. My 2440 did
this. I do not know how it went from FAIL to PASS without calibration
unless the internal resistance of the new battery is the reason even though
the original checked good with a VTVM.

Mark


Re: 575 restoration

Mark Vincent
 

Paul,

Increasing C811 will not hurt. Higher capacitance will reduce the noise at that circuit. I mentioned Orange Drops since those are well known. The ones you have in stock are fine. Replacing an axial to radial is fine. What John said is correct about noise sources! Invest in a Isobar power strip. Those are worth the cost. A shielded power cord will also help.

If you replace any of the electrolytics, use Nichcion LGR, LGZ (for 82mfd or larger 450V), ULD, UCY or UHE. These are low ESR which filter high frequency noise better than the originals or new general purpose electrolytics either 85 or 105C that are not low ESR. These ones I listed are also long life, 5000-20000 hours. Adding a ,01mfd 1kV ceramic across electrolytics will help with noise reduction. A Corcom line filter may be needed underside if the noise is still there. I would mount it as to not drill any holes to keep the piece original. This type would be with flying leads on each end.

You can change the light source if that is a noise generator. Using a lamp with a filament will not generate noise, e.g. carbon filament, tungsten or halogen. A small VARIAC can be used to dim the lamp when desired. That will be a linear way that does not generate noise like a standard triac lamp/motor dimmer.

Mark

Mark


Re: Novice X-Y Problem 2265

 

Alan,

The 2200-series WERE "cheap and flimsy" compared to the 400-series scopes (well, the knobs and buttons were, at least. The cases were still pretty well made), but that was by design: Tek was facing fierce competition from Japanese manufacturers and they designed the 2200-series scopes to reduce cost of parts and assembly (and, whether intentional, or just a fortuitous side effect, of maintenance). The 2200-series scopes also wound up being much lighter than the 400-series, but I'm not sure that is a cost-cutting measure, or if it was meant as an improvement in user-experience (it certainly is easier to haul a 2235 around than a 465).

The later 2200-series scopes, like the 2246, increased the cost cutting by going to entirely (or mostly) digital controls, but this also allowed the controls to be programmed by GPIB or loaded from saved settings, which was another kind of user-experience improvement, though not one that everybody appreciates in equal measure. Lots of folks, myself included, like solid, direct mechanical controls rather than fly-by-wire instrumentation.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Novice X-Y Problem 2265

Wayne
 

Good clarification--I think you are correct on the single blink, but can't remember for sure.

Actually, you might still be able to get it to work--there may not be a problem here. Since you can't seem to turn everything off in the MODE section, If you just leave chan 2 on, and ground the chan 2 input (both lights off), you should still be able to get a horizontal line if there is a signal on the channel 1 input. If you are feeding the square wave probe compensation ("calibrator") signal into chan 1, the square wave will result in two dots in the horizontal plane, due to the "dwell time" of the signal at the positive and negative portions of the square wave. If you briefly turn up the intensity, you should see a faint line between the dots, representing the rise/fall portions of the square wave. Just put your X and Y signals in as I said in the previous post, and it ought to work if all is OK with the scope.

I understand your "cheap and flimsy" comment after using the 465; I feel the same way, but I have to say I find it very nice to have a much lighter scope to carry around. And both my 2245A and 2247A work very well. And all of them, in my estimation, are nicer to use than the new digital scopes that have one knob with many functions that you are always having to select with push buttons. The older ones are much faster to use, at least for me.


Re: 575 restoration

John
 

In my case the dot pattern on the collector sweep was due noise (from compact flourescents /smps etc) on the mains supply. This has been likewise identified as a common problem by others.
John


Re: Novice X-Y Problem 2265

Alan Young <agyoung@...>
 

By flashing I should have said blinks once. I think that is normal behavior as anytime a switch is pushed that will briefly blink an indicator.
I really like the 465 much better than this 2246. This one feels “cheap” and flimsy. (Trying to justify a 465!).

Thanks again.

Alan


Re: Plastic Part for a 3L5

Jim Adney
 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 01:47 PM, Michael W. Lynch wrote:

I think the part that Dave is speaking of is #87 "Spool,switch actuator" Shown
on page # 2 of the exploded diagram. #87 is secured to the shaft and moves the
"switch detent" #91 as the knob is pulled out.
Okay, I see them now. Those are different. #87 may be a simple collar, possibly Al, and certainly easy to reproduce.

#91 might well serve the same purpose as the part I'm asking about, but it appears to be quite different, and it's part number is completely different.

This was a simple collar with a groove in the center that I was suggesting to be built on a lathe.
Yes, that would have been nice and easy.

thanks,


Re: Plastic Part for a 3L5

Jim Adney
 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 01:47 PM, David Holland wrote:

Is this the part you're talking about?

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/263828/3220488
Yes, it's there, way in the background. It's hidden behind the shaft and the bits on the shaft. The Al disk engages the part I'm asking about.

Here are two photos I just took of it from two different angles. Sorry, they are poor and we don't get to see much in either photo.

groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/262268/3220553

groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/262268/3220555

If you'll scan to the photos to the left and right of these two, you'll find a photo of the Tek drawing for this part, as well as a sketch I made, trying to make some of the dimensions clearer. There are some things in the Tek drawing that I'm not clear on, mostly the ribs in the center hole which may be to eliminate clearance to the slide switch toggle. It's possible that those ribs are the only thing that holds that part in place, which seems pretty odd.


Re: Transporting a 500-Series Scope without Breaking the CRT

 

One thing I have been wondering is what the original Tek packaging looked like for one of these scopes. Was there internal bracing that had to be removed before the scope was powered up? Were the scopes shipped with some components separately packed for installation at the customer site (e.g. the CRT)? Were shippers more careful with the packages in their charge in the 1950s and 60s, or did Tek use their own shipping organization (in house, or contracted)?

The 400 and 2200 series portable scopes, which were my initial introduction to Tek scopes are obviously more amenable to shipment, built as they are to be hauled around and handled with less care than a bench top scope might expect or require, and I think I understand better what their packaging from the factory would have looked like (lots of form fitting styrofoam or cut-to-fit blocks of polyurethane/styrine/carbonate foam). I have no good feeling for what the factory packaging for a 500-series scope would have been.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Transporting a 500-Series Scope without Breaking the CRT

Greg Muir
 

Apologies for pulling this post back to the original subject after it has started to cover the entire spectrum of things.

Working for one company I had to send all of our products over to the local UPS shipping test center to validate our packaging. It was well worth it. They beat the packages up consistently and managed to point out the weak areas as well as possible shock and vibration issues in our products. One of the packaging engineers also sent our products over to the local aerospace organization to give the items a good run on their shake tables. It was interesting to watch as certain areas of the innards would light up at various frequencies.

With some agencies certain packaging requirements had to me met such as MIL/DOD and ASTM. But these didn’t necessarily spell out complete cushioning needs so a “best guess” had to be employed. In my earlier years when I first started working at one organization I would pack an item and take it down to the shipping & receiving department. The diehard old manager would hold the package over his head while standing on the concrete floor and state “If I drop this will it survive?’ I would then take the package back and re-do things until I got it right.

All my current 500 series scopes and other equipment that are in storage are in custom built wooden crates with sections of 2” PolyPlank cushioning. This includes scope carts as well. Makes for an overall heavier package but well worth it. OCD at work here.

Never had a problem when moving.

Greg


Re: Plastic Part for a 3L5

Michael W. Lynch
 

Well., I was totally off on which part you were referring to. I had in mind a shaft collar or coupler.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


Re: Novice X-Y Problem 2265

David Holland
 

What about these settings? (From another one of my old pictures where I
was aligning an IF strip w/ a 2246, IIRC, it was w/ X/Y mode.)

X in Channel 1
Y in Channel 2

DC Coupling for both.

A and B Mode button: X-Y
Vertical Mode button: Channel 2

I wouldn't think triggering would be applicable to X/Y Mode. So the
whole group of Triggering settings on the right have no bearing.

David

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:03 PM Wayne via groups.io <WAYNECL=
AOL.COM@groups.io> wrote:

That does sound like a problem with the scope. There might be some info
in the book about the flashing displays but I don’t have time to look into
it for a couple of days now. See if you can find anything about what the
flashing means. And, it my be something peculiar to the 2246-I only have
the s open on either side of that one. Maybe someone else can shed some
light.






Re: Buying Tek equipment on eBay or on Swap meets

Dave Seiter
 

I don't like using peanuts for anything heavy just for this reason.  I bought a bag (cubic yard, I believe) of peanuts about 2008 and I'm still using it (of course, I keep adding to it from incoming boxes).  When I have resorted to them, I pre-shake and over stuff, so that the box bulges a bit.  No losses so far.  
What I really like to use is polyethylene planking.  Not only does it provide cushioning, it can give structural support to less than ideal boxes. I used to get piles of it from work, but now it's hard to come across.
-Dave
-----------------------
Another mistake I’ve experienced is using styrofoam peanuts. Shippers will
assume they stay in place but they act like a fluid. You can try this
yourself if you want to experiment. Fill a box with styrofoam peanuts, put
a heavy object (please - something that can take it or that you don’t need
- like a rock) on top. Close the box and shake it. You will likely find the
object at, or near, the bottom. If you pack the peanuts tightly enough or
combine them with barriers to restrict movement, then this won’t happen. If
I do use peanuts, I try to use the biodegradable ones made from starch. To
limit movement, I put them in bags and pack those around the item - it
prevents item movement and makes unpacking much easier. Plus, the packing
peanuts can easily be collected for re-use or put in your mulch (I’d be
cautious about that - edible stuff in mulch may attract rodents).


Re: Novice X-Y Problem 2265

Wayne
 

That does sound like a problem with the scope. There might be some info in the book about the flashing displays but I don’t have time to look into it for a couple of days now. See if you can find anything about what the flashing means. And, it my be something peculiar to the 2246-I only have the s open on either side of that one. Maybe someone else can shed some light.


Re: Plastic Part for a 3L5

Jim Adney
 

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 05:32 PM, Jim Adney wrote:

My question is whether this part was used in other plugins
Okay, I thought to check the obvious 1L5, and I see that it uses the same part: 376-0063-00, #73 in Figure 2.


Re: Buying Tek equipment on eBay or on Swap meets

John Ferguson
 

Way OT, but.... runaway foaming

A new man made a delivery of catalyzer to a refrigerated trailer builder we worked with.  They were insulated with poly-urethane probably same thing UPS was using.

The trailers were foamed by erecting a mandrel inside the trailer and a shell on the outside so that the liner and the outside would stay parallel under foaming. They did this in a building designed for this purpose.

Our hero drove up to the hydrant and found that the connector on the hose he had didn't fit the hydrant, so he came up with an adaptor and then proceeded to fill the resin tank with catalyzer. The resulting pressure of the newly catalyzed resin was enough to burst a diaphragm in the system such that the building was filled with foam, as in FILLED.  It was a lightly constructed building in East Texas and although I never saw the result, the building took on the appearance of a sausage.

Our firm was hired to fix it.  Chain Saws worked the best although they did cause some damage to the equipment.

john

On 5/5/21 2:41 PM, Jeff Dutky wrote:
someone wrote:
I don't know about FedEx or UPS but the local electronics companies near
me all use the foam in place machines and they are very effective at
preventing damage to electronic equipment. I'm surprised that UPS and Fedex
don't use those.
Back in the late-90s the local UPS facility (actually UPS, not a franchised storefront) had one of the foam-in-place machines for public use (the paying public; I'm sure you had to be preparing a package for UPS shipment to use the machine, or maybe you paid per use, I don't recall the details now). I helped a friend ship a Northgate CP/M computer and we packed with the expanding foam. It was easy to use and very effective, but I can imagine that a clumsy customer could have made a terrible mess if they were not careful with the dispenser.

-- Jeff Dutky




Re: Plastic Part for a 3L5

Michael W. Lynch
 

David,

I'll bet that is it. That certainly is a complex little piece of molding.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


Re: Plastic Part for a 3L5

David Holland
 

Is this the part you're talking about?

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/263828/3220488?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

(Old picture, from mine). Obviously, mine is in working order, but I can
see the difficulty in replicating it. I'm not so sure about the strength
of 3D printed PETG and/or PLA. Maybe a job for a CNC router and a
better plastic?

David

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 2:31 PM Jim Adney <jadney@vwtype3.org> wrote:

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 01:21 PM, Michael W. Lynch wrote:

I have time and 3D printers, willing to help if needed.
Thanks for the offer, but I have a local friend with a 3D printer. I
totally agree with the need to be able to test any replacements in place,
making the local option the best one.





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