Date   

Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

Richard Knoppow
 

I mostly had problems with aa and aaa cells. The bad AA cells had two dots on the bottom.  These leaked when brand new.  Duracell stopped making them for a while . The current crop seem to be ok.Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: Eric Schumacher <wb6kcn@sbcglobal.net> Date: 3/21/21 4:03 PM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Beware of old AntiStatic foam Hi KenHere's a second vote for energizers and a bunch of thumbs down for Duracell regarding corrosion. The only good news about Duracell "corrosion" on cell contacts is that CLR cleaner makes it disappear and your contacts look like new. I put corrosion in quotes because actual metal damage occurs much later and the CLR and stiff brush easily removes all that white dust and green stuff. My real question is Why do people buy those things???Eric  WB6KCN-----Original Message-----From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ken, WA2LBISent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 9:19 AMTo: TekScopes@groups.ioSubject: Re: [TekScopes] Beware of old AntiStatic foamThat old foam is awful stuff. I’ve had headphone head bands and ear padscrumble to dust. I’ve also lost ICs that were pressed into the foam.Foam-lined storage cases have damaged or destroyed stored items. Oldmicrophone inserts become dust. There are many other examples...A few years ago, after many leaking batteries - some still new in thepackage, I removed every Duracell battery from every device I own. I’velost a number of flashlights, kid’s toys, remote controls, etc. The worstis the damage done to my electronic test gear. I switched to Energizer and,since then, have not had a single device device damaged by battery leakage.The other item to check is the stick on feet used on so much equipment. Aswe know, they turn to a slimy, sticky mess that also gets on the adjacentsurface and is difficult to remove. At the very least, over time, they“migrate” from their original position and leave a slimy trail.<rant off>KenWA2LBIOn Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:> As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not> to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.>> The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the> damaged item if you call them.  Their warranty is "repair or replace",> but you do have to call.>> I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static> foam corrode and crumble, etc...>> Harvey>>> On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:> > Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?> >> > I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.> >> > I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed> > to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and> > a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items> > and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.> >> > Sadly not surprised at anything these days,> > Dave> >> >> > On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:> >> Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog.  This is exactly the> >> kind of> >> damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were> >> stored in the old antistatic foam.> >>> >> <> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen> >>>> --KenWA2LBISent from one of my mobile devices


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

 

Individual responses to butyric acids vary... it's in US chocolate (highest in Hershey's I think), so Europeans have been known to comment that it smells like vomit to them. Not to me! I also have a drawer full of Craftsman screwdrivers and although there is a definite odor, I don't find it unpleasant.

At the risk of aggravating the thread drift, I have replaced the batteries in many of my infrequently-used test equipment with lithium AA cells (expiration dates up to 2035 from the current batch). There are C-cell plastic adapters that hold one AA cell, and D-cell adapters that take two in parallel. No more leaks :)


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

Eric Schumacher
 

Hi Ken

Here's a second vote for energizers and a bunch of thumbs down for Duracell regarding corrosion. The only good news about Duracell "corrosion" on cell contacts is that CLR cleaner makes it disappear and your contacts look like new. I put corrosion in quotes because actual metal damage occurs much later and the CLR and stiff brush easily removes all that white dust and green stuff. My real question is Why do people buy those things???
Eric WB6KCN

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ken, WA2LBI
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 9:19 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Beware of old AntiStatic foam

That old foam is awful stuff. I’ve had headphone head bands and ear pads
crumble to dust. I’ve also lost ICs that were pressed into the foam.
Foam-lined storage cases have damaged or destroyed stored items. Old
microphone inserts become dust. There are many other examples...

A few years ago, after many leaking batteries - some still new in the
package, I removed every Duracell battery from every device I own. I’ve
lost a number of flashlights, kid’s toys, remote controls, etc. The worst
is the damage done to my electronic test gear. I switched to Energizer and,
since then, have not had a single device device damaged by battery leakage.

The other item to check is the stick on feet used on so much equipment. As
we know, they turn to a slimy, sticky mess that also gets on the adjacent
surface and is difficult to remove. At the very least, over time, they
“migrate” from their original position and leave a slimy trail.

<rant off>

Ken
WA2LBI


On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen
--
Ken
WA2LBI

Sent from one of my mobile devices


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

SCMenasian
 

Ages ago, several of my Xcelite tools developed the whitish handle disease. I figured, at the time, that it
was fungus and applied my standard lo-tech fungus treatment - vinegar. It did the trick.


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

Harvey White
 

I've had the same white fuzz on tools as well.  In fact, my first Xcelite tool kit was odorous out of the box and I've seen the fuzz on a lot of stuff (Craftsman screwdriver, for instance).

On the batteries, these were bought at BJ's, had "DURACELL" plastered everywhere.

When I mentioned the "perfect until" date to the phone droid, I got no argument, just a check in the mail for a meter that had been ruined.  I'd be very surprised if these were fakes.  I do think they had a bad run of AAA batteries, and the AA ones leak when run dow to nothing (I think).

In the cases I have, the blue foam is toast, the gray foam is toast, and the white polystyrene foam is as good as it was on the day it was created.

Harvey

On 3/21/2021 2:49 PM, stevenhorii wrote:
I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:

https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen












Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

-
 

"Yes my TEAC X-3 just had a "belt melt", it is hard ti understand why they
can't be made in silicone rubber now. That should be practically eternal in
comparison to my lifespan...."

Small drive belts are now made of Kevlar and are bright orange colored.
I used to buy mine from Florida Belting in Orlando, Florida. Excellent
service, BTW. I repaired a ton of HP desktop calculators using their belts.

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:26 PM snapdiode via groups.io <snapdiode=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM, Bert Haskins wrote:
Yep they used something like this in drive belts also.

Yes my TEAC X-3 just had a "belt melt", it is hard ti understand why they
can't be made in silicone rubber now. That should be practically eternal in
comparison to my lifespan....






Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

-
 

Bruce Gentry said:

One reason polyurethane was so popular for drive rollers and belts is
it's traction. Many tape recorders used them because they could be
smaller and cheaper yet able to grip and carry the power. It is
certainly possible to find replacements that will fit, but often they
will slip under heavy load.

Years ago I talked to one of HP's calculator engineers in Oregon and he
told me that they had about given up on building a reliable card reader for
the HP-65 and similar calculators because of slippage, until they
discovered polyurethane. But it said that it gripped so well that they
could dip the magnetic cards in oil and the polyurethane rollers would
still feed them!

Unfortunately the rollers that HP used in all of their calculators have
all deteriorated with age.



On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 3:59 PM greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy=
verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

One reason polyurethane was so popular for drive rollers and belts is
it's traction. Many tape recorders used them because they could be
smaller and cheaper yet able to grip and carry the power. It is
certainly possible to find replacements that will fit, but often they
will slip under heavy load.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/21/21 14:26, snapdiode via groups.io wrote:
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM, Bert Haskins wrote:
Yep they used something like this in drive belts also.

Yes my TEAC X-3 just had a "belt melt", it is hard ti understand why
they can't be made in silicone rubber now. That should be practically
eternal in comparison to my lifespan....









Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

-
 

Steven said:

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

That butyrate plastic deteriorates into butyric acid and yes, I'm told
that that is what gives vomit it's nauseating smell. It's similar to, or
the same, compound found in milk that is going bad so human reaction to
that smell is thought to be a survival mechanism. I soak those old Xcelite
tools in full strength household ammonia and then scrub them with a brass
bristle brush or a tough nylon pot scrubber and that will remove the white
film on the tools. You may need to repeat the process a few times.
Surprisingly, even a brass bristle brush doesn't seem to harm or to scratch
up the plastic handles (YMMV!) I've cleaned several dozens of Xcelite
tools like this over the past 6 or 7 years and I've never found any sign of
damage by cleaning that way.

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:49 PM stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:

I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:


https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen

















Re: 7D15 internal trigger not working

Dan G
 

I just did a quick measurement on my 7D15, with the plug-in installed in a horizontal slot,
and being fed a 1 MHz 5 div p-p sine wave from a vertical amplifier. The 7D15 was set to
measure frequency, TRIGGER B selector set to TRIG SOURCE.

The 5 div signal from the vertical amplifier becomes a 840 mV p-p signal measured
at R117 with a 10X high-Z probe. It is symmetrical about 0V. Observing the signal
here will tell you the effect of the Q203/Q213/Q217 amplification stage, and you
should be able to see any contact resistance issues with cam switch contact
number 12.

R117 is readily accessible with the right mainframe cover removed if you install
the time base in Horizontal slot A, and the 7D15 in the Horizontal slot B.


I hope this helps,

dan


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

greenboxmaven
 

Polyethylene definately seems to be benign and long lasting.  With regard to Xcelite handles and other items, I had to spend my youth in the place many of those stinky plastics were developed and made. The entire town smelled like the plastic, it was not nice. In addition to stinking and getting covered with white crud, the plastics often shrink and warp as they age. One positive thing about those plastics was their feel and grip confort. Many vintage typewriters and teleprinters had keys made of them because they were easier on fingers after hours of typing.

   Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/21/21 14:49, stevenhorii wrote:
I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:

https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen











Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

greenboxmaven
 

One reason polyurethane was so popular for drive rollers and belts is it's traction. Many tape recorders used them because they could be smaller and cheaper yet able to grip and carry the power. It is certainly possible to find replacements that will fit, but often they will slip under heavy load.

    Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/21/21 14:26, snapdiode via groups.io wrote:
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM, Bert Haskins wrote:
Yep they used something like this in drive belts also.

Yes my TEAC X-3 just had a "belt melt", it is hard ti understand why they can't be made in silicone rubber now. That should be practically eternal in comparison to my lifespan....




Re: 7D15 internal trigger not working

Dan G
 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 01:26 PM, Steve Nossen wrote:

Measured the transistors and Q213 measures 30 ohms from C to E and E to C on
my SImpson 260. Much higher on a DVM but the same in both directions. Seems
leaky to me. Q203 measured more like a diode, conducts in one direction.
Q213 pins are connected to GND and +5V rails with very low value resistors, so
I would be suspicious of any in-circuit resistance measurements.

A non-invasive test of the basic health of these transistors is to
check the operating point voltages of Q203, Q213 and Q217, and compare
them against the expected values provided in schematic <1>. This check
should not need a signal applied to A20/B20, so the plug-in can be operated
in the vertical compartment for ease of access. (Unless, of course, you are
one of the luck few who have a nice 7000 plug-in extender.)

Also, did you remember to clean all attenuator cam switch contacts with
isopropyl alcohol? This would be the first order of business before
attacking the plug-in with a soldering iron.


dan


Re: 454 fireworks

Sean Turner
 

OK, I have the scope on the bench again for a closer look at all the components in the +75 supply. Obviously I haven't torn it apart to test out of circuit, but now that I tested it again, Q1197 seems to have an emitter-collector short. I don't *think* this would result from how it is connected. Am I missing something?

Looking at the mechanical bits, it looks to me like the power transformer has to be undone to get to nuts that hold the metal part that the pass transistors heat sink to.

Sean

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 03:43 PM, John wrote:


Sean: If Q1197 isn't s/c it's 99% likely the drive circuitry, which at least
is accessible!
John


Re: 7A16A high frequency compensation.

Albert Otten
 

Ah yes, sorry Max, you mentioned both arrows some posts back.
I mentioned calibration of the PG506 since when calibrating the 7A16A you also try to compensate for pulse shape of the PG506.

Albert


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

Dave Seiter
 

I have a number of plastic toy rail cars from the 40's (American Flyer, I believe) that were my fathers, and have a similar problem.  Either the plasticizer or mold release has resulted in white deposits (on both the plastic and metal parts) over the years that also smells like vomit.  Very hard to remove from the plastic.  I too have a set of Xcelite nut drivers that smell "weird".  Not like vomit, and there's no corrosion, but I like to let them air out before I use them.
-Dave

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 11:49:23 AM PDT, stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:



Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

Ken, WA2LBI
 

Those tool handles are another issue. I have a plastic fitted case for a
set of Xcelite nut drivers. They have quite an odor. I have to leave the
case open unless I'm traveling away from the workshop. I also have a number
of other tools, mostly screwdrivers, that have the same awful odor. I have
taken to inserting a block of wood in the toolboxes to keep the lids
slightly open so the odor can vent and I'm not blasted with a concentrated
"cloud" when I open the box.

Ken
WA2LBI

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:49 PM stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:

I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:


https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen

















Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

Dave Seiter
 

Now you have me worried- I have a number of foam-lined trays of PET/CBM-era ICs that I haven't looked at in years.  Fortunately, they are in very dry storage.  One of my "special" chips (a 40 column VIC chip) has been in a conductive rubber socket since the 70's, and I know it's still fine (just checked!)
-Dave

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 09:57:29 AM PDT, snapdiode via groups.io <snapdiode=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes I've gotten a dozen or so Commodore computer chips damaged that way, I just scraped off the residue with tweezers and hope that there isn't too much chemical residue left for damage to continue.


Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

stevenhorii
 

I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:

https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen













Re: Beware of old AntiStatic foam

Dave Seiter
 

A few years ago, I found a very nice set of lab glassware in a fitted case at an estate sale.  When I got home, half the foam had disintegrated into dust from just driving around, and the rest did when I touched it. At least it wasn't gooey!
-Dave

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 09:01:10 AM PDT, Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them.  Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog.  This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen









Re: Battery holder spring corrosion (was:Re: [TekScopes] Beware of old AntiStatic foam)

snapdiode
 

I think batteries are able to spit out chemicals from their seals as they age. I have this Radio Shack Model 100 portable computer that has extensive (almost not repairable) corrosion near the battery pack, but also has odd single pin corrosion clear across the PCB, the only reasonable explanation is a tiny droplet being spit out the battery seal. It's not just leaking like a slow seeping of fluid across a barrier, I'm guessing there's also times when gas pressure builds up, part of the seal gives, a droplet flies out, the pressure is relieved, the seal forms back, and the cycle slowly continues and might take another year for the next droplet.

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