Date   

Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

Mark Litwack
 

There was an FPGA logic analyzer called the "Open Bench Logic Sniffer" that would make a good multi-purpose trigger accessory for a scope by using its trigger out signal. Along with the usual bit matching, it had an advanced mode which had features found in the old HP 16500 series logic analyzer like 10 trigger terms, 2 range terms, 2 timers, and a 16-level state machine. It operated on up to 32 bits of input.

Unfortunately, it's not available anymore, but the schematics, FPGA Verilog code, and host code to control the advanced trigger are all available if someone wanted to use it as a starting point:

http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Open_Bench_Logic_Sniffer

The entry under "v3 Demon core in Verilog" has the details on the advanced triggering capabilities.

-mark


Re: Peter Keller book payments PayPal won't release

Tam Hanna
 

Esteemed quorum,

OK, apparently everyone misunderstands me at the moment. Tried to sort a simple catering (chestnuts for visiting drone airline manager) issue with my wife, ended up in a 2h discussion about cooking, chestnut farming, "tuut" (arab chestnut like fruit) farming, more cooking, inert gases for storing tuut and chestnuts, "tuut" importing and finally her going off like a MiG21 on ROMB mode even though her dread levels are high (please no recommendations re wife management, she is kept in check). All she wanted to know was whether said Drone dude eats Chestnuts.

So, welcome to the club. And yes, it is me - the older I get, the more unclear I become.


To clarify.

_/*Tam acts as INTERMEDIARY and COMMIS. This means: Tilman is waiting for money from Schlomo/Dromo/Omo. Tam pays for the book until Schlomo*/__/*_/*/Dromo/Omo*/_ eventually coughs up.*/_


To the Austrian: I have no connection to the author, and I do not even buy such a book for my own. I could sell you, but could not fulfull such a book to you even if I wanted to. But greet Vienna from me, lived there for many years.


However, I tried to set Peter up with a different publisher. Maybe, I have news to report here soon, but I cannot say anything yet...


All clear now?

Tam



--
With best regards
Tam HANNA

Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/


Re: SMD rework/repair. Was: Boston area elecronicsurplus.

Thomas Garson
 

Kerry,

Good info. I used an off the shelf controller purchased from Automation Direct, which worked very well, once I got the hardware properly configured. They have always had what I needed for reasonable prices.

I have put myself in the position where I can build a lot of the electronics I need, but time is always an issue. Often the DIY route takes more valuable time than I can budget in comparison to the cost of a carefully considered, available, off the shelf item.

Where my tools and software really come into play is when I'm constructing custom "one off" or "short run" items or I need something like a build/test fixture for electronics assemblies that I will be having to deal with in multiple instances. Example: I perform upgrades on classic analog audio studio consoles, each of which can have up to several dozen identical modules, all of which must be thoroughly qualified after rework prior to returning to customer. They all have different bus interfaces, including connectors and/or pin arrangements, even within a particular manufacturers catalogue. I can lay out a board and, with my light duty CNC mill, built by adding a 4 axis controller and smallish 3 phase spindle to a Newing-Hall commercial engraver, carve it from copper clad board, all in a few hours.

If I thought there was a viable market, I could design and build stuff like replacement power supply boards for Tek 5000 frames which could be redone using newer components and technology rather than fighting with replacing NLA can capacitors, etc. The problem there is that the market would mostly be folks like those on this list who love their old stuff and would rather take the time to do the repair and keep their 'scope as original as possible, not to mention limit the financial impact.

Thomas Garson
Aural Technology, Ashland, OR
By my calculation, the dynamic range of the universe is roughly 679dB,
which is approximately 225 bits, collected at a rate 1.714287514x10^23 sps.

On 11/30/20 5:16 PM, Kerry Burns wrote:
There was a DIY reflow PID controller published in the April/May 2020 Silicon Chip Magazine (https://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/Browse/Issues ).  I haven’t tried building it, but it seems like a reasonable design.
Kerry
From: <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Thomas Garson <tgarson@auraltek.com>
Reply to: <TekScopes@groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 11:27 am
To: <TekScopes@groups.io>
Subject: [TekScopes] SMD rework/repair. Was: Boston area elecronicsurplus.
I do SMD rework/repair, on occasion. I determined that a reflow oven was
frequently required as solder connection quality/failure were not
infrequent issues.
I built one based on a modified toaster-oven into which I fitted a PID
controller. It was a PITA to do, but is (now: See below.) much better
than the overpriced low quality available options.
Warning:
If rolling your own reflow oven is in the cards, make sure the
thermocouple is located in the upper area of the chamber and is naked.
Do not use an enclosed probe because the response time is too slow. I
did, and cooked the first board I used it on (fortunately not a
customers board). Perhaps the toaster-oven I chose had too much power
compared to a "factory" reflow oven. A lower power oven might have been
a good choice but I wanted one that had a large chamber. It might be a
good idea to determine the temperature rise and cooling rates of your
oven candidate prior to wiring up the heating elements, using fewer if
they are overkill. You might have to add a cooling fan to the enclosure
to assure proper cooling rate after the solder flow temperature is
reached. A lot of parts don't like to spend much time at the solder flow
temperature. If you use a convection oven, it might be possible to
modify the fan shroud to pull in outside (cooler) air.
For sure, there are high quality industrial grade reflow ovens
available, but at too steep a price for my budget.
Thomas Garson
Aural Technology, Ashland, OR
By my calculation, the dynamic range of the universe is roughly 679dB,
which is approximately 225 bits, collected at a rate 1.714287514x10^23 sps.
On 11/30/20 2:47 PM, Shirley Dulcey KE1L wrote:
Sadly, nearly all of those Boston area stores are gone. You-Do-It
Electronics is still open; it now has a significant selection of maker
stuff from Sparkfun and Velleman (and a few Adafruit items) along with the
usual TV repair parts, enclosures, cables, and so forth. Oddly, they
haven't embraced SMD technology at all; they don't even have rework
stations or solder paste. I guess their primary customer base doesn't do
any SMD repair; those boards are considered unrepairable at this point.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 5:03 PM stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:
I never did get to Meshna's place or B&F but I bought stuff from both via
mail order (the forerunner of online shopping). I think it was a WW
II passive infrared night vision unit I got from Meshna - I could be wrong.
Years later, I discovered that the technology for that wound up being a
fundamental patent that evolved into the first replacement for x-ray film;
storage phosphor plates that stored the x-ray "image" as electron
metastable states in a phosphor layer. Hitting the plate with a scanned
laser would push the electrons out of their metastable state and they would
drop down to ground state giving off light photons as they did so. A
photomultiplier would digitize the intensity of that emission thus was born
the photostimulable phosphor plate radiography system. The story is that
Kodak had the patents for the phosphor system but did not want to kill off
their x-ray film business, so they sold the patents (or licensed them) to
Fuji Medical (the Fuji film people). Fuji Medical produced the first
clinically used phosphor plate radiographic system. The use of x-ray film
declined very rapidly after that.
The last item I bought from B&F when I think it was just Frank Fink was
running the business - it was a militarized DEC PDP-11 built by Norden
Systems under license from DEC. I still have that thing - two two aircraft
avionics type boxes, a mess of cables, and the "control box". A bonus - all
the schematics. It was some version that I think had been used for software
and peripherals development as it runs on 115VAC 60Hz instead of 400Hz. It
runs or at least powers up with no smoke. The control box has two switches
on it - not the nice PDP-11 panel with all the flashing lights and
switches. It basically says "Run" and "Halt". That's it. I found the core
memory modules (they had been removed from the unit I bought) at a hamfest
(the one that used to be in Gaithersburg, MD) and installed them. If there
was any programming left in them, it didn't run so far as I know.
Interfaces are in the form of multipin mil-spec connectors - very expensive
to find mates for.
I used to go to Ron Baublitz's US Surplus in Baltimore. Four floors of a
huge amount of stuff. I think US Surplus may still be around, but they sold
off the building. It was across the street from the B&O Railroad museum. I
also went to Bid-Service in Asbury Park, NJ. It has transformed into a
business that sells used semiconductor fab equipment and are now in
Freehold. It is, I believe, run by the same family that ran the old
Bid-Service run by Bill Cusa. I first met Bill when I had him pick up a lot
for me that I won on a DoD surplus sale. I then drove down to his place to
pick the stuff up and he asked if I wanted to see the stuff he had in his
warehouse. He had started as a business selling used restaurant equipment,
but since he had the trucks, he branched out into the pickup and ship
business for bidders on DoD and GSA sales (hence the name). His initial
inventory came from the packer-shipper business. Often bidders would win a
lot, but only wanted one item. They would often tell Bill he could keep the
rest or at least offer it to him if he'd discount his pickup fee. As a
result, he had a large amount of stuff from those DoD sales. He hired some
guys (one of them his son) who quickly learned about test equipment and
they started bidding on local auctions and sales themselves. I once went in
on a bid with Bill on a complete radiographic/fluoroscopic system being
excessed from the West Point clinic. We won the lot, but my advice to him
was to sell it to a medical remarketer as we did not want the liability or
FDA issues. We still made money - that system was a top-end one that was
still being sold by the manufacturer.
There was another surplus dealer south of Baltimore. I don't remember the
business name, but the owner was Gary Green. Another huge place full of
stuff. You could get all manner of test equipment (yes, including Tek
scopes and plug-ins). Bargains were large mil-spec transit cases - the
large, weather-tight Hardigg ones. Any color you wanted as long as it was
olive drab. Not exactly true - there were white ones also. I was only there
once, but spent the whole day. I bought a Efratom rubidium frequency
standard - worked when I got it. I have not needed it in a while, but I
still have it.
When I think about it, I spent a LOT of weekends climbing around piles of
surplus, or walking through miles of storage racks full of stuff. I used to
have dreams about going to surplus stores and finding something exotic.
Always disappointed to wake up and find it had been a dream!
Steve H.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 4:17 PM Dick <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote:
There was also Electro-Craft on Dorchester Ave (in Dorchester).
Tons of NIB ARC-5 Receivers and Transmitters.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
"Dahchester" Boy, 1940-1966
________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Brad
Thompson <brad.thompsonaa1ip@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:13 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io>
Subject: OT: Boston-area electronicsurplus (was:Re: [TekScopes] Fair
Radio
Sales Lima Ohio)
tekscopegroup@miwww.com wrote on 11/30/2020 12:28 PM:
I recall walking Canal Street in lower Manhattan in 1976 during a
vacation trip with my parents.
<snip>
Hello--
Sometime in the early 1960 , my roommate and I hitchhiked from Boston to
his home near Suffern, NY-- his goal was to see his girl friend, and my
goal was
to visit Radio Row in NYC. I didn't have much spare cash and I don't
recall buying
anything <:. I do recall visiting Barry Radio at 512 Broadway, IIRC.
Construction
of the World Trade Center was on the horizon and the surplus stores were
beginning to close.
Fast-forward to the late 1960s-- I had graduated from college and had a
job in
Bedford, MA and a little more spare cash. On a typical Saturday, I could
drive
into Cambridge and visit Heffron's surplus junk yard. From there, I'd
head north to Rte. 128 and stop in Wakefield to shop at Poly-Paks ("We
bot <sic> thousands,
no time to test!") (*)
From there, Meshna's surplus in Lynn was always worth a stop, and on
one occasion
I was invited to visit the warehouse's basement-- filled with
boxes of surplus stacked from floor to ceiling and threaded
with shoulder-wide paths (think, 'mouse trails through a meadow').
There's still gas in the tank and cash in my wallet, and B+F Electronics
near Salem (?)
was my next stop. (B + F were Pete (?) Boniface and Frank Fink).
Finally, there was a four-story brick warehouse near Newburyport. MA,
which wouldstill had glass in most of its windows. On one occasion,
I reached into a box of miscellaneous parts and pulled out a skinny white
cylindrical object. Closer investigation revealed the remainder of the
pigeon skeleton.
Time to go home.
There were a few conventional electronics shops that sometimes offered
surplus
parts-- Abbott Electronics in Woburn, and a shop that moved into Malden
from Atlantic Avenue in downtown Boston. Radio Shack's store on
Commonwealth
Avenue could offer an occasional bargain.
Further out in the suburbs, You-Do-It electronics sold little in the way
of surplus
but was the go-to site for unmolested components. Herbert Gordon (W1IBY
(SK))
sold used ham gear and surplus in Harvard, MA, and offered opinions.
I apologize for omissions and errors of location-- fifty years of recall
imposes a layer of haze on some memories.
73--
Brad AA1IP
(*) In practice, it was possible to buy functional components there, but
sorting through a batch of Transitron rejects and testing them
was very educational.


Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

Harvey White
 

Thank you.

Many years ago, I was working on TTL stuff with a 513D scope.  I needed to look at multiple traces on a somewhat limited scope.  I took the trigger output (I think), reduced it to a TTL pulse per sweep, ran that to a binary counter, then to an 8 to 1 multiplexer.  The output of that multiplexer drove a common base summer that used the 4,2 and 1 outputs from the counter as 8,4 and 2 inputs to a homemade (crude!) D/A converter with the multiplex output going to the 1 input on that A/D.

Essentially, I got 8 traces time multiplexed onto 1 trace. Worked for TTL only, but that's what I needed.

Harvey

On 12/4/2020 10:58 AM, Tony Fleming wrote:
Harvey I know this isn't the place to thank you for helping everyone, but I
wish you Happy Holidays and lots of health & love!
And thanks for helping me with my Tektronix scope!!!
I also like to wish you all Happy Holidays and best 2021!
Let's all love each other!
Let's find common ideas and be willing to listen to others!
Tony

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:46 AM Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

That or a CPLD, which has less capability and less cost. They're easier
to use if you're making your own boards, but you'll need a programmer,
so additional cost. Remember that while a CPLD has non volatile memory
for the configuration, most FPGAs don't. That should be included on the
development board, and if you're lucky, so will the programmer. Typical
FPGA downloads a pass through program into the FPGA, uses it to program
the memory, then programs the FPGA from the external memory. That
reprogramming is automatic (or can be) when power is applied to the board.

You'll want to program in either VHDL or Verilog, although I personally
prefer VHDL.

A critical part of the design is that regardless of CPLD or FPGA, the
I/O voltages are ONLY 3.3 volts, and you *must* level translate. There
are chips good for that, though, and you only need one way.

An arduino, touchscreen display, programming, and some sort of interface
to the CPLD/FPGA would set up triggering conditions. Do note that the
FPGA can support a more complex (I2C or SPI) interface, and THAT needs
to be level translated too.

Nice project.

The simpler design would be some dipswitches, 74LS86, 74LS30. One switch
for 1/0, one switch for "don't care". But where'd be the fun in that?

Harvey


On 12/4/2020 9:30 AM, toby@telegraphics.com.au wrote:
On 2020-12-04 2:31 a.m., Jeff Dutky wrote:
Okay, this is all in line with what I've been thinking about: building
a little box that can raise a TTL output on various conditions like a
specific counter bit, or having a 16 bit input value between two selected
values, or when certain bits are set or cleared, etc. It seems like this
would make all kinds of things visible on a simple analog scope at
relatively little cost (assuming that you don't want to do the triggering
at clock rates much above a few tens of MHz, of course).
I would consider a tiny FPGA rather than discrete TTL, which would give
you thousands of gates of logic reconfigurable without soldering. You
can get a suitable dev board for ~ $20.


One of the things that I was trying to do with these scopes, before I
got side tracked having to fix them, was to reverse engineer the digital
interface to a gas plasma display in an old laptop. Getting anything more
than a very general look at the display signals was very challenging,
especially since I didn't understand most of the scope's features very
well, but also because I just wasn't thinking clearly about how to trigger
the scope and one what. After working on these scopes for the past month I
think I'm beginning to get a better feel for what they can do and how they
should be used.
-- Jeff Dutky













Re: I give up.

-
 

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

Paying with paypal from credit card is simpler, but doesn't work in this
case, so you're supposed to do the next simplest thing, which is top up via
wire transfer and then pay from balance. All this hacked companies paranoia
is seriously too much, and I say that as a cyber security expert who has
been professionally in IT for 20 years. I've seen and responded to
countless hacks and I know good security awareness is necessary. You're
talking about your bank and about paypal. If either of them get hacked then
you have much larger problems than whether or not you have the convenience
of being a git towards Dennis. Have it from the horse's mouth: you're not
being aware of potential problems, you're being unreasonably paranoid, and
you're cargo-culting security obviously without understanding any of it.
Stop it and just pay Dennis without dragging your feet.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:58 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit card,
then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't
linked a
bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A credit
card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse if
things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to worry
about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data
stolen.
The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer
you
are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <
cheater00social@gmail.com
wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and
then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately.
Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your
head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but
there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to
yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so
everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I
know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as
well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for
that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have
endured
in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and
sense
of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it
manageable
for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then
by
all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent
from
my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device





















Re: Peter Keller book payments PayPal won't release

-
 

I don't think that anyone "wanted" any such thing. Tam merely offered to
buy some of the extra copies so that Dennis wouldn't be stuck with them.
But on the other hand, it is the author's intent to sell as many copies as
possible so Tam's offer is consistent with that.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:12 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

So let me get this clear, in case someone doesn't come through, you want to
buy off the extra books, and hoard them? This re-print was meant for people
who actually want to read those books. It wasn't meant for the collectors
who ramped up the originals to insane prices.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:55 AM Tam Hanna <tamhan@tamoggemon.com> wrote:

Hello Damian,

sorry, but I do not sell these at all.


I only wanted to offer my services as a "bank" to ease Tilmans work load.


Tam

--
- - - - -
With best regards
Tam HANNA

Enjoy electronics? Join 13500 followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics
Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/











Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

Tony Fleming
 

Harvey I know this isn't the place to thank you for helping everyone, but I
wish you Happy Holidays and lots of health & love!
And thanks for helping me with my Tektronix scope!!!
I also like to wish you all Happy Holidays and best 2021!
Let's all love each other!
Let's find common ideas and be willing to listen to others!
Tony

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:46 AM Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

That or a CPLD, which has less capability and less cost. They're easier
to use if you're making your own boards, but you'll need a programmer,
so additional cost. Remember that while a CPLD has non volatile memory
for the configuration, most FPGAs don't. That should be included on the
development board, and if you're lucky, so will the programmer. Typical
FPGA downloads a pass through program into the FPGA, uses it to program
the memory, then programs the FPGA from the external memory. That
reprogramming is automatic (or can be) when power is applied to the board.

You'll want to program in either VHDL or Verilog, although I personally
prefer VHDL.

A critical part of the design is that regardless of CPLD or FPGA, the
I/O voltages are ONLY 3.3 volts, and you *must* level translate. There
are chips good for that, though, and you only need one way.

An arduino, touchscreen display, programming, and some sort of interface
to the CPLD/FPGA would set up triggering conditions. Do note that the
FPGA can support a more complex (I2C or SPI) interface, and THAT needs
to be level translated too.

Nice project.

The simpler design would be some dipswitches, 74LS86, 74LS30. One switch
for 1/0, one switch for "don't care". But where'd be the fun in that?

Harvey


On 12/4/2020 9:30 AM, toby@telegraphics.com.au wrote:
On 2020-12-04 2:31 a.m., Jeff Dutky wrote:
Okay, this is all in line with what I've been thinking about: building
a little box that can raise a TTL output on various conditions like a
specific counter bit, or having a 16 bit input value between two selected
values, or when certain bits are set or cleared, etc. It seems like this
would make all kinds of things visible on a simple analog scope at
relatively little cost (assuming that you don't want to do the triggering
at clock rates much above a few tens of MHz, of course).
I would consider a tiny FPGA rather than discrete TTL, which would give
you thousands of gates of logic reconfigurable without soldering. You
can get a suitable dev board for ~ $20.


One of the things that I was trying to do with these scopes, before I
got side tracked having to fix them, was to reverse engineer the digital
interface to a gas plasma display in an old laptop. Getting anything more
than a very general look at the display signals was very challenging,
especially since I didn't understand most of the scope's features very
well, but also because I just wasn't thinking clearly about how to trigger
the scope and one what. After working on these scopes for the past month I
think I'm beginning to get a better feel for what they can do and how they
should be used.

-- Jeff Dutky













Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

Tom Gardner
 

On 04/12/20 14:30, toby@telegraphics.com.au wrote:
On 2020-12-04 2:31 a.m., Jeff Dutky wrote:
Okay, this is all in line with what I've been thinking about: building a little box that can raise a TTL output on various conditions like a specific counter bit, or having a 16 bit input value between two selected values, or when certain bits are set or cleared, etc. It seems like this would make all kinds of things visible on a simple analog scope at relatively little cost (assuming that you don't want to do the triggering at clock rates much above a few tens of MHz, of course).
I would consider a tiny FPGA rather than discrete TTL, which would give
you thousands of gates of logic reconfigurable without soldering. You
can get a suitable dev board for ~ $20.
That can work, but there is a steep learning curve w.r.t. both the HDL and the toochain.

A logic analyser is simpler, cheaper, less to implement. Use both hammers and screwdrivers :)


Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

Harvey White
 

That or a CPLD, which has less capability and less cost.  They're easier to use if you're making your own boards, but you'll need a programmer, so additional cost.  Remember that while a CPLD has non volatile memory for the configuration, most FPGAs don't.  That should be included on the development board, and if you're lucky, so will the programmer.  Typical FPGA downloads a pass through program into the FPGA, uses it to program the memory, then programs the FPGA from the external memory.  That reprogramming is automatic (or can be) when power is applied to the board.

You'll want to program in either VHDL or Verilog, although I personally prefer VHDL.

A critical part of the design is that regardless of CPLD or FPGA, the I/O voltages are ONLY 3.3 volts, and you *must* level translate.  There are chips good for that, though, and you only need one way.

An arduino, touchscreen display, programming, and some sort of interface to the CPLD/FPGA would set up triggering conditions.  Do note that the FPGA can support a more complex (I2C or SPI) interface, and THAT needs to be level translated too.

Nice project.

The simpler design would be some dipswitches, 74LS86, 74LS30. One switch for 1/0, one switch for "don't care".  But where'd be the fun in that?

Harvey

On 12/4/2020 9:30 AM, toby@telegraphics.com.au wrote:
On 2020-12-04 2:31 a.m., Jeff Dutky wrote:
Okay, this is all in line with what I've been thinking about: building a little box that can raise a TTL output on various conditions like a specific counter bit, or having a 16 bit input value between two selected values, or when certain bits are set or cleared, etc. It seems like this would make all kinds of things visible on a simple analog scope at relatively little cost (assuming that you don't want to do the triggering at clock rates much above a few tens of MHz, of course).
I would consider a tiny FPGA rather than discrete TTL, which would give
you thousands of gates of logic reconfigurable without soldering. You
can get a suitable dev board for ~ $20.


One of the things that I was trying to do with these scopes, before I got side tracked having to fix them, was to reverse engineer the digital interface to a gas plasma display in an old laptop. Getting anything more than a very general look at the display signals was very challenging, especially since I didn't understand most of the scope's features very well, but also because I just wasn't thinking clearly about how to trigger the scope and one what. After working on these scopes for the past month I think I'm beginning to get a better feel for what they can do and how they should be used.

-- Jeff Dutky








Re: Peter Keller book payments PayPal won't release

 

OK, what you're saying wasn't explicit, but if that's the case, then never
mind - sorry for the confusion

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:27 PM Colin Herbert via groups.io <colingherbert=
blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I think you've got Tam all wrong. He is suggesting that if Dennis cannot
get the money from people that have requested the book, he will pay Dennis
for ten books that will ultimately go to the recipients, when they get a
method to pay Dennis. It is simply, if I'm understanding this correctly and
I think I am, that Tam is prepared to help out with Dennis' money-flow
situation, in that he doesn't have the money to give to the author for
books that he hasn't had payment from the ultimate recipient. Tam is doing
this out of the kindness of his heart and soul, not out of any selfish,
money-grabbing intent, as you seem to be suggesting.
Colin.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
cheater cheater
Sent: 04 December 2020 14:12
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Peter Keller book payments PayPal won't release

So let me get this clear, in case someone doesn't come through, you want to
buy off the extra books, and hoard them? This re-print was meant for people
who actually want to read those books. It wasn't meant for the collectors
who ramped up the originals to insane prices.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:55 AM Tam Hanna <tamhan@tamoggemon.com> wrote:

Hello Damian,

sorry, but I do not sell these at all.


I only wanted to offer my services as a "bank" to ease Tilmans work load.


Tam

--
- - - - -
With best regards
Tam HANNA

Enjoy electronics? Join 13500 followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics
Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/

















Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

toby@...
 

On 2020-12-04 2:31 a.m., Jeff Dutky wrote:
Okay, this is all in line with what I've been thinking about: building a little box that can raise a TTL output on various conditions like a specific counter bit, or having a 16 bit input value between two selected values, or when certain bits are set or cleared, etc. It seems like this would make all kinds of things visible on a simple analog scope at relatively little cost (assuming that you don't want to do the triggering at clock rates much above a few tens of MHz, of course).
I would consider a tiny FPGA rather than discrete TTL, which would give
you thousands of gates of logic reconfigurable without soldering. You
can get a suitable dev board for ~ $20.


One of the things that I was trying to do with these scopes, before I got side tracked having to fix them, was to reverse engineer the digital interface to a gas plasma display in an old laptop. Getting anything more than a very general look at the display signals was very challenging, especially since I didn't understand most of the scope's features very well, but also because I just wasn't thinking clearly about how to trigger the scope and one what. After working on these scopes for the past month I think I'm beginning to get a better feel for what they can do and how they should be used.

-- Jeff Dutky





Re: Peter Keller book payments PayPal won't release

Colin Herbert
 

I think you've got Tam all wrong. He is suggesting that if Dennis cannot get the money from people that have requested the book, he will pay Dennis for ten books that will ultimately go to the recipients, when they get a method to pay Dennis. It is simply, if I'm understanding this correctly and I think I am, that Tam is prepared to help out with Dennis' money-flow situation, in that he doesn't have the money to give to the author for books that he hasn't had payment from the ultimate recipient. Tam is doing this out of the kindness of his heart and soul, not out of any selfish, money-grabbing intent, as you seem to be suggesting.
Colin.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of cheater cheater
Sent: 04 December 2020 14:12
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Peter Keller book payments PayPal won't release

So let me get this clear, in case someone doesn't come through, you want to
buy off the extra books, and hoard them? This re-print was meant for people
who actually want to read those books. It wasn't meant for the collectors
who ramped up the originals to insane prices.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:55 AM Tam Hanna <tamhan@tamoggemon.com> wrote:

Hello Damian,

sorry, but I do not sell these at all.


I only wanted to offer my services as a "bank" to ease Tilmans work load.


Tam

--
- - - - -
With best regards
Tam HANNA

Enjoy electronics? Join 13500 followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics
Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/







Re: Peter Keller book payments PayPal won't release

 

So let me get this clear, in case someone doesn't come through, you want to
buy off the extra books, and hoard them? This re-print was meant for people
who actually want to read those books. It wasn't meant for the collectors
who ramped up the originals to insane prices.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:55 AM Tam Hanna <tamhan@tamoggemon.com> wrote:

Hello Damian,

sorry, but I do not sell these at all.


I only wanted to offer my services as a "bank" to ease Tilmans work load.


Tam

--
- - - - -
With best regards
Tam HANNA

Enjoy electronics? Join 13500 followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics
Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/







Re: I give up.

 

Paying with paypal from credit card is simpler, but doesn't work in this
case, so you're supposed to do the next simplest thing, which is top up via
wire transfer and then pay from balance. All this hacked companies paranoia
is seriously too much, and I say that as a cyber security expert who has
been professionally in IT for 20 years. I've seen and responded to
countless hacks and I know good security awareness is necessary. You're
talking about your bank and about paypal. If either of them get hacked then
you have much larger problems than whether or not you have the convenience
of being a git towards Dennis. Have it from the horse's mouth: you're not
being aware of potential problems, you're being unreasonably paranoid, and
you're cargo-culting security obviously without understanding any of it.
Stop it and just pay Dennis without dragging your feet.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:58 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit card,
then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't linked a
bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A credit
card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse if
things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to worry
about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data stolen.
The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer you
are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com
wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately. Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to
yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I
know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as
well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for
that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured
in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and
sense
of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable
for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by
all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from
my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

















Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

 

Tom,

I have been considering just such an acquisition, but, until I can move my workshop to a larger space (that's on the list of things to do) there is no room for a computer, which has proven quite limiting on more than one occasion. Right now, however, I'm working within the confines of what I have to hand, and what would have been contemporary to the machine I'm trying to investigate (this is a hobby, and that's part of the fun).

My actual goal is to get a shiny, new DSO with an LA option (I'm planning to get a Siglent 1204), but that won't be till some time next year.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Tek 2236 and the CTM Board

 

Ah, I figured it out: by prying the right hand side of the extension away from the plunger, and then levering the left hand side with the blade of the spudger, and applying more force than I had thought safe, the extension lets go quite suddenly (and a bit distressingly). After you've done it a few times, however, you get used to the amount of force needed, and the proper angle to apply with the spudger. A diagram in the service manual would have been very helpful.

My apologies to Leo if that was what he was telling me to do. I misunderstood because of the use of the term "knob" rather than "button". I'm a terribly literal-minded sort, and it leads me astray all too often.

Next problem was removing the power supply cover, but that was merely a matter of find all the screws that held it in place (two recessed and one pan-head torx on the back, two pan-head torx on the bottom, one that holds the HV protective plastic cover in place, and one on the side), then wrestling it out of the case in close quarters (probably a lot easier if you've removed a the CTM board and the alternate sweep board). We will see if I'm able to get it back in place without first removing the CTM and alternate sweep boards (I kind of doubt it).

Finally it was a simple matter to remove the fan, peel off the hub sticker, and put some light oil on the end of the bearing shaft. We will see if that cures the loud fan noise, or if I have to order a new fan (a Matsushita PANAFLOW DC burshless, model FBP-06A12L, easily and inexpensively obtainable from at least one popular electronics retail site).

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

Tom Gardner
 

Consider buying one of the £20 logic analysers that use a USB
interface and the PC's screen. That (8 bits, 24MS/s) should be more
than enough to debug that kind of logic.

Key advantages of an LA are complex triggering and filtering, so you
only see the interesting information, not all the clutter.

On 04/12/2020, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, this is all in line with what I've been thinking about: building a
little box that can raise a TTL output on various conditions like a specific
counter bit, or having a 16 bit input value between two selected values, or
when certain bits are set or cleared, etc. It seems like this would make all
kinds of things visible on a simple analog scope at relatively little cost
(assuming that you don't want to do the triggering at clock rates much above
a few tens of MHz, of course).

One of the things that I was trying to do with these scopes, before I got
side tracked having to fix them, was to reverse engineer the digital
interface to a gas plasma display in an old laptop. Getting anything more
than a very general look at the display signals was very challenging,
especially since I didn't understand most of the scope's features very well,
but also because I just wasn't thinking clearly about how to trigger the
scope and one what. After working on these scopes for the past month I think
I'm beginning to get a better feel for what they can do and how they should
be used.

-- Jeff Dutky






Re: Tek 2236 and the CTM Board

 

Leo,

there is no knob here (or, rather, the was a knob in step 1, but I got that out without any trouble). These are pushbuttons that have a short extension that pokes through the front panel. The extensions are clipped around the pushbutton's plunger. It's clear that they can be separated somehow, but not clear how that can be achieved.

I have created this album https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=257515 (titled "2236 CTM Pushbuttons Disassembly") to illustrate the process and the issue.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Tek 2236 and the CTM Board

satbeginner
 

Nope, put the screwdriver vertical behind the side of the knob, push down on the screwdriver and use it as a wedge to push the knob towards you.

Away from the front, in the same direction as the axle.

Better to use two screwdrivers to keep everything in line.

If you push down on the knob itself you will break things....

Saludos,

Leo


Re: Historical Analog Scope Triggering Techniques

 

Okay, this is all in line with what I've been thinking about: building a little box that can raise a TTL output on various conditions like a specific counter bit, or having a 16 bit input value between two selected values, or when certain bits are set or cleared, etc. It seems like this would make all kinds of things visible on a simple analog scope at relatively little cost (assuming that you don't want to do the triggering at clock rates much above a few tens of MHz, of course).

One of the things that I was trying to do with these scopes, before I got side tracked having to fix them, was to reverse engineer the digital interface to a gas plasma display in an old laptop. Getting anything more than a very general look at the display signals was very challenging, especially since I didn't understand most of the scope's features very well, but also because I just wasn't thinking clearly about how to trigger the scope and one what. After working on these scopes for the past month I think I'm beginning to get a better feel for what they can do and how they should be used.

-- Jeff Dutky

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