Date   

Re: TM506

Ke-Fong Lin
 

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/250733/1?p=Created,,,100,2,0,0
Double check your service manual.
For my TM503, the 120V vs 240V selection is done by choosing the jumper of appropriate color (red or brown as for your TM506).
There is also an extra header to store the unused jumper, just like here (the top one for your TM506).
And then a set of 3 headers to select the low, middle (230V), and high.


Re: Looking for TDS6804B pictures or TDS6/7000B series acquisition boards, bad or good

guy_ellis_1964
 

Hi Flyte,

I've got a TDS6604 here that I'm working on - I'd be interested to know the differences in the Acq. boards.
Mine has a trigger problem and SPC fail.
Maybe we can share notes?

Regards,
- Guy.


Re: Triggering problem with TDS6604

guy_ellis_1964
 

Hi Jim,

Did you ever solve the trigger problem with your TDS6604, as I got one here with the same symptom?

All of the diagnostic tests pass except SPC.

This unit had a flat NOVRAM battery - not sure if that is related.

Regards,
- Guy.


Re: TM506

Stephen
 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 01:32 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:


Be sure the input voltage selector jumpers inside the TM506 are set to the
proper voltage range your electric utility provides. If they do not match your
power line voltage the three AC voltages and the three DC voltages of the
TM506 will be ~15% higher or lower than they should be.

Dennis Tillman W7pF
Yes Dennis, I get that.
But this is what I have inside the unit, and nowhere is it specified, inside the unit or in the manual, what does what....
My line voltage is >= to 230VAC (Close to 235VAC). Apparently this unit is set for 220V.
I don’t want to change anything until I’m sure I’m doing the right thing.

This is how it’s set at the moment:
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/250733/0?p=Created,,,100,2,0,0
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/250733/2?p=Created,,,100,2,0,0
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/250733/1?p=Created,,,100,2,0,0


Re: 11A16 Problem

Steve C
 

This may be, but there is no flashing of the CH1 or CH2 LEDs. I don't have any fault code from the plug-in, just what I see on the DSA602 screen: "Comm Test in Progress" and then "Illegal self test cmd". This may be one of the initial steps the communication is set up, before any self test starts.

Thanks,
Steve


Re: 11A16 Problem

Egge Siert
 

Hi Steve,

I never experienced such a problem with the 11000 Series (and yes I have a 11A16). It looks to me as a problem with the Kernel Tests. See page 3-2 of the Service Manual.

Greetings,

Egge Siert


Re: 485 Cordwrap Feet

 

Hi Jim,
That is the official IEC connector recommended for switching mode power supplies. See examples of other official IEC 60320 shapes (there are at least 15 different ones) each specified for a different purpose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320
Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Ford
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:38 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 485 Cordwrap Feet

Funny you should mention those IEC power connectors, Dennis, as I just received a new wired router (opting for security, reliability, and speed for my 3 computers that stay in one place) today, and what do you know, it did not have an IEC connector on it. Instead, the power cable had a
"3 merged circles" (kind of like 3/5 of the Olympics symbol) connector.
Not sure why.

Now, my Tek 5103N/D10 and 7603 scopes have attached power cables, and every other piece of gear (most of it Tek or HP) I own except for the HP 400E AC voltmeter (pre-1970, no doubt) has a detachable cord with an IEC connector on it. No, wait, that's not true. I noticed some time ago that the 3 power supplies I own, an HP 6111A, an Elenco Precision XP-581, and a Trygon TL8-3, all have attached cords. I wonder why that is...

Another oddball is my Tek TLA711 mainframe. While it has an IEC male connector on the back of it, there is an extra rib below the GND pin, so a normal IEC female will not mate with it. Until you chop a groove into it with a utility knife, that is. I don't know why Tek did that. Maybe if you fill up the chassis with a thousand channels worth of logic analysis it draws so much current you need an extra beefy power cable (with a special notched IEC connector) hooked up to a 100 A circuit?

Speaking of extra beefy power cords, I have one I got from Mercury Transformers at the L.A. Guitar Amp Show some years ago. They were giving away these slick, fat, red cables. I'm not going to hook that up to just anything; no, that one is being saved for something special!
Seems like I have dozens of normal ones, though. The ones with the right angle IEC connectors come in handy when using a deep piece of equipment like a 7904 up close to the wall. But they always seem to point the wrong way, as do GPIB connectors. ;)

Rambling again - sorry.

Jim Ford

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dennis Tillman W7pF" <@Dennis_Tillman_W7pF>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: 7/22/2020 11:39:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 485 Cordwrap Feet

Hi Jeff,
It was not unusual for the design engineers at Tek to pay attention to
product details (known as Human Factors Engineering in those days) just
like this one. This was one of the things that distinguished Tek from
many other companies. The 485 was a portable scope which meant things
like a power cord had to have a secure place to be while it was being
moved from one place to another. The logical way to carry the scope was
by the handle with the scope in an upright position so there would need
to be feet on the rear of the scope. Why not kill two birds with one
stone and design a foot that would also secure the power cord?

There are some things that the mechanical engineers at Tek never seem
to be satisfied with and cord wraps are one of them. The cord wrap
evolved constantly. It was almost as if the mechanical engineers saw
each new portable scope as an opportunity to improve on the design of
the previous instrument. My 453 (the 454 and 453 were the original
portables Tek designed to meet the needs of the IBM Field Engineers)
had fairly simple rear feet which the power cord could be wrapped
around. I think there was a chance the power cord could become undone
from around the rear feet while travelling with the 453 scope. By the
time the 485 appeared the cord wrap foot was just about optimal: It
holds the power cord securely, and it communicates to the user, by its
unusual shape, what its intended purpose is, without the need for any further explanation.

In other words its unusual shape tells you what it does. Donald Norman
in his book "The Psychology of Everyday Things" coined the term "affordances"
for the properties of objects which show users the actions they can take.
Users should be able to perceive affordances without having to consider
how to use the items. A simple example we all encounter every day is
the handle on a door leading into or out of a store. The shape of the
handle should communicate to you whether you should push or pull it to open the door.
Instead most of them are so poorly designed that it is necessary to
include a sign saying "Push" or "Pull".

With the advent of the IEC power connector standard in 1970 many
instruments gradually started using power cords that could be unplugged
from the instrument which created a totally different problem of what
to do with the proliferation of these power cords now that they are
everywhere. Somehow we all end up with more of them than we can possibly use.

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Jeff Davis
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:30 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] 485 Cordwrap Feet

I had a customer approach me about developing a replacement cord wrap
foot for the Tektronix 485. He sent me one of his that was mostly
intact - but it led to some questions that I'm now posing to the group.

The 485 service manual shows that the cord wrap looks a lot like the
cord wraps on a 2465, i.e. two assemblies, one right side and one left
side, that extend from the bottom to the top, and the cord wraps around
the two of them.

On the other hand, what my customer sent to me looked more like a foot
from a 465, i.e. 4 pieces, one on each corner, with flanges to hold the
cord. The cord wraps around the four pieces located at each corner.

Did early and later versions of the 485 have different cord wraps? If
so, are they interchangeable? I can only find one version of the
service manual, and it shows the 2465-like cord wraps.

Would greatly appreciate anyone who could shed light on this mystery.

Thanks,
Jeff / N0DY
www.n0dy.com





--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: 485 Cordwrap Feet

Jim Ford
 

Funny you should mention those IEC power connectors, Dennis, as I just received a new wired router (opting for security, reliability, and speed for my 3 computers that stay in one place) today, and what do you know, it did not have an IEC connector on it. Instead, the power cable had a "3 merged circles" (kind of like 3/5 of the Olympics symbol) connector.
Not sure why.

Now, my Tek 5103N/D10 and 7603 scopes have attached power cables, and every other piece of gear (most of it Tek or HP) I own except for the HP 400E AC voltmeter (pre-1970, no doubt) has a detachable cord with an IEC connector on it. No, wait, that's not true. I noticed some time ago that the 3 power supplies I own, an HP 6111A, an Elenco Precision XP-581, and a Trygon TL8-3, all have attached cords. I wonder why that is...

Another oddball is my Tek TLA711 mainframe. While it has an IEC male connector on the back of it, there is an extra rib below the GND pin, so a normal IEC female will not mate with it. Until you chop a groove into it with a utility knife, that is. I don't know why Tek did that. Maybe if you fill up the chassis with a thousand channels worth of logic analysis it draws so much current you need an extra beefy power cable (with a special notched IEC connector) hooked up to a 100 A circuit?

Speaking of extra beefy power cords, I have one I got from Mercury Transformers at the L.A. Guitar Amp Show some years ago. They were giving away these slick, fat, red cables. I'm not going to hook that up to just anything; no, that one is being saved for something special!
Seems like I have dozens of normal ones, though. The ones with the right angle IEC connectors come in handy when using a deep piece of equipment like a 7904 up close to the wall. But they always seem to point the wrong way, as do GPIB connectors. ;)

Rambling again - sorry.

Jim Ford

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dennis Tillman W7pF" <@Dennis_Tillman_W7pF>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: 7/22/2020 11:39:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 485 Cordwrap Feet

Hi Jeff,
It was not unusual for the design engineers at Tek to pay attention to
product details (known as Human Factors Engineering in those days) just like
this one. This was one of the things that distinguished Tek from many other
companies. The 485 was a portable scope which meant things like a power cord
had to have a secure place to be while it was being moved from one place to
another. The logical way to carry the scope was by the handle with the scope
in an upright position so there would need to be feet on the rear of the
scope. Why not kill two birds with one stone and design a foot that would
also secure the power cord?

There are some things that the mechanical engineers at Tek never seem to be
satisfied with and cord wraps are one of them. The cord wrap evolved
constantly. It was almost as if the mechanical engineers saw each new
portable scope as an opportunity to improve on the design of the previous
instrument. My 453 (the 454 and 453 were the original portables Tek designed
to meet the needs of the IBM Field Engineers) had fairly simple rear feet
which the power cord could be wrapped around. I think there was a chance the
power cord could become undone from around the rear feet while travelling
with the 453 scope. By the time the 485 appeared the cord wrap foot was just
about optimal: It holds the power cord securely, and it communicates to the
user, by its unusual shape, what its intended purpose is, without the need
for any further explanation.

In other words its unusual shape tells you what it does. Donald Norman in
his book "The Psychology of Everyday Things" coined the term "affordances"
for the properties of objects which show users the actions they can take.
Users should be able to perceive affordances without having to consider how
to use the items. A simple example we all encounter every day is the handle
on a door leading into or out of a store. The shape of the handle should
communicate to you whether you should push or pull it to open the door.
Instead most of them are so poorly designed that it is necessary to include
a sign saying "Push" or "Pull".

With the advent of the IEC power connector standard in 1970 many instruments
gradually started using power cords that could be unplugged from the
instrument which created a totally different problem of what to do with the
proliferation of these power cords now that they are everywhere. Somehow we
all end up with more of them than we can possibly use.

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeff
Davis
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:30 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] 485 Cordwrap Feet

I had a customer approach me about developing a replacement cord wrap foot
for the Tektronix 485. He sent me one of his that was mostly intact - but it
led to some questions that I'm now posing to the group.

The 485 service manual shows that the cord wrap looks a lot like the cord
wraps on a 2465, i.e. two assemblies, one right side and one left side, that
extend from the bottom to the top, and the cord wraps around the two of
them.

On the other hand, what my customer sent to me looked more like a foot from
a 465, i.e. 4 pieces, one on each corner, with flanges to hold the cord. The
cord wraps around the four pieces located at each corner.

Did early and later versions of the 485 have different cord wraps? If so,
are they interchangeable? I can only find one version of the service manual,
and it shows the 2465-like cord wraps.

Would greatly appreciate anyone who could shed light on this mystery.

Thanks,
Jeff / N0DY
www.n0dy.com





--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator



Re: TM506

Harvey White
 

Not a problem.  Been doing something like this for a while, so I know where some bodies are buried.  If you haven't, then you're still learning that part of it.  Connector pins have a maximum rated current, so paralleling them can be a good design feature. You can see that in some designs.

Harvey

On 7/22/2020 7:34 PM, Stephen wrote:

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:23 PM, Harvey White wrote:

You need to look at the manual for the TM506.

3A, 3B, 4A, 4B are all the return for the 11.5 volts.  It's done that
way to share the load on the pins, not an uncommon situation for a design.

That's why the 11.5 volt + leads are paralleled (pin wise), and the 33
volt power supply.

I do that lots, it tends to save pins and wires.  It lowers the
resistance to the other board.

Harvey
So as Ke-Fong Lin said, that’s normal.

I have all the manuals for everything I own. I’m trying to keep up, but I can’t read everything. There are so many subjects. Little by little, I will.



Re: TM506

 

Be sure the input voltage selector jumpers inside the TM506 are set to the proper voltage range your electric utility provides. If they do not match your power line voltage the three AC voltages and the three DC voltages of the TM506 will be ~15% higher or lower than they should be.

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mlynch001
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TM506

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 01:16 PM, Stephen wrote:


I checked the voltages on all slot between 1A-1B and I have around
26.2VAC in all of them. But
These AC voltages always seem to read high without a load. I believe that 24.8V is the fully loaded specification. Also depends on the RMS converter and calibration of the meter. You are close enough.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR





--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: Need help with 11801 delay jitter #photo-notice

Clark Foley
 

It has been a long time since I have used the 11801, but I remember well that the jitter accumulation as a function of delay is profound. What you are seeing is not unusual from what I recall. The scope was optimized for short delay times. The timing hardware is not locked to an internal timing standard; instead, it is done with analog linear ramps. Check the jitter specifications and you will see a term something like "4ppm of delay setting." I think that this is an RMS and typical. The display will capture close to the peak-to-peak jitter which is many times the RMS jitter.
Use the scope's RMS jitter measurement and compare to the number that you calculate from the specification.

Clark


Re: TM506

Michael W. Lynch
 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 06:55 PM, EJP wrote:



PS503A does not use the pass transistors
Oh yes it does.

At a guess, the plugins that only count or meter are much less likely
to use the pass transistors than the ones that produce outputs.
EJP

I stand corrected. I did not look close enough at the PS503A Circuit description.

In any case, Getting the pass transistors all working is the first order of business.



Thanks!


--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


Re: TM506

EJP
 

PS503A does not use the pass transistors
Oh yes it does.

At a guess, the plugins that only count or meter are much less likely
to use the pass transistors than the ones that produce outputs.

EJP


Re: TM506

Stephen
 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:23 PM, Harvey White wrote:


You need to look at the manual for the TM506.

3A, 3B, 4A, 4B are all the return for the 11.5 volts.  It's done that
way to share the load on the pins, not an uncommon situation for a design.

That's why the 11.5 volt + leads are paralleled (pin wise), and the 33
volt power supply.

I do that lots, it tends to save pins and wires.  It lowers the
resistance to the other board.

Harvey
So as Ke-Fong Lin said, that’s normal.

I have all the manuals for everything I own. I’m trying to keep up, but I can’t read everything. There are so many subjects. Little by little, I will.


Re: TM506

Stephen
 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:20 PM, Ke-Fong Lin wrote:


All the voltages you guys told me to check, check out fine, although a bit
higher than expected.
Except for 4A and 4B to 3A or 3B. There is nothing.
Yes, that's normal, these are common for the +11.5VDC
I feel relieved. I’m gonna get some 2A Fast fuses tomorrow. I only have slow-blow’s. I’ll test the DC503A then. Hopefully it’ll be fine.


Re: TM506

Harvey White
 

You need to look at the manual for the TM506.

3A, 3B, 4A, 4B are all the return for the 11.5 volts.  It's done that way to share the load on the pins, not an uncommon situation for a design.

That's why the 11.5 volt + leads are paralleled (pin wise), and the 33 volt power supply.

I do that lots, it tends to save pins and wires.  It lowers the resistance to the other board.

Harvey

On 7/22/2020 6:43 PM, Stephen wrote:
All the voltages you guys told me to check, check out fine, although a bit higher than expected.
Except for 4A and 4B to 3A or 3B. There is nothing.



Re: TDS540B switches during boot VGA output from color to monochrome

HK
 

Yes, looks the same. Can you provide me with a transformer? I read that you have at least one left. How can I send a PM?
- Henry


Re: TM506

Ke-Fong Lin
 

All the voltages you guys told me to check, check out fine, although a bit
higher than expected.
Except for 4A and 4B to 3A or 3B. There is nothing.
Yes, that's normal, these are common for the +11.5VDC


Re: TM506

Stephen
 

Well, I should’ve checked first. Both fuses are dead on the plugin (PS-503A)
Will have to put 2A Fast fuses. 1.5A are not available here.


Re: TM506

Stephen
 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:57 AM, Ke-Fong Lin wrote:

1) Remove all plug-ins from your TM506.
2) Pick one slot, except the high power one (rightmost). For example, pick the
leftmost.
3) Use a DMM, check pin A13 and B13, check for approx 25VAC. Do the same for
A1 and B1
All are ok.

4) Use DMM again, check pin 2A and 3A, check for approx +11.5VDC (RTFM for
acceptable tolerance).
That’s also Ok

5) Download the PS503A service manual, have a look at the
Done a while ago.

6) Disconnect the pass transistors of the selected slot.
7) Plug your PS503A.
8) Turn on your TM506, if it blows, then you're really screwed, sorry.
Nothing blew. But no LED’s turn on. Some should even when the unit is In the OFF position.