Date   

Re: Tek 11000 Series Scope

Reginald Beardsley
 

I use my 11801 a *lot*, particularly with an SD-24 for testing RF connectors and cables.

I missed a chance at an 11801C, but am continuing to look for one.

Reg


Re: Switching a Tek TDS 5204 to 50 Ohms input impedance - Strange!

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 04:27 PM, Brian wrote:


Hi , sorry to but in but I think Tek have got it right . The scope has no idea
if the voltage measured is from a hi-impedance current limited source or a
low-impedance constant voltage source with little or no current limit . The
50R termination in the scope is expensive and difficult / costly to repair so
they play safe to protect it . I would not be complaining about that .
regardsBrian Skilton
These were my thoughts exactly. I wanted to add that the 50 Ohm input may be protected but for a fast 'scope, the circuits would be tiny, so difficult to fully protect. Unfortunately, I couldn't find (the BW of) a TDS 5204 so decided not to write my reaction. Probably an MSO5204?

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 06:26 PM, Jokken Feldhaar wrote:

Did the engineers at Tek really commit this big time error? I cannot believe this!
So, not an error at all, just clever design!

Raymond


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Renée
 

mine are in early Tek 422 inputs 8056 and  one 8393 vert amp total of 3
Renée

On 6/15/20 9:44 AM, Dale H. Cook wrote:
On 6/15/2020 12:21 PM, Roy Thistle wrote:

Where any of these used in Tek stuff?
Six 8393s were used in the original release of the Tek 453 in the inputs to both channels and in both trigger generators and both sweep generators. All six were replaced by FETs in the second version of the 453 (serials above 20,000). When Tek introduced the 453 in response to IBM's need for a compact and durable lab-grade 'scope that would fit under an airliner seat the 8393 was a superb choice. Many of us consider the 453 to be the first truly portable lab-grade 'scope.


Re: Scope carts

David Hallam
 

I have a Tek mobile scope cart model 3 in my storage unit.  It's in fairly nice condition, needs to be wiped down to remove accumulate dust and dirt.  After paying for 2 years of storage on the the unit, things have to go.  I will give it to anyone who will come and pick it up, Clearwater, FL.  Otherwise, it goes to the dump.

dchallam@protonmail.com

David
KW4DH

On 6/13/2020 9:14 AM, robert Johnson via groups.io wrote:
For my scope cart I bought a cart from Ikea they are available else where
Utility cart, white, 13 3/4x17 3/4x30 3/4 "

On Saturday, June 13, 2020, 08:49:50 AM EDT, NigelP <nigel-pritchard@outlook.com> wrote:
Carts not easy to come by in the UK. Here's one I made earlier (photos in Albums/Homemade Scope Cart). Made from aluminium alloy rectangular section and MDF, it's vaguely modelled on one of the Tek designs and has a 7904A on top and two TM504s under-slung. The mainframe platform tilts a few degrees, the TM shelf is fixed. There's an MDF drawer compartment that forms the core of the support at the bottom and this holds the probes etc. There's a power distribution board recessed into the back of the drawer compartment.

Also lurking down there is a Tek viewing hood; it's an odd brown colour; I always thought they were blue!

Also in view is the LED inspection lamp so I can actually see the TM504 dials!! Another shot shows the 7603/7L14/TR502 set up plus a small selection of the homemade gear.

Regards

Nigel G8AYM




Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Dave Wise
 

No, but early production (ca. 1965) of the Keithley 147 and 148 Nanovoltmeters used a couple of Raytheon CK512AX in the front end.
At the time, they were quieter than semiconductors.

I have a 453, 1A1, 1A2, 1A7, 1S1, and 321A with Nuvistors. One (in the 1A7) was bad when I got it, but I've never had one fail.

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Roy Thistle via groups.io <roy.thistle=mail.utoronto.ca@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:21 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Some interesting Nuvistor information

There were manufactured, previous to the Nuvistor, small/miniature, glass jacketed, triodes. These were very rugged. Where any of these used in Tek stuff?


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

stevenhorii
 

The mention of Nuvistors in the 1A1 reminded me. I had a 1A1 that had a bad
channel. I got at a hamfest and did not look carefully at it before
plugging it in the scope (a 547) and one channel was dead - the other was
fine. I pulled it and looked more carefully. One of those Nuvistors was
missing. I don't remember how I got a replacement, but when I got it, I put
it in place and the plug in worked fine.

I bought a surplus image converter of some sort. That thing must have
thirty of those miniature glass tubes in it. Probably early '60s vintage.

Steve H

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 12:21 Roy Thistle <roy.thistle@mail.utoronto.ca>
wrote:

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 07:45 PM, stevenhorii wrote:


Some details on the Nuvistor
Yes, see George M. Rose Jr.'s 1961 patent, which was called an "electron
tube"... which it was and is... a unique (at least to the U.S. Patent
Office) miniature version of once relatively common metal tubes.... like,
6J5.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/be/13/ad/774a8fcb959598/US3004185.pdf

Wikipedia says RCA announced the device in 1959. RCA employing their usual
marketing wank... gave it the name Nuvistor: thus forever confusing those
who won't differentiate between conduction in a semiconductor, from
promotion of free electrons via thermal excitation... and conduction in a
vacuum, from promotion of free electrons via thermionic emission.

There were manufactured, previous to the Nuvistor, small/miniature, glass
jacketed, triodes. These were very rugged. Where any of these used in Tek
stuff?




Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Paul Amaranth
 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:52 AM, Paul Amaranth wrote:


I have a 453 and a 464 with nuvistors. Never had to replace them although
I do have some spares (somewhere).
Oops, typo, that should be 454 of course


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

J Mcvein
 

Nuvistor is a twist on New Vista, RCA's trade name for the early 60's
color sets. Big problems in the day getting color reception in fringe
areas, the lower noise floor of the tuner sold a lot of sets to a lot of
farmers.

JimMc

-----Original Message-----
From: "Roy Thistle" <roy.thistle@mail.utoronto.ca>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 12:21pm
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Some interesting Nuvistor information



On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 07:45 PM, stevenhorii wrote:


Some details on the Nuvistor
Yes, see George M. Rose Jr.'s 1961 patent, which was called an "electron tube"... which it was and is... a unique (at least to the U.S. Patent Office) miniature version of once relatively common metal tubes.... like, 6J5.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/be/13/ad/774a8fcb959598/US3004185.pdf

Wikipedia says RCA announced the device in 1959. RCA employing their usual marketing wank... gave it the name Nuvistor: thus forever confusing those who won't differentiate between conduction in a semiconductor, from promotion of free electrons via thermal excitation... and conduction in a vacuum, from promotion of free electrons via thermionic emission.

There were manufactured, previous to the Nuvistor, small/miniature, glass jacketed, triodes. These were very rugged. Where any of these used in Tek stuff?


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Dale H. Cook
 

On 6/15/2020 12:21 PM, Roy Thistle wrote:

Where any of these used in Tek stuff?
Six 8393s were used in the original release of the Tek 453 in the inputs to both channels and in both trigger generators and both sweep generators. All six were replaced by FETs in the second version of the 453 (serials above 20,000). When Tek introduced the 453 in response to IBM's need for a compact and durable lab-grade 'scope that would fit under an airliner seat the 8393 was a superb choice. Many of us consider the 453 to be the first truly portable lab-grade 'scope.
--
Dale H. Cook, GR/HP/Tek Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
https://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Dale H. Cook
 

On 6/15/2020 11:45 AM, Roy Morgan wrote:

It may well have been RCA who developed the nuvistor, possibly to meet military and high reliability commercial needs.
It was RCA who developed them - they were first announced by RCA in 1959. They were developed by RCA as a rugged, very compact, and very high performance line of tubes to compete with early transistors. They offered VHF and UHF performance that exceeded what transistors of the day could reasonably provide. RCA used them in TV tuners until late 1971. By that time JFETs had become available to replace them.
--
Dale H. Cook, GR/HP/Tek Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
https://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Roy Thistle
 

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 07:45 PM, stevenhorii wrote:


Some details on the Nuvistor
Yes, see George M. Rose Jr.'s 1961 patent, which was called an "electron tube"... which it was and is... a unique (at least to the U.S. Patent Office) miniature version of once relatively common metal tubes.... like, 6J5.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/be/13/ad/774a8fcb959598/US3004185.pdf

Wikipedia says RCA announced the device in 1959. RCA employing their usual marketing wank... gave it the name Nuvistor: thus forever confusing those who won't differentiate between conduction in a semiconductor, from promotion of free electrons via thermal excitation... and conduction in a vacuum, from promotion of free electrons via thermionic emission.

There were manufactured, previous to the Nuvistor, small/miniature, glass jacketed, triodes. These were very rugged. Where any of these used in Tek stuff?


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Paul Amaranth
 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:45:42AM -0400, Roy Morgan wrote:
Pardon a memory lane trip:

I have here Ameco 6M and 2M converters and preamps using the 6CW4/6DS4. A few recently discovered spares may never be needed.

And finally Tek on-topic, the 1A1 preamps for my much-respected Tek 545B and 547 use nuvistors, possibly a different type number. (Is it my later, square-knobbed ones that moved from FET's to nuvistors?)

Long live these noble artifacts of best-in-the-world technology!

Roy
K1LKY since 1958
I have a 453 and a 464 with nuvistors. Never had to replace them although
I do have some spares (somewhere).


--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@AuroraGrp.Com | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

Roy Morgan
 

Pardon a memory lane trip:

I've been interested in tubes since the mid-1950's when I got my first radio - a 1930's Atwater Kent with tube types 27 and 47. IIRC (if I remember correctly):

in the 60's ... many RCA sets used nuvisters in the tuners and in other RF applications.
It may well have been RCA who developed the nuvistor, possibly to meet military and high reliability commercial needs.

I can't remember ever having found a bad one.
Long life and high reliability were among their important characteristics.

In an earlier era, Western Electric made *very* long life tubes similar to the 6D6 and 41, (which are used in the Navy's best-in-class TRF receivers RAL and RAK). WE put their very best tubes into transatlantic telephone cable amplifiers and lowered them to the bottom of the ocean, where they had very long life indeed.

I have here Ameco 6M and 2M converters and preamps using the 6CW4/6DS4. A few recently discovered spares may never be needed.

And finally Tek on-topic, the 1A1 preamps for my much-respected Tek 545B and 547 use nuvistors, possibly a different type number. (Is it my later, square-knobbed ones that moved from FET's to nuvistors?)

Long live these noble artifacts of best-in-the-world technology!

Roy
K1LKY since 1958


Re: Tek 11000 Series Scope

gjm45janssen
 

I have an 11402 (as backup), a 11403A (my scope for regular use) and a CSA803A with software upgrade to the CSA803C, i.e. no prescaler upgrade.

Kind regards,
Gerard Janssen


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

rbassham@...
 

I've started out in the 60's working on TV's many RCA sets used nuvisters in the tuners and in other RF applications. I can't remember ever having found a bad one.


Re: Switching a Tek TDS 5204 to 50 Ohms input impedance - Strange!

Brian
 

Hi , sorry to but in but I think Tek have got it right . The scope has no idea if the voltage measured is from a hi-impedance current limited source or a low-impedance constant voltage source with little or no current limit . The 50R termination in the scope is expensive and difficult / costly to repair so they play safe to protect it . I would not be complaining about that .
regardsBrian Skilton

On Monday, 15 June 2020, 15:15:13 BST, Jokken Feldhaar <jochen_feldhaar@gmx.de> wrote:

Hi Ed,

I think you missed my main point, the photo diode is quite high impedance.

The problem is, that at 1M impedance I get 5+ Volts on the input,
decreasing to 4 mV when switched to 50 Ohms. But the Scope measures the
voltage at 1M, and decides that this is too high to switch to 50 Ohms.
It completely ignores the impedance-induced voltage change.

So I have to manually disconnect the diode, switch to 50 Ohms, and then
reconnect the diode. Tek could have done better, IMHO.

Grgards, Jochen DH6FAZ

Am 15.06.2020 um 13:13 schrieb Ed:
When the photo diode output is connected to 50 ohms vs 1megohm, I would expect the voltage to drop unless there is an amplifier in line. And even if there is, it would have to have a low output impedance to drive 50 ohms with the same voltage as 1 megohm.

ed



Re: Switching a Tek TDS 5204 to 50 Ohms input impedance - Strange!

Jokken Feldhaar
 

Hi Ed,

I think you missed my main point, the photo diode is quite high impedance.

The problem is, that at 1M impedance I get 5+ Volts on the input,
decreasing to 4 mV when switched to 50 Ohms. But the Scope measures the
voltage at 1M, and decides that this is too high to switch to 50 Ohms.
It completely ignores the impedance-induced voltage change.

So I have to manually disconnect the diode, switch to 50 Ohms, and then
reconnect the diode. Tek could have done better, IMHO.

Grgards, Jochen DH6FAZ

Am 15.06.2020 um 13:13 schrieb Ed:

When the photo diode output is connected to 50 ohms vs 1megohm, I would expect the voltage to drop unless there is an amplifier in line. And even if there is, it would have to have a low output impedance to drive 50 ohms with the same voltage as 1 megohm.

ed


Re: Some interesting Nuvistor information

David Holland
 

The 567 mainframe itself doesn't contain any nuvistors, however, the usual
6R1A digital unit contains two (6CW4) nuvistors on the memory board.
The 6R1A is also the location of the Nixie's. (4 numeric B5092's and a
B5094 http://www.swissnixie.com/tubes/B5094/ for unit display)

Without the 6R1A, and without plugins that support it, I don't think
there's much functional difference between the 567 and say a 561A (or B).
(?? - I admit, I've not completely compared the documentation.)

I've a RM567 in the basement that appears relatively complete, but it has
never been turned on, so I don't know its status.

Many of the regular 560 series plugins have nuvistors in them, Tektronix
seems to have liked the 7586 as part of the input stage in the amplifier
plugins.

David

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:45 PM stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:

I am replying in this thread as I have some recollection that the Tek 567
had Nuvistors in it. Do any of you have experience with a 567? I've heard
stories that some that turned up for low prices were purchased by those
looking for Nixie tubes! I know this happened with the Hewlett-Packard 5245
and 5248 counters. I still use an HP 5248M. I also have several time code
generators (Astrodata, Eeco) that use Nixie tubes. They can get dim, but
they last a long time.

Steve H.


On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:06 PM snapdiode via groups.io <snapdiode=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I've been (virtually) leafing through the issues of the RCA Engineer

https://worldradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1964-04-05.pdf

Some details on the Nuvistor on page 8 of the magazine, page 10 of the
PDF.






Re: DSA 602 "partial enhanced accuracy" at each startup

 

I forgot: both DSAs have the 4C option.


Re: DSA 602 "partial enhanced accuracy" at each startup

 

Hi all,

I re-checked both my DAS602 (without A, unfortunately):

#1 (doing partial enhanced accuracy at each startup)
Executive 2.2, Digitizer 2.2, Display 2.3
11A34 with F3.3
11A72 with F2.11
11A33 with F2.4
all checks passed on all modules

#2 (immediate measurement after startup)
Executive 2.23, Digitizer 2.23, Display 2.3
11A72 with F2.11 and "fuse test failed"
11A33 with 2.4 OK
no module in right slot

Before the NVRAM-Battery-message I thought that one of the two other batteries was flat making the scope forget its configuraton. But they all tested fine.
Would the module throw an error message if its Dallas-chip-battery is gone?

cheers
Martin

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