Date   
Re: Logic families

Glenn Little
 

I was a Navigation Electronics Tech on Poseidon class submarines.
We used a navigation computer  built by UNIVAC in 1967, the CP-890/UYK.
This computer used DTL flat pack logic.
The computer was still in use through the late 1990's.
The reason for the long life was reliability.
We might have one failure between three computers in a 90 day period.

So DTL was still in use through the late 1990's.

Glenn Little ETCS(SS) USN Retired


On 1/5/2020 8:41 AM, Dale H. Cook wrote:
On 1/5/2020 12:13 AM, KB6NAX wrote:

RTL and DTL are obsolete, too slow, too few functions, too power hungry, no longer made.  Look up ancient data sheets.
There is still specialized equipment in use that was built with RTL -  I have a customer with one example.
-- h
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"

Re: Tektronix 570 Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer on eBay

Dave Daniel
 

I have been looking at sales of Tektronix 570s, mostly but not all on ebay, for a long time now. All of then have had an asking price of around $4k.

DaveD

Sent from a small flat thingy

On Jan 5, 2020, at 09:45, Eric <ericsp@...> wrote:

I would love to have a 570 in the lab but not for that that is nuts.


On 1/5/2020 9:36 AM, Mlynch001 wrote:
On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 10:48 PM, Dan Cordova wrote:

For less than $200, I put together a Dennis Tillman VTCT board, and modified
my Hickok Tube Tester to use with my Tektronix 575 curve tracer. I also made
the Daniel Schoo designed triode and pentode adapters for the Tektronix 576
Curve Tracer at work.
I'm also not sure all my tubes and stereo gear are worth ~$4000 all together.
;)
I KNOW my stereo gear is not worth that much! I have the stuff to build Dennis Tillman's VTCT and I have a 576 as well. So even after I buy a suitable tube tester, I am sure that all told I would have less than $1000 in the whole thing. It might not do what the 570 will do, but likely 95% as much and still test solid state devices as well. You would need to have a serious desire or even more serious need for this thing in order to justify paying that price. From the description, it sounds as though this thing is not quite ready to go as it is. The elephant in the room is getting it shipped to ones location without it being destroyed in the process. The seller does have a "Make an Offer" option as well. This will be interesting to watch.



Re: Logic families

Lawrance A. Schneider
 

Thank you Arden! I learned a lot by reading it.

Mr. Lynch, you wrote: I have an older TI Logic Cross reference that crosses over many of the older Logic IC’s.

Could you post it?

Thank you, larry

Re: Tektronix 570 Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer on eBay

Eric
 

Is there a modern version of these curve tracers? From what I have seen the 300 series seems to be about the top end. I know you can get the same functionality today but you need 2 X $10,000 SMU's, and a computer, and software so call it a $25,000 setup though given the catalog price of the 576 and the 300's doesn't sound so bad now that I say it.

On 1/5/2020 6:59 AM, cnc_joker via Groups.Io wrote:
A long time ago in the early 80's the Massachusetts hams ran an auction at Honeywell Inc
in Billerica. You could bring your old electronic stuff and they would auction it off. It was
great fun and always well attended.

Anyway, one guy brought a 370 to be auctioned. As he wheeled it in on a cart the crowd
chuckled. When it went up for auction it sold for $1 and the auctioneer had a hard time
getting even that! Between then and now, what a great return on that investment.

Pete.

Re: Sony/Tek 318 Logic Analyser - parts needed

Peter_G0RSQ
 

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 04:21 PM, Gala Dragos wrote:


Sony/Tektronix 318
I have fully working one (no probes) in UK.

peter at g0rsq dot co dot uk

Re: Trying to bring back a AA501

Eric
 

I did find out that the AA501 does need the VCC of 15V so the HC series logic is out for sure. I am going to order some of the direct replacement parts as there is a supply house that has then mouser and digikey were out. Texas Instrument cross reference says a CD40175BE is a comparable part as well. I have also confirmed the fault as with this IC out of circuit the 501 says 100+% distortion on all frequencies also one of the outputs is open when i check it with my small curve tracer. On this one pin 14 is dead.

On 1/5/2020 1:08 AM, KeepIt SimpleStupid via Groups.Io wrote:
My GOTO place has it: http://www.utsource.net/sch/MM74C175N
On Saturday, January 4, 2020, 10:31:47 PM EST, Mlynch001 <@mlynch001> wrote:
OK, learned something.  LSTTL and TTL are different animals?  SN74HC175N Will drive 10 outputs of LSTTL.    Just trying to learn how logic works, I will likely encounter a similar issue in the future.

Thanks!

Re: Logic families

peter bunge
 

You can make an Op Amp with a 914 RTL. They were fun to play with and I
have a couple. I am looking for a 923 flip-flop out of nostalgia but my
interest does not amount to $20+ being asked (with another $20 shipping to
Canada). I have a large selection of old logic chips if anyone has a
specific need.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:15 AM KB6NAX <gumbear@...> wrote:

RTL and DTL are obsolete, too slow, too few functions, too power hungry,
no
longer made. Look up ancient data sheets.

Arden

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Davidson via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2020 8:05 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Logic families



On 5/01/2020 13:58, KB6NAX wrote:
Here's a comprehensive overview of the various logic families (long URL):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=19&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjBrqSQuevmAhVoB50JHRjTC4MQFjASegQIBxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Flit%2Fsdyu001&usg=AOvVaw25lGF9wfK6uX4gPjvyvJpf

No that very comprehensive. What about DTL & RTL???
Dean






Re: Tektronix 570 Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer on eBay

Eric
 

I would love to have a 570 in the lab but not for that that is nuts.

On 1/5/2020 9:36 AM, Mlynch001 wrote:
On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 10:48 PM, Dan Cordova wrote:

For less than $200, I put together a Dennis Tillman VTCT board, and modified
my Hickok Tube Tester to use with my Tektronix 575 curve tracer.  I also made
the Daniel Schoo designed triode and pentode adapters for the Tektronix 576
Curve Tracer at work.
I'm also not sure all my tubes and stereo gear are worth ~$4000 all together.
   ;)
I KNOW my stereo gear is not worth that much! I have the stuff to build Dennis Tillman's VTCT and I have a 576 as well. So even after I buy a suitable tube tester, I am sure that all told I would have less than $1000 in the whole thing. It might not do what the 570 will do, but likely 95% as much and still test solid state devices as well. You would need to have a serious desire or even more serious need for this thing in order to justify paying that price. From the description, it sounds as though this thing is not quite ready to go as it is. The elephant in the room is getting it shipped to ones location without it being destroyed in the process. The seller does have a "Make an Offer" option as well. This will be interesting to watch.

Re: Tektronix 570 Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer on eBay

Mlynch001
 

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 10:48 PM, Dan Cordova wrote:


For less than $200, I put together a Dennis Tillman VTCT board, and modified
my Hickok Tube Tester to use with my Tektronix 575 curve tracer.  I also made
the Daniel Schoo designed triode and pentode adapters for the Tektronix 576
Curve Tracer at work.  
I'm also not sure all my tubes and stereo gear are worth ~$4000 all together.
   ;)
I KNOW my stereo gear is not worth that much! I have the stuff to build Dennis Tillman's VTCT and I have a 576 as well. So even after I buy a suitable tube tester, I am sure that all told I would have less than $1000 in the whole thing. It might not do what the 570 will do, but likely 95% as much and still test solid state devices as well. You would need to have a serious desire or even more serious need for this thing in order to justify paying that price. From the description, it sounds as though this thing is not quite ready to go as it is. The elephant in the room is getting it shipped to ones location without it being destroyed in the process. The seller does have a "Make an Offer" option as well. This will be interesting to watch.


--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Re: Tektronix 570 Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer on eBay

Mlynch001
 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:16 AM, John Williams wrote:

I wonder
if he will get bids.
I am watching it just to see what happens.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Re: Logic families

Dale H. Cook
 

On 1/5/2020 12:13 AM, KB6NAX wrote:

RTL and DTL are obsolete, too slow, too few functions, too power hungry, no longer made.  Look up ancient data sheets.
There is still specialized equipment in use that was built with RTL - I have a customer with one example.
--
Dale H. Cook, Radio Contract Engineer, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
https://plymouthcolony.net/starcityeng/index.html

Re: Tektronix 570 Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer on eBay

cnc_joker
 

A long time ago in the early 80's the Massachusetts hams ran an auction at Honeywell Inc
in Billerica. You could bring your old electronic stuff and they would auction it off. It was
great fun and always well attended.

Anyway, one guy brought a 370 to be auctioned. As he wheeled it in on a cart the crowd
chuckled. When it went up for auction it sold for $1 and the auctioneer had a hard time
getting even that! Between then and now, what a great return on that investment.

Pete.

Re: SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Melvin Gleep
 

Hi David,

Can you send me a scan of your hand written schematic? It will no doubt save me some reverse engineering work.

Thanks,
Melvin

Gesendet von Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für Windows 10

Von: Melvin Gleep<mailto:mgleep2@...>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. Januar 2020 12:25
An: TekScopes@groups.io<mailto:TekScopes@groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [TekScopes] SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Thanks David. I had already read your write-up. It gives me afighting Chance.

Gesendet von Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für Windows 10

Von: David C. Partridge<mailto:@perdrix>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. Januar 2020 12:07
An: TekScopes@groups.io<mailto:TekScopes@groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [TekScopes] SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Indeed and finding a modern replacement for those latching relays isn't easy! I looked at making an SG5030 head replacement, but no-one at the time had a dead levelling head and I also hadn't got an SG5030 to test against.

Could I do one - yes. If you want to use anything from the original SG504 head design you'll find the write up on my website:

<http://perdrix.co.uk/SG504Head/index.htm>

If you do go down that route I have hand drawn schematic from the original designer that shows a few component value changes from mine.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Egge Siert
Sent: 05 January 2020 08:31
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Hi Melvin,

Maybe you allready know? Out of some private correspondence with another TekScopes member:

" NOOT: the 015-2350-01 SG5030 Leveling Head has indeed the same RF switches as the earlier mentioned CG's and DC's. Also it has the same Hybrid as used in the SG504 Leveling Head. "

Greetings,

Egge Siert

Re: SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Melvin Gleep
 

Thanks David. I had already read your write-up. It gives me afighting Chance.

Gesendet von Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für Windows 10

Von: David C. Partridge<mailto:@perdrix>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. Januar 2020 12:07
An: TekScopes@groups.io<mailto:TekScopes@groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [TekScopes] SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Indeed and finding a modern replacement for those latching relays isn't easy! I looked at making an SG5030 head replacement, but no-one at the time had a dead levelling head and I also hadn't got an SG5030 to test against.

Could I do one - yes. If you want to use anything from the original SG504 head design you'll find the write up on my website:

<http://perdrix.co.uk/SG504Head/index.htm>

If you do go down that route I have hand drawn schematic from the original designer that shows a few component value changes from mine.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Egge Siert
Sent: 05 January 2020 08:31
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Hi Melvin,

Maybe you allready know? Out of some private correspondence with another TekScopes member:

" NOOT: the 015-2350-01 SG5030 Leveling Head has indeed the same RF switches as the earlier mentioned CG's and DC's. Also it has the same Hybrid as used in the SG504 Leveling Head. "

Greetings,

Egge Siert

Re: SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Melvin Gleep
 

Hi Egge,

Thanks. I didn`t. Good to know.

Gesendet von Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für Windows 10

Von: Egge Siert<mailto:eggeja2@...>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. Januar 2020 09:31
An: TekScopes@groups.io<mailto:TekScopes@groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [TekScopes] SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Hi Melvin,

Maybe you allready know? Out of some private correspondence with another TekScopes member:

" NOOT: the 015-2350-01 SG5030 Leveling Head has indeed the same RF switches as the earlier mentioned CG's and DC's. Also it has the same Hybrid as used in the SG504 Leveling Head. "

Greetings,

Egge Siert

Re: SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

 

Indeed and finding a modern replacement for those latching relays isn't easy! I looked at making an SG5030 head replacement, but no-one at the time had a dead levelling head and I also hadn't got an SG5030 to test against.

Could I do one - yes. If you want to use anything from the original SG504 head design you'll find the write up on my website:

<http://perdrix.co.uk/SG504Head/index.htm>

If you do go down that route I have hand drawn schematic from the original designer that shows a few component value changes from mine.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Egge Siert
Sent: 05 January 2020 08:31
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Hi Melvin,

Maybe you allready know? Out of some private correspondence with another TekScopes member:

" NOOT: the 015-2350-01 SG5030 Leveling Head has indeed the same RF switches as the earlier mentioned CG's and DC's. Also it has the same Hybrid as used in the SG504 Leveling Head. "

Greetings,

Egge Siert

Re: Logic families

Mlynch001
 

Arden,

True. However, in the context of much of the equipment that many of us are dealing with, these older forms of logic are most relevant. This is why I read and try to understand posts, such as Eric’s. So the historical part is nice to know. But understanding how the early forms work is essential to the understanding of the later versions. That is why I enjoy herring from people, such as yourself, and others on this forum who have a better understanding of the subject.

Thank you
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Re: SG5030 and SG504 leveling heads

Egge Siert
 

Hi Melvin,

Maybe you allready know? Out of some private correspondence with another TekScopes member:

" NOOT: the 015-2350-01 SG5030 Leveling Head has indeed the same RF switches as the earlier mentioned CG's and DC's. Also it has the same Hybrid as used in the SG504 Leveling Head. "

Greetings,

Egge Siert

Re: TDS694C 50 Ohm Overload

EricJ
 

They were about $5 apiece when I bought them IIRC, and there are 4 per board I think.  It has been a while. It's a slightly finicky job, the joints are not very easy to reach and the boards are very fragile being ceramic.

As far as Ebay sellers checking things,  you will probably not have much luck there unless the seller is somewhat knowledgeable about the scope. You might be able to guide one through running SPC and checking the error log.

--Eric

On Jan 4, 2020 9:14 PM, "Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io" <pulaskite=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:




On Sat, Jan  4, 2020 at 05:30 PM, EricJ wrote:


A lot of SPC fails on TDS scopes seem to be related to contact
resistance in
the switching relays on the hybrid acquisition boards. I have a TDS754D
that
had that problem. Changing the relays solved it.

--Eric

On Jan 4, 2020 4:00 PM, "Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io"
<pulaskite=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:




If it works on the higher setting, the problem is in the input section
ahead of the ADC.  I'd look for a burned 50 ohm resistor. Or perhaps a
cracked solder joint.

I saw several of these on ebay with the SPC fail, but had been unable
to
find any information about what might be wrong with such a unit.  How
did
you get the input damage information?

Reg





How hard is it to get replacement relays and what do they cost?

Is there a blog post about reviving these things?

And what do you ask an ebay seller to do to find out the status of  an
item?

Thanks,
Reg

Reg





Re: TDS694C 50 Ohm Overload

EricJ
 

If that is the case then looks like you need to continue looking for that parts donor. Do you know if a TDS644b shares that part? I saw one for sale the other day.

--Eric

On Jan 4, 2020 5:54 PM, Stephen Hanselman <kc4sw.io@...> wrote:




I think, underline think, that a good number of those fails are due to bad
relay contacts but cannot prove that yet.

Regards,

Stephen Hanselman
Datagate Systems, LLC
On Jan 4, 2020, at 14:01, Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io
<pulaskite=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

If it works on the higher setting, the problem is in the input section
ahead of the ADC.  I'd look for a burned 50 ohm resistor. Or perhaps a
cracked solder joint.

I saw several of these on ebay with the SPC fail, but had been unable to
find any information about what might be wrong with such a unit.  How did
you get the input damage information?

Reg