Date   
Re: 11801 NVRAM

Reginald Beardsley
 

Albert,

I am reporting what the frequencies of the trigger and ramp generated by the 33622A are and what the time/division of the 11801 is set to. The 33622A frequencies are accurate to more digits than I have shown. ~1.1 ns is the difference in the length of the trigger clock period and the ramp period. The 33622A is *much* more stable than the 11801 clock.

At 512 & 1024 samples the 11801 will allow 1 ps/div. As you increase the number of samples, the minimum time per division increases. The limit is 10 femtoseconds interval between adjacent sample points. So as you increase the number of points in a sweep, the minimum time per division increases.

With a 100 kHz ramp displayed with 1024 points spaced at intervals of 10 fs, the display is only showing 1 out of every million possible samples along the ramp.

With 1024 samples at 10 fs intervals, it makes 4 obvious sweeps with 200 fs jitter between the start of each sweep. It generally shifts slightly every 4 sweeps and 4 sweeps take place faster than I can count. When the OXO heater turns on it moves like mad for about 10-20 seconds before it settles down again. At 5120 samples at 10 fs intervals it makes 2 obvious sweeps. The jitter is tough to estimate at 5 ps/div. but looks to be around 200 fs. There is some indication that there might be 32 sweeps in a set, but I have not been able to find a way to verify that.

Have Fun!
Reg

Re: Identify the 3-pin Sealectro power Connector from 454 scope for P6045 probe

Dave Daniel
 

Well, the manufacturer and part numbers are on the mating connectors, so one can tell what they are directly. They are both Sealectro (which is what the OP wrote) with different part numbers for each half. I can see the part numbers, but I can't read them. I'll need to find a magnifier. They are not Lemo connectors.

I don't see the usual Tektronix-to-actual manufacturer list in the manual, and the manual is a bit confusing. I have been trying to decipher it. The Sealectro connectors seem to be called out as single-conductor connectors (item ref. no. 37), but that can't be right. It is shown on the schematic (J60) and shown as a three-pin round connector.

I'm confused. I also have one eye temporarily out of commission,so that is not helping matters.

DaveD

On 9/16/2019 5:48 PM, Dennis Tillman W7PF wrote:
Am I missing something?
Did anyone look in the service manual for the part number and the manufacturer code number?
Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of uniacke1 via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 1:32 PM

Any chance it's a 3 pin LEMO variant? Tek used these in other probes as well, e.g. P6407
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/LEMO_S-series_connector
catalog:

http://w140.com/lemo_unipole_multipole.pdf



Re: From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

Dave Wise
 

< The vertical amplifier, and attenuator wasn't calibrated, so to make things work, you adjusted the vertical amplifier variable attenuation to exactly fit the waveform on the graticule lines. Then you switched the vertical input to the calibrator, and adjusted it to match the same graticule lines... reading the peak-peak voltage off of the calibrator's pointer dial.>

Thanks for explaining that so clearly. I suppose that using the graticule as a transfer standard was a good idea back when the amp and CRT deflection were not so linear.
I used to think "calibrated graticule" was just marketing. I didn't realize it was an inversion of methodology.

Still, if they gave me one now, I'd be happy to fix it and play with it, oil can and all.

Dave Wise

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 2:38 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

The old 500 series worked quite differently from what
became the standard analog scope interface, the 545.

The vertical amplifier, and attenuator wasn't calibrated,
so to make things work, you adjusted the vertical amplifier
variable attenuation to exactly fit the waveform on the
graticule lines. Then you switched the vertical input
to the calibrator, and adjusted it to match the same
graticule lines... reading the peak-peak voltage off of
the calibrator's pointer dial.

The horizontal time was similarly odd.... but at least it
was calibrated to the graticule.

The main time switch selected the decade you were in: 1000us,
100us, 10us, 1us, 0.1us per cm. The secondary time switch
was a two dial multiplier, that had 0-10 on one dial, and 0-0.9
on the second. Typically, you adjusted the timing so that
you had one cycle on the graticule, and read the time off of
the dials.

-Chuck Harris

OBTW, the HV section was in a sealed can full of oil. Which
was a good thing for the bumble bee capacitors in it, but not
too convenient when a 5642 rectifier burned out. You unscrew
the HV insulators, to keep the pressure down, unsolder the
can lid, and extract the HV section. It is exactly the same
configuration as all of the later 500 series, only the HV
transformer is the much larger 2.75" W5 E core... and ran at
400Hz, as I recall... maybe 1KHz.

Dave Wise wrote:
Closest I got was high school (Benson Polytechnic in Portland OR) in the early 70's, where one electronics classroom had a 514D in a back corner. I always felt sorry for the poor old thing, which was never touched as far as I know. Also covetous; but the teacher wouldn't give it up. It was the best instrument in the room, our assigned tools being RCA service-grade boxes.

Dave Wise

Re: Identify the 3-pin Sealectro power Connector from 454 scope for P6045 probe

 

Am I missing something?
Did anyone look in the service manual for the part number and the manufacturer code number?
Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of uniacke1 via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 1:32 PM

Any chance it's a 3 pin LEMO variant? Tek used these in other probes as well, e.g. P6407
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/LEMO_S-series_connector
catalog:

http://w140.com/lemo_unipole_multipole.pdf




--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

Re: OFF TOPIC- Fluke handhelds

Lawrance A. Schneider
 

It has all accessories. Also has manual. I’m about to eat - we have guests. I can send pictures if you like.

larry

On Sep 16, 2019, at 5:37 PM, Richard Solomon <dickw1ksz@...> wrote:

Condition ? Accessories ?

73, Dick, W1KSZ

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 2:34 PM Lawrance A. Schneider <llaassllaaass@...>
wrote:

I have one. A Fluke 97. Like new. Make an offer.

larry




Re: OFF TOPIC- Fluke handhelds

Richard Solomon
 

Condition ? Accessories ?

73, Dick, W1KSZ

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 2:34 PM Lawrance A. Schneider <llaassllaaass@...>
wrote:

I have one. A Fluke 97. Like new. Make an offer.

larry



Re: From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

Chuck Harris
 

The old 500 series worked quite differently from what
became the standard analog scope interface, the 545.

The vertical amplifier, and attenuator wasn't calibrated,
so to make things work, you adjusted the vertical amplifier
variable attenuation to exactly fit the waveform on the
graticule lines. Then you switched the vertical input
to the calibrator, and adjusted it to match the same
graticule lines... reading the peak-peak voltage off of
the calibrator's pointer dial.

The horizontal time was similarly odd.... but at least it
was calibrated to the graticule.

The main time switch selected the decade you were in: 1000us,
100us, 10us, 1us, 0.1us per cm. The secondary time switch
was a two dial multiplier, that had 0-10 on one dial, and 0-0.9
on the second. Typically, you adjusted the timing so that
you had one cycle on the graticule, and read the time off of
the dials.

-Chuck Harris

OBTW, the HV section was in a sealed can full of oil. Which
was a good thing for the bumble bee capacitors in it, but not
too convenient when a 5642 rectifier burned out. You unscrew
the HV insulators, to keep the pressure down, unsolder the
can lid, and extract the HV section. It is exactly the same
configuration as all of the later 500 series, only the HV
transformer is the much larger 2.75" W5 E core... and ran at
400Hz, as I recall... maybe 1KHz.

Dave Wise wrote:

Closest I got was high school (Benson Polytechnic in Portland OR) in the early 70's, where one electronics classroom had a 514D in a back corner. I always felt sorry for the poor old thing, which was never touched as far as I know. Also covetous; but the teacher wouldn't give it up. It was the best instrument in the room, our assigned tools being RCA service-grade boxes.

Dave Wise

Re: OFF TOPIC- Fluke handhelds

Lawrance A. Schneider
 

I have one. A Fluke 97. Like new. Make an offer.

larry

Re: From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

Chuck Harris
 

:-)

Kevin Wood G7BCS wrote:

Exactly the same story with my 546, but with a different ending. It was donated to
the school by the local Marconi factory and sat in the science lab at school
gathering dust for several years while we used the basic junk that the school was
issued.

Eventually I asked why it was never used. Too many knobs! Nobody could understand it.
I made a cheeky offer and it came home in my mother's wheelbarrow!

30+ years later and with the benefit of one of Chuck's transformers it still works
very nicely!

Kevin
G7BCS

On 16/09/2019 21:57, Dave Wise wrote:
Closest I got was high school (Benson Polytechnic in Portland OR) in the early
70's, where one electronics classroom had a 514D in a back corner. I always felt
sorry for the poor old thing, which was never touched as far as I know. Also
covetous; but the teacher wouldn't give it up. It was the best instrument in the
room, our assigned tools being RCA service-grade boxes.

Dave Wise


Re: 3.5mm connector for SD24 sampling head...

Chuck Harris
 

If you have a hankering for SD24 porn, there is a complete
tear down, with high resolution pictures on the tekwiki.

I am familiar with working brass. I suspect that this could
be done, but I have no confidence that the connector will
be accurate afterwards. Annealing brass requires you to
heat it to dull red, and then immerse it in water...sort of
the opposite of what you do with steel. I am sure that the
teflon would be ruined.

The connector doesn't look like a solder type. It appears,
from the pictures, to be screwed into a solid block, and
perhaps makes spring contact with the circuit board.

-Chuck Harris

Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io wrote:

That's the sort of thing an expander plug can fix. However, I'd expect to spend most of a day on such a project. But that's because I'm a novice machinist. Not too sure that replacing the connector would be any easier though.

BTW brass work hardens very quickly and attempting to anneal the connector in place might not work out well. Though if you were lucky it would just unsolder it. Once it work hardens, further cold working will crack the metal. So I'd approach attempting to repair the connector with the expectation that I might have to replace it. You would only get one try at reforming the metal.

I would like to get a non-working head to take apart and study. I just don't want to spend too much on one. Certainly not the $200+ some people ask on ebay for "parts only" heads.

Reg



Re: From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

Kevin Wood G7BCS
 

Exactly the same story with my 546, but with a different ending. It was donated to the school by the local Marconi factory and sat in the science lab at school gathering dust for several years while we used the basic junk that the school was issued.

Eventually I asked why it was never used. Too many knobs! Nobody could understand it. I made a cheeky offer and it came home in my mother's wheelbarrow!

30+ years later and with the benefit of one of Chuck's transformers it still works very nicely!

Kevin
G7BCS

On 16/09/2019 21:57, Dave Wise wrote:
Closest I got was high school (Benson Polytechnic in Portland OR) in the early 70's, where one electronics classroom had a 514D in a back corner. I always felt sorry for the poor old thing, which was never touched as far as I know. Also covetous; but the teacher wouldn't give it up. It was the best instrument in the room, our assigned tools being RCA service-grade boxes.
Dave Wise

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Albert Otten
 

Reg,

Fun indeed!!
I tried your setup with less sophisticated signal source:
CSA803, internal triggering, 1 ps/div, 1024 points. FG504 set for triangle waveform approx 100 kHz. FG504 trigger out connected to A input of DC510. CSA Calibrator output connected to input B of DC510. DC510 set for measurement of frequency ratio B/A. Attenuators where appropriate.
With FG504 fine tuning I could obtain a just slowly moving display (somewhat erratic of course, moving backward and forward), good enough to freeze with the Run/Stop button. The frequency ratio was 0.9989-0.9990, or about 1 promille difference. The frozen displays nicely showed one triangle period. Cursor measurements of delta-t between nearly endpoints with equal vertical value scattered around 10 ps in repeated measurements.

Albert

Re: From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

Dave Wise
 

Closest I got was high school (Benson Polytechnic in Portland OR) in the early 70's, where one electronics classroom had a 514D in a back corner. I always felt sorry for the poor old thing, which was never touched as far as I know. Also covetous; but the teacher wouldn't give it up. It was the best instrument in the room, our assigned tools being RCA service-grade boxes.

Dave Wise

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 1:20 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

Hi Dave,

I got my 513D in 1969 as a Christmas present from my EE
father, who worked for the Navy at the Pentagon at the time.

He had some exposure to the instrument, and picked it out
specifically.

I am abundantly aware that the D stands for delay line, as my
father went out of his way to explain, and demonstrate the
significance of that delay line back in 1969. The brain does
what the brain does.

I have no idea what the military contract was that was mentioned
in the TekWiki, only that the 513D came out well before the 517
did. The 513D was mentioned in a 1949 sales blurb, that can be
seen on the tekwiki. The "D" letter came out as an afterthought,
when tek realized they could sell a cheaper scope if they left
that part off. I doubt many got sold.

My DOD EE dad did tell me that the Navy was rather upset with
tektronix during those years because tektronix steadfastly refused
to make ruggedized versions of their scopes.

Tektronix declined the Navy's request because they felt they had
business enough without attempting to meet the Navy's demands.

Contracting engineers kept breaking Navy rules by hauling their
civy tektronix scopes on board the Navy's submarines and ships.
This long preceded the whole LaVoie thing.

Shortly after my Dad gave the present, he borrowed it to work on
a TV, and proceeded to burn out the vertical attenuator switch
and the vertical preamp. So for me the learning fun began.

-Chuck Harris

Dave Wise wrote:
I'm guilty too!

Do you think the 513 was the military contract (1949-1950) that TekWiki says led to the 517, model not identified in the 517 article?

And note that the non-suffix 513 was distributed; once again, "D" signified Delay Line.

Dave

Those rows of tubes marching off to the horizon are amazing.

Re: 3.5mm connector for SD24 sampling head...

Reginald Beardsley
 

That's the sort of thing an expander plug can fix. However, I'd expect to spend most of a day on such a project. But that's because I'm a novice machinist. Not too sure that replacing the connector would be any easier though.

BTW brass work hardens very quickly and attempting to anneal the connector in place might not work out well. Though if you were lucky it would just unsolder it. Once it work hardens, further cold working will crack the metal. So I'd approach attempting to repair the connector with the expectation that I might have to replace it. You would only get one try at reforming the metal.

I would like to get a non-working head to take apart and study. I just don't want to spend too much on one. Certainly not the $200+ some people ask on ebay for "parts only" heads.

Reg

Re: Identify the 3-pin Sealectro power Connector from 454 scope for P6045 probe

BW
 

Any chance it's a 3 pin LEMO variant? Tek used these in other probes as well, e.g. P6407

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/LEMO_S-series_connector

catalog:

http://w140.com/lemo_unipole_multipole.pdf

Re: 3.5mm connector for SD24 sampling head...

Chuck Harris
 

I am not seeing anything even similar.

It is not an SMA, but rather APC3.5.

-Chuck Harris

bobh@... wrote:

Looks like Amphenol may still make it:

https://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/sma.html?mounting_feature=424

Bob.


On 9/16/2019 7:26 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Hi,

I have an SD24 sampling head that is otherwise ok, but has a
3.5mm connector that was banged into a wall by the previous
owner. The connector leading edge is peened over a little bit.

Finding a new connector seems unlikely.

Does anyone out there have a parts unit SD24 or 26 that has a
spare connector?

Thanks!

-Chuck Harris

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Reginald Beardsley
 

All my constants were lost if there were any other than the ones that the calibration in the Enhanced Accuracy menu stores. I suggest redoing that and checking your frequency measurement again.

I *sometimes* read 100 kHz within 5-10 Hz if I have reasonable settings, but small changes in parameters will result in errors of 200-300 Hz or larger. Hardware measurements are generally the least accurate for frequency and period with 1% errors. In general a sampling scope is not well suited to such measurements.

The 11801 FW is *extremely* buggy. I would expect that the CSA803 shares the same problems. Under certain conditions which I cannot reliably reproduce, I get rise time measurements of the calibrator step of 300+ ps. This is often accompanied by 3 glitches on the rising edge near the start, middle and end of the step. This will persist through a power cycle and can *only* be reliably cleared by using the "initialize" option in the Utility menu.

I'd only had the instrument a short time when I ran into this and was quite freaked out when I encountered it. It took a good bit of poking around in menus to sort it out.

Have Fun!
Reg

Re: Tek 576 Curve Tracer HV Transformer winding

Mlynch001
 

Dave,

I'm going all in on my 576. I will likely make a bobbin out of Delrin.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Re: From 2014: Tektronix Announces Winner of Europe’s Oldest Working Oscilloscope Contest

Chuck Harris
 

Hi Dave,

I got my 513D in 1969 as a Christmas present from my EE
father, who worked for the Navy at the Pentagon at the time.

He had some exposure to the instrument, and picked it out
specifically.

I am abundantly aware that the D stands for delay line, as my
father went out of his way to explain, and demonstrate the
significance of that delay line back in 1969. The brain does
what the brain does.

I have no idea what the military contract was that was mentioned
in the TekWiki, only that the 513D came out well before the 517
did. The 513D was mentioned in a 1949 sales blurb, that can be
seen on the tekwiki. The "D" letter came out as an afterthought,
when tek realized they could sell a cheaper scope if they left
that part off. I doubt many got sold.

My DOD EE dad did tell me that the Navy was rather upset with
tektronix during those years because tektronix steadfastly refused
to make ruggedized versions of their scopes.

Tektronix declined the Navy's request because they felt they had
business enough without attempting to meet the Navy's demands.

Contracting engineers kept breaking Navy rules by hauling their
civy tektronix scopes on board the Navy's submarines and ships.
This long preceded the whole LaVoie thing.

Shortly after my Dad gave the present, he borrowed it to work on
a TV, and proceeded to burn out the vertical attenuator switch
and the vertical preamp. So for me the learning fun began.

-Chuck Harris

Dave Wise wrote:

I'm guilty too!

Do you think the 513 was the military contract (1949-1950) that TekWiki says led to the 517, model not identified in the 517 article?

And note that the non-suffix 513 was distributed; once again, "D" signified Delay Line.

Dave

Those rows of tubes marching off to the horizon are amazing.

Re: Tek 576 Curve Tracer HV Transformer winding

Dave Wise
 

Sorry, no, except it's guaranteed to run cooler than its epoxy-loaded predecessor. :)
With my 453, I was lazy, only rewound the high-voltage secondary; I started with the original form and low-voltage windings, and added end flanges.

Dave Wise

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mlynch001
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 12:42 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 576 Curve Tracer HV Transformer winding

Dave,

Any idea how hot this transformer is supposed to run? I can 3D print objects that will withstand up to 125-150F for indefinite periods. Or I can machine the center bobbin out of DELRIN Plastic or PTFE.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR