Date   

Re: CRT to fit 2215

Adrian Nicol
 

Where are you based? If in the UK I have a couple of 2215s that are free to a good home. One works but I suspect the focus resistor chain is off, the other has a PSU fault that someone (not me!) has had a go at in the past.
Adrian


Re: Kludging together a TDR or similar?

Pete Lancashire
 

It would be interesting to take a look at the 1502C and see how it
generates its pulse.

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 10:59 AM Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:36:32 -0700, you wrote:

Good info Harvey!
Thanks. I do have both, had to do a lot of swapping to get them
running, mostly the HV boards and a horizontal amplifier.

The 1503 puts out a half sine pulse generated by a transistor, it is
much less subject to damage. You get the traditional pulse up/down
view of the cable.

However, the TD version (1502) puts a step on the waveform and has a
different presentation. Because the TD is wired directly across the
input/output to the cable, it is quite vulnerable.

IIRC, the 1503 has a series capacitor.

Harvey



And the truth of it is that it's really good to have both a 1502 and a
1503. The 1503 was intended for looking at much longer distances and it
quite useful for stuff like long runs of twisted pair (telephone/etc)
wiring. I use my 1503 at an equestrian center for scoping out buried
wiring (700 - 800 feet long) that controls pasture watering stations. Also
handy for looking at long runs of CAT5 and/or of course, coax.

The resolution of the 1502 is really nice, though, when you don't need
the long distance capability.

Tom






Re: TDS5xx pimpery

EricJ
 

Actually,  it would be good to add that stuff at a central repository somewhere,  like TekWiki. I've noticed that the are already some references to some of the possible modifications on the TDS754 page (the bandwidth upgrade to 1 GHz).  Would be good to add common failure modes and fixes as well,  like the TDS front end relay problem,  etc.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> Date: 6/30/18 12:56 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TDS5xx pimpery
What would be nice is a summary and collection of all the mods for the TDS
5 6 and 7.

Which ones can be upgraded easily xcetera

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 9:56 AM Tam Hanna <tamhan@tamoggemon.com> wrote:










Hello Folks,

need to advise on some things related to the TDS5xx series for buyers.
First of all, only the D models can do GRADIENTED DPO - on classic
InstaVu scopes, frequency information is discarded and only a one bit
bitmap is farted out from the DPO database.


If a black and white model is bought, the BIOS is said to be forceable
to work in color by adding some memory - I did not test this though:


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/conversion-tektronix-tds500-to-tds700-color-oscilloscope/


If you buy a TDS54xD or a 75xD, you can furthermore boost its speed.
Four SMD caps must be removed, then a recal is mandatory (!!!).


Oh, and owners of a GPIB card can also enable a batch of options except
for the mysterious Java runtime and the TV trigger. Most of the TDS
units can be enabled to have either 1m or 2m, but I am not sure if you
want this as the scope becomes superslow.


Tam


With best regards
Tam Hanna
---

Enjoy electronics? Join 8300 other followers by visiting the Crazy
Electronics Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/






Re: Kludging together a TDR or similar?

Harvey White
 

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:36:32 -0700, you wrote:

Good info Harvey!
Thanks. I do have both, had to do a lot of swapping to get them
running, mostly the HV boards and a horizontal amplifier.

The 1503 puts out a half sine pulse generated by a transistor, it is
much less subject to damage. You get the traditional pulse up/down
view of the cable.

However, the TD version (1502) puts a step on the waveform and has a
different presentation. Because the TD is wired directly across the
input/output to the cable, it is quite vulnerable.

IIRC, the 1503 has a series capacitor.

Harvey



And the truth of it is that it's really good to have both a 1502 and a 1503. The 1503 was intended for looking at much longer distances and it quite useful for stuff like long runs of twisted pair (telephone/etc) wiring. I use my 1503 at an equestrian center for scoping out buried wiring (700 - 800 feet long) that controls pasture watering stations. Also handy for looking at long runs of CAT5 and/or of course, coax.

The resolution of the 1502 is really nice, though, when you don't need the long distance capability.

Tom



Re: TDS5xx pimpery

Pete Lancashire
 

What would be nice is a summary and collection of all the mods for the TDS
5 6 and 7.

Which ones can be upgraded easily xcetera

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 9:56 AM Tam Hanna <tamhan@tamoggemon.com> wrote:










Hello Folks,

need to advise on some things related to the TDS5xx series for buyers.
First of all, only the D models can do GRADIENTED DPO - on classic
InstaVu scopes, frequency information is discarded and only a one bit
bitmap is farted out from the DPO database.


If a black and white model is bought, the BIOS is said to be forceable
to work in color by adding some memory - I did not test this though:


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/conversion-tektronix-tds500-to-tds700-color-oscilloscope/


If you buy a TDS54xD or a 75xD, you can furthermore boost its speed.
Four SMD caps must be removed, then a recal is mandatory (!!!).


Oh, and owners of a GPIB card can also enable a batch of options except
for the mysterious Java runtime and the TV trigger. Most of the TDS
units can be enabled to have either 1m or 2m, but I am not sure if you
want this as the scope becomes superslow.


Tam


With best regards
Tam Hanna
---

Enjoy electronics? Join 8300 other followers by visiting the Crazy
Electronics Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/






CRT to fit 2215

Brendan
 

I'm on the prowl for a CRT to fit a 2215. I picked up two 2215's one had a broken CRT the tube was filled with glass (makes a pretty sound) the other has a very dim CRT. I was able to make a pretty nice cosmetically looking scope from the two. I'm having an issue deciding what to do. I have a mint 468 and a 468 that works but is not so pretty I swiped the TDP pot from it for my nice 468 but that is all its missing. I read that I can use a 468 CRT in the 2215 BUT I hate to take a working scope and turn it into a non working scope by swiping the CRT cutting the PDA lead, sounds like butchery. I would like to have an intact parts scope for my nice 468,if that makes any sense. So... If anyone has a nonworking parts scope with a CRT that will fit the 2215 let me know. Thanks guys :)


Re: If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...

Mark Goldberg
 

What about the somewhat newer TSD2000 and TDS3000 series? We had a lot of
them at my previous job. They are not quite as fancy, but much smaller,
lighter and responsive. They can have at least RS232 and some have ethernet
interfaces to capture waveforms, etc. They have a "normal" LCD screen.

Being small and light they seemed to be stolen more often than they broke!
They sometimes were called Fisher Price scopes due to the pastel colors on
the buttons but they worked well for me as everyday scopes.

Some of them seem to be in the $1000 ish range used.

Regards,

Mark


TDS5xx pimpery

Tam Hanna
 

Hello Folks,

need to advise on some things related to the TDS5xx series for buyers.
First of all, only the D models can do GRADIENTED DPO - on classic
InstaVu scopes, frequency information is discarded and only a one bit
bitmap is farted out from the DPO database.


If a black and white model is bought, the BIOS is said to be forceable
to work in color by adding some memory - I did not test this though:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/conversion-tektronix-tds500-to-tds700-color-oscilloscope/


If you buy a TDS54xD or a 75xD, you can furthermore boost its speed.
Four SMD caps must be removed, then a recal is mandatory (!!!).


Oh, and owners of a GPIB card can also enable a batch of options except
for the mysterious Java runtime and the TV trigger. Most of the TDS
units can be enabled to have either 1m or 2m, but I am not sure if you
want this as the scope becomes superslow.


Tam


With best regards
Tam Hanna
---

Enjoy electronics? Join 8300 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/


Re: Kludging together a TDR or similar?

fiftythreebuick <ae5i@...>
 

Good info Harvey!

And the truth of it is that it's really good to have both a 1502 and a 1503. The 1503 was intended for looking at much longer distances and it quite useful for stuff like long runs of twisted pair (telephone/etc) wiring. I use my 1503 at an equestrian center for scoping out buried wiring (700 - 800 feet long) that controls pasture watering stations. Also handy for looking at long runs of CAT5 and/or of course, coax.

The resolution of the 1502 is really nice, though, when you don't need the long distance capability.

Tom


Re: 2710 GPIB / RS232

Martin Whybrow
 

Jim,
Did you manage to extract the GPIB card from the faulty SA?
Thanks, Martin


Re: Laptop control of CSA803 using USB to Serial (RS-232) adapter

Michael A. Terrell
 

To be fair, Joel Koltner has been dead, for years. He was a regular on news:sci.electronics.design and other electronics newsgroup for years prior to his death.

Michael A. Terrell

-----Original Message-----
From: Gudjon Gudjonsson <gudjon.i.gudjonsson@gmail.com>

Hi Albert

I connect to my CSA803 with an FTDI USB to Serial converter that I
soldered a DB-25 connector to.
I have rewritten the example programs from the programmers manual to
Python and tested on both
Linux and Windows.
Joel Koltner's screen capture program is rewritten as a command line
utility. The GUI application depends on a too old version of WX-Python.

https://github.com/GauiStori/tekprogs
https://github.com/GauiStori/joel_koltner_tsc

Hope it is of any interest.

Regards
Gudjon


Re: If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...

Tam Hanna
 

If you don't mind outsourcing the repair, let me recommend Jay Walling:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkpHaVJgsZr/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1jpdh3tjkxm3v

His display works perfectly in my TDS754D...and was cheap. The unit from Sir Xu is better, but costs much more...
--
With best regards
Tam HANNA (emailing on a keyboard-less handset, sorry for spelling mistakes and brevity)


Re: 575 restoration

John
 

Many thanks George. I did wonder if the pattern might actually be due to velocity mod on the X-deflection, which is tantamount to the same thing. I'll investigate and report back.

John


Re: If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...

stefan_trethan
 

Yea I noticed that too. If you have to ask, it's too much.
I'm not even prepared to put $230 into the TDS544A at this point, but
thanks for the suggestion.

ST

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 4:52 AM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I do understand that, my reply was more directed at fellows with the color CRT versions, but for the 540 and it's ilk, mayhaps you could at least select the color of your monochrome.
Regarding LCD vs OLED, personally I would far prefer the OLED. LCD is lacking in several areas, but mainly the black doesn't go black enough because the LCD can't block the backlight completely. The result is a washed-out looking display to my eye.
To the guy looking for a used TDS7xx - the linked sales page doesn't seem to list the price for the color version of the display that would be needed for TDS7xx scopes. I'm guessing it would be considerably higher - they make a point of noting that the listed version - T0e - is a "low-cost" model.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 9:14 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 20:02:26 -0500, you wrote:

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size. Those are nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black reproduction, and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing (about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like). I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices.
Several things about the TDS540, from what I've understood. One is
that the BIOS is not smart enough to write in color, secondly is that
IIRC the graphics chip is wired so that all outputs are going to be in
monochrome regardless of what the BIOS says (someone said to
substitute a TDS544 motherboard for the 540 I have). There *is* an
LCD display out there, and it can be substituted, but the apparent
result in a TDS-540 is not the colors I'd want. Apparently the
display is only partially color.

Personally, I do have an extra monochrome CRT display for the 540,
which works, I think. The 540 I have works well enough, but probably
needs options unlocked. I have to build the IEEE488 adaptor for that
to work.

Now an OLED screen, well, the output to the CRT display is still
monochrome, and I've never heard that the graphics chip has ever been
commanded to do color in the 540, with the graphics option being
removed by tracks on the board.

Harvey


--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 4:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter. You get
to figure out how much the return will be. There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage. If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy. I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive. I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences, like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display, it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18 12:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal

















DC 508

Jim Olson <v_12eng@...>
 

Joined this site a short while ago to get info for the 2215 scope my friend gave me. Got interested in other models and then decided it might be fun to get some more and see about fixing them up or try. I'm a gearhead, aircraft electriciton, US NAVY been into electronics since high school crystal radios, super het receivers etc.
So now after jumping in like the rest of you guys I have a bunch of 400 series non working or broken scopes but price was right and picked up most locally.
Also found a TM506 rack with modules and included was a virtually new DC508 w/option 07 sr#B021195. I don't plan on using it so I am offering here for sale for a serious buyer I will put it on Ebay buy it now so can be picked up, any idea what it really worth?
Being a old hot rodder have decided to do something sort of off the wall and I amtaking a 466 w/DM44 and up grade the front end to the 475 200mhz parts have three of each plus some non DM44 ones. Just an idea and after all most are rough so just playing after all will post how it goes.
By the way do you have to be a ham operator to play with these seems like ya'all are? Had a ham radio in high school but never got my license back then way to much theory then! The set i had was a complete radio with all the tunning boxes out of a WW II TBM neat set had it set up for the car mobile CAP then also used in house with batteries. Car was a 1950 Buick 2 dr fastback with this great tall antenna on the left rear fender fun.


Jim Olson AE1 ret.


Re: If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...

EricJ
 

I do understand that,  my reply was more directed at fellows with the color CRT versions,  but for the 540 and it's ilk, mayhaps you could at least select the color of your monochrome. 
Regarding LCD vs OLED, personally I would far prefer the OLED. LCD is lacking in several areas,  but mainly the black doesn't go black enough because the LCD can't block the backlight completely.  The result is a washed-out looking display to my eye. 
To the guy looking for a used TDS7xx - the linked sales page doesn't seem to list the price for the color version of the display that would be needed for TDS7xx scopes. I'm guessing it would be considerably higher - they make a point of noting that the listed version - T0e - is a "low-cost" model.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 9:14 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 20:02:26 -0500, you wrote:

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size.  Those are nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black reproduction,  and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing (about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like). I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices. 
Several things about the TDS540, from what I've understood.  One is
that the BIOS is not smart enough to write in color, secondly is that
IIRC the graphics chip is wired so that all outputs are going to be in
monochrome regardless of what the BIOS says (someone said to
substitute a TDS544 motherboard for the 540 I have).  There *is* an
LCD display out there, and it can be substituted, but the apparent
result in a TDS-540 is not the colors I'd want.  Apparently the
display is only partially color. 

Personally, I do have an extra monochrome CRT display for the 540,
which works, I think.  The 540 I have works well enough, but probably
needs options unlocked.  I have to build the IEEE488 adaptor for that
to work.

Now an OLED screen, well, the output to the CRT display is still
monochrome, and I've never heard that the graphics chip has ever been
commanded to do color in the 540, with the graphics option being
removed by tracks on the board.

Harvey


--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18  4:46 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter.  You get
to figure out how much the return will be.  There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage.  If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy.  I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive.  I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences,  like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display,  it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18  12:37 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal












Re: If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...

Harvey White
 

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 20:02:26 -0500, you wrote:

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size.  Those are nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black reproduction,  and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing (about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like). I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices. 
Several things about the TDS540, from what I've understood. One is
that the BIOS is not smart enough to write in color, secondly is that
IIRC the graphics chip is wired so that all outputs are going to be in
monochrome regardless of what the BIOS says (someone said to
substitute a TDS544 motherboard for the 540 I have). There *is* an
LCD display out there, and it can be substituted, but the apparent
result in a TDS-540 is not the colors I'd want. Apparently the
display is only partially color.

Personally, I do have an extra monochrome CRT display for the 540,
which works, I think. The 540 I have works well enough, but probably
needs options unlocked. I have to build the IEEE488 adaptor for that
to work.

Now an OLED screen, well, the output to the CRT display is still
monochrome, and I've never heard that the graphics chip has ever been
commanded to do color in the 540, with the graphics option being
removed by tracks on the board.

Harvey


--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 4:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter.  You get
to figure out how much the return will be.  There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage.  If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy.  I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive.  I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences,  like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display,  it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18  12:37 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal












Re: 575 restoration

Glydeck
 

John,

I had the exact same pattern and it turned out to be noise on the AC mains. Turning off fluorescent lights did wonders to reduce it. The collector sweep comes directly from the AC through a transformer, variac and diodes and applied directly to the device under test.

George

On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:23 PM, John <John@sykesj.co.uk> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:58 am, Siggi wrote:


https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=61711
Thanks guys. The 575 in my possession has no "bottom" plate, either over the EHT box nor the 'scope main chassis. The second photo is of the underside "as-is". I can't see how ether could be attached, and there's no exploded mechanical drawing in my manual?

John



Re: If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...

Pete Lancashire
 

So $230 bucks worst case on top of the cost of a TDS784D vs a Siglent.

I know there's not a lot of comparison other than you stick a probe in
there and you get a wiggly line interrupted by a massive amount of digital
electronics.

Thanks everybody I'll see what I can find in a TDS784D with a weak/fuzzy
display.

But I also seriously consider the new siglent family. More than a $1,000
list but I will call them and see what they've got in refurbs

I have no problem buying a refurb instrument.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 6:35 PM Bruce Lane <kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com> wrote:

On 29-Jun-18 18:24, Dave Casey wrote:

There are people marketing solutions for the dim CRTs on the old TDS
scopes. As far as I know, all use the rear panel VGA output to drive a
modern display mounted where the CRT used to be. A little Googling will
probably turn up a few how-tos.

Dave Casey
Case in point:

http://www.simmconnlabs.com/1401/2606.html

I used one of these kits to bring my TDS784D back to life (dying
CRT,
what else is new?) The result was nothing short of amazing.

Happy tweaking.


--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)




Re: If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...

Bruce Lane
 

On 29-Jun-18 18:24, Dave Casey wrote:

There are people marketing solutions for the dim CRTs on the old TDS
scopes. As far as I know, all use the rear panel VGA output to drive a
modern display mounted where the CRT used to be. A little Googling will
probably turn up a few how-tos.

Dave Casey
Case in point:

http://www.simmconnlabs.com/1401/2606.html

I used one of these kits to bring my TDS784D back to life (dying CRT,
what else is new?) The result was nothing short of amazing.

Happy tweaking.


--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

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