Date   

Re: My 2462A died suddenly

ti8jlh
 

El 16/11/2017 a las 06:28 p.m., machine guy machineguy59@yahoo.com
[TekScopes] escribió:

First, I assume you are aware that the power supply will not operate
properly without a load and may in fact be damaged if operated without
a load. After that, I am very doubtful that the problem is caused by
U1030 (a TL494). The operation of U1030 depends on voltage from the
collector of Q1021 and you measured that to be zero. I am not
concerned that you have a TL594 instead of a TL494, I think TL594 is a
suitable substitute for a TL494. So I suggest you not change TL494
without more information.
Second, I assume you are aware that measurements in this area are
directly connected to mains power and can be dangerous. It is
advisable that you use an isolation transformer to remove the scope
from direct mains connections when working in this area. After that,
the zero voltage on Q1021 collector is a key indicator that the PSU is
not starting at all. You may want to refer to the service manual
theory of operation for the PSU and the key role that Q1021 plays in
start up and static operation. Specifically, the conduction of Q1021
depends on base current drive from Q1022 and Q1022 can be shut down by
over-current sensed by Q1040. More measurement in this area may give
a clue to why there is no voltage on the collector of Q1021. I
suspect the collector voltage on Q1040 will be low (say less than 6
volts).
Did you check the resistance of R1020 and the leakage of C1025?

On Thursday, November 16, 2017, 4:58:03 PM CST, Joachim Lange
ti8jlh@gmail.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hello everybody,
I hope you can help me repairing the PSU of my 2465A.
I took out the power supply and connected it to power. The fuses all are
ok. I coud see that there is a voltage at the emitter of Q1021. Not
exactly 13.2V but one more Volt. At the colector of the same Q1021 there
is 0V.
I revised all the resistors and also Q1021, Q1022, Q1030, Q1040 and
Q1050. Also all the CR's (diodes).All these components are good.
I did not pull out U1030 because I am a little unsecure doing that and I
don't have a TL494. The scope has a TL594 instead. Are they the same?
I will look at the computer PS I have laying around because I think
these ICs are installed in some of those.
But please could anybody tell me if this could be the failure?
I have some other questions about the caps in this PSU but I will make
them later.
Thank you very much for your advises.

Joachim TI8JLH

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for your fast answer.
Yes the resistance R1020 is ok and C1025 looks healty.
Tomorrow I will assemble the two parts and look for the voltage on the
collector of Q1021.
I was searching for the theory of operation on the web because my manual
don¨t have it. I found one for 2465B.
The low power supplies are the same for both models.
I will write tomorrow with more.
Thank you


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 7A13 Vc readout options

Ed Breya
 

The output level shifting and DACing can readily be done with analog switches like the DG200 series, and weighting resistors - only 4-bits-worth is needed. In my readout exerciser, I chose to use DAC-08s instead - I have lots of them, they take less space than the switch/resistor combos, and their operating conditions and output range are a beautiful match to the RO requirements. I have set aside all I have (maybe a couple dozen) for custom 7K readout work.

For synchronizing, I made a 10-input diode/CD4093 Schmitt NAND gate that does the level shift and makes the "TS CLK" signal at 0/+5V. Likewise, a single input one produces the "TS1 RST" signal. These two signals operate a (half of a CD4518) divide by 10 counter to provide a BCD representation of all ten time slots, ready to interface with 5V logic.

For general purpose RO operation with full flexibility, you'd want full access to all the lines, but in this case, for example, only the lower RO row and column are needed, and only the time slots necessary to write the four digits and control the decimal points and write polarity symbols if wanted. This may simplify the decoding and interface requirements. For the 0-9 digits, the row current is constant, so a 4-bit column DAC can write the digits, while the row current likely only needs a few other values that can be done with switched resistors, depending on decimal point and polarity drive.

Ed


Re: DIY TD Pulser

 

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:41:29 +0000, you wrote:

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 at 19:18 David davidwhess@gmail.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Why can't you use the random sampling capability on the 7T11? Then at
least no delay line should be required. A power divider might still
be desirable to separate the sampling kickout from the trigger.
Yeah, I should try that. My 7T11 was pretty beat up when I got it, and when
I tried random sampling on the QuckStart scope test board, it looked like
all-jitter.
Random sampling mode is tricky to use on mine but so is sequential
sampling mode. Sometimes one mode works better than the other. Under
the best circumstances, I can switch between them without any
problems.


Re: adjusting DAC REF voltage on 2465A

 

On 16 Nov 2017 15:06:18 +0000, you wrote:

1-I know the trace becomes dim for fast sweeps but this one looks way too dim in my opinion. At 5ns/div it is practically invisible. even at 10ns/div it is not usable as it is too dim even though the focus is not bad. I think there should be a way to at least make it a bit more visible.
At the fastest sweep speeds, the trigger or sweep rate becomes
important for maintaining high brightness. To verify if there is a
problem, how is the brightness of just the trace with no trigger when
automatic mode is used?

Alternatively, how is the brightness when a high frequency signal is
the trigger source?

I ran some tests on my 2445B with automatic sweep and assuming the
brightness was not automatically adjusted, the trace should be half
brightness at 200ns/div where the sweep time and minimum holdoff
become identical so the beam is visible for 50% of the time. At
100ns/div and faster on my 2445B, the brightness is automatically
increased to compensate and actually makes the trace brighter albeit
less well focused.

With the above in mind, measuring the duty cycle of the A-gate output
signal located on the back panel of the oscilloscope should reveal
roughly a 50% duty cycle at 200ns/div. Note that the x10 horizontal
magnification has no effect on sweep rate or the A-gate signal.

2-yes but my question was that why R1842 ends up at its far most CCW position while there is need for more room for better adjustment in Step 5 of CAL08. It was already pretty close to that position before I did CAL08 and there was little room left. Now I am hitting the CCW limit and needed more room.
It does seem like something is wrong. My guess is that either your
2465A is spending too much time in holdoff of the beam intensity is
low. The measurement of the A-gate signal discussed above should
resolve which of these is causing the problem.


Re: Power transformer for 575

Reed Dickinson
 

The transformer in my 575 has leaked a nasty form of wax all over the
base plate and rapidly blows 5 Amp fuses. I have checked all the
supplies and no unusual readings was noted. A few years ago I had a 570
that also had a defective transformer. I had it rewound by a man in
Maine and it worked perfectly once reinstalled.

Reed

On 11/16/2017 11:27 AM, aodiversen@concepts.nl [TekScopes] wrote:

Wonder what's wrong with the transformer? Not just a breakdown of the
CRT heater winding?
Albert


---In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, <reed714@...> wrote :

Hi Gang:

I am seeking a power transformer, part number 120-095 (old numbering
system) or 120-0095-XX (new numbering system). It is used in the 575
curve tracer.
....
Reed Dickinson
reed714@... mailto:reed714@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: My 2462A died suddenly

 

First, I assume you are aware that the power supply will not operate properly without a load and may in fact be damaged if operated without a load.  After that, I am very doubtful that the problem is caused by U1030 (a TL494).  The operation of U1030 depends on voltage from the collector of Q1021 and you measured that to be zero.  I am not concerned that you have a TL594 instead of a TL494, I think TL594 is a suitable substitute for a TL494.  So I suggest you not change TL494 without more information.
Second, I assume you are aware that measurements in this area are directly connected to mains power and can be dangerous.  It is advisable that you use an isolation transformer to remove the scope from direct mains connections when working in this area.  After that, the zero voltage on Q1021 collector is a key indicator that the PSU is not starting at all.  You may want to refer to the service manual theory of operation for the PSU and the key role that Q1021 plays in start up and static operation.  Specifically, the conduction of Q1021 depends on base current drive from Q1022 and Q1022 can be shut down by over-current sensed by Q1040.  More measurement in this area may give a clue to why there is no voltage on the collector of Q1021.  I suspect the collector voltage on Q1040 will be low (say less than 6 volts).
Did you check the resistance of R1020 and the leakage of C1025?

On Thursday, November 16, 2017, 4:58:03 PM CST, Joachim Lange ti8jlh@gmail.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Hello everybody,
I hope you can help me repairing the PSU of my 2465A.
I took out the power supply and connected it to power. The fuses all are
ok. I coud see that there is a voltage at the emitter of Q1021. Not
exactly 13.2V but one more Volt. At the colector of the same Q1021 there
is 0V.
I revised all the resistors and also Q1021, Q1022, Q1030, Q1040 and
Q1050. Also all the CR's (diodes).All these components are good.
I did not pull out U1030 because I am a little unsecure doing that and I
don't have a TL494. The scope has a TL594 instead. Are they the same?
I will look at the computer PS I have laying around because I think
these ICs are installed in some of those.
But please could anybody tell me if this could be the failure?
I have some other questions about the caps in this PSU but I will make
them later.
Thank you very much for your advises.

Joachim TI8JLH




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Power transformer for 575

Bob Koller <testtech@...>
 

Email sent.


Re: 7A13 Vc readout options

 

On 16 Nov 2017 17:56:20 +0000, you wrote:

David wrote: "With one exception that I know of which I would not care to use,
practically all microcontroller ADCs lack the resolution and accuracy
of the 4000 count integrating ADC Tektronix implemented."
I'd recommend using more or less the DVM system from the 7A13 LED version, with the 3814 and support logic replaced by the uC operation. Tek managed to do the analog portion with a single LM324 quad opamp and some support circuitry. This circuit makes the Vc and its negative version, and does the ramp and comparator too, providing enough resolution and accuracy for the application - pretty slick, I think, for a common, ordinary OA. Overall, it has a 40,000 count range, but only uses about 10,000, and displays 4 full digits. I was impressed by the remarkable stability of the LED readout in these units. They were all rock-solid, except for one that was very jumpy, and fixed by working the controls over enough times to clean it up - it was a switch/pot issue, and had nothing to do with the measuring circuit.

The mechanical readout version makes the +/- Vc in a somewhat different way, but the same A/D principle could work with it to read the Vc. So, the mechanical part can be ignored if defective, and the readout would be nicely right there on-screen.

Imagine this analog section, operated by the uC, and instead of decoding to seven-segment LEDs, the result is sent to DACs for internal readout. There is of course more to be done to synchronize with the RO timing, run the decimal points, and other overhead, depending on what else is desired to put on-screen. For example, the polarity can be indicated, and other characters too.

I found some of my notes on the readout exerciser section of my test plug-in, and will put up some more info after I recall WTH I did - it was about a year ago, so the details have faded from my medium-term memory.

Ed
I used the 7B85 as a model for how the 7A13 CRT readout could have
been done and the 7B15 may be an even better example. But as Dave
Wise points out, a design relying on the Tektronix DVM ICs salvaged
from 7B85s, 7B15s, and spectrum analyzers would present severe
availability problems.

I suggested the inexpensive LTC2451/2/3 delta-sigma converter because
if one can put up with a SOT-23 sized device, then it is actually less
expensive than the many parts needed to implement an integrating slope
or voltage-to-frequency converter. These days for parts selection,
packaging is utmost on my mind and I would have preferred a DIP or SO
part however the larger SOT parts are not too bad. There are
alternatives and parts with better performance.

A discrete integrating slope or voltage-to-frequency converter would
be fun but more complex, cost more, and take more space. Performance
verification would be more difficult. Depending on the timing
requirements, it could make it difficult to use a simpler
microcontroller for both ADC and readout functions.

Interfacing between the microcontroller and 1-of-10 readout signals is
interesting. The current sink to drive the readout signals requires
negative voltage compliance from ground and Tektronix used the -15
volt time-slot signals from the readout board in the mainframe for
this.

For a microcontroller operating between ground and +5 volts, this will
require a level shift. This might be as simple as an NPN current
mirror off of the -15 supply which reflects positive currents
generated by the microcontroller. I think this is easier than moving
the microcontroller ground to -15 volts or some other negative voltage
to provide the necessary compliance but either feasible.

There may be a readout calibration issue if care is not used. The
currents depend on the level of the -15 volt time-slot pulses supplied
from the readout timer IC through readout time slot counter IC. This
voltage varies depending on the mainframe power supply and how the
readout timer IC and readout time slot counter IC behave. The readout
board is calibrated against itself so if a separate reference is used
to generate the currents, then they may not be accurate for every
mainframe. So the -15 volt level of the time-slot pulses, -15 volt
supply, or maybe the +15 volt supply should be used as a reference for
the currents. The 1-of-10 ADCs on the readout board use the +15 volt
supply as a reference so I am not sure which of these three sources
would work the best.


My 2462A died suddenly

ti8jlh
 

Hello everybody,
I hope you can help me repairing the PSU of my 2465A.
I took out the power supply and connected it to power. The fuses all are ok. I coud see that there is a voltage at the emitter of Q1021. Not exactly 13.2V but one more Volt. At the colector of the same Q1021 there is 0V.
I revised all the resistors and also Q1021, Q1022, Q1030, Q1040 and Q1050. Also all the CR's (diodes).All these components are good.
I did not pull out U1030 because I am a little unsecure doing that and I don't have a TL494. The scope has a TL594 instead. Are they the same?
I will look at the computer PS I have laying around because I think these ICs are installed in some of those.
But please could anybody tell me if this could be the failure?
I have some other questions about the caps in this PSU but I will make them later.
Thank you very much for your advises.

Joachim TI8JLH


Lissajous on acid....

John
 

Apologies if this has been covered before, but if anyone has not already seen what can be done with a couple of audio channels and an x-y display, have a look at Jerobeam Fenderson's work:
e.g.

https://youtu.be/qnL40CbuodU https://youtu.be/qnL40CbuodU



Astonishing. Listen to the audio at the same time as it's also very entertaining!



You can download a collection of wav files for $5 (warning, c 1.5gb from memory) and have a go on your 'scope. Or download a free pc application.



John


Re: TM500 high power cabinets

Joe Laffey
 

The tm5006 also has a high power compartment on the far right. The electrical characteristics appear a little different from the tm500 series, however.


--
Joe Laffey


On Nov 16, 2017, at 12:28 PM, HankC hankc918@yahoo.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

High power slots only exist on the TM504 & TM506 far right slot. HankC, Boston WA1HOS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Power transformer for 575

Albert Otten
 

Wonder what's wrong with the transformer? Not just a breakdown of the CRT heater winding?
Albert


---In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, <reed714@...> wrote :

Hi Gang:

I am seeking a power transformer, part number 120-095 (old numbering
system) or 120-0095-XX (new numbering system). It is used in the 575
curve tracer.
....
Reed Dickinson
reed714@... mailto:reed714@...


Re: TM500 high power cabinets

 

Also, in every single TM506/504 cabinet I have ever seen, there is a STICKER that marks the right hand slot as high power, so you never have to guess which one it is. I thought the TM515 also had a high power slot, but both physical examination and the manual say no.

The frame spec says 1.3A for standard, and 4A for he high power compartment on the +11.5V supply, and 60VA vs. 25VA on the 25VAC windings. It adds some total max. 17.5VAC VA numbers as 90VA vs. 30VA, so the available power is quite significant. Total given is 45Wdc and 125VAac for the high power slot.


I had never realized it was so high.


all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc,ca)
sphere research corp.


Re: 2430A Repet fail

 

Doesn't the 2430A still have a CCD calibration procedure? Ah, I see
that it does not. That considerably simplifies things since it is two
fewer things to fail.

The 2430A service manual is pretty detailed about what various
failures mean and mentions that they may indicate the calibration has
drifted rather than a hardware problem.

If the 9300 error does not repeat after cleaning and calibration, then
it may indicate nothing was wrong with the hardware. Otherwise the
manual says to do the Jitter Correction Troubleshooting procedure
wherever that is.

On 16 Nov 2017 18:15:48 +0000, you wrote:

Thanks,

I'll investigate these. Funny, that today I switched it on, and it passed all tests. So it is some kind of intermittent problem, but will clean and reseat the hybrids.
Fortunately the 2430A is not that hard to calibrate, it has a much simpler procedure than the 2440. The 2440 has 5 times the sample rate, so no wonder.

Szabolcs


Re: TM500 high power cabinets

 

High power slots only exist on the TM504 & TM506 far right slot. HankC, Boston WA1HOS


Re: Power transformer for 575

 

The Tektronix lifetime guarantee for their transformers was ultimately
limited to however long Tektronix continued to service them for which
I can hardly blame them.

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:15:49 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

I thought those transformers had a lifetime guarantee.

Bob


Re: 2430A Repet fail

Szabolcs Szigeti
 

Thanks,

I'll investigate these. Funny, that today I switched it on, and it passed all tests. So it is some kind of intermittent problem, but will clean and reseat the hybrids.
Fortunately the 2430A is not that hard to calibrate, it has a much simpler procedure than the 2440. The 2440 has 5 times the sample rate, so no wonder.

Szabolcs


Re: 7A13 Vc readout options

Ed Breya
 

David wrote: "With one exception that I know of which I would not care to use,
practically all microcontroller ADCs lack the resolution and accuracy
of the 4000 count integrating ADC Tektronix implemented."

I'd recommend using more or less the DVM system from the 7A13 LED version, with the 3814 and support logic replaced by the uC operation. Tek managed to do the analog portion with a single LM324 quad opamp and some support circuitry. This circuit makes the Vc and its negative version, and does the ramp and comparator too, providing enough resolution and accuracy for the application - pretty slick, I think, for a common, ordinary OA. Overall, it has a 40,000 count range, but only uses about 10,000, and displays 4 full digits. I was impressed by the remarkable stability of the LED readout in these units. They were all rock-solid, except for one that was very jumpy, and fixed by working the controls over enough times to clean it up - it was a switch/pot issue, and had nothing to do with the measuring circuit.

The mechanical readout version makes the +/- Vc in a somewhat different way, but the same A/D principle could work with it to read the Vc. So, the mechanical part can be ignored if defective, and the readout would be nicely right there on-screen.

Imagine this analog section, operated by the uC, and instead of decoding to seven-segment LEDs, the result is sent to DACs for internal readout. There is of course more to be done to synchronize with the RO timing, run the decimal points, and other overhead, depending on what else is desired to put on-screen. For example, the polarity can be indicated, and other characters too.

I found some of my notes on the readout exerciser section of my test plug-in, and will put up some more info after I recall WTH I did - it was about a year ago, so the details have faded from my medium-term memory.

Ed


Re: Tektronicx 465 needs help

 

How does the bending change, if at all, when the horizontal and
vertical position are adjusted?

Does the band remain as the sweep speed is increased to 100us/div and
10 us/div? This will reveal if the bend is caused by 60 Hz
interference from the power line.

Are the horizontal and vertical deflection accurate? This will reveal
if the CRT voltages are correct.

Does the calibrator output signal show the same "bend"?

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:35:30 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

Hello!
I have a Tektronix 465 that bends down the signal at the right end in the CRT screen, this is happening with the two channels, do you have an idea why? which circuit do I have to check?
Thank you in advance for your help!


Re: Power transformer for 575

Bob Albert
 

I thought those transformers had a lifetime guarantee.
Bob

On Thursday, November 16, 2017, 9:08:47 AM PST, joseph@danyabutter.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Reed,

Saw one on eBay (Italy) but $160 is a hard pill to swallow. One sold on ebay earlier for around $160.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/TEKTRONIX-TYPE-575-Curve-Tracer-Transformer-T601-120-0095-01-/302432044724?hash=item466a5ac6b4%3Ag%3AhvgAAOSwr6RZpV%7Ec&_trkparms=pageci%253A04d5f54d-8cfb-11e7-9f0b-74dbd1808cb0%257Cparentrq%253A2fbe168715e0aa18f85c5825fffe767e%257Ciid%253A20 https://www.ebay.it/itm/TEKTRONIX-TYPE-575-Curve-Tracer-Transformer-T601-120-0095-01-/302432044724?hash=item466a5ac6b4%3Ag%3AhvgAAOSwr6RZpV%7Ec&_trkparms=pageci%253A04d5f54d-8cfb-11e7-9f0b-74dbd1808cb0%257Cparentrq%253A2fbe168715e0aa18f85c5825fffe767e%257Ciid%253A20

The 575 is quite a specimen if you are into that. I'd check whether the 575 still works by using external power before the complete restoration with associated costs. Maybe is was already working before the transformer failed and you only need to replace the transformer.

Have fun.




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