Date   
Re: P6015A HV probe

 

It would not be that dangerous but it would destroy the probe.

Follow the refilling procedure described in the manual but make sure
to add too much butane and then bleed it off as described to release
any remaining air. Just like with freon 114, some remaining liquid
butane should be visible. Any remaining gas mixture will then be far
outside the explosive limits.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 19:26:55 +0000, you wrote:

With butane you have to be sure, to load the probe with NO air and by
this with NO oxygen. Else you may have a inflamable mixture, which could
build a real bomb, if arcing happens.

Re: P6015A HV probe

 

Sure it makes a difference but it also makes a difference in
dielectric constant between liquid and gaseous form. I deliberately
used the numbers for dielectric strength in gaseous form.

I gather that freon 114 was deliberately used as a gaseous dielectric
by others for the same reason Tektronix used it; boiling below room
temperature allows it to positively displace air in the device and its
low vapor pressure allows simple low pressure construction and the
maintenance of a liquid reserve to maintain positive pressure. Butane
has all of those advantages as well but of course it is flammable but
I do not really consider that a serious problem in this application
where the volume is so low.

The slightly higher vapor pressure of butane over freon 114 should
somewhat make up for its lower dielectric strength if that is a
problem. In any event, it is cheap, readily available, and an
improvement over using nothing. I have been reluctant to purchase one
of the older probes but this changes my mind.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 19:09:26 +0000, you wrote:

Does it make a difference that it's in gaseous form?

On Nov 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, David @DWH<mailto:@DWH> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

Re: P6015A HV probe

Herbert
 

With butane you have to be sure, to load the probe with NO air and by
this with NO oxygen. Else you may have a inflamable mixture, which could
build a real bomb, if arcing happens.



Am 09.11.2017 19:09, schrieb David Wise david_wise@... [TekScopes]:



Does it make a difference that it's in gaseous form?

On Nov 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, David
@DWH<mailto:@DWH> [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:34:43 -0000, you wrote:

You know, I have looked long and hard at various replacements for FC114
in recent years, and I had
not considered butane.

But looking at the NIST site for FC114 you get 1.83 atmospheres at 20C,
and with butane you get 2
atmospheres. So similar enough not to lose too much sleep over.

And the dielectric constant of butane gas at 2atm is, not surprisingly
very close to unity 1.0056

I haven't found any data for the gas phase dielectric of FC114, but it
will be likewise very close
to unity.

So, very cautiously, it would appear that butane is a possible
replacement for unobtainium FC114.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>
[mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 10:45
To: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570

------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH<mailto:@DWH>>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



Re: Tek 547 A Sweep display during retrace

Dave Wise
 

2N5401 is 6pf vs 2.3 . It will be much slower in this application.

Re: P6015A HV probe

Dave Wise
 

Does it make a difference that it's in gaseous form?

On Nov 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, David @DWH<mailto:@DWH> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:34:43 -0000, you wrote:

You know, I have looked long and hard at various replacements for FC114 in recent years, and I had
not considered butane.

But looking at the NIST site for FC114 you get 1.83 atmospheres at 20C, and with butane you get 2
atmospheres. So similar enough not to lose too much sleep over.

And the dielectric constant of butane gas at 2atm is, not surprisingly very close to unity 1.0056

I haven't found any data for the gas phase dielectric of FC114, but it will be likewise very close
to unity.

So, very cautiously, it would appear that butane is a possible replacement for unobtainium FC114.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...> [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 10:45
To: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570


------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH<mailto:@DWH>>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Re: Replacing BR-2/3A Batteries

 

I had detailed notes from when I looked into this a couple years ago.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 10:40:13 -0600, you wrote:

Thanks to Mitch and David Hess for answering my battery question, with David as usual exhibiting an in-depth knowledge of almost everything. Jake

Re: P6015A HV probe

 

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:34:43 -0000, you wrote:

You know, I have looked long and hard at various replacements for FC114 in recent years, and I had
not considered butane.

But looking at the NIST site for FC114 you get 1.83 atmospheres at 20C, and with butane you get 2
atmospheres. So similar enough not to lose too much sleep over.

And the dielectric constant of butane gas at 2atm is, not surprisingly very close to unity 1.0056

I haven't found any data for the gas phase dielectric of FC114, but it will be likewise very close
to unity.

So, very cautiously, it would appear that butane is a possible replacement for unobtainium FC114.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 10:45
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570

Re: P6015A HV probe

Vince Vielhaber
 

What does this post have to do with a HV probe? Let's keep politics out
of this. You really don't want to get me started!

On the subject of the HV probe, there is a non-A version in the pics that
Walter just posted a link to. Looks to be complete with a can of fluid.

Vince.

There are environmental ignorants all over the world...
not only D. Trump but a lot more people are in the idea
" after me the flood ".

Those people should use toilet cleaner as mouthwash, over the time this
may solve their problems in brain !!!





Am 09.11.2017 18:36, schrieb Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@...
[TekScopes]:


I'm very rarely ashamed to be in this group.
This is one of those times.

ST

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, n2lym@... [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...> wrote:


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

Re: P6015A HV probe

Herbert
 

There are environmental ignorants all over the world...
not only D. Trump but a lot more people are in the idea
" after me the flood ".

Those people should use toilet cleaner as mouthwash, over the time this
may solve their problems in brain !!!





Am 09.11.2017 18:36, schrieb Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@...
[TekScopes]:



I'm very rarely ashamed to be in this group.
This is one of those times.

ST

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, n2lym@... [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...> wrote:


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

Re: Preliminary PIcs for the Lake City test gear

Jeff Davis
 

Hi Walter,


Sorry I didn't reply earlier. I am interested the the 500 series plugins.


Thanks for doing this for the family. Looks like a ton of work.


Best regards,

Jeff


________________________________
From: TekScopes@... <TekScopes@...> on behalf of @walter2 [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:45 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Preliminary PIcs for the Lake City test gear



Here s a very preliminary set of pics of the gear from Jerry's Lake City Technical operation. they are a bit confusing as to exactly how many of each type are present, and nothing is shown powered on.


Hopefully that will get corrected this weekend, and pics organized by type (to clearly show quantity and operation) will be available. At this stage, it is not possible to fully test every item, but an effort is being made to remove anything clearly not operational, and to show it working if possible. Keep in mind, all items will be sold as-is, based on the finel pics.


Thanks to those that have replied to me directly about your interest, you will get the priced list and better pics first and a chance to tag the items you want.


first pics are here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/158247349@N03/albums/72157688936881074 https://www.flickr.com/photos/158247349@N03/albums/72157688936881074



all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Preliminary PIcs for the Lake City test gear

 

Here s a very preliminary set of pics of the gear from Jerry's Lake City Technical operation. they are a bit confusing as to exactly how many of each type are present, and nothing is shown powered on.


Hopefully that will get corrected this weekend, and pics organized by type (to clearly show quantity and operation) will be available. At this stage, it is not possible to fully test every item, but an effort is being made to remove anything clearly not operational, and to show it working if possible. Keep in mind, all items will be sold as-is, based on the finel pics.


Thanks to those that have replied to me directly about your interest, you will get the priced list and better pics first and a chance to tag the items you want.


first pics are here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/158247349@N03/albums/72157688936881074 https://www.flickr.com/photos/158247349@N03/albums/72157688936881074



all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test

Re: P6015A HV probe

stefan_trethan
 

I'm very rarely ashamed to be in this group.
This is one of those times.

ST

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, n2lym@... [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...> wrote:


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

Re: P6015A HV probe

Mike Santas
 

The P6015 had a liquid freon dielectric. The P6015A has a solid silicon potting, no liquid, performance is subpar. Look at dow corning 734.




Mike


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

Re: Tek 547 A Sweep display during retrace

 

I would try a 2N5401 which is my go-to high voltage small signal PNP
just to see if it works well enough; Tektronix used these in z-axis
amplifiers. After that and sticking with common transistors, maybe
the KSA992 and BC556 which have lower capacitance.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 15:27:24 +0000, you wrote:

...

The second criterion is speed. Q373 has to switch a 63V swing as fast as possible.
The main limit on speed in this case is collector capacitance rather than transition frequency. Storage and fall time are not factors since D372 prevents Q373 from saturating.

So you want a 70V (or more) transistor with small Cob.
According to the Common Design Parts Catalog, Cob for the 2N2207 is 2.3pF . The replacement doesn't have to be Germanium, but you will have a hard time finding a Silicon part with a collector that nimble.

HTH,
Dave Wise

Re: P6015A HV probe

Herbert
 

Hi,

if I am not wrong, the P6015A was filled with a silicon oil ???

I have filled my P6015 ( without the A ) with a silicon oil of Wacker
Chemie Powersil Fluid TR50.

The probe needed to be realigned and the bandwidth was shrinking down to
10 MHz, but with a good isolation and less environmental problems.

As far as I know, the original fluid for the P6015 ( without A )was
banned ( Freon 114 )and is no longer sold out of legal reasons

So... it works !

Herbert


Am 09.11.2017 16:26, schrieb Miguel Gullon harrimansat@...
[TekScopes]:



http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de noviembre de 2017 16:01
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.

I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.

It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.

If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.

Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?

-Chuck Harris

'Colin Herbert'
colingherbert@...<mailto:colingherbert@...>
[TekScopes] wrote:
Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe
that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use
silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is
a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the
Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.



Re: P6015A HV probe

Herbert
 

Hi,

if I am not wrong, the P6915A was filled with a silicon oil ???

I have filled my P6015 ( without the A ) with a silicon oil of Wacker
Chemie Powersil Fluid TR50.

The probe needed to be realigned and the bandwirth was shrinking down to
10 MHz, but with a good isolation and less environmental problems.

So... it works !

Jerbert


Am 09.11.2017 16:26, schrieb Miguel Gullon harrimansat@...
[TekScopes]:



http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de noviembre de 2017 16:01
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.

I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.

It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.

If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.

Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?

-Chuck Harris

'Colin Herbert'
colingherbert@...<mailto:colingherbert@...>
[TekScopes] wrote:
Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe
that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use
silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is
a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the
Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.



Re: P6015A HV probe

 

No - definitely not that - the stuff used to fill the 6015A was more like a liquid with a very specific dielectric constant.

D.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 16:27
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/

Re: P6015A HV probe

Colin Herbert
 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 15:01
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe





A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.
I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.
It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.
If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.
Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?
I don’t. It is just that I have seen a P6015A for sale at what seems to be a reasonable price (£200 GBP) and I wondered if the dielectric fluid might need replacing or replenishing. From having a look at the manual, it would seem that these probes came with a charge of the silicone dielectric and probably don’t need any replenishment – or have I got it wrong?

Colin.
-

Chuck Harris
'Colin Herbert' colingherbert@... [TekScopes] wrote:
Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the >Freon. What I am looking for is a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Replacing BR-2/3A Batteries

John Dickens
 

Thanks to Mitch and David Hess for answering my battery question, with David as usual exhibiting an in-depth knowledge of almost everything. Jake

Re: P6015A HV probe

Miguel Work
 

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de noviembre de 2017 16:01
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.

I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.

It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.

If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.

Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?

-Chuck Harris

'Colin Herbert' colingherbert@...<mailto:colingherbert@...> [TekScopes] wrote:

Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.