Can we reset the base line on this thread ! So much of this is out of
context I cant tell what the base model the poster is working on
a 464? 465? 466? or 465B?. The subject line gives me no clue either???
Maybe even update the subject line on the thread or start a new thread

Change out what OP amp? in what circuit? I see no reference to op amp in
any of the quoted thread ?

I think if we wandered less and keep the subject line more meaningful
you might get more help ( my $.02 worth)

********************************************************************************
_David Hess Said: (I think??) "As far as I can tell though, the 465
always used tunnel diode triggering but I have yet to__
__see the compete early 465 schematics."

_David,et all: we have the early 465 manual with direct mention of all
serial numbers from B010100 through B175400 & Above ( that is pretty
close to complete for the "early versions" ) and the ALL have the tunnel
diodes in the trigger out. Ditto with the "newer" 465 manual for B250000
and above. Both the early and later manuals for the 465B also show
tunnel diodes in the A/B trigger ckts as well at least for serials
B010100 through B060000.

I think it is pretty safe to say that all 465/465B used tunnel diodes
in the A/B trigger ckt
**********************************************************************************


Dave
manuals@artekmanuals.com




On 3/28/2017 1:58 PM, David Berlind david@berlind.org [TekScopes] wrote:

ooh, so maybe I can swap out the opamp? how difficult is that?

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Bert Haskins bhaskins@chartermi.net
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

On 3/28/2017 12:19 PM, David davidwhess@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:

You should check the parts lists just to be sure however the 464 and
466 are part of the 465 group.

One thing I have not been able to track down however is the variations
of the 465 if there were any. The 464 and 466 have an early and late
version with the early version using tunnel diode triggering and a
late version using integrated triggering. As far as I can tell
though, the 465 always used tunnel diode triggering but I have yet to
see the compete early 465 schematics.

My guess is that the 464 and 466 were updated around 1980 when the
465B was released to replace the 465 and this was when they replaced
tunnel diode triggering with integrated triggering:

1973 Early 465 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1974 Early 466 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1975 Early 464 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering

1980? Late 466 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980? Late 464 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980 465B Alternate Sweep Integrated Triggering

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 07:11:33 -0700, you wrote:

Hey all, sorry to revive this thread, but quick follow up question
regarding similar models...

Are the 465 and 466 close enough in terms of parts that I might be

able to

part a 465 (particularly the fan motor) to fix the 466? Or the

other way

around?

The owner of the 465 says <https://nh.craigslist.org/

ele/6062570749.html>

the following,

"and now it appears that the CRT isn't producing a trace. The

illumination

function works on the display, but no trace."

Thanks!

DavidB

FWIW My 465B has tunnel diode triggering, I have had to replace three of
them since I've owned the scope .
FWIW2 At one time my B lost it's trace and the problem turned out to be
just a bad opamp in one of the voltage regulator circuits.
Easy fix!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Dave
Manuals@ArtekManuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com

There is a good quick reference for Tektronix probes here:

http://www.barrytech.com/tektronix/probes/tekprobes.html

The P6122 should definitely work with your 2213A as it was recommended
for the 22xx series.

The P6108 should work as far as I know but it looks like it was
recommended for the LA501 or DD501. That should not matter.

I see on your first photograph that the compensation is not quite set
right. Did you adjust the compensation on both probes? I believe the
compensation adjustment for both is on the BNC end. It is a little
trimmer capacitor.

*@DavidW *Thanks, OK, so if the op amp isn't the first place you'd look,
what would be your gut instinct on a failure to produce a trace?

ps: glad to see this discussion produced another advancement in the
understanding of the 465B! At least something good has become of it!

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:52 AM, David davidwhess@gmail.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It should not be difficult at all although that is an odd symptom if
one of the regulators was not operating correctly. It should have
affected more than the B sweep.

I thought maybe there was an operational amplifier buffering the delay
time control like on some other designs but no such luck; in the 465B
that entire circuit is discrete.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:58:25 -0700, you wrote:

ooh, so maybe I can swap out the opamp? how difficult is that?

FWIW2 At one time my B lost it's trace and the problem turned out to be
just a bad opamp in one of the voltage regulator circuits.
Easy fix!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It should not be difficult at all although that is an odd symptom if
one of the regulators was not operating correctly. It should have
affected more than the B sweep.

I thought maybe there was an operational amplifier buffering the delay
time control like on some other designs but no such luck; in the 465B
that entire circuit is discrete.

For the P6108 probe:

There is an adjustment on the bottom of the compensation box (the part with the BNC connector that connects to the scope). You connect the probe to the calibration source on the front of the scope and adjust that capacitor for a nice square corner waveform. Most likely you should use a non-metallic tuning tool but maybe a small screwdriver will work with this simple probe.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 13:52:35 -0400, you wrote:

FWIW My 465B has tunnel diode triggering, I have had to replace three of
them since I've owned the scope .

Bert Haskins

I made a mistake somewhere but maybe there is a bigger mystery.

The commonly available scan of the 465B service manual marked First
Printing April 1979 is missing schematic 6 which shows the A and B
trigger and I remember someone telling me that the 465B has integrated
triggering which would fit with the 468 so I just went with it.

But I see that I also have two different scans of schematic 6 which
both show tunnel diode triggering; one is marked Revision A September
1979 and the other is marked Serial Number B060000 and up.

So now my question is was the 465B ever upgraded to integrated
triggering? Maybe a later service manual shows this.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Bert.

Hehe, while updating my notes I see now that I *do* have the 465B
marked as using tunnel diode triggering but it is difficult to see. So
I was just going by memory and got it wrong and there is no mystery
here unless a later version of the 465B had integrated triggering.

The 2213A has an input of 1M/20pF. It does happen that the compensation
adjustment of any given probe is not within what the scope expects. One of
your probes is fine, with sharp corners, but the other is less so. Have you
found and adjusted the compensation of either? There should be a visible
screw-head in the box on the end of the probe-lead which has the BNC
connector to connect to the scope input, provided these are real Tek probes.

Colin.



From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 28 March 2017 19:11
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TekScopes] Probe adjust on Tektronix 2213A





Dear experts.


I have a Tektronix 2213A and 2 probes.


Probe 1. Tek P6122 (10:1 ATTN, 10 MOhm, 11pF)
Probe 2. Tek P6108 (10x, 100MHz, 10 MOhm. 13pF)


With probe 1 the square wave is good. (see: )
http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg


View on i.imgur.com http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg
Preview by Yahoo



With probe 2 the top and bottom edge are rounded. (see:)
http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg


View on i.imgur.com http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg
Preview by Yahoo




Why is that? Is that caused by the probe?









_____


<http://www.avg.com/internet-security> AVG logo

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/internet-security>

Isn't it the same knob as on a 465B?

Dear experts.


I have a Tektronix 2213A and 2 probes.


Probe 1. Tek P6122 (10:1 ATTN, 10 MOhm, 11pF)
Probe 2. Tek P6108 (10x, 100MHz, 10 MOhm. 13pF)


With probe 1 the square wave is good. (see: )
http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg


View on i.imgur.com http://i.imgur.com/odH7AKh.jpg
Preview by Yahoo



With probe 2 the top and bottom edge are rounded. (see:)
http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg


View on i.imgur.com http://i.imgur.com/COtNkWZ.jpg
Preview by Yahoo




Why is that? Is that caused by the probe?

ooh, so maybe I can swap out the opamp? how difficult is that?

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Bert Haskins bhaskins@chartermi.net
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

On 3/28/2017 12:19 PM, David davidwhess@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:

You should check the parts lists just to be sure however the 464 and
466 are part of the 465 group.

One thing I have not been able to track down however is the variations
of the 465 if there were any. The 464 and 466 have an early and late
version with the early version using tunnel diode triggering and a
late version using integrated triggering. As far as I can tell
though, the 465 always used tunnel diode triggering but I have yet to
see the compete early 465 schematics.

My guess is that the 464 and 466 were updated around 1980 when the
465B was released to replace the 465 and this was when they replaced
tunnel diode triggering with integrated triggering:

1973 Early 465 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1974 Early 466 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1975 Early 464 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering

1980? Late 466 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980? Late 464 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980 465B Alternate Sweep Integrated Triggering

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 07:11:33 -0700, you wrote:

Hey all, sorry to revive this thread, but quick follow up question
regarding similar models...

Are the 465 and 466 close enough in terms of parts that I might be

able to

part a 465 (particularly the fan motor) to fix the 466? Or the other way
around?

The owner of the 465 says <https://nh.craigslist.org/

ele/6062570749.html>

the following,

"and now it appears that the CRT isn't producing a trace. The

illumination

function works on the display, but no trace."

Thanks!

DavidB

FWIW My 465B has tunnel diode triggering, I have had to replace three of
them since I've owned the scope .
FWIW2 At one time my B lost it's trace and the problem turned out to be
just a bad opamp in one of the voltage regulator circuits.
Easy fix!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 3/28/2017 12:19 PM, David davidwhess@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:

You should check the parts lists just to be sure however the 464 and
466 are part of the 465 group.

One thing I have not been able to track down however is the variations
of the 465 if there were any. The 464 and 466 have an early and late
version with the early version using tunnel diode triggering and a
late version using integrated triggering. As far as I can tell
though, the 465 always used tunnel diode triggering but I have yet to
see the compete early 465 schematics.

My guess is that the 464 and 466 were updated around 1980 when the
465B was released to replace the 465 and this was when they replaced
tunnel diode triggering with integrated triggering:

1973 Early 465 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1974 Early 466 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1975 Early 464 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering

1980? Late 466 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980? Late 464 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980 465B Alternate Sweep Integrated Triggering

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 07:11:33 -0700, you wrote:

Hey all, sorry to revive this thread, but quick follow up question
regarding similar models...

Are the 465 and 466 close enough in terms of parts that I might be

able to

part a 465 (particularly the fan motor) to fix the 466? Or the other way
around?

The owner of the 465 says <https://nh.craigslist.org/ele/6062570749.html>
the following,

"and now it appears that the CRT isn't producing a trace. The

illumination

function works on the display, but no trace."

Thanks!

DavidB

FWIW My 465B has tunnel diode triggering, I have had to replace three of
them since I've owned the scope .
FWIW2 At one time my B lost it's trace and the problem turned out to be
just a bad opamp in one of the voltage regulator circuits.
Easy fix!

Thanks Colin.... I plead guilty your honor. I know that I could download
those manuals and sift through them but asked the question to the forum on
the off chance that someone happened to know the answer off the top of
their heads (and of course, you guys did NOT disappoint.. so thank you). I
double checked the scope that's for sale and clearly, it's a 465 as other
images on the net for the 465B show the front panel clearly marked as 465B
(and the one I'm looking at for parts lacks the "B").

*@DavidW,* thanks for your input too. One question... is there a serial #
range on the early vs. late model 466s? Just trying to figure out which one
of those I might have. Because if there's only one 465 and the age is
aligned with the early 466s, then I'm assuming that I might be able to more
easily "swing" the other direction too (bearing in mind that when I assume,
I become the first 3 letters of the word). Though I suspect a fan
replacement would be less surgery than fixing a absent trace (again, me
assuming).

One last question... in another thread about my 466, I talked about how my
fan growls for a while on startup before it eventually quiets down (to
which the consensus was that the fan is on its way out). I asked the
seller if his fan made any unusual noises on startup and he said it whines
for a bit and then its quiet. Does anyone have any thoughts on a whiny fan
at startup? Is that better or worse than a growly fan?

thanks all!

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:36 AM, 'Colin Herbert'
colingherbert@blueyonder.co.uk [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

So Dennis, why do you need a 7 pin base anyways? I think after 50
messages it's worth asking :^)

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:49 PM, David Wise david_wise@phoenix.com
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Mouser has three packs of 100 pins each in stock, $12.45 a pack.

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Dennis Tillman' dennis@ridesoft.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 9:08 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: A Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer for all Tek Semiconductor Curve Trace

Hi Bruce,
Vector still makes pins of the right diameter and length (Vector part
number: K24C/C) that I could press into a PC Board and make a plug that way,
but nobody seems to have these pins in stock.
Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 8:38 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: A Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer for all Tek
Semiconductor Curve Trace

Vector used to sell little extruded round aluminum cans with 7-pin and 9-pin
tube pin bases. The bases attached with side screws. These were used for
constructing special plug-in modules. I don't know if they are still in the
Vector product line.

Bruce, KG6OJI
------------------------------------
Posted by: brucekareen@aol.com
------------------------------------




------------------------------------
Posted by: "Dennis Tillman" <dennis@ridesoft.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links







------------------------------------

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

If so I'd like to piggy-back a small item to your order ...

Please contact me off-list to arrange.

Many thanks
Dave

Mouser has three packs of 100 pins each in stock, $12.45 a pack.

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Dennis Tillman' dennis@ridesoft.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 9:08 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: A Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer for all Tek Semiconductor Curve Trace

Hi Bruce,
Vector still makes pins of the right diameter and length (Vector part
number: K24C/C) that I could press into a PC Board and make a plug that way,
but nobody seems to have these pins in stock.
Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 8:38 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: A Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer for all Tek
Semiconductor Curve Trace

Vector used to sell little extruded round aluminum cans with 7-pin and 9-pin
tube pin bases. The bases attached with side screws. These were used for
constructing special plug-in modules. I don't know if they are still in the
Vector product line.

Bruce, KG6OJI
------------------------------------
Posted by: brucekareen@aol.com
------------------------------------




------------------------------------
Posted by: "Dennis Tillman" <dennis@ridesoft.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

I have just realised that Bill and Stan's Tektronix Resource Site at:



http://www.reprise.com/host/tektronix/home/default.asp



might be of use to you. The "Reference" page gives all sorts of comparisons
such as a CRT part number/Oscilloscope model database and transistor part
number/generic transistor number database.

You could do worse that downloading the Service Manuals for these two scopes
and check through the part-numbers yourself. It's a bit fiddly and, as David
says, check to make sure that the serial numbers on your scopes match up
with what the Service Manual covers. Since they are pretty much all free to
download, what do you have to lose?

Colin.

From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 28 March 2017 15:12
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek Instruction Manual (aka "Bible")





Hey all, sorry to revive this thread, but quick follow up question
regarding similar models...

Are the 465 and 466 close enough in terms of parts that I might be able to
part a 465 (particularly the fan motor) to fix the 466? Or the other way
around?

The owner of the 465 says <https://nh.craigslist.org/ele/6062570749.html>
the following,

"and now it appears that the CRT isn't producing a trace. The illumination
function works on the display, but no trace."

Thanks!

DavidB







_____


<http://www.avg.com/internet-security> AVG logo

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/internet-security>

Hi,

I have Service Manuals for 465, 465B and 466 scopes. The 465 and 466 would
appear to have pretty much the same fan motor and circuit. The circuit
number for the fan motor is B1690 in both cases, with Tek part number
147-0035-00. They are made by Siemens and the manufacturers number is
1AD3001-OA. This would suggest strongly that they can be swapped, but others
might know more certain from experience. However, the 465B is a rather
different thing; the fan motor isn't the same as the 465 and 466. I hope
this helps.

Colin.

PS. I think there may be an error on the fan motor circuit for the 466; it
shows a +5V on connector 9 of the motor, where the 465 circuit shows this as
+15V.



From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 28 March 2017 15:12
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek Instruction Manual (aka "Bible")





Hey all, sorry to revive this thread, but quick follow up question
regarding similar models...

Are the 465 and 466 close enough in terms of parts that I might be able to
part a 465 (particularly the fan motor) to fix the 466? Or the other way
around?

The owner of the 465 says <https://nh.craigslist.org/ele/6062570749.html>
the following,

"and now it appears that the CRT isn't producing a trace. The illumination
function works on the display, but no trace."

Thanks!

DavidB







_____


<http://www.avg.com/internet-security> AVG logo

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/internet-security>

You should check the parts lists just to be sure however the 464 and
466 are part of the 465 group.

One thing I have not been able to track down however is the variations
of the 465 if there were any. The 464 and 466 have an early and late
version with the early version using tunnel diode triggering and a
late version using integrated triggering. As far as I can tell
though, the 465 always used tunnel diode triggering but I have yet to
see the compete early 465 schematics.

My guess is that the 464 and 466 were updated around 1980 when the
465B was released to replace the 465 and this was when they replaced
tunnel diode triggering with integrated triggering:

1973 Early 465 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1974 Early 466 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering
1975 Early 464 Mixed Sweep Tunnel Diode Triggering

1980? Late 466 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980? Late 464 Mixed Sweep Integrated Triggering
1980 465B Alternate Sweep Integrated Triggering

Dennis,

On this page:



http://www.electrojumble.org/Valves_etc.htm



Item VH924 is an interesting item with a B7G plug and a Noval socket.
Reasonable price, too.

Colin.



From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 28 March 2017 15:56
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: A Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer for all Tek
Semiconductor Curve Trace





Hi Colin,
9-pin socket savers are available from every tube site I have checked. They
are even available direct from the manufacturers via Alibaba. The ones that
are impossible to find are the 7-pin. Those seem to be obsolete. No one is
making them. A few places have old stock at outrageous prices.
Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:58 AM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: A Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer for all Tek
Semiconductor Curve Trace

Dennis,
Is this any good to you?
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Tube_sockets_and_Accessories_9_PIN_tube
_socket/Novalplug_Noval_tube_base_adapter_2163
The price seems reasonable.

Colin.

Sent: 28 March 2017 06:25
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: A Vacuum Tube Curve Tracer for all Tek
Semiconductor Curve Trace

Hi Dave,
Thank you for your offer but for the moment I think I have a better
solution. The pins coming out of a tube base are about 1/4" (6.8mm). If I
try to push a longer pin into a tube socket it bottoms out at about 0.28"
(7.25mm). So I'm concerned that the 12mm pin length you have will cause
problems.

I have found a workable solution. Vector still makes pins that are the right
diameter and approximately the right length. They are meant to be pressed
into place in a PC Board through hole and then soldered to the pad
surrounding the hole. Since the vacuum tube curve tracer I was making will
ultimately be built on a printed circuit board I can work out a way to use
the Vector pins I found.

Dennis Tillman W7PF
------------------------------------
Posted by: "Colin Herbert" <colingherbert@blueyonder.co.uk>
------------------------------------





_____


<http://www.avg.com/internet-security> AVG logo

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/internet-security>

Given the image shows a part that's used, I assume RFE means"Removed From Equipment".

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ