Date   

Re: Update on 2465

Siggi
 

Hey Chuck,

thanks for the correction - can you share where you come by this
information?
Naively I looked at the HV and CRT circuits, and took the -900V line from
the HV supply towards the front of the CRT neck to go to an expansion mesh.
Hmmm, maybe just a case of RTFM :). The -900 is termed "slot lens voltage"
in the Cathode Supply section of the Theory of Operation.

Incidentally find that there's no contest between the spot size and trace
clarity between my 2465 and my 485, the 485 has a much clearer trace. At
one point I routed the X/Y/Z from my HP8566B's display unit to a scope for
diagnostics of the display unit, and the 485 was the only scope I own that
was able to resolve the detail. See <https://goo.gl/photos/21ASGFDsU2Zd9qA66>
I believe that display is 1024x1024.
Maybe this is just a sign that my 2465 needs some TLC, though after I got
the 2467 she'd be better with someone who'd use her more, probably :).
The dot size on my 2467 is quite absurd in comparison to either of those -
though it wins hands down on brightness (which is the MCP trade-off).

Siggi

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 at 10:14 Chuck Harris cfharris@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> wrote:



A minor nit: The 2465 family CRT does *not* have an
expansion mesh lens!

It uses a "box" lens based on a quadrapole design.

The quadrapole lens eliminates most of the distortion
and all of the flaring exhibited by the expansion mesh,
to the point where the beam size after expansion is almost
exactly the same as it would be with a longer CRT that
has no lens.

The 2465 family has a much shorter (2 inches) CRT with
a much larger (36% more area) screen than does the 454A.

If you could expand the 454A's screen the 36% from
8cm x 6.4ch to the 2465's 10cm x 8cm, the 454's dot
would be much larger than the 2465's.

The reason most people think the 2465 has a larger,
fuzzier beam, is because the beam incorporates all of
the extra noise due to its 400MHz deflection amplifier
bandwidth.

Reduce the bandwidth to 20MHz, and the beam size is
very compact.

-Chuck Harris


Re: TDS754D CRT

David Wilson
 

uppon taking the 754D apart I had a difficult time removing the front panel and I believe I developed a trick to remove it easier. On the right side remove the panel and carefully work your left to the CRT. A small flat screw driver will help the difficult tabs at the CRT end, gradually work with it and it will eventually come off. Helpful advice that seemed to work for me.


Re: Update on 2465

Chuck Harris
 

A minor nit: The 2465 family CRT does *not* have an
expansion mesh lens!

It uses a "box" lens based on a quadrapole design.

The quadrapole lens eliminates most of the distortion
and all of the flaring exhibited by the expansion mesh,
to the point where the beam size after expansion is almost
exactly the same as it would be with a longer CRT that
has no lens.

The 2465 family has a much shorter (2 inches) CRT with
a much larger (36% more area) screen than does the 454A.

If you could expand the 454A's screen the 36% from
8cm x 6.4ch to the 2465's 10cm x 8cm, the 454's dot
would be much larger than the 2465's.

The reason most people think the 2465 has a larger,
fuzzier beam, is because the beam incorporates all of
the extra noise due to its 400MHz deflection amplifier
bandwidth.

Reduce the bandwidth to 20MHz, and the beam size is
very compact.

-Chuck Harris

Sigurður Ásgeirsson siggi@... [TekScopes] wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 at 06:45 tatumj1@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> wrote:
Also, you shouldn't expect the 2465 to match your 454A for trace clarity or
dot size, as the 2465's CRT has an expansion mesh.


Re: Update on 2465

Siggi
 

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 at 06:45 tatumj1@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> wrote:



Good morning Siggi. It seems that the symptoms on this scope have
constantly changed from the time I turned it on. At first it only flashed a
few panel LEDs. Now, after warm up, seems to work close to normally, tend
now to think it may be the caps, As it gradually moves closer to working
properly, the distorted trace moves toward normal. I do think someone has
changed some of the caps. I don't think Tektronix installed the power
supply caps standing off the board on long leads more than 1/4 inch above
the board surface.

Intermittent trouble is the worst, I hope you get this sorted.
I am printing out all your responses to use as trouble shooting guide. I
appreciate your help very much.

My pleasure - please let us know what you find.
This has nothing to do with the problem we have been chasing, but I
noticed that the focus control only brings the screen into focus near the
full counter clockwise position of the pot. I am looking in the manual at
the focus control circuit for an adjustment for this.

There is a CRT adjustment procedure in the service manual. Section 5
starts with power supplies, then goes on to the CRT.
The CRT adjustment procedure will have a bunch of interacting adjustments -
it could be e.g. that the geometry pot has drifted. It may also help for a
scope that's been stored for a long time, to let the CRT "bake" for a few
hours to days with a low-intensity beam. See e.g. <
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dim-oscilloscope-screen/msg554039/#msg554039
.
Also, you shouldn't expect the 2465 to match your 454A for trace clarity or
dot size, as the 2465's CRT has an expansion mesh.

I've only been through the CRT adjustment for my 2467, which has a very
different CRT, and it's been a couple of years, so I can't help much there.


Tektronix 434 storage scope below 500000 series.

John McGivern <john.mcgivern3@...>
 

Hi everyone Happy New Year, I posted a fault on above scope (shorted transistor) could anyone advise what possibly caused this transistor to fail? I sent to China for replacement should arrive in about a week. Can anyone advise how to check uA723 10 pin regulator as it is socketed so I can remove from circuit. Any advice is welcome.
Don't want to replace transistor and possibly short it again.
I have replaced most of the electrolytics in power supply that I could buy in UK.
I am struggling to understand how power supply switching transistor works.
Just a novice.
Kind regards, John.

Sent from my iPad


Re: New Member Dead 7704

 

Your oscilloscope is a complex instrument but it is very well documented. Our troubleshooting suggestions will help you to narrow down the source of the problems you are having. You need to start using the troubleshooting recommendations members of the group make and then report back what the results were if we are to help you.

Have you downloaded a manual yet for the scope mainframe and for each plugin you will own? In it you will find all of the mechanical drawings and those will show you the location of the readout boards.

If you don't know where to find a manual just ask us.

In my previous reply I suggested moving the plugin to another slot, horizontal or vertical to narrow down the problem to the scope or the plugin. You can put the timebase in a vertical slot (Left Vert or Right Vert). What you should see is the trace going vertical instead of horizontal but other than that it will work. You can put the plugin in the other horizontal slot (B Horiz) which will almost certainly change the random readout characters you are getting. What happened when you did this?

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 5:18 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: New Member Dead 7704

I have another plugin coming.
I'll see if that changes the display.
Another symptom; I let it cool down for an hour and powered it up.
After 1 minute, the display flashed 1 second. Readout and traces.
It did it again 1 minute later and then nothing for the next 20 minutes.
Holding the beam finder showed the squished readout and traces.

------------------------------------
Posted by: volvoboy242@...
------------------------------------


Re: Tek Scope Cart cross reference guide?

Scott Scheirman
 

Dave, Ed, and others, thanks for your quick replies. I’m ready for the next one that shows up locally.

73
Scott
AFS0WA


My first cart was a K212, …
check Tek Catalogs

The carts made specifically for 7K mainframes have a double-D (flatted) cam rod from side to side, …


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shipping rant

Leon Robinson
 

Back in 1970 my brother in law, a Field Service Engineer for NCR was involved in a
head on collision at 70 mph, He was in the hospital for 9 months.The other driver that was going the wrong way was killed, her blood alcohol level was sky hi.
Now back to Tektronix he had a Tek 453A in the back of a 1970 Chevell Station wagon,
The scope flew all the way to the Saftey Barrier Right behind my Brother in laws head,
almost broke the barrier.
The insurance company looked at the scope and wrote it off as a total loss. NCR sent it
to Tektronix Dallas, they pried the case off checked the 453A and put a new case on it
and sent it back. THAT IS RUGGED.
My Brother in law will be 76 next month, he is rugged too. Leon Robinson    K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.

From: "HPD hpdeutsch@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Shipping rant

  Jochen,

maybe you mixed it up with Motorola Products... ;-)

My Hameg dropped down last week 3 feet and the CRT was broken ;-(

Peter
=============================================
Am 04.01.2017 um 20:32 schrieb Jochen Feldhaar jochen_feldhaar@...
[TekScopes]:

Hi all,

in the late Seventies the founder of the German oscilloscope
manufacturer HAMEG (some sold as B&K in the US, and BBC Metrawatt) was
in negotations with someone from the purchasing department of a big
electronics store, who was trying to tell the founder that he had to
lower his selling price due to poor quality in the last months - pure BS.

How did he react? Well, he fetched the oscilloscope off the table, held
it with his arms spred horizontally (these were not as heavy as a
TEK....), and let the unit drop 1.5 metres while the oscilloscope was
SWITCHED ON!

Needless to say, this ended the discussion, because the scope worked
perfectly even after the drop.

Regards, Jochen DH6FAZ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shipping rant

Jokken Feldhaar
 

Hello Hans-Peter,

this story is from the founder himself, when we were driving between
different plants of the company. But remember, these were the
rathersturdy chassis of the last tube (except CRT) oscilloscopes. He was
an interesting person, and the stories of how he founded the company and
made it great were really interesting.

But the 408 for example, you just had to knockit lightly on the table
while operating, and the horizontal final stage would be shot because of
a short in the deflection plates in the CRT. Manufacturer at that time
was Toshiba. BTDT.

Regards, Jochen DH6FAZ


Am 04.01.2017 um 21:22 schrieb HPD hpdeutsch@... [TekScopes]:


Jochen,

maybe you mixed it up with Motorola Products... ;-)

My Hameg dropped down last week 3 feet and the CRT was broken ;-(

Peter
=============================================
Am 04.01.2017 um 20:32 schrieb Jochen Feldhaar jochen_feldhaar@...
[TekScopes]:

Hi all,

in the late Seventies the founder of the German oscilloscope
manufacturer HAMEG (some sold as B&K in the US, and BBC Metrawatt) was
in negotations with someone from the purchasing department of a big
electronics store, who was trying to tell the founder that he had to
lower his selling price due to poor quality in the last months -
pure BS.

How did he react? Well, he fetched the oscilloscope off the table, held
it with his arms spred horizontally (these were not as heavy as a
TEK....), and let the unit drop 1.5 metres while the oscilloscope was
SWITCHED ON!

Needless to say, this ended the discussion, because the scope worked
perfectly even after the drop.

Regards, Jochen DH6FAZ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shipping rant

Tom Gardner
 

On 04/01/17 18:31, laser92awd laser92awd@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Shipping scopes through UPS/FedEx/... is a science on its own, it
seems. It's just that packing material costs money and it also adds
weight to shipping which also increases costs - two things that buyers
(and sellers) don't realize.
Don't forget the "volumetric weight" (I think it is called), i.e. if you ship something big but light, the weight is irrelevant.

This can be easily tested with online shippers by selecting a representative weight and dimensions, and then seeing if increasing/decreasing the weight (or dimension) changes the overall cost. Surprisingly - to me - often there is no difference.


Re: Shipping rant

Heinz-Peter Deutsch
 

Jochen,

maybe you mixed it up with Motorola Products... ;-)

My Hameg dropped down last week 3 feet and the CRT was broken ;-(


Peter
=============================================
Am 04.01.2017 um 20:32 schrieb Jochen Feldhaar jochen_feldhaar@...
[TekScopes]:


Hi all,

in the late Seventies the founder of the German oscilloscope
manufacturer HAMEG (some sold as B&K in the US, and BBC Metrawatt) was
in negotations with someone from the purchasing department of a big
electronics store, who was trying to tell the founder that he had to
lower his selling price due to poor quality in the last months - pure BS.

How did he react? Well, he fetched the oscilloscope off the table, held
it with his arms spred horizontally (these were not as heavy as a
TEK....), and let the unit drop 1.5 metres while the oscilloscope was
SWITCHED ON!

Needless to say, this ended the discussion, because the scope worked
perfectly even after the drop.

Regards, Jochen DH6FAZ


Re: Shipping rant

Jokken Feldhaar
 

Hi all,

in the late Seventies the founder of the German oscilloscope
manufacturer HAMEG (some sold as B&K in the US, and BBC Metrawatt) was
in negotations with someone from the purchasing department of a big
electronics store, who was trying to tell the founder that he had to
lower his selling price due to poor quality in the last months - pure BS.

How did he react? Well, he fetched the oscilloscope off the table, held
it with his arms spred horizontally (these were not as heavy as a
TEK....), and let the unit drop 1.5 metres while the oscilloscope was
SWITCHED ON!

Needless to say, this ended the discussion, because the scope worked
perfectly even after the drop.

Regards, Jochen DH6FAZ


Am 04.01.2017 um 03:48 schrieb Dave Seiter d.seiter@... [TekScopes]:

Well, the good news is that since it's a Tek scope, if it's working
now, it probably will continue to do so.
Years ago I got a rack mount 502 or 503 (I forget which) that was
basically partially wrapped in one layer of the small bubble wrap in a
cardboard box. It actually survived.
-Dave

From: "Gary Robert Bosworth @grbosworth [TekScopes]"
<TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Shipping rant

I bought a 7000-Series Oscilloscope with plug-ins that had no packing at
all. It was in a single-thickness cardboard box, and components were
rolling around inside the box. I got the thing running, but who knows how
long it will last? Everyone should be warned about this. It is happening
far too often.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Paul Amaranth paul@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



Just received a 213 I bought off of ebay. It was nonfunctioning,
but looked to be in pretty good shape. I included a note to the
seller to pack it in bubble wrap and foam since they are somewhat
fagile.

Well, I received it today and it was the absolute worst packing job
I have ever seen.

The scope was in a paper grocery sack inside a medium flat rate box.
That was it, no other packing. The box was a little crushed looking.

The scope looks intact, but who knows about the CRT. I've had other
perfectly repairable scopes had their CRTs destroyed through bad
packing and the 200 series CRTs are particularly fragile.

Way to start the new year :-)

--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Rochester MI, USA
Aurora Group, Inc. | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix & Windows


--
Gary Robert Bosworth
@grbosworth
Tel: 310-317-2247

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shipping rant

bc
 

I've bought two fragile things off of eBay and luckily they survived.

My 2440 was virtually double boxed with bubble around the scope and
around the inside box - the packing looked very crappy looking but...
A+++! it worked, functional, scope and CRT survived, Job Well Done.

A CRT for the 2465 - it was bubble wrapped and then airbag packed
around, it also survived the shipping encounter. 

Sometimes I wonder whether a CRT  in a chassis, or CRT by itself would
more likely survive the journey.

Shipping scopes through UPS/FedEx/... is a science on its own, it
seems.  It's just that packing material costs money and it also adds
weight to shipping which also increases costs - two things that buyers
(and sellers) don't realize.

On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 13:58 -0500, Paul Amaranth paul@...
[TekScopes] wrote:

 



  


    
      
      
      Just received a 213 I bought off of ebay.  It was
nonfunctioning,

but looked to be in pretty good shape.  I included a note to the

seller to pack it in bubble wrap and foam since they are somewhat

fagile.



Well, I received it today and it was the absolute worst packing job

I have ever seen.



The scope was in a paper grocery sack inside a medium flat rate box.

That was it, no other packing.  The box was a little crushed looking.



The scope looks intact, but who knows about the CRT.  I've had other

perfectly repairable scopes had their CRTs destroyed through bad 

packing and the 200 series CRTs are particularly fragile.



Way to start the new year :-)






Re: Update on 2465

Joseph Tatum
 

I think this is a good idea. I have wound up having to work on too much test equipment before I could use it on what I needed it for.


Re: New Member Dead 7704

volvoboy242@...
 

I have another plugin coming.
I'll see if that changes the display.
Another symptom; I let it cool down for an hour and powered it up.
After 1 minute, the display flashed 1 second. Readout and traces.
It did it again 1 minute later and then nothing for the next 20 minutes.
Holding the beam finder showed the squished readout and traces.


Re: Update on 2465

Joseph Tatum
 

Good morning Siggi. It seems that the symptoms on this scope have constantly changed from the time I turned it on. At first it only flashed a few panel LEDs. Now, after warm up, seems to work close to normally, tend now to think it may be the caps, As it gradually moves closer to working properly, the distorted trace moves toward normal. I do think someone has changed some of the caps. I don't think Tektronix installed the power supply caps standing off the board on long leads more than 1/4 inch above the board surface.

I am printing out all your responses to use as trouble shooting guide. I appreciate your help very much.

This has nothing to do with the problem we have been chasing, but I noticed that the focus control only brings the screen into focus near the full counter clockwise position of the pot. I am looking in the manual at the focus control circuit for an adjustment for this.

I do not think my friend would have made any adjustment. He was so meticulous and precise that he would not touch or adjust anything if he did not know exactly what he was doing. He was a machinist and used to working with precision, He was an avid DXer and a literal antenna expert. But not so much a repair tech.


TEK 11801A Parts

Milan Vasic
 

Hi guys,
Happy New Year!
I’m new to this group and would ask if somebody need following modules/hybrids token from (in this time) working 11801A:

TEK 119-4036-00 - input 0/20dB attenuator and AC/DC coupling selector;
TEK 165-2379-01 - TEK Custom Part
TEK 165-1243-00 - TEK custom Hybrid, 54 pin gold plated

For more info or photos please send PM to vasa1958 at gmail dot com.
Thank you for bandwidth,

Milan


Re: Tek Scope Cart cross reference guide?

Dave Seiter
 

My first cart was a K212, which was made (I think) for the 2xxx series scopes, but you can also use them for 7K scopes if you are careful strapping them down.  Workable, but kind of unsteady.
-Dave

From: "edbreya@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek Scope Cart cross reference guide?

  The carts made specifically for 7K mainframes have a double-D (flatted) cam rod from side to side, that fits into special slots in the base of the scope. When the rod is rotated to the locked position by an attached lever, it keeps the scope from sliding or lifting off the mounting tray.

Many 500 series or other carts can easily be modified to securely hold a 7K with a piece of threaded rod - I can't recall if 3/8"D or 5/16 is the right size, but it's easy to tell. You just need to drill holes in the sides of the mounting tray in the right spots. You then set the scope on it and pass the rod through the tray holes and scope slots from one side, then put nuts on the ends to keep it in place. The rod has to be the right OD and long enough to span the tray, plus a nut on each end.

It doesn't need to be threaded, but that's common stock and easy to use. You don't even need to hold it in place that well, but it's more secure that way. Any kind of retention method should work fine.

It's not as convenient or fancy as the real thing, but will hold just as well.

I have also used tie-down straps and bungee cords to hold equipment to carts.

Ed



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Tek Scope Cart cross reference guide?

Ed Breya
 

The carts made specifically for 7K mainframes have a double-D (flatted) cam rod from side to side, that fits into special slots in the base of the scope. When the rod is rotated to the locked position by an attached lever, it keeps the scope from sliding or lifting off the mounting tray.

Many 500 series or other carts can easily be modified to securely hold a 7K with a piece of threaded rod - I can't recall if 3/8"D or 5/16 is the right size, but it's easy to tell. You just need to drill holes in the sides of the mounting tray in the right spots. You then set the scope on it and pass the rod through the tray holes and scope slots from one side, then put nuts on the ends to keep it in place. The rod has to be the right OD and long enough to span the tray, plus a nut on each end.

It doesn't need to be threaded, but that's common stock and easy to use. You don't even need to hold it in place that well, but it's more secure that way. Any kind of retention method should work fine.

It's not as convenient or fancy as the real thing, but will hold just as well.

I have also used tie-down straps and bungee cords to hold equipment to carts.

Ed


FS: 53/54B preamp module

Frank D
 

I figured it would be OK to repost this after a month...

Am wondering if anyone is interested in a 53/54B preamp module for the Model 533 'scope. It is in the original box. See photos in album "Franco".

My Dad left me with a bunch of vintage TV test equipment. I sold the 'scope along with 3 other preamps, but didn't see this one tucked away. The purchaser of the 533 doesn't need it, as I gave him a 53/54K with the scope. Sold as-is. Make an offer.

If you're interested in other vintage test equipment. Please inquire off-list.

Many thanks!
Frank