Date   

Re: Tek 310 HV transformer

ykochcal
 

Chuck
Thanks
Your help has really make things clear, a stepper with a lead screw to move
the stylus back and forth would give the right action by just programming
the ratio of steps correctly.

Now to look for something that would work.

John


Re: TM506 v. TM515 the rest of the story....

John Griessen
 

On 09/08/2014 08:07 PM, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7pF [TekScopes] wrote:
Nothing beats an analog supply when I am working around circuits
with very small voltages.

Right. Who needs power efficiency in test equip while designing
machines for mass production? The results will pay for the power excess.
If noise is a negative in your design, only take quiet test equip into your
screened cage room.


Re: TM506 v. TM515 the rest of the story....

 

I find it puzzling that you would conclude that the TM5006 is more reliable,
quieter, and easier to diagnose. It may be cooler but that is about all.

The fans in both a TM5006 and a TM506 are both noisy. That common complaint
comes from people using them on their bench. To be fair this may be because
these instruments were designed to go into racks where there were lots of
other things making noise.

The switching mode power supply of a TM5006 is far more complex and requires
a lot more than a Multimeter to troubleshoot compared to the analog supply
in a TM506.

I would trust the reliability of a good old hunk of iron transformer any day
over the workings of a switching mode power supply.

You conveniently forgot to mention the greater electrical switching noise of
the TM5006. Nothing beats an analog supply when I am working around circuits
with very small voltages.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 4:59 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: TM506 v. TM515 the rest of the story....

I agree that the TM5006 is the best way to go. The 506 is gen1 unreliable,
clunky, loud, hot, and a real pain to diagnose.

------------------------------------
Posted by: tropicalspeed1@...
------------------------------------


Knobs Wanted

Cliff White
 

I need some knobs for my new 1S1, particularly the Time Position, Time
Position Fine, and DC Offset. Very similar knobs are used on the 1A2 for
Mode and Trigger Source, I'd need one mode and two trigger source knobs
in that case. Does anyone have a junk parts unit that I can have these
off of?



--
Respectfully,
Cliff White, W5CNW
w5cnw@... <mailto:w5cnw@...>


Re: Tek 2213: No trigger

 

Did you try Line trigger ?
That should produce a sweep; but your input signal will drift if it's not line-related.

Select a slow sweep speed & put your multimeter (DC) on the sweep out jack.
You should see a steady climb in the reading.

Can you move the horizontal position ?


HankC, Boston
WA1HOS


Re: [OT] Windows XP?

John Griessen
 

On 09/08/2014 05:21 PM, machine guy @Mac [TekScopes] wrote:
If you use Windows Explorer to examine one of these disks you will find a folder titled $OEM$. This folder is provided by
Microsoft for the OEM to place his branding information. I have read this folder can be removed but never did it for fear of
messing up the installation. It was just too easy to delete the branding after installation. Again, there is no bloatware
installed by any OEM
Windows XP disk I have seen. I think it was a contracting license thing.
So, I s XP still useful now that they've stopped support of it? Is it only useful behind a
well set up linux firewall?

JG


Re: [OT] Windows XP?

Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...>
 

They started including automatic installs of "limited edition" software, meaning the functionality was limited (that forever changed my opinion of when I saw a car marked "limited" edition). Some was utterly useless if you didn't buy the full version. I suspect the software suppliers paid to have this done, another way for Dell and others to say how much they included while getting paid to load up your PC with uselessware.

On 9/8/2014 8:10 PM, Mike Merigliano mmerig@... [TekScopes] wrote:

In retrospect, I probably overstated the amount of add-ons that could go
along with a Dell OEM installation.

Although I would not call it bloatware, as I recall there were some
diagnostic tools and built-in support functions included, plus a few
other odds and ends that I don't remember much about. I removed them (it
is on an IBM Thinkpad that originally ran Win2K) without much trouble.

On 9/8/2014 4:21 PM, machine guy @Mac [TekScopes] wrote:

The OEM disks you buy (eg. from Tiger Direct) are the same basic
installation as the ones distributed by major companies like Dell. In
recent years, major companies stopped delivering these disks but in
the early years of Windows XP Dell still provided them to customers
who asked. I know one of those customers and have disks he obtained.
They ALL leave Microsoft with options for embedding custom logos. Dell
exercised those options. But the installations proceed exactly the
same. But when you first boot the computer the desktop will include
logos from Dell. If you use Windows Explorer to examine one of these
disks you will find a folder titled $OEM$. This folder is provided by
Microsoft for the OEM to place his branding information. I have read
this folder can be removed but never did it for fear of messing up the
installation. It was just too easy to delete the branding after
installation. Again, there is no bloatware installed by any OEM
Windows XP disk I have seen. I think it was a contracting license thing.

I have the driver disks that were also delivered by Dell. Those disks
were developed by Dell and contain loads of bloatware. Its my strong
opinion that Dell (and others) were prohibited by Microsoft from
adding third party software to an OEM install disk. I suspect that
somewhere in the license agreement from Tiger Direct is a statement
about modifying the CD contents before distribution.


________________________________
From: "'Richard R. Pope' mechanic_2@... [TekScopes]"
<TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] [OT] Windows XP?


Hello all,
There is some confusion here. There are two different types of OEM
disk, There are the ones that are supplied with custom built computers
and then there are the one that you purchase without buying a computer.
Mine is the latter. Also a lot of builders don't even supply an OS disk.
They supply a recovery disk and the OS is on a hidden partition on the
drive. My disk is like the ones that you can buy from TigerDirect or
Newegg with out buying a computer.
Thanks,
rich!

On 9/8/2014 4:00 PM, machine guy @Mac [TekScopes] wrote:

My experience is that ALL OEM disks have branding data embedded. Its
part of the OEM agreement with Microsoft. The OEM gets to put their
stuff on the disk in return for being the one to support the
installation. That is why OEM disks are different than Microsoft
installs and even take different install codes. But the branding stuff
is relatively easy to remove and seldom includes bloatware. Usually
the bloatware comes from the driver disks that the OEM also provides.
You can usually avoid the bloatware by going to the OEM web site and
downloading only those drivers you need.


________________________________
From: "Mike Merigliano mmerig@... [TekScopes]"
<TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] [OT] Windows XP?


Hello, I have an OEM CD that I could convert to an ISO for you, but I
think you would be stuck with lots of Dell add-ons when it installs.

But if I were you, I would buy a new disk from that big auction site; I
noticed some for about $10.

On 9/7/2014 7:10 PM, 'Richard R. Pope' mechanic_2@...
[TekScopes] wrote:
Mike,
I spent over two hours and I didn't find anything that I would
trust. The last thing that I want is to introduce a virus to my
network
and my other systems.
Thanks,
rich!






Re: [OT] Windows XP?

Mike Merigliano
 

In retrospect, I probably overstated the amount of add-ons that could go
along with a Dell OEM installation.

Although I would not call it bloatware, as I recall there were some
diagnostic tools and built-in support functions included, plus a few
other odds and ends that I don't remember much about. I removed them (it
is on an IBM Thinkpad that originally ran Win2K) without much trouble.

On 9/8/2014 4:21 PM, machine guy @Mac [TekScopes] wrote:

The OEM disks you buy (eg. from Tiger Direct) are the same basic
installation as the ones distributed by major companies like Dell. In
recent years, major companies stopped delivering these disks but in
the early years of Windows XP Dell still provided them to customers
who asked. I know one of those customers and have disks he obtained.
They ALL leave Microsoft with options for embedding custom logos. Dell
exercised those options. But the installations proceed exactly the
same. But when you first boot the computer the desktop will include
logos from Dell. If you use Windows Explorer to examine one of these
disks you will find a folder titled $OEM$. This folder is provided by
Microsoft for the OEM to place his branding information. I have read
this folder can be removed but never did it for fear of messing up the
installation. It was just too easy to delete the branding after
installation. Again, there is no bloatware installed by any OEM
Windows XP disk I have seen. I think it was a contracting license thing.

I have the driver disks that were also delivered by Dell. Those disks
were developed by Dell and contain loads of bloatware. Its my strong
opinion that Dell (and others) were prohibited by Microsoft from
adding third party software to an OEM install disk. I suspect that
somewhere in the license agreement from Tiger Direct is a statement
about modifying the CD contents before distribution.


________________________________
From: "'Richard R. Pope' mechanic_2@... [TekScopes]"
<TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] [OT] Windows XP?


Hello all,
There is some confusion here. There are two different types of OEM
disk, There are the ones that are supplied with custom built computers
and then there are the one that you purchase without buying a computer.
Mine is the latter. Also a lot of builders don't even supply an OS disk.
They supply a recovery disk and the OS is on a hidden partition on the
drive. My disk is like the ones that you can buy from TigerDirect or
Newegg with out buying a computer.
Thanks,
rich!

On 9/8/2014 4:00 PM, machine guy @Mac [TekScopes] wrote:

My experience is that ALL OEM disks have branding data embedded. Its
part of the OEM agreement with Microsoft. The OEM gets to put their
stuff on the disk in return for being the one to support the
installation. That is why OEM disks are different than Microsoft
installs and even take different install codes. But the branding stuff
is relatively easy to remove and seldom includes bloatware. Usually
the bloatware comes from the driver disks that the OEM also provides.
You can usually avoid the bloatware by going to the OEM web site and
downloading only those drivers you need.


________________________________
From: "Mike Merigliano mmerig@... [TekScopes]"
<TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] [OT] Windows XP?


Hello, I have an OEM CD that I could convert to an ISO for you, but I
think you would be stuck with lots of Dell add-ons when it installs.

But if I were you, I would buy a new disk from that big auction site; I
noticed some for about $10.

On 9/7/2014 7:10 PM, 'Richard R. Pope' mechanic_2@...
[TekScopes] wrote:
Mike,
I spent over two hours and I didn't find anything that I would
trust. The last thing that I want is to introduce a virus to my
network
and my other systems.
Thanks,
rich!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: TM506 v. TM515 the rest of the story....

Raymond Johnson
 

I agree that the TM5006 is the best way to go. The 506 is gen1 unreliable, clunky, loud, hot, and a real pain to diagnose.

How come I couldn't find any real maple syrup when I was on the oil sands of E. Alberta? The only place around here to get that real stuff is at the local H.E.B. - a Texas owned supermarket.


Re: Tek 310 HV transformer

Chuck Harris
 

Hi John,

Now we are delving into an area where I had to do a whole
lot of experimenting, and research...

'John Snyder' Kochcal@... [TekScopes] wrote:

I see some winders use a cam that provides the back and forth. It is not
clear to me what the shape of the cam is and the resulting pattern.

What is the cam shape would be one way to answer the question.
If you make the cam a circle, and mount the shaft off center, you will
develop a back and forth pattern that is a sine wave.

That will work, but the winding stylus will spend a longer than optimal
amount of time at the edge of the coil, and will be trying to stack
wire on top of wire, and the winding will not be level, but rather
will peak up at the edges.

More desirable is for the wire to spend as little time as possible at
either edge... and simply make a sharp change in direction there. So,
a better shape for the cam is one that makes the stylus traverse a
triangle wave form on the coil face.

The ratio of the coil turn and the wire back and forth can not be exactly
1:1. one of the winders on youtube looks like it is turning less then 360
and one looks like more then 360 for each back and forth.
I already told you this one. The wire has to travel from one edge of
the coil to the other in one turn of the coil, minus the thickness of
the wire, for optimal space utilization.


I assume that is the 6 degrees you talk about so does that make it 366
degrees of coil turn to 1 back and forth or 357 degrees of coil turn to 1
back and forth?
No.

If you look at one turn of the wire around the form, it will be at the
left side at the beginning, at the middle at 180 degrees, and at the
right side at about 360 degrees.

If you draw an imaginary line along the circumference of the coil half
way between the left and right sides of the coil, the winding will appear
to be about 6 degrees relative to that line.... for a 5/16 inch cam, of
course.

When trying to figure out how many turns it takes to cover the form once,
you have to figure out how many turns of wire can sit side by side at a
6 degree angle relative to the circumference.

Is the cam Round resulting in a sine wave pattern for the wire if you took
the coil cut it and flattened it?
No, see above.

So if one was to program a linear position for the wire, if the coil had a
width of 5/16 = .3125 and the wire starts on the left at 0.0" and the far
right of the coil is at .3125
Yes, minus one wire width (at whatever angle the wire travels relative to
the circumference... 6 degrees for a 5/16 inch wide coil.)

The wire, relative to the "total degrees of motor turn" would be at

.3125" * [ cos( remainder("total degrees of motor turn"/360) * 366/360) -180
deg))/2 + 1/2]

366/360 or 354/360 being the small offset for each turn


Or is the cam have some other shape and lays down something more like a
triangle wave rather then a sine wave?
Yes, see above.

-Chuck Harris


Re: 370A floppy drive?

Craig
 

Dennis,.

I absolutely agree with you when discussing floppy disk interoperability between multiple types of systems, these are valid points you mention.

I apologize if I confused anyone. My comments were specific to the Tek 370 which in my experience will ONLY read and write low density disks formatted on the 370A. And if no low density disk is handy you can tape over the hole on a high density and it will format as low density at the larger track size (3.5 inch floppys are soft sector).

This was only mentioned as a practical solution for an immediate problem. I have used it hundreds of times and it works.

That being said, I would never use a floppy for long term storage, it is not a robust system. But it is the available method provided by Tek to transfer curve trace data from the 370A onto aother computer so it can be archived and included in reports. The floppy in the 370A was a great improvement that made this possible. It was fantastic when we could stop taking pictures of the CRT screen.

I close with a practical hint directly related to this discussion. I can not recomend in strong enough terms to never erase your important curves in the 370 memory until you have them safely transferred to your work computer. This will save you tons of griefe.

Craig




--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 9/8/14, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7pF [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: 370A floppy drive?
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Monday, September 8, 2014, 5:49 PM


 









The magnetic material on the surface of a 1.44MB
floppy requires a stronger field to change domain
orientation so the write head of a 1.44MB drive generates a
stronger magnetic field. In addition the track has to be
narrower. That narrower track is harder for a 720K floppy to
read RELIABILITY.



If you format enough diskettes you will eventually encounter
issues if you mix LD and HD floppies with HD and LD drives.




The ultimate question you have to ask is do you trust
valuable data to a floppy you may not be able to read in the
future? If the data only needs to be accessible for a short
time it won't matter.



Dennis Tillman W7PF












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Re: 2465 wont boot

 

Have you checked all the power supply test points on J119 per the service manual?

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: K7iou1 k7iou1@... [TekScopes]
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 2465 wont boot



Don't know what you mean "stuck on"????
Start basic checks, power source voltage, fuses and power supply voltages.
Good luck

On Sep 8, 2014, at 12:40 PM, "maxxim_66@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:

My 2465 starts the power and the fan is working but all the front panel led stuck on
and nothing on crt , cpu board fried?

thanks in advance for any help


Need any Tek CRT Magnetic Shields? Delay lines?

 

Digging through more "shed" stuff, I found a large pile of Tek magnetic shields, fromt the giant rectangular style that fits 604 style monitors and 5000 series scopes to the cone type that fits later 22xx style units. if you need one, let me know, larry can probably bring them back to the Tek museum on this trip. all are free to good homes.

I have several caches of these stuffed in dark corners always thinking I might need them some day,but so far, the answer has been largely no. but if the shield is missing from your unit, or damaged, I can help you!

I also have some of the 400 series delay lines, possibly a 2200 series one. I can send them down too.

plus I have a complete 7D20 front panel assy, with all controls for a few bucks.

all the best,
walter
sphere research corp.


Re: 2465 wont boot

ykochcal
 

The manual has a trouble chart that has some good tests to pinpoint the
problem.

I followed it on a 2445, there is a mode that will make the cpu cycle the
address lines, and I found on one address line was bad on the cpu. New CPU
and it was back.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:40 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] 2465 wont boot

My 2465 starts the power and the fan is working but all the front panel led
stuck on
and nothing on crt , cpu board fried?


thanks in advance for any help







------------------------------------
Posted by: maxxim_66@...
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Tek 310 HV transformer

ykochcal
 

Chuck

Thanks for that new information on coils.

I now have viewed a number of Universal coil winding youtubes and get a
better idea of what is going on. And googled many pages and do not find much
real information on the winder details. I still have a few questions


I am now motivated to look at adding a "universal wind" wire guide to my
simple winder.

What I have now is a stepper with the coil form, to turn the coil and count
the turns, and two small DC motors that hold the two reels of wire with a
bit of back torque. I used a bit of paper folded on the end of a chopstick
to guide the two wires while winding and coating the simple windings.

If I add a second motor I might be able to guide the wire back and forth in
a universal wind.

I see some winders use a cam that provides the back and forth. It is not
clear to me what the shape of the cam is and the resulting pattern.

What is the cam shape would be one way to answer the question.

The ratio of the coil turn and the wire back and forth can not be exactly
1:1. one of the winders on youtube looks like it is turning less then 360
and one looks like more then 360 for each back and forth.

I assume that is the 6 degrees you talk about so does that make it 366
degrees of coil turn to 1 back and forth or 357 degrees of coil turn to 1
back and forth?

Is the cam Round resulting in a sine wave pattern for the wire if you took
the coil cut it and flattened it?

So if one was to program a linear position for the wire, if the coil had a
width of 5/16 = .3125 and the wire starts on the left at 0.0" and the far
right of the coil is at .3125

The wire, relative to the "total degrees of motor turn" would be at

.3125" * [ cos( remainder("total degrees of motor turn"/360) * 366/360) -180
deg))/2 + 1/2]

366/360 or 354/360 being the small offset for each turn


Or is the cam have some other shape and lays down something more like a
triangle wave rather then a sine wave?

John

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 1:25 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Tek 310 HV transformer

Hi John,

'John Snyder' Kochcal@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Thanks for the winding style description I now understand better and think
it's a called a Universal wound coil.

I think Youtube has a short video under "Morris Gingery Ham Radio Coil
Winder" that looks like it's the style you are talking about one turn from
side to side. (also from two years ago under "Universal coil winding
machine")

If that is the case what is the maximum number of turns between two wires
one on top of the other that results from the wind you use?
Oh, so you are going to make me work!

Eyeballing the coil gives me a wire pitch of about 6 degrees from
circumferential. So that will make the cross section of the #38
wire appear much longer than the wire's width. So we calculate how
many of those cross sections happen in a circumference of the coil.

The secondary starts at 0.75 inches in diameter, and ends at 1.125
inches in diameter, so:

Turns = 0.75" x pi x sin(6 deg) / 0.004" = 61.54 T at the beginning,

and...

Turns = 1.125" x pi x sin(6 deg) / 0.004" = 92.31 T at the end.

Where 0.004" is the diameter of the #38 wire with insulation.

Considering that we are bifilar at the beginning of the coil through
the last 100T or so (for the 547 EHT), the number of turns would
be cut in half for most of the coil.

So, you can figure that it is somewhere between 30T and 45T before
the first crossing at the center of the coil, depending on the diameter.

-Chuck Harris


Re: [OT] Windows XP?

 

The OEM disks you buy (eg. from Tiger Direct) are the same basic installation as the ones distributed by major companies like Dell. In recent years, major companies stopped delivering these disks but in the early years of Windows XP Dell still provided them to customers who asked. I know one of those customers and have disks he obtained. They ALL leave Microsoft with options for embedding custom logos. Dell exercised those options. But the installations proceed exactly the same. But when you first boot the computer the desktop will include logos from Dell. If you use Windows Explorer to examine one of these disks you will find a folder titled $OEM$. This folder is provided by Microsoft for the OEM to place his branding information. I have read this folder can be removed but never did it for fear of messing up the installation. It was just too easy to delete the branding after installation. Again, there is no bloatware installed by any OEM
Windows XP disk I have seen. I think it was a contracting license thing.

I have the driver disks that were also delivered by Dell. Those disks were developed by Dell and contain loads of bloatware. Its my strong opinion that Dell (and others) were prohibited by Microsoft from adding third party software to an OEM install disk. I suspect that somewhere in the license agreement from Tiger Direct is a statement about modifying the CD contents before distribution.


________________________________
From: "'Richard R. Pope' mechanic_2@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] [OT] Windows XP?




Hello all,
There is some confusion here. There are two different types of OEM
disk, There are the ones that are supplied with custom built computers
and then there are the one that you purchase without buying a computer.
Mine is the latter. Also a lot of builders don't even supply an OS disk.
They supply a recovery disk and the OS is on a hidden partition on the
drive. My disk is like the ones that you can buy from TigerDirect or
Newegg with out buying a computer.
Thanks,
rich!

On 9/8/2014 4:00 PM, machine guy @Mac [TekScopes] wrote:

My experience is that ALL OEM disks have branding data embedded. Its
part of the OEM agreement with Microsoft. The OEM gets to put their
stuff on the disk in return for being the one to support the
installation. That is why OEM disks are different than Microsoft
installs and even take different install codes. But the branding stuff
is relatively easy to remove and seldom includes bloatware. Usually
the bloatware comes from the driver disks that the OEM also provides.
You can usually avoid the bloatware by going to the OEM web site and
downloading only those drivers you need.


________________________________
From: "Mike Merigliano mmerig@... [TekScopes]"
<TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] [OT] Windows XP?


Hello, I have an OEM CD that I could convert to an ISO for you, but I
think you would be stuck with lots of Dell add-ons when it installs.

But if I were you, I would buy a new disk from that big auction site; I
noticed some for about $10.

On 9/7/2014 7:10 PM, 'Richard R. Pope' mechanic_2@...
[TekScopes] wrote:
Mike,
I spent over two hours and I didn't find anything that I would
trust. The last thing that I want is to introduce a virus to my network
and my other systems.
Thanks,
rich!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 370A floppy drive?

 

I have occasionally had this problem with some drives and some diskettes
although it may be difficult to distinguish from bad drives and bad media.

The issue is not the track size written by a 1.44M drive although that can be
problematical as well. The issue is that the coercivity of the 1.44M media is
higher so the 720K drive may have problems writing to it including producing a
narrow or partially written track.

Using a 1.2M diskette in a 360K drive almost always failed in my experience.

On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:40:40 -0700, you wrote:

Dennis,

Never found this to be a problem, because after placing the tape over the hole, the disk is formatted in the 370 drive at the larger tracksize.

First step is always format in the 370. After the 720K format there are no narrow tracks.

Craig


Re: 370A floppy drive?

 

The magnetic material on the surface of a 1.44MB floppy requires a stronger field to change domain orientation so the write head of a 1.44MB drive generates a stronger magnetic field. In addition the track has to be narrower. That narrower track is harder for a 720K floppy to read RELIABILITY.

If you format enough diskettes you will eventually encounter issues if you mix LD and HD floppies with HD and LD drives.

The ultimate question you have to ask is do you trust valuable data to a floppy you may not be able to read in the future? If the data only needs to be accessible for a short time it won't matter.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 2:41 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: 370A floppy drive?

Dennis,

Never found this to be a problem, because after placing the tape over the hole, the disk is formatted in the 370 drive at the larger tracksize.

First step is always format in the 370. After the 720K format there are no narrow tracks.

Craig


, 9/8/14, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7pF [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:I

Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: 370A floppy drive?
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Monday, September 8, 2014, 5:12 PM












A few things you might want to consider before using 1.44MB high density

floppies in a low density drive:



The higher density requires more tracks. More tracks requires that each

track be thinner. When you make the track thinner you have to increase the

amount of magnetic force to change the orientation of a domain bit of the

ferrite material coating the disk. So 1.44 MB floppies use stronger fields

in their write heads, and have greater positioning precision to track the

narrower tracks.



Problem arise when you mix HD floppies and LD floppies. The heads of LD

floppy drives are not strong enough to RELIABLY write data to an HD floppy.

When a HD formatted floppy is put into a LD drive the LD drive does not have

the precision necessary to follow the narrower track to read data RELIABLY.



The end result of these differences is that you may have problems with the

reliability of the data. It might be there one day and not be readable the

next day. Or one brand of floppies might work better than another. The

question you have to ask is can you trust your data will be retrievable when

you need it?



Dennis Tillman W7PF



-----Original Message-----

From: TekScopes@...
[mailto:TekScopes@...]

Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:05 AM

To: TekScopes@...

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 370A floppy drive?



Used one of these on a daily basis for many years. It will only work with a

low density floppy.



You can use the 1.44 high density floppy but you have to put a piece of

opaque tape over the hole to make the 370 think it is low density.



As I rmember, the floppy has to be formatted in the 370 for it to be

recognized.



Craig

--------------------------------------------



------------------------------------

Posted by: P Baker <craigyard99@...>

------------------------------------



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Yahoo Groups Links













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Posted by: P Baker <craigyard99@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links


Re: in Praise of the under-appreciated TM506

 

Hi Ed,

While I can't give you any specific examples of TM500 plugins that don't
work in TM5006 mainframes I have learned the hard way to automatically
switch a plugin to a TM500 mainframe if it doesn't seem to work right in a
TM5006.

My seat-of-the-pants estimate is that this happens to me a few percent of
the time. I think in the future it would be a good idea for me to make a
note of which plugins seem to have this problem. It is probably only a few.
Of course if they are ones I use a lot then I would seem to notice it more
than is justified by your empirical testing.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 10:00 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: in Praise of the under-appreciated TM506

As I recall, all TM500 plugs should work in the 500X mainframes, especially
at lab conditions. If there are any exceptions, I think they would be listed
in the mainframe manuals.

The nominal +8 and +/-26 V were chosen to be comfortably higher than the
supposed worst case BOR (bottom of ripple) of a maximally loaded 500 series
mainframe at lowest specified line voltage and frequency. Since most plugs
used linear dropping regulators, and they were supposed to work in the
original 500 mainframes at worst case conditions, then running them just
above BOR should minimize their power dissipation, and that of the mainframe
pass transistors. Any that used switching regulators, or the HV supplies of
scopes, would likely be a little less efficient at the lower voltage, but
they should work if they did in the 500 frames, and still benefit from less
dissipation in the linear regulator portions.

Most of this had to be done empirically, with a large sampling of plug-ins
and mainframes, analysis of the specs of all the pieces and possible and
likely combinations and interactions, and delving into undefined and
unspecified characteristics, while also anticipating the expected higher
power needs of the concurrent 5000 series plug-in designs.

Ed

------------------------------------
Posted by: edbreya@...
------------------------------------


Re: 370A floppy drive?

Craig
 

Dennis,

Never found this to be a problem, because after placing the tape over the hole, the disk is formatted in the 370 drive at the larger tracksize.

First step is always format in the 370. After the 720K format there are no narrow tracks.

Craig


, 9/8/14, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7pF [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:I

Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: 370A floppy drive?
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Monday, September 8, 2014, 5:12 PM


 









A few things you might want to consider before
using 1.44MB high density

floppies in a low density drive:



The higher density requires more tracks. More tracks
requires that each

track be thinner. When you make the track thinner you have
to increase the

amount of magnetic force to change the orientation of a
domain bit of the

ferrite material coating the disk. So 1.44 MB floppies use
stronger fields

in their write heads, and have greater positioning precision
to track the

narrower tracks.



Problem arise when you mix HD floppies and LD floppies. The
heads of LD

floppy drives are not strong enough to RELIABLY write data
to an HD floppy.

When a HD formatted floppy is put into a LD drive the LD
drive does not have

the precision necessary to follow the narrower track to read
data RELIABLY.



The end result of these differences is that you may have
problems with the

reliability of the data. It might be there one day and not
be readable the

next day. Or one brand of floppies might work better than
another. The

question you have to ask is can you trust your data will be
retrievable when

you need it?



Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----

From: TekScopes@...
[mailto:TekScopes@...]

Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:05 AM

To: TekScopes@...

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 370A floppy drive?



Used one of these on a daily basis for many years. It will
only work with a

low density floppy.



You can use the 1.44 high density floppy but you have to put
a piece of

opaque tape over the hole to make the 370 think it is low
density.



As I rmember, the floppy has to be formatted in the 370 for
it to be

recognized.



Craig

--------------------------------------------



------------------------------------

Posted by: P Baker <craigyard99@...>

------------------------------------



------------------------------------



Yahoo Groups Links













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div.yiv1611171430file-title a:active, #yiv1611171430
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#yiv1611171430