Date   

Re: CRTs on Ebay

Don Black <donald_black@...>
 

Thanks Craig, interesting comments. Actually I'm in Australia but worked on some C1958 Marconi prototype colour equipment. Very useful experience. The PAL is rock solid by comparison.
Our colour service started in March 1975 using PAL. For a few years before that a few of us were watching some colour programs from tapes from the UK and England. The local signal processors stripped off all the colour burst used to lock the chroma circuits but with PAL you can recover lock signals from the chroma which wasn't filtered out. Philips hawked some prototype sets around the trade in the late sixties (trying to push colour introduction I think) and included a little chroma lock board to allow users to watch the program. It recovered the lock signal and just injected it into the chroma oscillator as a trigger but apart from just managing lock on a stable signal generator I never saw it successfully lock to an off-air program (It might have worked on a properly stabilised program?). I thought it would be better with an AFC phase locked loop and built up a few boards using it. They worked far better than I hoped and would always lock solidly to the weakest chroma. The quality off the tapes varied from excellent to colour snow but it always locked right up. So for a few years we watched just about anything that moved in colour. I've still got a board kicking around somewhere.
I believe when they were developing what became he NTSC colour system in the US it was suggested it would be advantageous to switch one colour signal phase on alternative lines (same as PAL) but it wasn't considered worth it and didn't happen. The one line delay line really makes the PAL system and I guess there wouldn't have been a cheap 64µs delay line available. It was the development of the acoustic glass delay line that really made it viable. The same delay was later used in VCRs for dropout compensation. There is still some advantage of the PAL system without a delay line, the eye averages the colour errors but gives the Venetian blind effect.

Don Black.

On 13-Jan-14 12:36 AM, Craig Sawyers wrote:
 

=====================
Have you ever worked with old NTSC gear Craig. Capable of good results but
Never Twice Same Colour oh so true, especially compared to the stability of
PAL.
Still a great development for its time which served well for over half a
Century.
Don Black.
=====================

No Don - but worked quite a bit in the States at one point, and suffered
NTSC with arbitrary colours in hotel rooms many a time.

That was the big advantage in the UK of being second instead of first in
analogue colour television, and PAL was devised to work around the phase
distortion colour artefacts of NTSC.

There used to be similar acronyms for PAL and SECAM too.

Oh yes here we are (google is your friend)

SECAM - System Essentially Contrary to the American Method
PAL - Perfect At Last

I don't know what digital TV is like in the US, but in the UK the only
complaint is that the audio level varies over very wide limits from channel
to channel. Set it correctly for on channel and you can be near deafened
when swapping to another channel. That was never the case with analogue TV,
which like FM radio had a dynamic range the led to fairly standard audio
levels, with the only exception being adverts which were (and still are)
compressed so that the perceived audio level is louder than the programme.

Craig





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Re: Programming NVRAM

J. L. Trantham
 

Thanks for the info.

 

I have a ‘vintage’ dual core AMD Averatec that has an express card slot and I found a parallel port adapter that ‘sort of’ worked.  I may have to try your solution for that computer.

 

The only problem now is that my ‘new’ Dell/Alienware only has USB connectors (does have VGA, HDMI, and standard network and audio connections) but no PCMCIA or express slot.

 

I did manage to solve a parallel to USB connection issue with the BP-1600 by purchasing the ‘adapter’ from BP Micro that they use in the BP-1610.

 

Worked just fine although I have not tried it with their latest (i.e. does not support the BP-1600) software.

 

Joe

 

 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:13 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM

 

 

http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Parallel/1-Port-PCI-Express-Base-Parallel-ExpressCard~EC1PECPS

is a cardbus,  non-USB based parallel port.

It is supported by:
Windows® 8 (32/64bit), 7 (32/64), Vista(32/64), XP(32/64), 2000, ME, 98SE, 95
Windows® Server 2008 R2
Linux

 

 

On Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:05 PM, J. L. Trantham <jltran@...> wrote:

 

My ‘programming’ solution is a Dell Optiplex 620 with WinXP Pro with the original parallel port and two low profile PCI parallel port cards installed for a total of 3 parallel ports with a BP-1600, a BP-1200, and an Advin MVP plugged in.

 

Still, I think it is smaller space than what was shown.

 

Joe

 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 9:24 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM

 

 

My current solution is 14 years newer making it 16 years old but lives in a
tower case so it takes up less bench space.

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 18:48:34 -0600, you wrote:

>I’m not sure my workbench is big enough.
>
>Joe
>
>From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of snapdiode@...
>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 4:04 PM
>To: TekScopes@...
>Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM
>
>Well, there's a solution that avoids any recent Microsoft software ...
>
>http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content/gallery/eprom-motorola-mcm68766c-for-jiffydos/IMG_8404.jpg

 


Re: CRTs on Ebay

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

=====================
Have you ever worked with old NTSC gear Craig. Capable of good results but
Never Twice Same Colour oh so true, especially compared to the stability of
PAL.
Still a great development for its time which served well for over half a
Century.
Don Black.
=====================

No Don - but worked quite a bit in the States at one point, and suffered
NTSC with arbitrary colours in hotel rooms many a time.

That was the big advantage in the UK of being second instead of first in
analogue colour television, and PAL was devised to work around the phase
distortion colour artefacts of NTSC.

There used to be similar acronyms for PAL and SECAM too.

Oh yes here we are (google is your friend)

SECAM - System Essentially Contrary to the American Method
PAL - Perfect At Last

I don't know what digital TV is like in the US, but in the UK the only
complaint is that the audio level varies over very wide limits from channel
to channel. Set it correctly for on channel and you can be near deafened
when swapping to another channel. That was never the case with analogue TV,
which like FM radio had a dynamic range the led to fairly standard audio
levels, with the only exception being adverts which were (and still are)
compressed so that the perceived audio level is louder than the programme.

Craig


Re: CRTs on Ebay

Don Black <donald_black@...>
 

Have you ever worked with old NTSC gear Craig. Capable of good results but Never Twice Same Colour oh so true, especially compared to the stability of PAL.
Still a great development for its time which served well for over half a Century.
Don Black.

On 12-Jan-14 11:48 PM, Craig Sawyers wrote:
 

> NTSC

Never Twice the Same Colour

Craig





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Re: CRTs on Ebay

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

NTSC
Never Twice the Same Colour

Craig


Re: 2465 help to fix

max t
 

Did some steps , tracing back around U650 sequencer i have found
sick Q155 e-c low resistence changed it and while the A1 board disassembled have recap whole electrolitics , now scope
is working start without errors but traces very blard
and cannot adjust well also scale illum. not working
this the new video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnInYagdtQk&feature=youtu.be

--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, machine guy <machineguy59@...> wrote:

I can attest to the need for a bench fan when running this scope without a case.  I use a small clip on fan that can be pointed directly at the instrument.

My first thought for this problem was tht one of the Horiz leads was loose from the scope.  They are accessible from the bottom when the case is removed.  But then I saw the trace can be moved to the left side of the screen.  This seems to say the horiz is working.

I still lean to the idea that something is bleeding the power when knobs are turned but I cant think how since it didn't show when the OP measured voltages as he turned pots.

Im stumped.  Not quitting, just stumped.


________________________________
From: Don Black <donald_black@...>
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix



 
Have you tried tapping the instrument (gently) to see if it's sensitive to vibration. I think it would have to be very touchy to get these results from the mere vibration of turning a knob but it just seems so general that it's possible. While it could be the CRT it doesn't look like it to me so don't slash your wrists just yet. I've never worked on one of these but is it possible to measure the deflection voltage going to the tube. You should be able to see it jumping all over the place in sympathy with the trace movement.
At least you've won weird fault of the month award.

Don Black.
PS can someone advise if this model overheats if operated with the
covers off and needs a desk fan blowing into it while working on
it?

On 12-Jan-14 6:47 PM, machine guy wrote:

 

I have never seen anything like that.  You are able to put the trace nearly anywhere on the screen but it is usually right of center.  The trace that shows in the video looks like the cursor from the readout board.


The fact that you can position the trace right or left, mostly right, seems to say the U800 is working (but not necessarily right).  I am bewildered but will think about it and post back.


Perhaps someone with more experience on these will be better help to you.


Mac

From: max t mailto:maxxim_66@...
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:24 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix



 
Values on those pins is fine , about R352 levels from -4.97v to +4.97v
and R351 from 0v to +4.98v , looking the
schematic seems to be ok ,
i have upload a new video with more
details of scope rotating pots

this the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHsLDqqg4k&feature=youtu.be

regarding corrosions ..the scope is very
clean there no traces
of that i have changed all electrolitics
but they was almost
fine maybe the c1022 with broken
terminal it was defective
or while assembled too much forced or
manipulated then with age
disconnected.

--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, machine guy mailto:machineguy59@ wrote:

I have not seen this problem before
but we can trace the schematic.  My
next measurements would be to see if the
voltage at pin2 of R352 changes as you
turn the intensity and pin 2 of R351
changes as you turn Readout intensity.

But it is concerning that changing
settings on the panel (vert pos, etc)
changes the horizontal left and right. 
That may indicate a bad CRT tube.  I am
sure there are other measurements to
verify that and perhaps others on the
forum will have ideas here. 

For now, I would trace the
schematic and check voltages beginning
at the intensity knobs. 


________________________________
From: max t mailto:maxxim_66@
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014
12:19 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help
to fix






________________________________

This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.


Re: 2465 help to fix

 

I can attest to the need for a bench fan when running this scope without a case.  I use a small clip on fan that can be pointed directly at the instrument.

My first thought for this problem was tht one of the Horiz leads was loose from the scope.  They are accessible from the bottom when the case is removed.  But then I saw the trace can be moved to the left side of the screen.  This seems to say the horiz is working.

I still lean to the idea that something is bleeding the power when knobs are turned but I cant think how since it didn't show when the OP measured voltages as he turned pots.

Im stumped.  Not quitting, just stumped.

From: Don Black
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix

 
Have you tried tapping the instrument (gently) to see if it's sensitive to vibration. I think it would have to be very touchy to get these results from the mere vibration of turning a knob but it just seems so general that it's possible. While it could be the CRT it doesn't look like it to me so don't slash your wrists just yet. I've never worked on one of these but is it possible to measure the deflection voltage going to the tube. You should be able to see it jumping all over the place in sympathy with the trace movement.
At least you've won weird fault of the month award.

Don Black.
PS can someone advise if this model overheats if operated with the covers off and needs a desk fan blowing into it while working on it?

On 12-Jan-14 6:47 PM, machine guy wrote:
 
I have never seen anything like that.  You are able to put the trace nearly anywhere on the screen but it is usually right of center.  The trace that shows in the video looks like the cursor from the readout board.

The fact that you can position the trace right or left, mostly right, seems to say the U800 is working (but not necessarily right).  I am bewildered but will think about it and post back.

Perhaps someone with more experience on these will be better help to you.

Mac
From: max t mailto:maxxim_66@...
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:24 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix

 
Values on those pins is fine , about R352 levels from -4.97v to +4.97v
and R351 from 0v to +4.98v , looking the schematic seems to be ok ,
i have upload a new video with more details of scope rotating pots

this the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHsLDqqg4k&feature=youtu.be

regarding corrosions ..the scope is very clean there no traces
of that i have changed all electrolitics but they was almost
fine maybe the c1022 with broken terminal it was defective
or while assembled too much forced or manipulated then with age
disconnected.

--- In TekScopes@..., machine guy mailto:machineguy59@... wrote:
>
> I have not seen this problem before but we can trace the schematic.  My next measurements would be to see if the voltage at pin2 of R352 changes as you turn the intensity and pin 2 of R351 changes as you turn Readout intensity.
>
> But it is concerning that changing settings on the panel (vert pos, etc) changes the horizontal left and right.  That may indicate a bad CRT tube.  I am sure there are other measurements to verify that and perhaps others on the forum will have ideas here. 
>
> For now, I would trace the schematic and check voltages beginning at the intensity knobs. 
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: max t mailto:maxxim_66@...
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 12:19 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix






This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.




Re: 2465 help to fix

Don Black <donald_black@...>
 

Have you tried tapping the instrument (gently) to see if it's sensitive to vibration. I think it would have to be very touchy to get these results from the mere vibration of turning a knob but it just seems so general that it's possible. While it could be the CRT it doesn't look like it to me so don't slash your wrists just yet. I've never worked on one of these but is it possible to measure the deflection voltage going to the tube. You should be able to see it jumping all over the place in sympathy with the trace movement.
At least you've won weird fault of the month award.

Don Black.
PS can someone advise if this model overheats if operated with the covers off and needs a desk fan blowing into it while working on it?

On 12-Jan-14 6:47 PM, machine guy wrote:
 
I have never seen anything like that.  You are able to put the trace nearly anywhere on the screen but it is usually right of center.  The trace that shows in the video looks like the cursor from the readout board.

The fact that you can position the trace right or left, mostly right, seems to say the U800 is working (but not necessarily right).  I am bewildered but will think about it and post back.

Perhaps someone with more experience on these will be better help to you.

Mac
From: max t
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:24 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix

 
Values on those pins is fine , about R352 levels from -4.97v to +4.97v
and R351 from 0v to +4.98v , looking the schematic seems to be ok ,
i have upload a new video with more details of scope rotating pots

this the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHsLDqqg4k&feature=youtu.be

regarding corrosions ..the scope is very clean there no traces
of that i have changed all electrolitics but they was almost
fine maybe the c1022 with broken terminal it was defective
or while assembled too much forced or manipulated then with age
disconnected.

--- In TekScopes@..., machine guy wrote:
>
> I have not seen this problem before but we can trace the schematic.  My next measurements would be to see if the voltage at pin2 of R352 changes as you turn the intensity and pin 2 of R351 changes as you turn Readout intensity.
>
> But it is concerning that changing settings on the panel (vert pos, etc) changes the horizontal left and right.  That may indicate a bad CRT tube.  I am sure there are other measurements to verify that and perhaps others on the forum will have ideas here. 
>
> For now, I would trace the schematic and check voltages beginning at the intensity knobs. 
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: max t
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 12:19 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix







This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.



Re: 2465 help to fix

 

I have never seen anything like that.  You are able to put the trace nearly anywhere on the screen but it is usually right of center.  The trace that shows in the video looks like the cursor from the readout board.

The fact that you can position the trace right or left, mostly right, seems to say the U800 is working (but not necessarily right).  I am bewildered but will think about it and post back.

Perhaps someone with more experience on these will be better help to you.

Mac

From: max t <maxxim_66@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:24 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix

 
Values on those pins is fine , about R352 levels from -4.97v to +4.97v
and R351 from 0v to +4.98v , looking the schematic seems to be ok ,
i have upload a new video with more details of scope rotating pots

this the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHsLDqqg4k&feature=youtu.be

regarding corrosions ..the scope is very clean there no traces
of that i have changed all electrolitics but they was almost
fine maybe the c1022 with broken terminal it was defective
or while assembled too much forced or manipulated then with age
disconnected.

--- In TekScopes@..., machine guy wrote:
>
> I have not seen this problem before but we can trace the schematic.  My next measurements would be to see if the voltage at pin2 of R352 changes as you turn the intensity and pin 2 of R351 changes as you turn Readout intensity.
>
> But it is concerning that changing settings on the panel (vert pos, etc) changes the horizontal left and right.  That may indicate a bad CRT tube.  I am sure there are other measurements to verify that and perhaps others on the forum will have ideas here. 
>
> For now, I would trace the schematic and check voltages beginning at the intensity knobs. 
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: max t
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 12:19 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix




Re: 2465 help to fix

max t
 

Values on those pins is fine , about R352 levels from -4.97v to +4.97v
and R351 from 0v to +4.98v , looking the schematic seems to be ok ,
i have upload a new video with more details of scope rotating pots

this the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHsLDqqg4k&feature=youtu.be

regarding corrosions ..the scope is very clean there no traces
of that i have changed all electrolitics but they was almost
fine maybe the c1022 with broken terminal it was defective
or while assembled too much forced or manipulated then with age
disconnected.

--- In TekScopes@yahoogroups.com, machine guy <machineguy59@...> wrote:

I have not seen this problem before but we can trace the schematic.  My next measurements would be to see if the voltage at pin2 of R352 changes as you turn the intensity and pin 2 of R351 changes as you turn Readout intensity.

But it is concerning that changing settings on the panel (vert pos, etc) changes the horizontal left and right.  That may indicate a bad CRT tube.  I am sure there are other measurements to verify that and perhaps others on the forum will have ideas here. 

For now, I would trace the schematic and check voltages beginning at the intensity knobs. 


________________________________
From: max t <maxxim_66@...>
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 12:19 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: 2465 help to fix


Re: CRTs on Ebay

Michael A. Terrell
 


Re: Programming NVRAM

KeepIt SimpleStupid
 

http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Parallel/1-Port-PCI-Express-Base-Parallel-ExpressCard~EC1PECPS

is a cardbus,  non-USB based parallel port.

It is supported by:
Windows® 8 (32/64bit), 7 (32/64), Vista(32/64), XP(32/64), 2000, ME, 98SE, 95
Windows® Server 2008 R2
Linux



On Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:05 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
 
My ‘programming’ solution is a Dell Optiplex 620 with WinXP Pro with the original parallel port and two low profile PCI parallel port cards installed for a total of 3 parallel ports with a BP-1600, a BP-1200, and an Advin MVP plugged in.
 
Still, I think it is smaller space than what was shown.
 
Joe
 
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 9:24 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM
 
 
My current solution is 14 years newer making it 16 years old but lives in a
tower case so it takes up less bench space.

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 18:48:34 -0600, you wrote:

>I’m not sure my workbench is big enough.
>
>Joe
>
>From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of snapdiode@...
>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 4:04 PM
>To: TekScopes@...
>Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM
>
>Well, there's a solution that avoids any recent Microsoft software ...
>
>http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content/gallery/eprom-motorola-mcm68766c-for-jiffydos/IMG_8404.jpg



CRTs on Ebay

Cliff White
 


Re: Programming NVRAM

J. L. Trantham
 

My ‘programming’ solution is a Dell Optiplex 620 with WinXP Pro with the original parallel port and two low profile PCI parallel port cards installed for a total of 3 parallel ports with a BP-1600, a BP-1200, and an Advin MVP plugged in.

 

Still, I think it is smaller space than what was shown.

 

Joe

 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 9:24 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM

 

 

My current solution is 14 years newer making it 16 years old but lives in a
tower case so it takes up less bench space.

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 18:48:34 -0600, you wrote:

>I’m not sure my workbench is big enough.
>
>Joe
>
>From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of snapdiode@...
>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 4:04 PM
>To: TekScopes@...
>Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM
>
>Well, there's a solution that avoids any recent Microsoft software ...
>
>http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content/gallery/eprom-motorola-mcm68766c-for-jiffydos/IMG_8404.jpg


Re: Programming NVRAM

 

My current solution is 14 years newer making it 16 years old but lives in a
tower case so it takes up less bench space.

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 18:48:34 -0600, you wrote:

I’m not sure my workbench is big enough.

Joe

From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of snapdiode@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 4:04 PM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM

Well, there's a solution that avoids any recent Microsoft software ...

http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content/gallery/eprom-motorola-mcm68766c-for-jiffydos/IMG_8404.jpg


Re: 7Bxx MOD515C [2 Attachments]

Don Black <donald_black@...>
 

Are these the same Canon coax D connectors that Tektronix use on the 7S12 plugins?

Don Black.

On 12-Jan-14 2:49 AM, Rens Tel wrote:
7B71 mod 515c 1.JPG




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Re: Programming NVRAM

Michael A. Terrell
 

Paul Amaranth wrote:

They don't come with a parallel port, but you can add one. I just put
in a PCI-E parallel card on a Win7 computer for a client who runs
an ancient laser printer. Worked fine.
That printer has a buffer, and doesn't depend on the port's timing. It's like trying to use USB for a CNC machine. It generates a lot of scrap.


Re: Programming NVRAM

J. L. Trantham
 

I’m not sure my workbench is big enough.

 

Joe

 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of snapdiode@...
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 4:04 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Programming NVRAM

 

 

Well, there's a solution that avoids any recent Microsoft software ...

 

http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content/gallery/eprom-motorola-mcm68766c-for-jiffydos/IMG_8404.jpg

 

 


Re: Tek 7854 Doesn't Come On After EPROM ROM Replacement

snapdiode
 

Replacement for what, exactly?


Re: Tek 7854 Doesn't Come On After EPROM ROM Replacement

Phil Peri
 

I'm starting to lift traces from re-working this board so much... ! I found another ROM board with the same MOSTEK devices on eBay for $10 and snatched that up to continue working on.


At this point it feels like it would be easier to just design my own replacement! (would anyone on here be interested in that?)



P.

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