Re: Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

Jim Ford
 

Hey, you guys are pretty far OT.  Please take it to private emails.
Thanks.


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: "EricJ via Groups.Io" <wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> Date: 9/7/18 9:08 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Hi Stefan,
It sounds like you need the next higher temp tip for the Metcal. I'm surprised they didn't send you a variety with your demo unit. There are several sizes, shapes and heat levels available. I know you already know this, but you did apply some solder to the tip to help with heat transfer before attempting to desolder the demanding transformer joint, right? If the power indicator is telling you it's not using much power you can't be getting much heat transfer. I always add solder to the tip on the tough joints.
I think I would prioritize that dampening at least for the walls - sounds like you are in an echo chamber! 
: )
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> Date: 9/7/18  10:14 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I tried some desoldering (did unpack the power station after all ;-) )
and frankly I could see no improvement on the tricky transformer power
plane connections that were giving me trouble. If anything the chinese
one did remove the solder slightly better. Of course the Metcal feels
much more solid, no doubt about that.

The heating power of the Metcal might be there (it heats up faster,
since it has a lot less thermal mass), but I think the bottleneck is
the tip-pad connection and the fairly narrow tube that forms the tip.
The power display on the Metcal did not tick up more than one or at
most two percent when I touched it to that plane, indicating that the
heater did not even see the demand. The thermal design on the chinese
one also sucks, but at least there I can nudge up the temperature to
compensate.

As for the room, it's a large space about 24m by 18m and 2+ stories
high with arched concrete ceilings. A few posters are not going to cut
it ;-). I will put in a nice thick shagpile carpet for next year's
budget, but I fear the request will be declined in view of the ESD
floor...

ST


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 4:50 PM EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Stefan,
In terms of performance, I think the Metcal will win. The Chinese station might reach a higher blocked vacuum level but that's not what we desire when desoldering. The flow never stops when I desolder. What you want is an instant on, high volume suction so that the liquid solder is instantly pulled right out of the joint without having time to cool and solidify due to air flow cooling it off. I would bet that the heating performance of the Metcal will also outdo the Chinese station.
It's pretty clear from watching the gauge that the Metcal snaps the needle right to its maximum vacuum, while the Chinese one lazily builds vacuum but to a bit higher final level. I'll take the Metcal - just didn't buy mine new, so my price was probably closer to the Chinese one. Good luck with whatever you decide.
P.S. you might want to put some sound absorbent materials on your walls and/or floor. Like rugs or rubber mat for the floor and even posters or pictures on the wall. It looks as though that room is mostly bare and sounds like you have a LOT of reflective surfaces in there which really amplifies any noise level. No wonder it seems very loud to you.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> Date: 9/7/18  9:32 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I made a video showing the difference between the two desoldering stations:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ggDtwSi4CcJEzAP78

The Metcal does move a higher volume of air, 23 seconds to empty a
bag, compared to 30 seconds for the chinese station, but in terms of
blocked off pressure the chinese station is significantly better.

A rag and some foam rubber does cut down on the noise quite a bit, but
nowhere near the level of the chinese station.

Make up your own mind if you want to pay 10 times the money for this.
Thanks for your help.

ST


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 9:07 AM EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Well it's like the rest of us said, the noise doesn't bother us. I actually find it not bothersome at all. Additionally, I have used it a million times in the basement while the very young kids are sleeping in the room right above without waking them. It just isn't a problem to me. YMMV, and that's fine.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> Date: 9/7/18  12:27 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I already have a bunch of OK working desoldering stations.
What I was looking for is spending well more than what my car is worth
to upgrade them to something better.
My wishlist was a bit more thermal power, and a bit better quality so
the tips and heaters don't wear out as much, that's not asking much if
you are willing to spend 10 times the money.
This does _not_ mean I'm willing to accept severe trade-offs in other
areas, especially since I compare them to units that cost well under
$100 originally.

I just don't care if the Metcal works well, with that level of noise I
simply don't even need to unpack the power unit because I can never
use it.
It is obvious not only for me but everyone else I showed it to that
this level of noise is not only unacceptable but completely
unnecessary for function.

I think when I am willing to spend whatever is asked I am not paying
just for materials, I am also paying for engineering and I am paying
for the Metcal engineer to spend five minutes of his valueable time to
consider the noise level in his design and take simple steps to
mitigate it. That venturi generators need silencers is not a novel
concept, every pneumatics manufacturer that offers them (e.g. SMC) has
equipped his generators with integral silencers or appropriate
threaded exit ports and offers suitable silencers, not just a freaking
hole in a casting for the air to fart out.

While I am certain I can modify the guns to produce only a reasonable
amount of noise I just don't see why I should do that. It's fine that
I have to finish a $100 chinese Hakko knockoff myself, I expect that,
but if I pay top dollar I expect a finished product. (The Metcal gun
is now also made in China btw).

You guys are like "Yea sure you are test driving this BMW and they
forgot to put on an exhaust muffler, but who gives a damn if it rips
your eardrums out, it goes FAST, so just get over it and wear
headphones". This is _not_ _an_ _option_ for me. I'm just glad I
insisted on a demo unit instead of buying this thing outright.

ST



On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:17 AM Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@...> wrote:

When I use my DS-1 yeah it's loud but it works it sucks solder out of
places very few others will such as my old boat anchors.

If the noise is excessive to you how about getting a little low-cost cheapy
like the hakko line powered one works pretty good on small stuff.

Think of it like having two soldering irons I metcal for the little stuff
and a big old hexacon for the old stuff

Or if it's too noisy wear headphones








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