1. Topics
  2. encoder support in TeenAstro

encoder support in TeenAstro

Charles
 

Hi,

I spend a bit time to investigate what is the best solution for the encoder.

We have manly 2 options:
use the encoder of the BOB 5160 but I think it works only if we do not use the step dir interface. This a major change that I a not able to currently
use a decoder chip: 
Dual LS7366R Quadrature Encoder Buffer
https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/dual-ls7366r-quadrature-encoder-buffer/1523/

It is not cheap but will give us a good interface.
The board is small and can be integrated in the Cable plug. Hence the TeenAstro main board remain unchanged and the decoder board is part of the encoder cable. So we get from the encoder system not the signal but directly the position speed etc... It is exactly what we do with the GNSS module we get the Lat long and not the GNSS signal.

If some one have a mount with encoder and is interested to test, I will then start this development.

I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;

Charles
François Desvallées
 

Hi Charles:

Does this apply to encoders on the axes or on the motors? I understand encoders on the axes are more useful, but more expensive, especially absolute encoders?

Thanks
François

On 24/11/2020 18:13 Charles <charles_lemaire@...> wrote:


Hi,

I spend a bit time to investigate what is the best solution for the encoder.

We have manly 2 options:
use the encoder of the BOB 5160 but I think it works only if we do not use the step dir interface. This a major change that I a not able to currently
use a decoder chip: 
Dual LS7366R Quadrature Encoder Buffer
https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/dual-ls7366r-quadrature-encoder-buffer/1523/

It is not cheap but will give us a good interface.
The board is small and can be integrated in the Cable plug. Hence the TeenAstro main board remain unchanged and the decoder board is part of the encoder cable. So we get from the encoder system not the signal but directly the position speed etc... It is exactly what we do with the GNSS module we get the Lat long and not the GNSS signal.

If some one have a mount with encoder and is interested to test, I will then start this development.

I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;

Charles

Mahdi A
 

Hi Charles I have a absolut encoder kit for the push+ System I can send you one Kit, we purchase it with a high MOQ so we are able to get good prices.
Tomorrow I can send you some detailed pics.
Send me a personal mail for details. 


Charles <Charles_Lemaire@...> schrieb am Di., 24. Nov. 2020, 18:13:

Hi,

I spend a bit time to investigate what is the best solution for the encoder.

We have manly 2 options:
use the encoder of the BOB 5160 but I think it works only if we do not use the step dir interface. This a major change that I a not able to currently
use a decoder chip: 
Dual LS7366R Quadrature Encoder Buffer
https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/dual-ls7366r-quadrature-encoder-buffer/1523/

It is not cheap but will give us a good interface.
The board is small and can be integrated in the Cable plug. Hence the TeenAstro main board remain unchanged and the decoder board is part of the encoder cable. So we get from the encoder system not the signal but directly the position speed etc... It is exactly what we do with the GNSS module we get the Lat long and not the GNSS signal.

If some one have a mount with encoder and is interested to test, I will then start this development.

I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;

Charles
Charles
 

This is for the encoder on the axes, the one on the motor is a close loop stepper.
 
it is not necessary expensive:
https://www.webastro.net/upload/mediumimages/104713-1552768723.jpg
 
 
Charles
 
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. November 2020 um 19:33 Uhr
Von: "François Desvallées via groups.io" <fdesvallees@...>
An: TeenAstro@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [TeenAstro] encoder support in TeenAstro
Hi Charles:
 
Does this apply to encoders on the axes or on the motors? I understand encoders on the axes are more useful, but more expensive, especially absolute encoders?
 
Thanks
François
 

On 24/11/2020 18:13 Charles <charles_lemaire@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi,

I spend a bit time to investigate what is the best solution for the encoder.

We have manly 2 options:
use the encoder of the BOB 5160 but I think it works only if we do not use the step dir interface. This a major change that I a not able to currently
use a decoder chip: 
Dual LS7366R Quadrature Encoder Buffer
https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/dual-ls7366r-quadrature-encoder-buffer/1523/

It is not cheap but will give us a good interface.
The board is small and can be integrated in the Cable plug. Hence the TeenAstro main board remain unchanged and the decoder board is part of the encoder cable. So we get from the encoder system not the signal but directly the position speed etc... It is exactly what we do with the GNSS module we get the Lat long and not the GNSS signal.

If some one have a mount with encoder and is interested to test, I will then start this development.

I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;

Charles
 
Charles
 

Hi Mahdi,
 
Thanks for the offer, is there an arduino lib to communicate with your hardware.
Absolute encoder are harder to implement on German equatorial but easier on a fork mount.
 
Charles
 
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. November 2020 um 19:48 Uhr
Von: "Mahdi A via groups.io" <mahdi.abokhalaf@...>
An: TeenAstro@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [TeenAstro] encoder support in TeenAstro
Hi Charles I have a absolut encoder kit for the push+ System I can send you one Kit, we purchase it with a high MOQ so we are able to get good prices.
Tomorrow I can send you some detailed pics.
Send me a personal mail for details. 
 
Charles <Charles_Lemaire@...> schrieb am Di., 24. Nov. 2020, 18:13:

Hi,

I spend a bit time to investigate what is the best solution for the encoder.

We have manly 2 options:
use the encoder of the BOB 5160 but I think it works only if we do not use the step dir interface. This a major change that I a not able to currently
use a decoder chip: 
Dual LS7366R Quadrature Encoder Buffer
https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/dual-ls7366r-quadrature-encoder-buffer/1523/

It is not cheap but will give us a good interface.
The board is small and can be integrated in the Cable plug. Hence the TeenAstro main board remain unchanged and the decoder board is part of the encoder cable. So we get from the encoder system not the signal but directly the position speed etc... It is exactly what we do with the GNSS module we get the Lat long and not the GNSS signal.

If some one have a mount with encoder and is interested to test, I will then start this development.

I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;

Charles
 

 

 
Eric Harant
 

Hi Charles.
I have a couple of encoder from a JMI NGC-Max system with gears and adapter for my Losmandy G11.
I just remove them when i start to use Teenastro.

Could be a + when moving the mount by hand. 

BTW is there one star initialisation procedure (I often do it by enabling tracking then pointing a star and do a sync on it whith the SHC).
Charles
 

Pretty cool I have JMI kit for the EM200 but I have no Idea if it works. I will order the board we can double check if it works on both system... 👍


Envoyé à partir d’un Smarpthone Android avec GMX Mail.
Le 24/11/2020, 21:39 Eric Harant <eric.harant@...> a écrit:

Hi Charles.
I have a couple of encoder from a JMI NGC-Max system with gears and adapter for my Losmandy G11.
I just remove them when i start to use Teenastro.

Could be a + when moving the mount by hand. 

BTW is there one star initialisation procedure (I often do it by enabling tracking then pointing a star and do a sync on it whith the SHC).

stephane h.
 

Hi Charles,
 "I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;"

with pleasure, friend ;)
I have few more encoders (still quadrature encoders with a mecanic point "zero" and 4k pulses per rotation) at home, waiting to be mounted on my mount (as Eric said, it would be usefull while moving the mount by hand without completly loose the position), but also for dobsonian telescopes in my club, tu create a "push-to" system, and/or an easy and realiable alt-az goto.

I'm still interested in this development and follow this topic :)
That also can be interesting for @Ti Nico 's projects

Stéphane
BORIS MALZAK
  

Hello Charles
I have the TEMA 2 version encoders for the NJP.
the implantation, the mechanical integration is therefore already done.
For me it is interesting.
I can test easily

 

Cordialement

 

Boris

 

 

> Message du 24/11/20 19:54
> De : "Charles" <Charles_Lemaire@...>
> A : TeenAstro@groups.io
> Copie à :
> Objet : Re: [TeenAstro] encoder support in TeenAstro
>
>
This is for the encoder on the axes, the one on the motor is a close loop stepper.
 
it is not necessary expensive:
https://www.webastro.net/upload/mediumimages/104713-1552768723.jpg
 
 
Charles
 
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. November 2020 um 19:33 Uhr
Von: "François Desvallées via groups.io" <fdesvallees@...>
An: TeenAstro@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [TeenAstro] encoder support in TeenAstro
Hi Charles:
 
Does this apply to encoders on the axes or on the motors? I understand encoders on the axes are more useful, but more expensive, especially absolute encoders?
 
Thanks
François
 
On 24/11/2020 18:13 Charles <charles_lemaire@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi,

I spend a bit time to investigate what is the best solution for the encoder.

We have manly 2 options:
use the encoder of the BOB 5160 but I think it works only if we do not use the step dir interface. This a major change that I a not able to currently
use a decoder chip: 

https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/dual-ls7366r-quadrature-encoder-buffer/1523/

It is not cheap but will give us a good interface.
The board is small and can be integrated in the Cable plug. Hence the TeenAstro main board remain unchanged and the decoder board is part of the encoder cable. So we get from the encoder system not the signal but directly the position speed etc... It is exactly what we do with the GNSS module we get the Lat long and not the GNSS signal.

If some one have a mount with encoder and is interested to test, I will then start this development.

I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;

Charles
 

--
Boris
BORIS MALZAK
 

 

Warning
On temma takahashi mounts, the encoders are the axes of the worm screws,
the njp accepts the 2 assemblies

 

 

 

> Message du 24/11/20 18:23
> De : "Charles" <Charles_Lemaire@...>
> A : TeenAstro@groups.io
> Copie à :
> Objet : [TeenAstro] encoder support in TeenAstro
>
> Hi,

I spend a bit time to investigate what is the best solution for the encoder.

We have manly 2 options:
use the encoder of the BOB 5160 but I think it works only if we do not use the step dir interface. This a major change that I a not able to currently
use a decoder chip: 

https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/dual-ls7366r-quadrature-encoder-buffer/1523/

It is not cheap but will give us a good interface.
The board is small and can be integrated in the Cable plug. Hence the TeenAstro main board remain unchanged and the decoder board is part of the encoder cable. So we get from the encoder system not the signal but directly the position speed etc... It is exactly what we do with the GNSS module we get the Lat long and not the GNSS signal.

If some one have a mount with encoder and is interested to test, I will then start this development.

I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;

Charles


--
Boris
Charles
 

This is exactly the idea to use move the telescop by hand and keep the position... for visual observation you can then keep the pleasure to move the scop and not use goto for any object.
@Boris: I think the encoder on the njp is more or less to obseve the worm gear and a kind of close loop system. Maybe then we have to configure in TeenAstro what is the purpose of the encoder:
* Encoder on Axis (zero point is an option)
* Encoder on Wormgear (need a zero point/ absolute encoder are better)
* Encoder on Stepper Axis (no need for a zero point/ the encoder just check if we are loosing steps)
 
Charles
 
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. November 2020 um 23:57 Uhr
Von: "stephane hubert" <steff93160@...>
An: TeenAstro@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [TeenAstro] encoder support in TeenAstro
Hi Charles,
 "I would like to thanks stephane that gave me encoders ;"

with pleasure, friend ;)
I have few more encoders (still quadrature encoders with a mecanic point "zero" and 4k pulses per rotation) at home, waiting to be mounted on my mount (as Eric said, it would be usefull while moving the mount by hand without completly loose the position), but also for dobsonian telescopes in my club, tu create a "push-to" system, and/or an easy and realiable alt-az goto.

I'm still interested in this development and follow this topic :)
That also can be interesting for @Ti Nico 's projects

Stéphane

Eric Harant
 

Of course I'm interrested.

The board is not cheap and no idea about shipment cost. 
It will be clever that we process to a "grouped" order if some of us plan to use it.

Who will be interrested ?
I for sure.
Eric Harant
 

The break board is not difficult to build. If someone is able to draw the PCB. Shemas are on their site.
BORIS MALZAK
 

Bonjour,
Je relance le sujet, car je m'aperçois  que pour faire de l'astrométrie et surtout pour gagner du temps 
on a besoin des positions du centre de l'image dans l'entête de l'image.

Cette position peut être renseignée dans l'entête de l'image lors de l 'acquisition,
mais la condition nécessaire est que les encodeurs sur axes soient installés
et que les informations de positions soient renvoyées à travers ascom au logiciel d'acquisition.
 
Ce serait une évolution majeur pour Teenastro.
Lui ouvrant d'autres horizons d'utilisateurs exigeants

Charles, je ne sais pas si tu as le temps mais en tant que demandeur je peux être beta testeur,  ayant Prism et une monture pour cela.
Cordialement 
François Desvallées
 

Bonjour Boris:

On peut obtenir les coordonnées de l'image sans encodeurs: C'est le "plate solving", qui compare une image avec une database du ciel et permet de centrer le télescope pendant la prise de vue et insère ces coordonnées dans le header.
Ça existe dans Prism comme dans tous les logiciels de capture comme Ekos, SGP, NINA etc.

Les encodeurs sur axes  sont installés sur les montures très chères  (AstroPhysics Mach2, 10Micron, ASA etc.). En principe leur grand avantage est de  pouvoir faire des longues poses sans guider, en plus de ne plus avoir besoin de synchroniser et d'aligner la monture. 

Cordialement
François





On 30 Sep 2021, at 06:49, BORIS MALZAK <boris.malzak@...> wrote:

Bonjour,
Je relance le sujet, car je m'aperçois  que pour faire de l'astrométrie et surtout pour gagner du temps 
on a besoin des positions du centre de l'image dans l'entête de l'image.

Cette position peut être renseignée dans l'entête de l'image lors de l 'acquisition,
mais la condition nécessaire est que les encodeurs sur axes soient installés
et que les informations de positions soient renvoyées à travers ascom au logiciel d'acquisition.
 
Ce serait une évolution majeur pour Teenastro.
Lui ouvrant d'autres horizons d'utilisateurs exigeants

Charles, je ne sais pas si tu as le temps mais en tant que demandeur je peux être beta testeur,  ayant Prism et une monture pour cela.
Cordialement 
BORIS MALZAK
 

Bonjour François

Tu as raison mais  c'est effectivement ce que je veux éviter
Cela pour gagner en efficacité et faire évoluer Teenastro dans  sa valeur ajoutée technique .

--
Boris
Charles
 

Hi

I am almost done with the encoder support in TeenAstro. It works like it was working in the FS2:
  1. you need a TeenAstro Mini 2.5.x PCB
  2. you will have to sold 4 wires from the bottom part of the Teensy 4.0 to the Teenastro Mini PCB
  3. Then you will need the Main unit firmware 1.3.10 or higher and the SHC firmware 1.3.4 or higher
  4. Then you must configure each encoder there is a gear, a pulse per rotation parameter and a reverse parameter.
  5. it is a bit tricky to get the parameter correctly, I will create an auto calibrate procedure in the SHC and webserver  to simplify the setup
  6. Then you can configure the maximum difference between the telescop and the Encoder, if the difference is bigger than the set tolerance the telescop resync automatocally. it can be deactivated.
  7. The encoder routine use the Telescop alignment
  8. if the Telescop is resync the Encoder is resync too automatically
I played a bit with my em-200 and and a JMI kit

Charles
BORIS MALZAK
 

Top ! Charles !

Envoyé depuis l'application Mail Orange


----------------
De : Charles <charleslemaire37@...>
Envoyé : samedi 21 janvier 2023 14:49
À : TeenAstro@groups.io
Objet : Re: [TeenAstro] encoder support in TeenAstro

Hi

I am almost done with the encoder support in TeenAstro. It works like it was working in the FS2:
  1. you need a TeenAstro Mini 2.5.x PCB
  2. you will have to sold 4 wires from the bottom part of the Teensy 4.0 to the Teenastro Mini PCB
  3. Then you will need the Main unit firmware 1.3.10 or higher and the SHC firmware 1.3.4 or higher
  4. Then you must configure each encoder there is a gear, a pulse per rotation parameter and a reverse parameter.
  5. it is a bit tricky to get the parameter correctly, I will create an auto calibrate procedure in the SHC and webserver  to simplify the setup
  6. Then you can configure the maximum difference between the telescop and the Encoder, if the difference is bigger than the set tolerance the telescop resync automatocally. it can be deactivated.
  7. The encoder routine use the Telescop alignment
  8. if the Telescop is resync the Encoder is resync too automatically
I played a bit with my em-200 and and a JMI kit

Charles
--
Boris
François Desvallées
 

Hi Charles, this is cool. Is it going to work with Takahashi Temma where the encoder is on the worm axis (I think)?

On 21/01/2023 14:49 CET Charles <charleslemaire37@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi

I am almost done with the encoder support in TeenAstro. It works like it was working in the FS2:
  1. you need a TeenAstro Mini 2.5.x PCB
  2. you will have to sold 4 wires from the bottom part of the Teensy 4.0 to the Teenastro Mini PCB
  3. Then you will need the Main unit firmware 1.3.10 or higher and the SHC firmware 1.3.4 or higher
  4. Then you must configure each encoder there is a gear, a pulse per rotation parameter and a reverse parameter.
  5. it is a bit tricky to get the parameter correctly, I will create an auto calibrate procedure in the SHC and webserver  to simplify the setup
  6. Then you can configure the maximum difference between the telescop and the Encoder, if the difference is bigger than the set tolerance the telescop resync automatocally. it can be deactivated.
  7. The encoder routine use the Telescop alignment
  8. if the Telescop is resync the Encoder is resync too automatically
I played a bit with my em-200 and and a JMI kit

Charles

Charles
 

No this is another use case. If Optique Unterlinden can provide me this hardware I could do the modification.

Charles


Am Sa., 21. Jan. 2023 um 18:03 Uhr schrieb François Desvallées via groups.io <fdesvallees=mailbox.org@groups.io>:

Hi Charles, this is cool. Is it going to work with Takahashi Temma where the encoder is on the worm axis (I think)?
On 21/01/2023 14:49 CET Charles <charleslemaire37@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi

I am almost done with the encoder support in TeenAstro. It works like it was working in the FS2:
  1. you need a TeenAstro Mini 2.5.x PCB
  2. you will have to sold 4 wires from the bottom part of the Teensy 4.0 to the Teenastro Mini PCB
  3. Then you will need the Main unit firmware 1.3.10 or higher and the SHC firmware 1.3.4 or higher
  4. Then you must configure each encoder there is a gear, a pulse per rotation parameter and a reverse parameter.
  5. it is a bit tricky to get the parameter correctly, I will create an auto calibrate procedure in the SHC and webserver  to simplify the setup
  6. Then you can configure the maximum difference between the telescop and the Encoder, if the difference is bigger than the set tolerance the telescop resync automatocally. it can be deactivated.
  7. The encoder routine use the Telescop alignment
  8. if the Telescop is resync the Encoder is resync too automatically
I played a bit with my em-200 and and a JMI kit

Charles

1 - 20 of 36