Topics

Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?


Ryan G <RyanGard@...>
 

Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies, mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier for communications on my side of the fence.

Thank you

Ryan
K0CTR


Larry J. Ford K4AEC
 

It may be possible to "open-up" the TM-D700A to transmit on those
"out-of-band" frequencies, but it would not make it legal to do so.

Radios which are designed and sold for those frequencies are "type-accepted"
by the FCC for those bands.

Amateur radios are NOT type-accepted by the FCC, and thus cannot be legally
operated on other bands for which type-acceptance by the FCC is required, with
the possible exception of operation during an actual emergency situation (and
also MARS bands for which DoD regulations apply).

Larry J. Ford
KG4GPJ

------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:07:49 PM EDT
From: Ryan G <RyanGard@...>
To: "TMD700A@..." <tmd700a@...>
Subject: [TMD700A] Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?

Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with
communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is
possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies,
mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the
police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local
Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be
able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier
for communications on my side of the fence.

Thank you

Ryan
K0CTR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jeff Dugas (Mobile) <N5TEV@...>
 

I have not tried, but with the extended frequency TX mod, it should be possible. But ...

For regular routine S&R volunteer operations, I don't know if that is allowed with regard to FCC Type Approval for the radio.

For a bonafide emergency involving safety of life or property, however, I believe you are allowed to operate on any frequency.

Also, using the same antenna for 2M/440 would probably result in a poor match and less than optimum performance at 154-156 MHz.

Just my two cents.

Jeff
N5TEV


Ryan G <RyanGard@...> wrote:

Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies, mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier for communications on my side of the fence.

Thank you

Ryan
K0CTR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Larry J. Ford K4AEC
 

Does the FCC "narrow-band" requirement apply to the public service bands now?


I'm thinking that it may, and unless the TM-D700A is capable of narrow-band
TX, then that may be another reason it would not be legal to use it on those
bands except in the case of a genuine emergency.

Larry J. Ford
KG4GPJ

------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:24:54 PM EDT
From: "Jeff Dugas (Mobile)" <N5TEV@...>
To: TMD700A@...
Subject: Re: [TMD700A] Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?

I have not tried, but with the extended frequency TX mod, it should be
possible. But ...

For regular routine S&R volunteer operations, I don't know if that is
allowed with regard to FCC Type Approval for the radio.

For a bonafide emergency involving safety of life or property, however, I
believe you are allowed to operate on any frequency.

Also, using the same antenna for 2M/440 would probably result in a poor
match and less than optimum performance at 154-156 MHz.

Just my two cents.

Jeff
N5TEV


Ryan G <RyanGard@...> wrote:

Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with
communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is
possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies,
mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the
police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local
Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be
able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier
for communications on my side of the fence.

Thank you

Ryan
K0CTR






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Tim Hardy AF1G <hardyt@...>
 

There are several Chinese-made radios, both portable and mobile, that are FCC-approved (the FCC no longer “type-accepts” radios) for use in the Part 90 public safety bands. They also work in the amateur bands and are generally sold as amateur radio products. The Wouxun portables and mobiles, the Baofeng portables, and the Anytone AT-5888UV are examples of these. They are all programmable from the front panel.



As Jeff said below, if your antenna is tuned for the ham bands, you will have a poor match in the public safety bands.



I once tried using a single radio for both public safety and amateur use and found the biggest problem was during scan. In fact, my D-700A is modified for expanded frequencies, but…. I would hear a friend on a ham freq, and by the time I grabbed the mic and answered the ham station, the radio had resumed scanning and I found myself giving my amateur call on a public safety system. After being embarrassed a few times, I went ahead and purchased a 50 watt commercial radio for public safety use and installed a tuned antenna for that band. The RELM, Midland, and HYT series of mobiles are an economical way to add a radio for dedicated SAR and public safety use. Incidentally, I am a Deputy Sheriff and authorized to use a number of PubSaf freqs.



I still have PubSaf frequencies in some of my ham radios for scanning (listening), but the programmed offsets for those channels ensure that any accidental transmissions will be only within the ham bands.



Tim, AF1G



From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf Of Jeff Dugas (Mobile)
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:24 PM
To: TMD700A@...
Subject: Re: [TMD700A] Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?





I have not tried, but with the extended frequency TX mod, it should be possible. But ...

For regular routine S&R volunteer operations, I don't know if that is allowed with regard to FCC Type Approval for the radio.

For a bonafide emergency involving safety of life or property, however, I believe you are allowed to operate on any frequency.

Also, using the same antenna for 2M/440 would probably result in a poor match and less than optimum performance at 154-156 MHz.

Just my two cents.

Jeff
N5TEV

Ryan G <RyanGard@... <mailto:RyanGard%40hotmail.com> > wrote:

Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies, mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier for communications on my side of the fence.

Thank you

Ryan
K0CTR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6401 - Release Date: 06/11/13

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6401 - Release Date: 06/11/13



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ryan G <RyanGard@...>
 

Thank you for the great information here folks, I appreciate it. I have followed the advice of those who have responded back and just purchased the proper antenna. I don't anticipate needing to use it much for my responsibilities with S&R, and the frequencies we use are "simpex" S&R frequencies, along with the national S&R frequency. With the simplex frequencies that we use I don't believe the narrow band thing is an issue since we transmit and receive on that same frequency, someone correct me if I am wrong. There are a few S&R repeaters throughout the state, which have indeed been modified and updated to be in compliance with the narrow band requirement from what I am told, the only issue thus far has been getting most of the volunteer groups set up with new rigs that are also narrow band compliant. Many of them are using HTs that were donated by law enforcement/fire departments from the 80s and 90s. Lots of fundraisers going on, grants being requested, and what not. I'd guess at this point that at least 50% of the volunteers out there are still using outdated equipment. But you have to do what you have to do when it comes to saving lives.

Again my thanks to all for the feedback and information and I welcome any further comments.



To: TMD700A@...
From: hardyt@...
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 13:55:01 -0400
Subject: RE: [TMD700A] Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?


























There are several Chinese-made radios, both portable and mobile, that are FCC-approved (the FCC no longer type-accepts radios) for use in the Part 90 public safety bands. They also work in the amateur bands and are generally sold as amateur radio products. The Wouxun portables and mobiles, the Baofeng portables, and the Anytone AT-5888UV are examples of these. They are all programmable from the front panel.



As Jeff said below, if your antenna is tuned for the ham bands, you will have a poor match in the public safety bands.



I once tried using a single radio for both public safety and amateur use and found the biggest problem was during scan. In fact, my D-700A is modified for expanded frequencies, but. I would hear a friend on a ham freq, and by the time I grabbed the mic and answered the ham station, the radio had resumed scanning and I found myself giving my amateur call on a public safety system. After being embarrassed a few times, I went ahead and purchased a 50 watt commercial radio for public safety use and installed a tuned antenna for that band. The RELM, Midland, and HYT series of mobiles are an economical way to add a radio for dedicated SAR and public safety use. Incidentally, I am a Deputy Sheriff and authorized to use a number of PubSaf freqs.



I still have PubSaf frequencies in some of my ham radios for scanning (listening), but the programmed offsets for those channels ensure that any accidental transmissions will be only within the ham bands.



Tim, AF1G



From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf Of Jeff Dugas (Mobile)

Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:24 PM

To: TMD700A@...

Subject: Re: [TMD700A] Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?



I have not tried, but with the extended frequency TX mod, it should be possible. But ...



For regular routine S&R volunteer operations, I don't know if that is allowed with regard to FCC Type Approval for the radio.



For a bonafide emergency involving safety of life or property, however, I believe you are allowed to operate on any frequency.



Also, using the same antenna for 2M/440 would probably result in a poor match and less than optimum performance at 154-156 MHz.



Just my two cents.



Jeff

N5TEV



Ryan G <RyanGard@... <mailto:RyanGard%40hotmail.com> > wrote:



Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies, mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier for communications on my side of the fence.
Thank you
Ryan
K0CTR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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_____



No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6401 - Release Date: 06/11/13



No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6401 - Release Date: 06/11/13



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Frank or Barbara Rossi <n3flr@...>
 

Try this page, I think it also enables the cross band repeat with this mod.
http://www.kb2ljj.com/data/kenwood/TM-D700.htm
Did mine years ago to get the cross band repeat to work before it was legal.
There is several pages with info you can find in Google.
The D-700 won't do narrow band like the D-710, so use at own risk.
N3FLR - Frank

On 6/11/2013 12:07 PM, Ryan G wrote:
Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies, mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier for communications on my side of the fence.

Thank you

Ryan
K0CTR






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Randy Allen
 

On 6/11/2013 13:40, LARRY J. FORD wrote:
Does the FCC "narrow-band" requirement apply to the public service bands
now?
Yes, since 0001 Eastern 1 Jan 2013

And to answer a point brought up in another e-mail on this thread, that applies to public safety/service Simplex frequencies as well to the best of my knowledge.

73

--
Randy Allen, KA�AZS


Ralph Milnes
 

Ryan,

Let me be more emphatic. If you transmit on those frequencies with the TMD-700 you will be operation ILLEGALLY. I strongly recommend that you DON'T DO IT, even if you find a modification to do it.

Here's why:

o Search and Rescue operations are not, per se, life or death. In most cases, you don't know the condition of the subject. You can't say conclusively that their life is in imminent danger (heck, they may already be dead) and that you need to use any available frequency. You can argue your rationale with the FCC but you risk a large fine if your argument doesn't satisfy them.

Plus others have mentioned:

o The radio is not approved by the FCC for operation on those frequencies for non-life threatening situations. You risk a FCC fine if you use it on those frequencies.

O The transmit signals on those frequencies must now be "narrow band" or a max of 12.5 KHz wide (since 1/1/2013). I believe the D700 transmits "wide band" only or 25 KHz wide. Again, you risk a FCC fine if you transmit "wide band" on those frequencies.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'm not trying to be the police officer on this. I won't be the one to report you. I'm just trying to keep you out of trouble. Will you get caught? I can't say. Will you get fined? I can't say. But you are putting yourself at risk for some painful discipline despite your well meaning and generous intentions.

As others have suggested, get a radio approved for transmission on those frequencies. Both Wouxun and Anytone make hand-held and mobile radios that will transmit on BOTH the ham and commercial/public service frequencies legally. The HT costs about $140 and the mobile costs about $290. If you don't have the money, perhaps a local foundation will grant the money for you and your team to buy some proper radios.

And so you know, I am the radio officer for my Search and Rescue group here in New Mexico, so I have looked into this issue.

Thank you for your service -- but please stay out of trouble with the FCC.

73,

Ralph Milnes NM5RM

-----------------

Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?
Posted by: "Ryan G" RyanGard@... ry_guy1977
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:07 am ((PDT))

Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies, mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier for communications on my side of the fence.

Thank you

Ryan
K0CTR


-------------------------------------------------------


Ryan G <RyanGard@...>
 

I appreciate the info and concern and have chosen not to violate the laws in anyway thus I will not be doing it.

To: TMD700A@...
CC: RyanGard@...
From: ralphmilnes@...
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 10:43:50 -0600
Subject: RE: [TMD700A] Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?




























Ryan,



Let me be more emphatic. If you transmit on those frequencies with the TMD-700 you will be operation ILLEGALLY. I strongly recommend that you DON'T DO IT, even if you find a modification to do it.



Here's why:



o Search and Rescue operations are not, per se, life or death. In most cases, you don't know the condition of the subject. You can't say conclusively that their life is in imminent danger (heck, they may already be dead) and that you need to use any available frequency. You can argue your rationale with the FCC but you risk a large fine if your argument doesn't satisfy them.



Plus others have mentioned:



o The radio is not approved by the FCC for operation on those frequencies for non-life threatening situations. You risk a FCC fine if you use it on those frequencies.



O The transmit signals on those frequencies must now be "narrow band" or a max of 12.5 KHz wide (since 1/1/2013). I believe the D700 transmits "wide band" only or 25 KHz wide. Again, you risk a FCC fine if you transmit "wide band" on those frequencies.



Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'm not trying to be the police officer on this. I won't be the one to report you. I'm just trying to keep you out of trouble. Will you get caught? I can't say. Will you get fined? I can't say. But you are putting yourself at risk for some painful discipline despite your well meaning and generous intentions.



As others have suggested, get a radio approved for transmission on those frequencies. Both Wouxun and Anytone make hand-held and mobile radios that will transmit on BOTH the ham and commercial/public service frequencies legally. The HT costs about $140 and the mobile costs about $290. If you don't have the money, perhaps a local foundation will grant the money for you and your team to buy some proper radios.



And so you know, I am the radio officer for my Search and Rescue group here in New Mexico, so I have looked into this issue.



Thank you for your service -- but please stay out of trouble with the FCC.



73,



Ralph Milnes NM5RM



-----------------



Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?

Posted by: "Ryan G" RyanGard@... ry_guy1977

Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:07 am ((PDT))



Howdy folks- As I am involved with helping a S&R group out with communications in addition to my amateur duties, I am looking to see if it is possible to modify the TMD700A to transmit on the 154.000-156.000 frequencies, mainly the S&R channels. (yes I am very much aware they also serve the police, fire, & ems services, as I also volunteer and have worked for a local Sheriff's Office) I at one time had a TM-V7A that had been modified to be able to do this, which is why I am asking. It would make things much easier for communications on my side of the fence.



Thank you



Ryan

K0CTR





-------------------------------------------------------



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


noskosteve
 

Beating this horse carcass just a few more times... A few fine points on the subject of "opening up" an Amateur transmitter.

Yes, it is illegal to transmit out of the ham bands in the US and probably elsewhere, but see ** below.


... (the FCC no longer type-accepts radios) ...
The term now used is "certification" though the process is the same as what had been called "Type Acceptance". In general, Amateur radio equipment was never type accepted and is NOT certified in the same way (the Amplifier thing is a bit different). Only radios that can do scanning are certified to not exceed the Part 15 *radiated* emissions - nothing more. I was also surprised when I first learned this about commercial Ham gear.
Ham equipment is not required to be certified because we can build our own stuff as well as modify commercial radios to use on ham frequencies (as long as we use due-diligence to meet the rules) - but NOT the other way around. True FCC Certification requires measurements, showing that they meet *all* FCC requirements, for just about all operating parameters, Tx and Rx.


...unless the TM-D700A is capable of narrow-band TX, then that may be another reason it would not be legal to use it on those bands except in the case of a genuine emergency.
1 - The radio is not FCC Certified for its operating performance for ANY radio service and therefore, the single item of the lack of narrow band operation is irrelevant for legality in services other than Amateur (in the US).

2 - Actually you can 'light up' the N in the display of a US "K" radio with the command into the serial port. I suspect that the filter switching signal inside the radio (out of the processor) is functional and that some other function could be enabled this way, but I haven't looked into it. It could be a nifty way to enable some custom circuitry added to your D700, or externally.


** For a true emergency, life-or-limb situation *any* communication means you use is acceptable in the eyes of the FCC.


Did mine years ago to get the cross band repeat to work before it was legal.
I don't believe it was ever illegal to cross band repeat as long as you did your control from 440 (above the 220 band, I think it is/was - too lazy to open my Part 97)...was it? I'm sure someone will correct me. [the TS-2000 Sky Command had a problem because some of the control happens on 2 meters. Kenwood petitioned the FCC and got Sky Command allowed]

I also think that the official SAR people would (should) be aware of all this and not allow non-certified radios in commercial frequency SAR service.

--
73, Steve, K9DCI
- Retired design engineer and commercial radio certification lab manager.


Michael Champion <mikec@...>
 

I'll kick that horse a couple times too. The SAR teams around here do
not allow the use of modified ham radios during any operation. They
have to prove they are using "certified" or "Type accepted"radio.



-Michael



From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf
Of noskosteve
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:01 PM
To: TMD700A@...
Subject: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?






Beating this horse carcass just a few more times... A few fine points on
the subject of "opening up" an Amateur transmitter.

Yes, it is illegal to transmit out of the ham bands in the US and
probably elsewhere, but see ** below.

... (the FCC no longer type-accepts radios) ...
The term now used is "certification" though the process is the same as
what had been called "Type Acceptance". In general, Amateur radio
equipment was never type accepted and is NOT certified in the same way
(the Amplifier thing is a bit different). Only radios that can do
scanning are certified to not exceed the Part 15 *radiated* emissions -
nothing more. I was also surprised when I first learned this about
commercial Ham gear.
Ham equipment is not required to be certified because we can build our
own stuff as well as modify commercial radios to use on ham frequencies
(as long as we use due-diligence to meet the rules) - but NOT the other
way around. True FCC Certification requires measurements, showing that
they meet *all* FCC requirements, for just about all operating
parameters, Tx and Rx.

...unless the TM-D700A is capable of narrow-band TX, then that may be
another reason it would not be legal to use it on those bands except in
the case of a genuine emergency.

1 - The radio is not FCC Certified for its operating performance for ANY
radio service and therefore, the single item of the lack of narrow band
operation is irrelevant for legality in services other than Amateur (in
the US).

2 - Actually you can 'light up' the N in the display of a US "K" radio
with the command into the serial port. I suspect that the filter
switching signal inside the radio (out of the processor) is functional
and that some other function could be enabled this way, but I haven't
looked into it. It could be a nifty way to enable some custom circuitry
added to your D700, or externally.

** For a true emergency, life-or-limb situation *any* communication
means you use is acceptable in the eyes of the FCC.

Did mine years ago to get the cross band repeat to work before it was
legal.

I don't believe it was ever illegal to cross band repeat as long as you
did your control from 440 (above the 220 band, I think it is/was - too
lazy to open my Part 97)...was it? I'm sure someone will correct me.
[the TS-2000 Sky Command had a problem because some of the control
happens on 2 meters. Kenwood petitioned the FCC and got Sky Command
allowed]

I also think that the official SAR people would (should) be aware of all
this and not allow non-certified radios in commercial frequency SAR
service.

--
73, Steve, K9DCI
- Retired design engineer and commercial radio certification lab
manager.


Ryan G <RyanGard@...>
 

Not all S&R teams are that fortunate. Some have to make do with what they have. They may not be 100% legal, but they get the job done when everything is said and done, being in compliance of FCC policy is the least concern when it comes to saving lives. You can look at that statement two ways though.

To: TMD700A@...
From: mikec@...
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:27:14 -0700
Subject: RE: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?


























I'll kick that horse a couple times too. The SAR teams around here do

not allow the use of modified ham radios during any operation. They

have to prove they are using "certified" or "Type accepted"radio.



-Michael



From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf

Of noskosteve

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:01 PM

To: TMD700A@...

Subject: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?



Beating this horse carcass just a few more times... A few fine points on

the subject of "opening up" an Amateur transmitter.



Yes, it is illegal to transmit out of the ham bands in the US and

probably elsewhere, but see ** below.



... (the FCC no longer type-accepts radios) ...


The term now used is "certification" though the process is the same as

what had been called "Type Acceptance". In general, Amateur radio

equipment was never type accepted and is NOT certified in the same way

(the Amplifier thing is a bit different). Only radios that can do

scanning are certified to not exceed the Part 15 *radiated* emissions -

nothing more. I was also surprised when I first learned this about

commercial Ham gear.

Ham equipment is not required to be certified because we can build our

own stuff as well as modify commercial radios to use on ham frequencies

(as long as we use due-diligence to meet the rules) - but NOT the other

way around. True FCC Certification requires measurements, showing that

they meet *all* FCC requirements, for just about all operating

parameters, Tx and Rx.



...unless the TM-D700A is capable of narrow-band TX, then that may be
another reason it would not be legal to use it on those bands except in

the case of a genuine emergency.



1 - The radio is not FCC Certified for its operating performance for ANY

radio service and therefore, the single item of the lack of narrow band

operation is irrelevant for legality in services other than Amateur (in

the US).



2 - Actually you can 'light up' the N in the display of a US "K" radio

with the command into the serial port. I suspect that the filter

switching signal inside the radio (out of the processor) is functional

and that some other function could be enabled this way, but I haven't

looked into it. It could be a nifty way to enable some custom circuitry

added to your D700, or externally.



** For a true emergency, life-or-limb situation *any* communication

means you use is acceptable in the eyes of the FCC.



Did mine years ago to get the cross band repeat to work before it was
legal.



I don't believe it was ever illegal to cross band repeat as long as you

did your control from 440 (above the 220 band, I think it is/was - too

lazy to open my Part 97)...was it? I'm sure someone will correct me.

[the TS-2000 Sky Command had a problem because some of the control

happens on 2 meters. Kenwood petitioned the FCC and got Sky Command

allowed]



I also think that the official SAR people would (should) be aware of all

this and not allow non-certified radios in commercial frequency SAR

service.



--

73, Steve, K9DCI

- Retired design engineer and commercial radio certification lab

manager.























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Michael Champion <mikec@...>
 

In all honesty, you can get surplus radios for SAR use far cheaper than
a ham radio. They can be programmed up and then done. They usually
hold up better as well. It's really hard to argue for modified ham
radios in this mode of operation. I was quite upset when they set this
policy as I lost a source of fun cash modifying their radios. :) But
after seeing many of the ham radios mic cables fall apart or buttons
stop working or just plain quit transmitting, it was obvious the surplus
gear was a better option all around. I got the gear to program the
Motorola radios and that was that.

-Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf
Of Ryan G
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:31 PM
To: TMD700A@...
Subject: RE: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?

Not all S&R teams are that fortunate. Some have to make do with what
they have. They may not be 100% legal, but they get the job done when
everything is said and done, being in compliance of FCC policy is the
least concern when it comes to saving lives. You can look at that
statement two ways though.

To: TMD700A@...
From: mikec@...
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:27:14 -0700
Subject: RE: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?


























I'll kick that horse a couple times too. The SAR teams around
here do

not allow the use of modified ham radios during any operation. They

have to prove they are using "certified" or "Type accepted"radio.



-Michael



From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf

Of noskosteve

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:01 PM

To: TMD700A@...

Subject: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?



Beating this horse carcass just a few more times... A few fine points on

the subject of "opening up" an Amateur transmitter.



Yes, it is illegal to transmit out of the ham bands in the US and

probably elsewhere, but see ** below.



... (the FCC no longer type-accepts radios) ...


The term now used is "certification" though the process is the same as

what had been called "Type Acceptance". In general, Amateur radio

equipment was never type accepted and is NOT certified in the same way

(the Amplifier thing is a bit different). Only radios that can do

scanning are certified to not exceed the Part 15 *radiated* emissions -

nothing more. I was also surprised when I first learned this about

commercial Ham gear.

Ham equipment is not required to be certified because we can build our

own stuff as well as modify commercial radios to use on ham frequencies

(as long as we use due-diligence to meet the rules) - but NOT the other

way around. True FCC Certification requires measurements, showing that

they meet *all* FCC requirements, for just about all operating

parameters, Tx and Rx.



...unless the TM-D700A is capable of narrow-band TX, then that may be
another reason it would not be legal to use it on those bands except in

the case of a genuine emergency.



1 - The radio is not FCC Certified for its operating performance for ANY

radio service and therefore, the single item of the lack of narrow band

operation is irrelevant for legality in services other than Amateur (in

the US).



2 - Actually you can 'light up' the N in the display of a US "K" radio

with the command into the serial port. I suspect that the filter

switching signal inside the radio (out of the processor) is functional

and that some other function could be enabled this way, but I haven't

looked into it. It could be a nifty way to enable some custom circuitry

added to your D700, or externally.



** For a true emergency, life-or-limb situation *any* communication

means you use is acceptable in the eyes of the FCC.



Did mine years ago to get the cross band repeat to work before it was
legal.



I don't believe it was ever illegal to cross band repeat as long as you

did your control from 440 (above the 220 band, I think it is/was - too

lazy to open my Part 97)...was it? I'm sure someone will correct me.

[the TS-2000 Sky Command had a problem because some of the control

happens on 2 meters. Kenwood petitioned the FCC and got Sky Command

allowed]



I also think that the official SAR people would (should) be aware of all

this and not allow non-certified radios in commercial frequency SAR

service.



--

73, Steve, K9DCI

- Retired design engineer and commercial radio certification lab

manager.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Post message: TMD700A@...
Subscribe: TMD700A-subscribe@...
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Tom Schaefer NY4I
 

We are pretty far afield of something directly related to the D700 so let's close this thread down if that is ok

Thanks

Tom NY4I

On Jun 17, 2013, at 12:44 AM, "Michael Champion" <mikec@...> wrote:

In all honesty, you can get surplus radios for SAR use far cheaper than
a ham radio. They can be programmed up and then done. They usually
hold up better as well. It's really hard to argue for modified ham
radios in this mode of operation. I was quite upset when they set this
policy as I lost a source of fun cash modifying their radios. :) But
after seeing many of the ham radios mic cables fall apart or buttons
stop working or just plain quit transmitting, it was obvious the surplus
gear was a better option all around. I got the gear to program the
Motorola radios and that was that.

-Michael


-----Original Message-----
From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf
Of Ryan G
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:31 PM
To: TMD700A@...
Subject: RE: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?

Not all S&R teams are that fortunate. Some have to make do with what
they have. They may not be 100% legal, but they get the job done when
everything is said and done, being in compliance of FCC policy is the
least concern when it comes to saving lives. You can look at that
statement two ways though.

To: TMD700A@...
From: mikec@...
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:27:14 -0700
Subject: RE: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?


























I'll kick that horse a couple times too. The SAR teams around
here do

not allow the use of modified ham radios during any operation. They

have to prove they are using "certified" or "Type accepted"radio.



-Michael



From: TMD700A@... [mailto:TMD700A@...] On Behalf

Of noskosteve

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:01 PM

To: TMD700A@...

Subject: [TMD700A] Re: Transmit on VHF 154-156.000 range?



Beating this horse carcass just a few more times... A few fine points on

the subject of "opening up" an Amateur transmitter.



Yes, it is illegal to transmit out of the ham bands in the US and

probably elsewhere, but see ** below.



... (the FCC no longer type-accepts radios) ...


The term now used is "certification" though the process is the same as

what had been called "Type Acceptance". In general, Amateur radio

equipment was never type accepted and is NOT certified in the same way

(the Amplifier thing is a bit different). Only radios that can do

scanning are certified to not exceed the Part 15 *radiated* emissions -

nothing more. I was also surprised when I first learned this about

commercial Ham gear.

Ham equipment is not required to be certified because we can build our

own stuff as well as modify commercial radios to use on ham frequencies

(as long as we use due-diligence to meet the rules) - but NOT the other

way around. True FCC Certification requires measurements, showing that

they meet *all* FCC requirements, for just about all operating

parameters, Tx and Rx.



...unless the TM-D700A is capable of narrow-band TX, then that may be
another reason it would not be legal to use it on those bands except in

the case of a genuine emergency.



1 - The radio is not FCC Certified for its operating performance for ANY

radio service and therefore, the single item of the lack of narrow band

operation is irrelevant for legality in services other than Amateur (in

the US).



2 - Actually you can 'light up' the N in the display of a US "K" radio

with the command into the serial port. I suspect that the filter

switching signal inside the radio (out of the processor) is functional

and that some other function could be enabled this way, but I haven't

looked into it. It could be a nifty way to enable some custom circuitry

added to your D700, or externally.



** For a true emergency, life-or-limb situation *any* communication

means you use is acceptable in the eyes of the FCC.



Did mine years ago to get the cross band repeat to work before it was
legal.



I don't believe it was ever illegal to cross band repeat as long as you

did your control from 440 (above the 220 band, I think it is/was - too

lazy to open my Part 97)...was it? I'm sure someone will correct me.

[the TS-2000 Sky Command had a problem because some of the control

happens on 2 meters. Kenwood petitioned the FCC and got Sky Command

allowed]



I also think that the official SAR people would (should) be aware of all

this and not allow non-certified radios in commercial frequency SAR

service.



--

73, Steve, K9DCI

- Retired design engineer and commercial radio certification lab

manager.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]























------------------------------------

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