Date   

Re: TNC Quirks

Joshua KJ7LVZ
 

Thanks, David.  APRS on the TM-V71A was my first intro to FM Packet.  I didn't want to buy a Mobilinkd so I built one.  I didn't want to buy a cable, so I built one.  The bonus is, the DIN cable I bought had the same connector on both ends so I chopped it in the middle and build the other side into an audio cable for my FT-891.  I use a Samsung Tab 3 for APRS in the truck most of the time.  I'm trying to branch out into more packet stuff which has let me here.  Since I already have the KISS TNC and TM-V71A in one truck, I want to be able to use that setup.  The unit base is under my seat so changing cables isn't convenient.  I could build another adapter to a USB sound card and separate PTT line if it comes to that but I'd like to keep the bluetooth TNC interface for convenience.  

So, sounds like we have the same setup.  When I was on a drive and tuned to 145.010, APRS Droid decoded a digipeater beacon for packet work and that's what got me interested.  APRS is cool but I'd like to actually connect with people over packet.  Almost no one responds to messages through APRS.  It's a shame because APRS was intended for situational awareness, not just vehicle tracking.  I send out traffic bulletins from time to time on 144.390.


Re: TNC Quirks

David Erickson - AB0R
 

On 5/23/2021 4:45 PM, Joshua KJ7LVZ wrote:
The reason I fell into Simple KISS from BPQ is that it made sense to me but I'm new to this so that doesn't mean much.  I want to create connected mode sessions to interact with BBS's, Winlink, chat, and other things I come across.  I also want to send out beacons and bulletins through unconnected packets.  I don't have an Elmer and the interwebs hasn't been very clear on these things so I have had to hack through it on my own.  You have given me the most information yet.  I've saved the links/documents you have shared and I'm reading through them.
It looks like JNOS does what I want.  I'm going to download your "linpac" software to see how it does.  I started with BPQ32 because I saw it mentioned a lot.  For practice and experimentation I will be running a BPQ32 node in my truck on a Pi/TM-V71A and connecting to it through a my TM-D710G TNC and probably a Pi as well.  My main truck for travel has the V71A, my offroader has the D710G.  When I travel and want to make a packet connection, I'll want to use my V71A so I need to get comfortable with making connections though the Pi (ie. Linux.).
I do like the V71A a lot.  It was my first ham radio and it is still probably my favorite.  I got the 710G to play with packet radio a little more.  I have a FTM-400 but didn't like it.  Too much bling, not enough function.  At home I have a TM-281.  If I setup a node permanently, I will probably use one of them.  It's a good analog radio, affordable, and 65 watts.  I can hack a cable together to run packet via a Pi.
Good info, thanks for the references and information.
Hi Joshua,

I didn't follow this real close but when I saw you mention the TMV71 it make me take note.

I too had some surprises when trying to connect to the TNC in my 710. I have since put the 710 in my daily driver and use the TMV71 in the shack for repeaters and APRS.

I have been quite happy using a Mobilinkd TNC (v2) with APRSdroid on my Galaxy S20 Ultra. (You could also use a cheap tablet off amazon) It works quite well and you can get the cable to plug it right into the audio port on the back of the radio from Mobilinkd.

This isn't a perfect solution for a digipeater or similar but it's great for letting my friends know I'm on the air and what frequency I'm on ATM.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Have a good one.

--
Dave Erickson
AB0R
73


Re: TNC Quirks

Joshua KJ7LVZ
 

The reason I fell into Simple KISS from BPQ is that it made sense to me but I'm new to this so that doesn't mean much.  I want to create connected mode sessions to interact with BBS's, Winlink, chat, and other things I come across.  I also want to send out beacons and bulletins through unconnected packets.  I don't have an Elmer and the interwebs hasn't been very clear on these things so I have had to hack through it on my own.  You have given me the most information yet.  I've saved the links/documents you have shared and I'm reading through them.  

It looks like JNOS does what I want.  I'm going to download your "linpac" software to see how it does.  I started with BPQ32 because I saw it mentioned a lot.  For practice and experimentation I will be running a BPQ32 node in my truck on a Pi/TM-V71A and connecting to it through a my TM-D710G TNC and probably a Pi as well.  My main truck for travel has the V71A, my offroader has the D710G.  When I travel and want to make a packet connection, I'll want to use my V71A so I need to get comfortable with making connections though the Pi (ie. Linux.). 

I do like the V71A a lot.  It was my first ham radio and it is still probably my favorite.  I got the 710G to play with packet radio a little more.  I have a FTM-400 but didn't like it.  Too much bling, not enough function.  At home I have a TM-281.  If I setup a node permanently, I will probably use one of them.  It's a good analog radio, affordable, and 65 watts.  I can hack a cable together to run packet via a Pi.

Good info, thanks for the references and information.


Re: TNC Quirks

David Ranch
 


Hello Joshua,

One was a Baofeng, one was a Retevis.  I'm only a little surprised since I have a Baofeng setup as a bi-directional iGate and it functions perfectly in that role. 

I could go on and one here about the issues with many of these cheap chinese radios be it their slow and/or inconsistent key up times (requires a high TXDELAY), their slow or inconsistent TX to RX time, inconsistent receiver issues, poor transmission signal quality, etc. and ultimately... all of these issues changing from one radio to the next (little quality from one radio to the next off their production line).  It sounds like you might have gotten a "good" radio but many other people get something less.  You will be far better served buying an older used radio from a decent company than these radios when it comes to consistent packet operation.


I don't see a TNC firmware update on Kenwood's software update page, just the main body and the control head updates.  Also, the release notes don't mention anything consequential.  However, both my main body and control head are two software versions behind.  I'll have to use my work computer to handle the update since Kenwood's update software only works on Windows. 

I looked as well.  If you look at the D710A pages, you can see some TNC firmware updates but I guess the D710G hasn't needed any updates yet.


The Mobilinkd style TNC is a TNC I built using Mobilinkd's schematics and instructions.  It is an Atmel 328P communicating with an HC-05 bluetooth serial adapter exactly like the Mobilinkd.  I have a few photos of building it here: https://joshuajayg.smugmug.com/Tech/Ham/TNC/

Gotcha.  Those setups really are pretty impressive in how they do so much but you're still sacrificing 1200bps AFSK decode rates compared to say Direwolf, a Kantronics KPC3, UZ7HO soundmodem, etc.  It's all a compromise though.. it get it and these Mobilinkd units aren't bad by any means.


Also, I haven't found that Direwolf has a front end that will emulate a normal TNC like BPQ's Simple KISS does.  If you know of a way it would work, I'm willing to give it a try. 

It all depends on what you're looking to do.  Why do you want to connect to a "classic TNC" serial terminal interface?  Are you looking to create connected mode sessions to remote stations?  Are you looking to send unconnected (unproto) packets?  You can do all of these with Linux's native AX.25 support and either included or third party packet applications with just a KISS TNC.  BPQ32 can do all these things with a KISS TNC w/o the TNC2 UI interface, JNOS can natively do these things, Qtterm + Direwolf's AGW interface can do these things, etc.  I'm personally biased to use LInpac + Linux's AX.25 stack as I maintain that code ( https://sourceforge.net/projects/linpac/ ).


But in reality, I don't know of a reason my D710G needs to receive an incoming connection request.  I imagine I will always initiate the request FROM the 710.

There are packet communities out there that run KB2KB packet stations where people leave packet messages on remote TNCs be it KPC3s, PK232s, D710s, etc.  It's a simple, old school yet effective interface.  The D710 makes this one step easier as the radio and TNC are in one (more expensive) package.  If you're willing to work a bit for it, buying say a Kenwood V71 and connecting it up to say a Raspberry Pi Zero will yield you a solution with a substantially better TNC and a lot more flexibility with what you can do with the setup.  It can be all self-contained, it can offer packet services via Wifi or Bluetooth, etc.  Sky is the limit.

--David
KI6ZHD


Re: TNC Quirks

Joshua KJ7LVZ
 

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 06:13 PM, David Ranch wrote:
Hello Joshua,

When you say "handheld", what radio was this?  If you say Baofeng, I won't be surprised it didn't work well.
One was a Baofeng, one was a Retevis.  I'm only a little surprised since I have a Baofeng setup as a bi-directional iGate and it functions perfectly in that role.  

That's strange to hear it wouldn't accept a connection from the same callsign but a different SSID.  That *should* work.  Are you sure you're running the newest version of the D710 TNC firmware?

   https://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/software_download.html
I don't see a TNC firmware update on Kenwood's software update page, just the main body and the control head updates.  Also, the release notes don't mention anything consequential.  However, both my main body and control head are two software versions behind.  I'll have to use my work computer to handle the update since Kenwood's update software only works on Windows.  

When you say "Mobilinkd style TNC", is this some simple PIC based Bell 202 TNC?  Those can work but their performance isn't all that great.  Since you're a Mac user, consider trying out Direwolf.  It runs natively on the Mac and it's performance is practically unbeaten by any other hardware or software TNC out there:

   https://github.com/wb2osz/direwolf

This also works very well on Linux with hardware like Raspberry Pis, etc.  I have a document for that too:  :-)

   https://www.trinityos.com/HAM/CentosDigitalModes/RPi/rpi4-setup.html


Anyway..that's all food for future though.  Glad to hear you got things working!


--David
KI6ZHD

The Mobilinkd style TNC is a TNC I built using Mobilinkd's schematics and instructions.  It is an Atmel 328P communicating with an HC-05 bluetooth serial adapter exactly like the Mobilinkd.  I have a few photos of building it here: https://joshuajayg.smugmug.com/Tech/Ham/TNC/

I am using Direwolf on my iGate and I use it for my HF pi.  The iGate uses a GPIO pin for PTT and the HF rig uses CAT over FLRIG for PTT.  I haven't really considered it for my Mac since I would have to build another cable to access my USB sound card dongle and then I would not have a good PTT solution.  Also, I haven't found that Direwolf has a front end that will emulate a normal TNC like BPQ's Simple KISS does.  If you know of a way it would work, I'm willing to give it a try. 

But in reality, I don't know of a reason my D710G needs to receive an incoming connection request.  I imagine I will always initiate the request FROM the 710.


Digipeating MY CALLSIGN TH-D74a to TM-D710G

Charles Jessee
 
Edited

I often hike with a KWD TH-D74a running APRS SmartBeaconing. Where there is no/little digipeater coverge, I’d like to park my car at the trailhead and use my KWD TM-D710G to pick up my 5W TH-D74a beacon and digipeat it out.

I looked at some older D700 information below that refers to the ability to digipeat MY CALLSIGN only, which is definitely what I want to do. As N4SRN-7 portable (TH-D74a), will my N4SRN configuration portable (TM-D710G) digipeat, or will I have to match the -SSID too?

also, that 2014 D-700 information notes "UIFLOOD TEMP: This setting should be set permanently in all D700
radios via the serial port to support backup TEMPn-N DIGIPEATING.

I thought that might be accessible via the MCP-6a app but I don’t see it under the Radio Settings. Is there another way to set that via PC or otherwise?

Elsewhere, someone advises that, if my D710G is N4SRN-1 then my D74a be set to path N4SRN-2,RELAY,WIDE1-1

Any advice appreciated!

Bret/N4SRN

http://www.aprs.org/D7xx/d700digi.txt


Re: TNC Quirks

David Ranch
 


Hello Joshua,


First, the handheld(s) I was using wasn't quick enough and wasn't doing a good job at receiving packets

When you say "handheld", what radio was this?  If you say Baofeng, I won't be surprised it didn't work well.


I moved my KISS TNC from a handheld to my TM-V71A and I stopped losing packets.  Second, the TM-D710G wasn't accepting a connection request from its own callsign, even with a different SSID.  I used my wife's callsign for one of the radios and the connection was established on the first try.  So, #1 has been solved.

That's strange to hear it wouldn't accept a connection from the same callsign but a different SSID.  That *should* work.  Are you sure you're running the newest version of the D710 TNC firmware?

   https://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/software_download.html


Since I want to be able to use my TM-V71A with packet radio also and I currently have a homemade Mobilinkd style TNC connected to it for APRS, I decided to try a TNC emulator with that setup.  I use a MacBook as my laptop and that has hindered me greatly but where there is a will, there is a guy who will spend his whole weekend making a way.  I now use a Raspberry Pi Zero W running linBPQ and G8BPQ's Simple KISS configuration.  I connect to the Pi over wifi, SSH into it, start the emulator, open another SSH terminal, start a minicom terminal, and use that as my TNC interface.  It's quite a software dance but it seems to work!

When you say "Mobilinkd style TNC", is this some simple PIC based Bell 202 TNC?  Those can work but their performance isn't all that great.  Since you're a Mac user, consider trying out Direwolf.  It runs natively on the Mac and it's performance is practically unbeaten by any other hardware or software TNC out there:

   https://github.com/wb2osz/direwolf

This also works very well on Linux with hardware like Raspberry Pis, etc.  I have a document for that too:  :-)

   https://www.trinityos.com/HAM/CentosDigitalModes/RPi/rpi4-setup.html


Anyway..that's all food for future though.  Glad to hear you got things working!


--David
KI6ZHD


Re: TNC Quirks

Joshua KJ7LVZ
 

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 01:21 PM, David Ranch wrote:
Hello Joshua,

Your first sentence isn't complete so I cannot tell if you ARE able to create a connection or not but I'm assuming KJ7LVZ-9 (D710 TNC) to KJ7LVZ-2 (BPQ32) works.  It's the reverse path that isn't responding.  Do you have CONOK enabled on the receiving D710 TNC?

   Here is a cheat-sheet that might help
   https://www.trinityos.com/HAM/CentosDigitalModes/misc/D710-TNC-setup.txt
Sorry David, the correct word is "established".  I was able to establish a connection between the TNCs one direction but not the other.  CONOK was on for both TNCs.  Thank you for the link to the cheat-sheat.  I had seen that and was using it along with the manual.  I hacked away at this for a while and realized two things. First, the handheld(s) I was using wasn't quick enough and wasn't doing a good job at receiving packets.  I moved my KISS TNC from a handheld to my TM-V71A and I stopped losing packets.  Second, the TM-D710G wasn't accepting a connection request from its own callsign, even with a different SSID.  I used my wife's callsign for one of the radios and the connection was established on the first try.  So, #1 has been solved.
2. When I am trying to write a message on the Kenwood using the W command, it's all fine and dandy until I want to exit the body using (return), (CTRL+C), (return).  All I get is new lines, the message never finishes.  The only way for me to exit the message is to restart the TNC. 

When you start the message, the TNC prompts you with:

   You terminate with either a <cr>/EX<cr> or <cr><ctrl-Z><cr>

I recommend to use "/ex" as that seems to be the common standard
The "/ex" option works.  I saw it on one of my connections and gave it a try.
#2 is solved.

3. What's the importance of PACLEN?  The TNC on the handheld defaults to 236 even though I have the config file set to 128 and the Kenwood defaults to 128.  They connect fine with different PACLENs.  I can set them the same and everything is still kosher.

PACLEN is the AX.25 payload MTU and the bigger it is, the faster your throughput *could* be assuming you have perfect RF conditions.  If you have poorer RF conditions, you might consider using something smaller like 128 bytes as well as use a smaller packet window (aka "MAXFRAME").   Generally speaking, these are some of the common settings:

   - Excellent RF conditions for UHF/VHF AX.25 - PACLEN: 255
   - Excellent RF conditions for UHF/VHF AX.25 over NETROM - PACLEN: 236

   - Decent RF conditions for UHF/VHF AX.25 - PACLEN: 128
   - Decent RF conditions for HF AX.25 - PACLEN: 64

   - Poor RF conditions for any packet: forget about it - the retries will kill any effective communications


Btw, I have another cheat sheet that takes new Packet users through the using connected and unconnected packet operations here:

   https://www.trinityos.com/HAM/Packet-GettingStarted/getting-started-with-packet-radio.txt

PPs.  You can find ALL TNC commands in the "TNC COMMANDS LIST" section (PDF page 36) of Kenwood D710 instruction manual - http://manual.kenwood.com/files/TM-D710_CD-ROM_English.pdf

--David
KI6ZHD

Thank you for the explanation of PACLEN.  I wasn't sure if one TNC set to a packet length of 128 would have a problem receiving a packet with more than 128 bytes.  Sound like that is not the case. 
I love manuals and already have the full Kenwood manual on my computer to reference.  I will definitely look at the "Getting Started With Packet Radio" document you sent.

Thank you for the help.  

Since I want to be able to use my TM-V71A with packet radio also and I currently have a homemade Mobilinkd style TNC connected to it for APRS, I decided to try a TNC emulator with that setup.  I use a MacBook as my laptop and that has hindered me greatly but where there is a will, there is a guy who will spend his whole weekend making a way.  I now use a Raspberry Pi Zero W running linBPQ and G8BPQ's Simple KISS configuration.  I connect to the Pi over wifi, SSH into it, start the emulator, open another SSH terminal, start a minicom terminal, and use that as my TNC interface.  It's quite a software dance but it seems to work!


Re: TNC Quirks

David Ranch
 


Hello Joshua,

1. I establish a connection from the Kenwood (KJ7LVZ-9) to the handheld (KJ7LVZ-2) which is connected to a Raspberry Pi running linBPQ and Simple KISS.  But when I try and connect to KJ7LVZ-9 from KJ7LVZ-2, I get no response.  The Kenwood never transmits; never responds to the connect request.  CONOK is set to ON on both TNCs.  Can't figure that one out.

Your first sentence isn't complete so I cannot tell if you ARE able to create a connection or not but I'm assuming KJ7LVZ-9 (D710 TNC) to KJ7LVZ-2 (BPQ32) works.  It's the reverse path that isn't responding.  Do you have CONOK enabled on the receiving D710 TNC?

   Here is a cheat-sheet that might help
   https://www.trinityos.com/HAM/CentosDigitalModes/misc/D710-TNC-setup.txt


2. When I am trying to write a message on the Kenwood using the W command, it's all fine and dandy until I want to exit the body using (return), (CTRL+C), (return).  All I get is new lines, the message never finishes.  The only way for me to exit the message is to restart the TNC. 

When you start the message, the TNC prompts you with:

   You terminate with either a <cr>/EX<cr> or <cr><ctrl-Z><cr>

I recommend to use "/ex" as that seems to be the common standard



3. What's the importance of PACLEN?  The TNC on the handheld defaults to 236 even though I have the config file set to 128 and the Kenwood defaults to 128.  They connect fine with different PACLENs.  I can set them the same and everything is still kosher.

PACLEN is the AX.25 payload MTU and the bigger it is, the faster your throughput *could* be assuming you have perfect RF conditions.  If you have poorer RF conditions, you might consider using something smaller like 128 bytes as well as use a smaller packet window (aka "MAXFRAME").   Generally speaking, these are some of the common settings:

   - Excellent RF conditions for UHF/VHF AX.25 - PACLEN: 255
   - Excellent RF conditions for UHF/VHF AX.25 over NETROM - PACLEN: 236

   - Decent RF conditions for UHF/VHF AX.25 - PACLEN: 128
   - Decent RF conditions for HF AX.25 - PACLEN: 64

   - Poor RF conditions for any packet: forget about it - the retries will kill any effective communications


Btw, I have another cheat sheet that takes new Packet users through the using connected and unconnected packet operations here:

   https://www.trinityos.com/HAM/Packet-GettingStarted/getting-started-with-packet-radio.txt

PPs.  You can find ALL TNC commands in the "TNC COMMANDS LIST" section (PDF page 36) of Kenwood D710 instruction manual - http://manual.kenwood.com/files/TM-D710_CD-ROM_English.pdf

--David
KI6ZHD


Re: TNC Quirks

Steve Matzura
 

I have the same problem that you do with issue #1. I'm using APRSIS/32 on a Windows machine with the 710 connected via the RT Systems cable, and all I ever get is comm errors that the port can't be opened.

On 5/22/2021 1:51 PM, Joshua KJ7LVZ wrote:
I am a couple decades behind for packet radio (apart from APRS) but I'm having fun anyway.  I have a TM-D710G and I connect to its TNC through my Macbook and an RT Systems serial to USB converter.  It's simple to connect to the TNC through the Mac's Screen program and I am able to connect to another radio I have setup and enter converse mode. However, I'm running into so quirks I can't overcome.

1. I establish a connection from the Kenwood (KJ7LVZ-9) to the handheld (KJ7LVZ-2) which is connected to a Raspberry Pi running linBPQ and Simple KISS.  But when I try and connect to KJ7LVZ-9 from KJ7LVZ-2, I get no response.  The Kenwood never transmits; never responds to the connect request.  CONOK is set to ON on both TNCs.  Can't figure that one out.

2. When I am trying to write a message on the Kenwood using the W command, it's all fine and dandy until I want to exit the body using (return), (CTRL+C), (return).  All I get is new lines, the message never finishes.  The only way for me to exit the message is to restart the TNC.

3. What's the importance of PACLEN?  The TNC on the handheld defaults to 236 even though I have the config file set to 128 and the Kenwood defaults to 128.  They connect fine with different PACLENs.  I can set them the same and everything is still kosher.


Re: TNC Quirks

Joshua KJ7LVZ
 

#1 seems to be a problem with the implementation of Simple KISS from linBPQ.  I set up a BBS and Chat server on the Pi with a web interface and I could connect to my Kenwood fine through the included terminal.  


TNC Quirks

Joshua KJ7LVZ
 

I am a couple decades behind for packet radio (apart from APRS) but I'm having fun anyway.  I have a TM-D710G and I connect to its TNC through my Macbook and an RT Systems serial to USB converter.  It's simple to connect to the TNC through the Mac's Screen program and I am able to connect to another radio I have setup and enter converse mode.  However, I'm running into so quirks I can't overcome.

1. I establish a connection from the Kenwood (KJ7LVZ-9) to the handheld (KJ7LVZ-2) which is connected to a Raspberry Pi running linBPQ and Simple KISS.  But when I try and connect to KJ7LVZ-9 from KJ7LVZ-2, I get no response.  The Kenwood never transmits; never responds to the connect request.  CONOK is set to ON on both TNCs.  Can't figure that one out.

2. When I am trying to write a message on the Kenwood using the W command, it's all fine and dandy until I want to exit the body using (return), (CTRL+C), (return).  All I get is new lines, the message never finishes.  The only way for me to exit the message is to restart the TNC.  

3. What's the importance of PACLEN?  The TNC on the handheld defaults to 236 even though I have the config file set to 128 and the Kenwood defaults to 128.  They connect fine with different PACLENs.  I can set them the same and everything is still kosher.


Re: TM-D700 fire up issue

 

I neveruse thepowersupply to power on/offense radio, many because of power supplyspikesat startup. That can damage a radio. Use radio power on button, that's what it's for! Just my$0.02


TM-D700 fire up issue

Gundolf
 

Hello, 
I own a TM-D700 for long time. I always keep the unit switched on. Switch off will be taken place by power supply. When I switch PS back on, in the past the TM-D700 came up again. Now, suddenly,  it will not power up. I have to manually switch it on. Then it fires up.
Does anybody have any idea what causes this issue? 
Thank you for any help.

73 de 
DF8FS, Gundolf


Re: Wanted D-700A Control Head

 

RC-350 sent in error it is RC-2000 sorry

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Wanted D-700A Control Head

Dave, W8AAS
 

Check the software download page on the Kenwood web site.  If they have new firmware for your radio, just follow the instructions they have (also on that page) to install it.  Basically, just connect a Windows computer to your radio and run the installer program.  Kenwood makes it easy.


Re: Wanted D-700A Control Head

Mike VE3YF <mike@...>
 

Ron:

I think I would have a better chance finding a D700 Control Head than the RC-2000 Control Head. I am not sure where you heard of a RC-350 Control Head.
--

73 De Mike
VE3YF


Re: Wanted D-700A Control Head

 

RC-350 (?) Control head from Kenwood is compatible, it's the control head for the B2000


Re: Wanted D-700A Control Head

Bob Myers
 

How does one go about updating firmware, if it is indeed out of date?


Re: Wanted D-700A Control Head

 

OOPS KENWOOD REMOTE CONTROL HEAD RC-2000

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