In a message dated 2/7/04 4:23:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, crotalus@...
writes:

You are wrong. When you ID yourself, you also ID the x-bander. Since

Yes, but you are not IDing the transmitter half the you are receiving when
the other person is talking.

Did you actually pass your exam?
--
73 de KA1VGM -Larry

download my free ARES / NTS software at http://www.levektronix.com

I have often found there are blind grommets in the bulkhead for different
wiring for left/right-hand drive versions. Once you have found both sides of
it, just slit it with a knife and it will easily take a 50A cable. When
removed, no-one will ever spot the cut!

Then put a 30A fuse on the battery and a smaller fuse box under the
dash/seat with a few power tails for your kit.

Depending on the car, under-seat mountings can be useful for bolting an
extra strip across, which in turn will take the mobile mount supplied with
the radio. I use slide mounts (CB Snatch plates) to physically mount the
radio for easy removal and a SCART/Peritel connector for all connections
(except the RF!), I don't use the crap connectors on the slide mount!

Hi-tak double-sided tape (the sort used for your interior mirror) is great
for speakers and the front panel base, and can be removed without a trace
providing you don't scratch the surface when removing it. Top of the B
pillars above the seatbelt mounting can be a useful spot for the speakers.




Jim, G1HUL

I am currently using my handheld Kenwood APRS radio in the car.
In the future I'm considering getting the D700A for use in the car. I
just have a couple of questions regarding the installation of this unit:

1) I lease my car and as such I don't think the dealer would
appreciate me drilling holes in various places to install the unit
especially when I go to turn the car back in at the end of the lease
persion. So I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions in not
mounting both the base and the head unit in not such a permanent way. An
alternate goal is to make the unit somewhat transportable between mine
and my wife's car for taking on trips.
2) I was looking at the firewall between the engine compartment
and the passenger compartment for the running of the power wires. I
don't see any way to do it because things are pretty tight and I don't
want to have to drill additional holes in the firewall to run power for
the reasons I mentioned in my first question above. I have an internal
power outlet in the center console that's rated for 120 watts. I would
think this would be sufficient for the radio since it puts out
about 50 watts of transmission power plus a couple of extra watts
to power the other electronics in the radio itself however the specifications
for it have a maximum current of 11.5 amps. At 12 volts my 120 watt
power outlet would only be able to produce 10 amps. I'm curious if
anyone on the list is doing any kind of non-standard power supply like
running off of a power plug inside the cabin or other suggestions?

"Top of the B pillars above the seatbelt mounting can be a useful spot for
the speakers."
Be careful doing this on newer models. It is safe provided it is not in the
path of an airbag. With the abundance of airbags, this could become a
projectile.



Chris Wilkie
W1LKE

Guys & Gals,

SpamGuard has been disabled in this Group. I'm sure many of you have
noticed that valid messages have been flagged as spam. Several other
amateur groups are noticing the same thing and have been turning off
Yahoo's newest 'feature'. Since this group has restricted membership,
we have decided to follow suit. It may take a couple of days for the
change to take effect, but within a day or two, life should return to
normal.

73,

List Management

Well as an ARRL Official Observer this is my thoughts:
When Voice over IP (Voip,I-Link,EchoLink) came on the scene there
was an expolsion of usage. Many stations just began operating
without a thought of what their stations consisted of from a legal
standpoint. Most were auxillary stations and many operators were
clueless of this. This created an instant interference problem for
the "OO"'s.

Riley Hollingsworth officially asked all of us OO's to give a little
and allow this type of operation to go ahead because the innovations
expected to be the results of this new communications only positive
results would come about and I agree.

What was important to me was by bringing this up on this post was
to get everyone to break out the rulebook investigate as we should
about how we operate and what a crossband device really does and to
see technically that these transciever when used this way is in fact
an auxillary device.

The problem that has arisen in recent years is one mistakenly
assumes that because the Japanese radios will perform this function
right out of the box it must be legal to do or they wouldn't market
it here. In Japan this type of operation is not as restrictive as
the in US and that is why they come that way. The Japanese market
dictates how Japanese radios are developed.

Now my official opinion:
Riley has now given the blessing to turning our eyes away from an
issue if it's victims are unseeable. It is up to me to decide how I
will approach this and my approach is I look at the "intent" of the
violator as I have always done.

I think that if you are going to put up an auxillary station on a
long term or permanent basis make it legal at all points. If you are
going to use the crossband device as most of us do running into a
store or if you can't make contact without any other way it, at a
public event etc. You get the idea. Go for it have fun but be sure
you choose a frequency that you can be certain you will not
interfere and if someone accuses you of interfereing than YOU move
it.
I do it myself at times.

And above all have fun and learn

Bob KAØMR






--- In TMD700A@..., gkstemple@a... wrote:

Exactly. How can this problem be addressed? Communications

Specialist's

ID-8? It can be set to "go" several different ways, including

straight time,

but: How to make it "fire" only to the VHF- to-UHF side?

Bob (or anyone else who has done it) what is feasible?

Read Page 6-8 "The ARRL FCC Rule Book" under "Crossband Repeater"
...When operating in this mode,they are called "crossband
repeaters," but in fact are usually operated as remote bases.

...This is okay as lomg as two comditions are met: (1) The user
links to crossband rig on the UHF side. This serves as his control
link, so this is an auxillary station and must be above 222.15 MHz.
(2) The unattended mobile rig is capable of indentifying on it's UHF
output.Since this is a remote base, the usre's ID over the UHF link
to the dual band radio serves also to ID the VHF side, in the other
direction, HOWEVER, THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE USER TO IDENTIFY THE UHF
OUTPUT OF THE REMOTE BASE, so some form of AUTOMATIC ID MUST be
employed. Few radio manufacturers include this ID capability.

Trust me I am not wrong. I have installed numerous auxillary
stations on the amateur bands many many times. And Riley has not
interpreted the rules any other way than what they state in Part
97.119 (Identification) and Subpart C Special Operations 97.201
Auxillary Stations.


Every single transmitter in any radio link must be capable of
identification and every transmitting frequency and if it is
unattended ( in a car far from human intervention )it must operate
under "automatic rules" or the control operate must be able to force
an ID every 10 mintues while transmitting.
Bob KAØMR



--- In TMD700A@..., Mark <crotalus@g...> wrote:

Not true. Since you have to key your radio to bring up the x-band

you

are still controlling it. When you ID for yourself, you also ID

the

x-band. This comes up all the time and is just wrong. I have it

from

the ARRL Section Manager that you are incorrect.

Riley Hollingsworth at the FCC also says you are wrong. He wrote

an

article about it.

Mark


Bob Bailey wrote:

Putting the D700 into "Crossband" mode now makes the transciever
an "auxillary station" and Part 97 rules apply regarding this.

The

D700 cannot meet this compliance issue out of the box. It must

have

circuit modifications to meet the identification requirement per

Part

97 so why worry so much about something you cannot legally use

in the

U.S. in it's out of the box state?

Bob KAØMR



Community email addresses:
Post message: TMD700A@...
Subscribe: TMD700A-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: TMD700A-unsubscribe@...
List owner: TMD700A-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:
http://www.onelist.com/community/TMD700A


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12clcurli/M=268585.4464812.5643763.1261774/D
=egroupweb/S=1705034690:HM/EXP=1076084999/A=1950448/R=0/*http://ashni
n.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?YH=4464812&yhad=1950448>

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-------

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TMD700A/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TMD700A-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:TMD700A-unsubscribe@...?

subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For programming, you can download free software for many Kenwood
radios (including the D700) directly from Kenwood's website.



Makes programming (and reprogramming) a breeze. It also really
helps out with the significant learning curve that Kenwood radios
have.



Sam

In a message dated 2/5/04 8:19:40 PM Central Standard Time,
mdrdg@... writes:
<Snip>

...This is okay as lomg as two comditions are met: (1) The user
links to crossband rig on the UHF side. This serves as his control
link, so this is an auxillary station and must be above 222.15 MHz.
(2) The unattended mobile rig is capable of indentifying on it's UHF
output.Since this is a remote base, the usre's ID over the UHF link
to the dual band radio serves also to ID the VHF side, in the other
direction, HOWEVER, THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE USER TO IDENTIFY THE UHF
OUTPUT OF THE REMOTE BASE, so some form of AUTOMATIC ID MUST be
employed. Few radio manufacturers include this ID capability.

<Snip>

<Bob KAØMR

Exactly. How can this problem be addressed? Communications Specialist's
ID-8? It can be set to "go" several different ways, including straight time,
but: How to make it "fire" only to the VHF- to-UHF side?

Bob (or anyone else who has done it) what is feasible?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not true. Since you have to key your radio to bring up the x-band you
are still controlling it. When you ID for yourself, you also ID the
x-band. This comes up all the time and is just wrong. I have it from
the ARRL Section Manager that you are incorrect.

Riley Hollingsworth at the FCC also says you are wrong. He wrote an
article about it.

Mark


Bob Bailey wrote:

Putting the D700 into "Crossband" mode now makes the transciever
an "auxillary station" and Part 97 rules apply regarding this. The
D700 cannot meet this compliance issue out of the box. It must have
circuit modifications to meet the identification requirement per Part
97 so why worry so much about something you cannot legally use in the
U.S. in it's out of the box state?

Bob KAØMR



Community email addresses:
Post message: TMD700A@...
Subscribe: TMD700A-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: TMD700A-unsubscribe@...
List owner: TMD700A-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:
http://www.onelist.com/community/TMD700A


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12clcurli/M=268585.4464812.5643763.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705034690:HM/EXP=1076084999/A=1950448/R=0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?YH=4464812&yhad=1950448>



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TMD700A/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TMD700A-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:TMD700A-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Controlling an auxillary station must be done on frequencies of 221 MHZ and above.
The auxillary station must ID on both transmitting frequencies it operates on. The D700 cannot ID itself on both trasnmitting channel without intrusive circuit modification. As you know in crossband mode the handheld is the controlling radio and it is controlling the auxillary station so every transmitter in the path must be capable of identification.

Riley is much to busy to really make this an issue at hand with other more serious violations. But I think it is important philosophy that hams generally should strive for pristeen operating habits if we expect to maintain our "privilige" to investigate radio phenomena unimpeded as we have been able to do since the dawn of radio.

Bob Bailey KAØMR
Senior Maintenance Technician
Radio Services
The Boeing Company
ARRL Official Observer Program Midwest Division

The HT is controlling another device, an auxillary staion (D700), the HT ID's when the operator says his callsign. When does the auxillary station ID itself on the control channel? No out of the box multiband VHF-UHF radio that I know of with the exception that the FT-8900 may be able to can accomplish this out of the box without circuit modification. Part 97 is crystal clear in this regard and the FCC countless times have been asked to modify this rule and have consistantly refused to change it. And rightly so because the 2m spectrum for all practical has no room to accomodate this type of operation that is why auxillary operation must be on frequencies off 221 MHz and above. There is no mystery in this interpretation of Part 97 you just have to read and digest what you are reading and please understand I am not saying you are unable to undrstand it but I myself had to read and re-read it numerous times to fully understand it when I mistakenly put an auxillary station on 2m some years back.

Bob KAØMR

This has been debated many times in the past, including in this forum. It
does not seem to me that there is a clear answer regarding cross banding and
IDing. Has the FCC ever handed down any type of ruling regarding this since
it is a hotly debated topic?

Also, I'm thinking this is more of an issue when cross banding with another
repeater. If I use my D700 as a cross band repeater with myself on an HT and
another person on a HT, no other repeaters involved, is this a problem? Both
of us can ID saying our call via the K8RBT repeater. Isn't this within the
rules?

I would also think someone using lock band with another repeater would be
ok. The transmissions from the primary repeater would not be retransmitted
via the D700. The person transmitting to the repeater via the D700 would
need to ID as in my above example.

Not trying to beat a dead pony but am interested in additional comments.

73

Bob, K8RBT

Bob Bailey wrote:

Putting the D700 into "Crossband" mode now makes the transciever an "auxillary station" and Part 97 rules apply regarding this. The D700 cannot meet this compliance issue out of the box. It must have circuit modifications to meet the identification requirement per Part 97 so why worry so much about something you cannot legally use in the U.S. in it's out of the box state?

Bob, please explain further. I just re-read Subpart C, 97.201 (Auxiliary Station) and Subpart B, 97.119 (Station Identification), and I cannot see your reasoning. Plus, it would seem that Riley would have a bunch of us in jail as we have been operating "Crossband" for 10-12 years.

bill

--
W. H. (Bill) Reynolds, K8DNE
A.R.R.L. Liaison F.C.C. Examiner
8821 Willowbrook Dr.
Rowlett, TX 75088-4614
Phone: 972-475-3854
E-Mail = <wh.reynolds@...>
Rowlett, TX RACES Radio Officer, Unit 801R

Putting the D700 into "Crossband" mode now makes the transciever
an "auxillary station" and Part 97 rules apply regarding this. The
D700 cannot meet this compliance issue out of the box. It must have
circuit modifications to meet the identification requirement per Part
97 so why worry so much about something you cannot legally use in the
U.S. in it's out of the box state?

Bob KAØMR

David wrote:

Hi Bill, K8DNE, My new radio is coming today. Is this problem still an issue with the new radios? I want to be able to use the whole radio without any problems. I ordered a service manual with it too. I will scan the parts index to try to find a Kenwood parts match.

Good question, David. All that I know for certain is that one of my RACES appointees purchased a new D-700 about 6 months ago and the trouble was still apparent. After you get the initial radio programming accomplished, you can run a check using your HT a local repeater.

Funny note: Almost everybody I know who has obtained a D-700 has started programming their radio and at a later date (usually about three weeks) has had to do a total reset due to incorrect programming. This radio has its own "learning curve"......for the owner. You will really like the radio, once it masters you. <many grins>

73.....bill
--
W. H. (Bill) Reynolds, K8DNE
A.R.R.L. Liaison F.C.C. Examiner
8821 Willowbrook Dr.
Rowlett, TX 75088-4614
Phone: 972-475-3854
E-Mail = <wh.reynolds@...>
Rowlett, TX RACES Radio Officer, Unit 801R

Hi Bill, K8DNE, My new radio is coming today. Is this problem still
an issue with the new radios? I want to be able to use the whole
radio without any problems. I ordered a service manual with it too. I
will scan the parts index to try to find a Kenwood parts match.

Thanks
KE4MIZ
David




--- In TMD700A@..., K8DNE <wh.reynolds@v...> wrote:

Hi David.

David wrote:

K8DNE, You mentioned the muffled audio in Cross band repeat, Are
those Kenwood replacement parts? If so what are the part numbers ?

No. The parts were out of our Surface Mount parts box. We did not

have

the 003 size parts so we used the 006 size parts. They will solder

to

the same size pads if you know about SMT soldering. The values of

each

pare are your ole' "off-the-shelf" values. I suppose that Kenwood

would

not have a part number for this modification as they will not even

admit

that the x-band audio is trash out of the box. The radio has so

many

other valuable bells and whistles that the x-band audio is an easy

thing

to "write-off". However, I am not one to "live" with something

that I

can fix. Plus, I very rarely talk on 2 meters unless I am actually

in

the vehicle or the shack. I am usually transmitting through a

remote

base, from a 70cm HT, all the time.

NOTE: If you are not familier with SMT (Surface Mount Technology),

find

somebody who is. You can ruin the solder pads if you do not know

what

you are doing or if you are not familiar with SMT

soldering/desoldering.

whr
--
W. H. (Bill) Reynolds, K8DNE
A.R.R.L. Liaison F.C.C. Examiner
8821 Willowbrook Dr.
Rowlett, TX 75088-4614
Phone: 972-475-3854
E-Mail = <wh.reynolds@v...>
Rowlett, TX RACES Radio Officer, Unit 801R

Hi David.

David wrote:

K8DNE, You mentioned the muffled audio in Cross band repeat, Are those Kenwood replacement parts? If so what are the part numbers ?

No. The parts were out of our Surface Mount parts box. We did not have the 003 size parts so we used the 006 size parts. They will solder to the same size pads if you know about SMT soldering. The values of each pare are your ole' "off-the-shelf" values. I suppose that Kenwood would not have a part number for this modification as they will not even admit that the x-band audio is trash out of the box. The radio has so many other valuable bells and whistles that the x-band audio is an easy thing to "write-off". However, I am not one to "live" with something that I can fix. Plus, I very rarely talk on 2 meters unless I am actually in the vehicle or the shack. I am usually transmitting through a remote base, from a 70cm HT, all the time.

NOTE: If you are not familier with SMT (Surface Mount Technology), find somebody who is. You can ruin the solder pads if you do not know what you are doing or if you are not familiar with SMT soldering/desoldering.

whr
--
W. H. (Bill) Reynolds, K8DNE
A.R.R.L. Liaison F.C.C. Examiner
8821 Willowbrook Dr.
Rowlett, TX 75088-4614
Phone: 972-475-3854
E-Mail = <wh.reynolds@...>
Rowlett, TX RACES Radio Officer, Unit 801R

K8DNE, You mentioned the muffled audio in Cross band repeat, Are
those Kenwood replacement parts? If so what are the part numbers ?


KE4MIZ
David


--- In TMD700A@..., K8DNE <wh.reynolds@v...> wrote:

Just another note.....I use two D-700s for emergency communications

on

every evolution that my RACES group is dispatched. We, by design,
establish an "on site" remote base through the D-700 in my

vehicle. We

also have remote bases at various fire stations. Using this
configuration, we are always "full quieting" on our simplex RACES
frequency and any repeater that we might be using from the

established

command vehicle. The remote bases' inputs use different PL tones

on the

inputs, so we never have to change frequencies when "moving" from

the

command vehicle remote base to a close-by fire house remote base.

In reference to "cross-band" and "locked-band", either one will

work

fine. The "locked-band" is good when your HT can reliabily hear

the

repeater which you are using. The "cross-band" is good when you

need a

little better receiver. The only limitation is the vehicle

battery, if

you are not using a seperate battery in the vehicle. I,

personally,

have used my vehicle for 10-12 hours at a time,,,,going back every

hour,

or so, and running the engine for a few minutes to recharge the

battery

if we transmit for long periods.

Keep in mind that the D-700 has an inherent "muffled audio" problem

from

the factory in either cross-band operation. (Which Kenwood will

not

admit or respond to.) All that is needed is to change C-821 to

0.022uf

and also change R-828 to 22K. The problem disappears.

Probably more than you wanted.......73


sal90212 wrote:

did any one use cross-band repeat in the radio For emergency

work,

or to extend the range of a hand-held unit if yes how isit?

--
W. H. (Bill) Reynolds, K8DNE
A.R.R.L. Liaison F.C.C. Examiner
8821 Willowbrook Dr.
Rowlett, TX 75088-4614
Phone: 972-475-3854
E-Mail = <breynolds@c...>
Rowlett, TX RACES Radio Officer, Unit 801R

Just another note.....I use two D-700s for emergency communications on every evolution that my RACES group is dispatched. We, by design, establish an "on site" remote base through the D-700 in my vehicle. We also have remote bases at various fire stations. Using this configuration, we are always "full quieting" on our simplex RACES frequency and any repeater that we might be using from the established command vehicle. The remote bases' inputs use different PL tones on the inputs, so we never have to change frequencies when "moving" from the command vehicle remote base to a close-by fire house remote base.

In reference to "cross-band" and "locked-band", either one will work fine. The "locked-band" is good when your HT can reliabily hear the repeater which you are using. The "cross-band" is good when you need a little better receiver. The only limitation is the vehicle battery, if you are not using a seperate battery in the vehicle. I, personally, have used my vehicle for 10-12 hours at a time,,,,going back every hour, or so, and running the engine for a few minutes to recharge the battery if we transmit for long periods.

Keep in mind that the D-700 has an inherent "muffled audio" problem from the factory in either cross-band operation. (Which Kenwood will not admit or respond to.) All that is needed is to change C-821 to 0.022uf and also change R-828 to 22K. The problem disappears.

Probably more than you wanted.......73


sal90212 wrote:

--
W. H. (Bill) Reynolds, K8DNE
A.R.R.L. Liaison F.C.C. Examiner
8821 Willowbrook Dr.
Rowlett, TX 75088-4614
Phone: 972-475-3854
E-Mail = <breynolds@...>
Rowlett, TX RACES Radio Officer, Unit 801R