Re: [SPAM] ALTERNATOR WHINE?
w0web <w0web@...>
sounds like you have a bad spark plug wire, or bad plug.
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I would start at the plugs and change them and make sure to use a Resisted plug ( part number will have an R in it) if no change then look at the spark plug wires and make sure they are flexible and not HARD to bend, also make sure they are seated all the way on the plug & or cap (coil pack)
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From: Nigel P. Service,VE1NPS To: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 13:21 Subject: [SPAM][TMD700A] ALTERNATOR WHINE? Ron, just to review my situation and no problem to do it. I have just purchased a 2007 Pontiac Wave aka Chev Aveo (sedan) aka Daiwoo something. I purchase the Kenwood extension kit. The main section of the radio is attached to the underside of the rear parcel shelf. I did not use the extension wire in the kit but used #10 of the same thing instead (red and black are molded together) The power ends are attached directly to the battery terminals (using solder type connectors) and the other ends of the #10 are attached to the factory wires coming off the Kenwood using Anderson connectors. The whine is generally at the lower rpms and rises and lowers according to engine speed. Maybe because it's a small car and due to road noise, etc. but I don't hear it at highway speed. No one has complained on broadcast but I hear it coming out of my speaker. The main feed does not seemingly go by any noise creating situations. GM is not sympathetic because it is an aftermarket install and not their AM-FM radio. I have had whine problems before and were always traceable to the alternator because they were cars with very high mileage. But this is new car with only 5000 miles. Maybe it's a Korean problem???? 73 VE1NPS Nigel PS......the filters in the extension kit were installed as per Kenwood's instructions.
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Re: ALTERNATOR WHINE?
Mister Bad Wrench
My interference isn't alternator whine but possibly noise coming off
the car's engine computer or fuel pump. I have been advised that there is a solution but haven't applied it. So for right now what local repeaters that require tone i have placed tone squelch instead of just pl tone. The vehicle is a Kia 2004 Optima V6 LX.
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ALTERNATOR WHINE?
Nigel P. Service,VE1NPS <npservice@...>
Ron, just to review my situation and no problem to do it. I have just purchased a 2007 Pontiac Wave aka Chev Aveo (sedan) aka Daiwoo something. I purchase the Kenwood extension kit. The main section of the radio is attached to the underside of the rear parcel shelf. I did not use the extension wire in the kit but used #10 of the same thing instead (red and black are molded together) The power ends are attached directly to the battery terminals (using solder type connectors) and the other ends of the #10 are attached to the factory wires coming off the Kenwood using Anderson connectors.
The whine is generally at the lower rpms and rises and lowers according to engine speed. Maybe because it's a small car and due to road noise, etc. but I don't hear it at highway speed. No one has complained on broadcast but I hear it coming out of my speaker. The main feed does not seemingly go by any noise creating situations. GM is not sympathetic because it is an aftermarket install and not their AM-FM radio. I have had whine problems before and were always traceable to the alternator because they were cars with very high mileage. But this is new car with only 5000 miles. Maybe it's a Korean problem???? 73 VE1NPS Nigel PS......the filters in the extension kit were installed as per Kenwood's instructions.
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ALTERNATOR WHINE?
I have been reading the mail on Alternator Whine. As I have never had
this problem I would like a few questions answered. What vehicles are having this problem? As I have had my D700A in a 1996 Mercury, a 2003 Chevy S-10, a 2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport, and now in my 2004 Chevy Tahoe with no issues. Are you using the cigarete lighter outlet? And why? Are you running you DC power cables close to the Alternator? And why? Can we make a list of vehicles to watch so anyone buying that vehicle should expect and immediately install filtering? I will say this, that just about every Yaesu radio I have encountered has this issue of whine, but not any D700A. So what are some of us doing wrong? By the way, and I am sure EE's will agree, one of the best and cheapest filtering cures is direct off the battery. Finding a way for cables thru the firewall can be fun (not), but there are already rubber plugs in the firewall to use, no drilling required. Check out your Steering Column Boot, your Brake Cable boot, and the any one of several DC entry Boots for easy access. I hope these suggestions help fix your issues. I for one do not like adding filters to the Alternator, for if it should short out, you have a very expensive item to fix, or maybe even replace a burned out car. 73 de Ron K1VSC EEBS, 40 years of installing Mobile Radio euipment
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Filters
Nigel P. Service,VE1NPS <npservice@...>
I am following this email trail very closely. Am going to try and get the capacitor today from what was Radio Shack now called Cicuit City. Unfortunately their stock is not as RS used to sell.
73, VE1NPS Nigel
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Re: Filters...for alternator whine, with Construction Detail
sailingto <sailingto@...>
--- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <noskosteve@...> wrote:
NEWS FLASH RE QST filter:Steve, you are one GOOD person - you made an assumption based on good knowledge, then YOU chased more info, found you "might not" be correct, and make a post so everyone can see what you found. Cheers for you - and just wish everyone followed your example. 73 de Ken H>
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Re: Filters...for alternator whine, with Construction Detail
noskosteve
Interestig suggestion, MC. I'll have to look at mine.
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NEWS FLASH RE QST filter: I pinged the author, Jim, KB1MVX, and he has done the Cap only test and it did NOT fix his Whine. So it appears that his inductor is more than I originally thought from looking at it - doubt which was triggered by the faulty response plot. Here's the full detail so you don't need to track down that QST: 20 feet of #12 hookup wire (Radio Shack) (I think this is some small standard roll) A 1/2 inch Quick Link from Lowes ( hardweare store in the U.S.) 4,700 uF. 35 V electrolytic Cap. Something to hold it in. 6x3x2 (inch) Radio Shack project box. I recommend usinga Anderson Power Poles in the common configuration. If you don't use them and have a few radios and can afford them, you won't regret using them. Wind all the wire (leave some for connections) mostly on the "back" of the QuickLink. Use neat winding with each turn next to rhe previous and make layers the same way. You can wind it around the bends at the ends, just allow the closing "nut" to be closed. Wire it to make an L/C filter with the L on the auto (input) side and the cap on the radio side. Make sure it is mechanically stable in whatever you hold it in. Make the Cap to radio distance as short as possible. View this in Courier Font. Inductor Battery + O----UMUMUMUM---o------------> + | _+ Cap Radio _ | Battery - ----------------o------------> - 73, Steve, K9DCI
--- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, Michael Champion <mchampion425@...> wrote:
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Re: Filters...for alternator whine, perhaps not.
Michael Champion <mchampion425@...>
Speaking of wasting time. Strap that alternator to
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ground. Being bolted to the engine isn't enough. There are plenty of high current automotive applications that have enthusiast groups doing a 3 point ground to improve noise limitation and power generation. No filter needed. The battery in the car is a HUGE capacitor and should be plenty. -MC
-----Original Message-----
From: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TMD700A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:00 PM To: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com Subject: [TMD700A] Re: Filters...for alternator whine, perhaps not. Fellas, Hold on gang. The filter shown by Jim, KB1MVX is not what it is presented to be. I corresponded with Jim, but have not heard if he did the test I suggested. It *did* cure his problem, however... The inductor as described would not contribute any significant amount to the effectiveness as an alternator whine filter. The amount of inductance (a few micro Henrys) has very little reactance at audio frequencies. Most likely, his alternator whine was fixed by the capacitor alone. I asked him to do some tests, but he hasn't responded. The capacitor he used was 4,700 uF. You could try just that. Make sure it is rated for at least 35 volts. Connect it across the power lines as close to the radio as possible. This will allow the resistance of both wires of the power cabling to be the impedance the capacitor is working with to provide attenuation. IF that doesn't do it, I suggest getting a better inductor. Radio Shack or an auto-sound store may have whine filters already made. FIY Because I was suspicious of the amount of attenuation shown with that inductor size, I did come calculating. The curve of attenuation shown is not that of an L/C filter and not of the charactistics of what he thought he built. The curve is that of only an R/C filter - The C of that capacitor and the R of the generator used, which was 50 ohms. The curve shows considerably more attenuation than was actually achieved in practice. The measurement method (a 50 ohm o-scope, not 1M) also gave excessive loading, further corrupting the data so it showed the curve of a 4,500 uF cap and 42 ohm resistor - a corner freq of 0.8 Hz and only 6 dB/octave instead of 12 dB/octave for an L/C filter. The inductor shown should be a waste of time. IF possible, connect your power cable birectly to the battery, not an inside power recepticle or cig. lighter. 73, Steve, K9DCI P.S. The inductor was 20 feet of 12 gauge hookup wire wound primarily on one side of a Quick-Link (looks a little like a rock climbing carabiner, but has a captive "nut" which turns to close the loop) --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Natalia" <sparcnz@...> wrote: not get that publication down here, and I too have a problem with alternator whine which I have not been able to get rid of. A PDF would be great. the June 2007edition of QST, a very simple "you buid it" filter system for alternator whine. Looks like that may just be the answer. What I am also going to check on, and I should have done this first, is to see if GM has a commercial filter system. They do after all provide a file on VHF radio installation.
Community email addresses: Post message: TMD700A@onelist.com Subscribe: TMD700A-subscribe@onelist.com Unsubscribe: TMD700A-unsubscribe@onelist.com List owner: TMD700A-owner@onelist.com Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.onelist.com/community/TMD700A Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
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Re: D700A on APRS
noskosteve
Aaron,
This is a good point, thought it isn't Ken's problem. He says he *is* beaconing becaue he does get the "MINE-CooCoos" from some digis, but that he is not getting through to findu and, therefore, not to an IGate. It is, however, good advece to keep in mind: If you bump your squelsh control by accident, and the display says BUSY. beaconing stops because it appears the channel is occupied. Also, be careful to not have it set for S-Meter squelch. That is less effective since there can be areas with junk coming from local spurces which can cause S-Meter indication, but not true squelch. So, if you're NOT beaconing at all, check the display and squelch control. 73, Steve, K9DCI --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Anderson <kc5ygs@...> wrote: turn on the CTCSS do you turn the squelch all the way down? The squelch must close, regardless of the tone-squelch state, before the radio will TX packets. If this isn't your problem it may help others reading this.
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Re: D700A on APRS
noskosteve
Jim,
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This is not a flame, just advice based on fact. First, Ken has been posting on the aprs reflector and getting other advice. The guys there are looking at where he is in relatioon to the IGates. It appears that there are digi problems in his area because his PL is causing problems that it should not. In many other areas of the country, paths such as you recommend for your area are a poor choice. They only result is network flooding and QRM hampering normal use. The new WIDEn-N was developed to remove that problem which the old RELAY caused, but only if everyone cooperated. For that reason, some digis will ignore the 3 and higher type WIDEs and truncate those paths to the effect of WIDE2-1. I understand that your area needs what you say to get to an Igate, though that is not the primary purpose of APRS. It may very well be, in your area, that it is not possible to get enough IGates that the WIDE digis can reach. From your description, it makes sense, but then, if so many hams ae putting up WIDE digis, perhaps more should consider just making more of them iGages. If the area is just limited in IGates, the system is flooded with packets with such pathes, but perhaps there are few users as well. If, without changing to the recommended paths, mobiles in your area travel to other parts of the country, they'll cause congestion for the other users. If they stay at home, no problem. Yes, it is nice to track on findu and I do it, but if the digis in Ken's area are more dense, the WIDE7-7 will Katrina-ize the area and I'm sure he doesn't need that given his other symptons. 73, Steve, K9DCI
--- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, Jim Moody <nl7c@...> wrote:
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Re: Filters...for alternator whine, perhaps not.
noskosteve
Fellas,
Hold on gang. The filter shown by Jim, KB1MVX is not what it is presented to be. I corresponded with Jim, but have not heard if he did the test I suggested. It *did* cure his problem, however... The inductor as described would not contribute any significant amount to the effectiveness as an alternator whine filter. The amount of inductance (a few micro Henrys) has very little reactance at audio frequencies. Most likely, his alternator whine was fixed by the capacitor alone. I asked him to do some tests, but he hasn't responded. The capacitor he used was 4,700 uF. You could try just that. Make sure it is rated for at least 35 volts. Connect it across the power lines as close to the radio as possible. This will allow the resistance of both wires of the power cabling to be the impedance the capacitor is working with to provide attenuation. IF that doesn't do it, I suggest getting a better inductor. Radio Shack or an auto-sound store may have whine filters already made. FIY Because I was suspicious of the amount of attenuation shown with that inductor size, I did come calculating. The curve of attenuation shown is not that of an L/C filter and not of the charactistics of what he thought he built. The curve is that of only an R/C filter - The C of that capacitor and the R of the generator used, which was 50 ohms. The curve shows considerably more attenuation than was actually achieved in practice. The measurement method (a 50 ohm o-scope, not 1M) also gave excessive loading, further corrupting the data so it showed the curve of a 4,500 uF cap and 42 ohm resistor - a corner freq of 0.8 Hz and only 6 dB/octave instead of 12 dB/octave for an L/C filter. The inductor shown should be a waste of time. IF possible, connect your power cable birectly to the battery, not an inside power recepticle or cig. lighter. 73, Steve, K9DCI P.S. The inductor was 20 feet of 12 gauge hookup wire wound primarily on one side of a Quick-Link (looks a little like a rock climbing carabiner, but has a captive "nut" which turns to close the loop) --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Natalia" <sparcnz@...> wrote: publication down here, and I too have a problem with alternator whine which I have not been able to get rid of. A PDF would be great. 2007edition of QST, a very simple "you buid it" filter system for alternator whine. Looks like that may just be the answer. What I am also going to check on, and I should have done this first, is to see if GM has a commercial filter system. They do after all provide a file on VHF radio installation.
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Re: D700A on APRS
bailey macandrew
Ken, it sounds like you may simply have a squelch problem. When you turn on the CTCSS do you turn the squelch all the way down? The squelch must close, regardless of the tone-squelch state, before the radio will TX packets.
If this isn't your problem it may help others reading this. AA, SF, Ca sailingto <sailingto@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, Jim Moody <nl7c@...> wrote: > > I have lived on the Gulf Coast in that area and it is flat! I have to > assume that the digi's do not have a lot of height in that area and > hence do not cover very large areas. The Wide2-2 is not sufficient > siting! Many of the mobiles here run Wide6-6 and Wide7-7 when away > from the cities so they can be tracked. I watched one yesterday with a > Wide7-1 when it made the IGATE. > For you that want to flame, FIRE AWAY, I got a BIG BYTE BUCKET. You > check with the APRS ops in this area and they all say the same thing! > > 73, JIM > NL7C > CDS digi > Thanks for the info Jim. In playing with the radio more today, I have about decided the problem is not in the TNC myself. I have been runing the "voice alert" (set PL100 for CTCSS - CT on display). I just happened to turn it off today and bingo, I started getting digi'd a LOTs. my interval is set at 30 seconds for today's testing (normally set at 1 minute) and I would get digi'd at least 1 or 2 times each minute. I say "digi'd" because "my pos" would appear on the display and I'd hear beeps, usually 2 or 3 beeps - that tells me I have been repeated by 2 or 3 digi's that are close enough for me to hear - doesn't it? I turned the CT back on and suddenly the number of digi's dropped a LOT. After 10 minutes of riding, I turned CTCSS off again and the number of digi's picked back up agian. Of course it could be different terrian, but this is over the same route I ride. I "think" it means something but won't know for sure until trying a few more times on different days on the same stretch of road. Your statement about not having the WIDEn-N set high enough makes sense because even with me getting digi'd 3 times (hearing 3 beeps) I still would not make it to an Igate that often. Today's ride I'd get digi'd at least 20 times on the ride, but come home and check findu.com and there would only be 4 or 5 "tracks" and some of those would be several miles apart. No where near as often as I was digi'd on the ride. I will be out of town all next week, but will continue testing when I return. Thanks to all for the input. 73 de Ken H> K9FV (K9FV-1 and K9FV-2 for testing) --------------------------------- Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
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Re: D700A on APRS
WØBJ
--- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "hardlyevrhom" <hardlyevr@...> wrote:
Not correct. All digis should respond to WIDE1-1. The recommended path for mobiles in the US is WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1. By using a path with only WIDE2-2, you will be ignored by fill-in digis. Fill-in digis will _only_ respond to WIDE1-1. One of the limitations of the D700 is it's memory capacity,I believe that you are referring to the tnc buffer issue. This only causes problems when the D700 is being used in KISS mode by external software. When the D700 is being used in internal APRS mode, this is not a problem. Also, we are talking about packets originated by the D700, so I don't see the relevance of your comment in this case. Jim N0PTN
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Re: D700A on APRS
sailingto <sailingto@...>
--- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, Jim Moody <nl7c@...> wrote:
siting! Many of the mobiles here run Wide6-6 and Wide7-7 when away from the cities so they can be tracked. I watched one yesterday witha Wide7-1 when it made the IGATE.Thanks for the info Jim. In playing with the radio more today, I have about decided the problem is not in the TNC myself. I have been runing the "voice alert" (set PL100 for CTCSS - CT on display). I just happened to turn it off today and bingo, I started getting digi'd a LOTs. my interval is set at 30 seconds for today's testing (normally set at 1 minute) and I would get digi'd at least 1 or 2 times each minute. I say "digi'd" because "my pos" would appear on the display and I'd hear beeps, usually 2 or 3 beeps - that tells me I have been repeated by 2 or 3 digi's that are close enough for me to hear - doesn't it? I turned the CT back on and suddenly the number of digi's dropped a LOT. After 10 minutes of riding, I turned CTCSS off again and the number of digi's picked back up agian. Of course it could be different terrian, but this is over the same route I ride. I "think" it means something but won't know for sure until trying a few more times on different days on the same stretch of road. Your statement about not having the WIDEn-N set high enough makes sense because even with me getting digi'd 3 times (hearing 3 beeps) I still would not make it to an Igate that often. Today's ride I'd get digi'd at least 20 times on the ride, but come home and check findu.com and there would only be 4 or 5 "tracks" and some of those would be several miles apart. No where near as often as I was digi'd on the ride. I will be out of town all next week, but will continue testing when I return. Thanks to all for the input. 73 de Ken H> K9FV (K9FV-1 and K9FV-2 for testing)
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Re: D700A on APRS
hardlyevrhom
I also think you should try setting your path to Wide2-2. I do not
think that all digis will respond to the Wide1-1, and if that is the case then your beacon will only be digi'd one time with the 2-1 portion of your path. That might not be sufficient to reach an igate. The fact that when you are in some areas and are making it to an igate most likely means that there is NOT something wrong with the radio. One of the limitations of the D700 is it's memory capacity, which can be filled and jammed by a large packet from another type of TNC or system. If this happens the best way to reset is to turn off and on the BCON. You might also want to check your ability to get in the system with a track on http://aprsworld.net/ Kurt KC8RWD-14 --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingto@...> wrote: have aforThank you for the input John, I was using WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 today.problem with this D700A.What do you have it set to? Should be WIDE2-2 the past week I've been using WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 and I do get to anleast 95% of the time, ONLY the KI4ELU-7 digi will digi me first. Onceit digi's me, I can make it ok.any of them.test. Then I got into N4TKT-2 which 351 miles away. I expect a localdigi helped me there, but just didn't show. Could that have been theand talk if you will email me a phone number, OR I will email you aphone number to talk this thing thru.
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Re: D700A on APRS
Jim NL7C
I have lived on the Gulf Coast in that area and it is flat! I have to
assume that the digi's do not have a lot of height in that area and hence do not cover very large areas. The Wide2-2 is not sufficient to carry your packets to an IGATE in those areas. I live in the Texas Panhandle now and our Digi's are approximately 50-80 miles apart. But that is not the whole story. To get from Childress, where I live, my packets are digi'd here from CDS to MIA (Miami, TX) 94 miles north of here, then west 83 miles to DUMAS, and then south into Amarillo where the IGATE resides (223 miles). Amarillo is only 105 miles from here, but this the shortest path to it. WIDE3-3 at a minimum when conditions are good, WIDE4-4 is best because the MIA DUMAS can be a marginal path. WIDE4-4 is also required to get to the IGATE near Wichita Falls (110 miles direct form here) but the digi route is 337 miles! There are some nearer Digi's but cannot always access them due to their siting! Many of the mobiles here run Wide6-6 and Wide7-7 when away from the cities so they can be tracked. I watched one yesterday with a Wide7-1 when it made the IGATE. My mobile is on Wide4-4 except when I am in Amarillo or Wichita Falls then it is Wide2-2. Don't blame the equipment yet, put it on wide4-4 and see what happens. You may still find blind areas, we stilll have lots at Wide7-7. Depending on where you live you may have to change your UNPROTO as you move around. For you that want to flame, FIRE AWAY, I got a BIG BYTE BUCKET. You check with the APRS ops in this area and they all say the same thing! 73, JIM NL7C CDS digi
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Re: D700A on APRS
sailingto <sailingto@...>
--- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "w7plz" <w7plz@...> wrote:
see the same out thing out here in AZ digi heavenHello Peter, just what do you mean by *problem just might be the digi setup.... * - I'm new at this APRS stuff and need all the help I can get. 73 de Ken H> K9FV-1
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Re: D700A on APRS
w7plz <w7plz@...>
Ever think that the the problem just might be the digi setup.... I see
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the same out thing out here in AZ digi heaven Peter W7PLZ
-----Original Message-----
From: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TMD700A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John K9IJ Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:35 PM To: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TMD700A] D700A on APRS At 06:19 PM 9/15/2007, you wrote: Well, after some more testing today it really seems like I do have ahe.fi/?call=K9FV-1&mt=m&z=11&timerange=43200 Looking at findu, it looks like you might have an unproto path problem. What do you have it set to? Should be WIDE2-2 John - K9IJ - John Rice K9IJ k9ij@vx5.com <mailto:k9ij%40vx5.com> Webmaster, Network Admin, Janitor http://www.k9ij. <http://www.k9ij.com> com http://www.suhfars. <http://www.suhfars.org> org http://www.k9ij. <http://www.k9ij.com:8080> com:8080 APRS Webserver
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Re: D700A on APRS
sailingto <sailingto@...>
--- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, John K9IJ <k9ij@...> wrote:
a Thank you for the input John, I was using WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 today. forproblem with this D700A.What do you have it set to? Should be WIDE2-2 the past week I've been using WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 and I do get to an IGate somewhat better, but still have the same problem - for at least 95% of the time, ONLY the KI4ELU-7 digi will digi me first. Once it digi's me, I can make it ok. If you looked at my track, you can see as I went on east on I-10 to Pensacola, Fla I should have been in easy range of KB4HAH-7 and a couple of other digi that are in the area... and i did not get to any of them. I could see the antenna of the W4IAX digi and still could not get into that digi. I set my path to W4IAX-7,WIDE2-2 today for a test. Then I got into N4TKT-2 which 351 miles away. I expect a local digi helped me there, but just didn't show. Could that have been the W4IAX-7 digi and didn't put the call sign in? I'll keep this short - I'm just VERY concerned my D700A has a bad TNC board, and not sure how to prove it - it's only a month old. I'm open to any and all suggestions. I will be happy to call you and talk if you will email me a phone number, OR I will email you a phone number to talk this thing thru. 73 de Ken H> K9FV-1
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Re: D700A on APRS
John K9IJ <k9ij@...>
At 06:19 PM 9/15/2007, you wrote:
Well, after some more testing today it really seems like I do have aLooking at findu, it looks like you might have an unproto path problem. What do you have it set to? Should be WIDE2-2 John - K9IJ - John Rice K9IJ k9ij@vx5.com Webmaster, Network Admin, Janitor http://www.k9ij.com http://www.suhfars.org http://www.k9ij.com:8080 APRS Webserver
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