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Bombardier 185 vs 188

John Lovda
 

On my last trip I caught a Traxx 188 sitting at Spiez. It appeared to be owned by Bombardier, not a customer. What are the differences between these two models? More HP? Is the 185 Swiss-Italian and the 188 Swiss-German?
Thanks,
John

Ewan Tait
 

On 24 Jun 2019, at 00:56, John Lovda via Groups.Io <
jlovda=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

On my last trip I caught a Traxx 188 sitting at Spiez. It appeared to be
owned by Bombardier, not a customer. What are the differences between these
two models? More HP? Is the 185 Swiss-Italian and the 188 Swiss-German?



Br 185s are AC only locomotives, as are Br 187s. Br 186s and Br 188s are AC
and DC.

The DB Br 185.1s in Switzerland (south of Basel SBB RB) are setup for
Germany, Switzerland and Austria.

Railcolor has loads of information
https://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1404957&lang=1

--
http://ewan.me.uk

csipromo
 

More specifically, the 185 was an AC locomotive derived from the earlier 145/146. This also includes the SBB 482 and BLS 485.
Bombardier developed the Re 484 (Multisystem) from the 185 and from the 484, they developed European multisystem loks under the class 186.
Bombardier introduced the latest version of the 185 AC under the model 187. The multisystem version of the 187 is the new class 188, which is currently being tested in Switzerland, primarily on the BLS network.

These new generation locomotives (186, 188) can be used on multiple networks (subject to homologation) and technically could be used to pull a train from start to finish, eliminating traction change at borders or where networks use different systems.

Regards

Mike C

Ewan Tait
 

On 24 Jun 2019, at 17:29, csipromo via Groups.Io <csipromo=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

More specifically, the 185 was an AC locomotive derived from the earlier 145/146. This also includes the SBB 482 and BLS 485.
Bombardier developed the Re 484 (Multisystem) from the 185 and from the 484, they developed European multisystem loks under the class 186.
Bombardier introduced the latest version of the 185 AC under the model 187. The multisystem version of the 187 is the new class 188, which is currently being tested in Switzerland, primarily on the BLS network.

These new generation locomotives (186, 188) can be used on multiple networks (subject to homologation) and technically could be used to pull a train from start to finish, eliminating traction change at borders or where networks use different systems.

The AC locos can operate across borders in much the same was the multi-system locos. The difference is that the MS locos can operate under both AC and DC OHLE systems, where as the AC locos are AC only. There are also DC only TRAXX locos, diesel TRAXX locos and both AC and DC (and no doubt in the future, MS) TRAXX locos with a last mile Diesel engine to enable them to shunt away from the wires.

Regards,
Ewan

--
http://ewan.me.uk

Hans L.
 

The 188 is the last evolution of Traxx. The 188 has no certification in Switzerland and was hauled by a Re 620 from Basel. It went for test, probably on the Lötschberg route between Frutigen and Kandersteg (my hypothesis).

Guerbetaler
 

Am 24.06.2019 um 19:08 schrieb Ewan Tait:
The AC locos can operate across borders in much the same w as the multi-system locos.
A locomotive or an EMU must fulfil at least three conditions to be able to work in a country:
1) current system (15 kV 16.7 Hz ac for Switzerland)
2) pantograph width (1450 mm for Switzerland)
3) ATP system (ETCS or EuroZUB for Switzerland)

More requirements may be added, especially about electric behaviour. For EMUs also the height of the entrance may be a criteria.

From the class 185 it was only numbers 085-150 that were fitted for Switzerland and originally only ten had ETCS.

Markus, Gürbetal

csipromo
 

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/699735/
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/699908/

The photo captions offer an explanation for the presence of the 188 in Switzerland.

Regards

Mike C

csipromo
 

"From the class 185 it was only numbers 085-150 that were fitted for Switzerland and originally only ten had ETCS."

Markus, I presume you are referring to the BR 185 belonging to DB Cargo/Railion/DB Schenker. There were also BR 185 belonging to MRCE, Angel Trains/Alpha Trains, Babcock & Brown and others of type 185 5XX, of which some were used by Crossrail, BLS Cargo and other operators in Switzerland.

Regards

Mike C

Guerbetaler
 

Am 25.06.2019 um 02:07 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
"From the class 185 it was only numbers 085-150 that were fitted for
Switzerland and originally only ten had ETCS." Markus, I presume you
are referring to the BR 185 belonging to DB Cargo/Railion/DB
Schenker.
That's right!

There were also BR 185 belonging to MRCE, Angel Trains/Alpha Trains,
Babcock & Brown and others of type 185 5XX, of which some were used
by Crossrail, BLS Cargo and other operators in Switzerland.
I can identify so far 25 locomotives that are or were (*) allowed to run in Switzerland, indicating the latest known VKM:
91 80 6185 525-3 ATLU
91 80 6185 526-1 BLSC
91 80 6185 527-9 SRTAG
91 80 6185 535-2 ATLU
91 80 6185 536-0 ATLU
91 80 6185 569-1 DISPO
91 80 6185 570-9 DISPO
91 80 6185 571-7 DISPO
91 80 6185 572-5 DISPO
91 80 6185 573-3 DISPO
91 80 6185 574-1 DISPO
91 80 6185 575-8 BEBRA
91 80 6185 576-6 LM
91 80 6185 577-4 BEBRA
91 80 6185 578-2 ITL *
91 80 6185 582-4 RHC
91 80 6185 584-0 RHC
91 80 6185 585-7 RHC
91 80 6185 586-5 RHC
91 80 6185 587-3 RHC
91 80 6185 588-1 RHC
91 80 6185 589-9 RHC
91 80 6185 593-1 BRLL *
91 80 6185 599-8 BRLL
91 80 6185 600-4 BRLL

Markus, Gürbetal

Chris Wood
 

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:37 AM, Ewan Tait wrote:
The AC locos can operate across borders in much the same was the multi-system
locos. The difference is that the MS locos can operate under both AC and DC
OHLE systems, where as the AC locos are AC only.
When you say the AC locomotives can operate across borders on AC systems, are you talking about AC systems in general, or just to the 15 Kv 16.7 Hz AC system common to Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Sweden and Norway. Specifically are these locomotives electrically compatible with the 25 Kv 50 Hz system used elsewhere in Europe?.

csipromo
 

You did not mention the CBRail/MacQuarie 185s that were leased to Crossrail other than 185 578.

185 579
185 580
185 581 (Ewals)
(All now running for Captrain/ITL)

I also seem to recall that a number of loks leased to Rail4Chem were also authorized for operation in Switzerland

185 541
185 542
185 543

There may have been others at the time. All the former R4C 185s of this subgroup are also now running for Captrain/ITL

Regards

Mike C

csipromo
 

This site has a lot of information about the various loks and types: https://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1404957&lang=1

The 185 AC1 was derived from the DB class 145 and was intended to operate on either 15 or 25kv. The 185s were produced in both versions with only 2 pantographs and in versions with 4 pantographs for multiple systems. The 2 pantograph versions were mainly seen in Germany and Austria only.
The 185s with 4 pantographs could be used in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and parts of Luxembourg and France depending on whether the lok was homologated for that country and equipped with the necessary safety systems.

Regards

Mike C

csipromo
 

Getting back to John's original query about the 188. It is the Multisystem (AC/DC) version of the latest Bombardier design.
So far, there are AFAIK 6 delivered and one is being evaluated by BLS at this moment.
The model will be available with or without last mile diesel module. As far as I know, it will still be BR 188.

It will be interesting to see where Bombardier goes from here, as BR 189 already exists (Siemens), so the next iteration will have to skip some numbers.

Regards

Mike C

John Lovda
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79976134@N07/48032914316/

Craziest logo I have ever seen.

One question off topic. There are several comments here stating Swiss voltage is 15kv. Has it changed from 11kv?

Guerbetaler
 

Am 26.06.2019 um 04:47 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
You did not mention the CBRail/MacQuarie 185s that were leased to
Crossrail other than 185 578.
185 579
185 580
185 581 (Ewals)
(All now running for Captrain/ITL)
According to Jürg's <http://www.juergs.ch/bahn/vorbild/cr/br185.html>
there were slightly more than this:
185 564-2
185 566-7
185 567-5
185 576-6
185 577-4
185 578-2
185 579-0
185 580-8
185 581-6
185 590-7
185 591-5
185 592-3
185 593-1
185 594-9
185 595-6
185 596-4
185 597-2
185 599-8
185 600-4
185 601-2
185 602-0
Some of them are still authorized to run in Switzerland, but not all.

I also seem to recall that a number of loks leased to Rail4Chem were
also authorized for operation in Switzerland
185 541
185 542
185 543
There may have been others at the time. All the former R4C 185s
of this subgroup are also now running for Captrain/ITL
According to Jürg's <http://www.juergs.ch/bahn/vorbild/r4c/br185.html>
there were eight locomtives
185 517-0
185 532-9
185 533-7
185 541-0
185 542-8
185 543-6
185 549-3
185 550-1
None of them is still authorized to run in Switzerland but they all seem to have kept the Swiss pantograph. Unlike the Signum magnet which has been remmoved.

Markus, Gürbetal