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SBB Cargo locos

Martin Baumann
 

You appear to be replying to a message from March 2018. 11603 was sold August 27 2018

Hans L.
 

Really? Is not Re620 11603 property of RailAdventure company?

Martin Baumann
 

193 517 is works number 22694 91 80 6193 517-0 D-SIEAG

gordonwis
 

Close ups from my April trip showing the differnce between Swiss ownership (RailCare) and German ownership (SBB Cargo International 193 in 'full Swiss livery')

Ewan Tait
 

On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 07:37, csipromo via Groups.Io <csipromo=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I don't know why SBB did not continue to use the Re 4XX designation for
Swiss machines, like BLS did.
The SBB Cargo Int Vectrons are all registered in Germany, hence 193s. The
BLS Cargo and Railcare Vectrons are registered in Switzerland, therefore Re
475 and Rem 476.

Regards,
Ewan

--
http://ewan.me.uk

Guerbetaler
 

Am 01.10.2019 um 04:41 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
I don't know why SBB did not continue to use the Re 4XX designation
for Swiss machines, like BLS did.
Because they are neither owner nor keeper nor ECM of the locomotives. As a consequence, the locomotives are registered in Germany and the German authority calls the Vectron 193, while the Swiss authority calls them 475 and 476 for the version with auxiliary diesel.

Markus, Gürbetal

csipromo
 

There is a PKP EU46 516 (Siemens 22578) from the series 501-518. There were supposed to be 15 with an option for 5 more. PKP might have numbered the additional 5 as 516-520 even though the 193 XXX numbers are not sequential.

I don't know why SBB did not continue to use the Re 4XX designation for Swiss machines, like BLS did.

Regards

Mike C

csipromo
 

When is SBB IN supposed to take possession of the first of the new series?

Regards

Mike C

Martin Baumann
 

The numbers start at 516 because PKP EU46-501 to 515 are 193 501 to 193 515 as well as their Polish numbers

Martin Baumann
 

The first SüdLeasing Vectron for SBB-CI has been released.

It is 91 80 6 193 516-2 D-SIEAG works number 22629 accepted 16.09.2019

https://railcolornews.com/2019/09/20/ch-first-vectron-for-sudleasing-and-sbb-cargo-international-released/

Ewan Tait
 

On 23 Jul 2019, at 21:48, Guerbetaler <guerbetaler@...> wrote:
But I don't know the contracts between these companies and they aren't public.
SBB Cargo Deutschland and SBB Cargo Italia are both subsidiaries of SBB Cargo International, with SBB Cargo International owned by SBB Cargo (75%) and HUPAC (25%).

Cheers,
Ewan

--
http://ewan.me.uk
http://flickr.com/maccookie

Guerbetaler
 

To add some confusion to the question, I will give you some facts. I don't know how these facts will influence trains and traction.

- Gradients within Switzerland are partly steeper than in Germany and Italy, thus not every train that can be hauled by single locomotive in the neighbouring countries can do so in Switzerland.

- Maximum train length within Switzerland was increased to 750 m and trains of more than 500 m will get a discount on the track access fee when crossing Switzerland. Two trains arriving in Chiasso would have to go South as three trains.

- Trains crossing Switzerland with two locmotives get a discount on the track access fee, because their acceleration is better, which reduces the time a train blocks a block.

- Trains over the Ceneri can not normally go with one single locomotive.

Now you can speculate about the consequences. And I'm sure the railway undertakings will not do what you think ... :-P

Markus, Gürbetal

Ewan Tait
 

On 25 Jul 2019, at 00:30, gordonwis via Groups.Io <gordonwis=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Mike,

As I understand it Re10/10 still take over some trans-European freight trains at Muttenz from other traction, and potentially then give way at Bellinzona to, say, a 474 - these would be the main Re6/6 and Re4/4 under direct threat from new Vectrons, as Re's get replaced by locos that can haul a pan European train from eg Zeebrugge - Milano. Even a die hard enthusiast can perhaps see the 'finance department's' point in this instance - a single 'unit' (be it a single loco or a pair) can replace three separate units.
Replacing the NL/D, CH and I locos with a single NL/D/CH/I loco won’t necessarily save you three locos. The NL/D loco would not wait for the train to go all the way to Milan and back before its next working; it would pick up a northbound train at Basel SBB RB shortly after arriving. That’s not to say that there isn’t a saving, as clearly there is. Using a single multi-system loco removes the need for loco-changes at Basel SBB and Chiasso/Bellinzona/Domo, reducing journey times, reducing the staff resource and make the loco usage more efficient.

One thing that I noted in 2017, the summer after the GBT opened, was that SBBC Int trains via Luino that I saw on the Gotthard route were often hauled by a single Re 474 south of Basel, whereas previously the Re 474 would have been unlikely to work north of Bellinzona due to the need for two of them. With the opening of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, then there won’t be any requirement to double-head on the Gotthard axis. Does anyone know what currently happens with SBBC Int trains via Chiasso? Are they using single Vectrons over the Ceneri? Do they have Vectrons in Ticino that are used to double-head the trains over the mountain? Are they swapping to Re 10/10s at Bellinzona? Do they double-head Vectrons all the way from Basel to Chiasso?

It’s also worth noting that SBBC Int trains via the Lötschberg are normally double-headed south of Basel (I’m not sure if the second loco comes off at Brig or Domo), presumably to allow for the fact that the train may go via the Lötschberg Summit Tunnel. BLS on the other hand have plenty of locos on hand at Spiez and Brig so that they can easily add a second loco if the train has to go over the top.

With the CBT opening, will there be more capacity on the Gotthard axis, or are there still constraints in Italy that will limit the number of trains? With no need for double-heading on the Gotthard axis, it will be a far more attractive route until the Lötschberg Base Tunnel is completed.

Regards,
Ewan


http://ewan.me.uk
http://flickr.com/maccookie

gordonwis
 

Hi Mike,

As I understand it Re10/10 still take over some trans-European freight trains at Muttenz from other traction, and potentially then give way at Bellinzona to, say, a 474 - these would be the main Re6/6 and Re4/4 under direct threat from new Vectrons, as Re's get replaced by locos that can haul a pan European train from eg Zeebrugge - Milano. Even a die hard enthusiast can perhaps see the 'finance department's' point in this instance - a single 'unit' (be it a single loco or a pair) can replace three separate units.

Not SBB IN but an example of the 'old ('inefficiant') way; my mate came back from a Swiss trip and showed me tonight a freight at Domo which came in with Italian traction and got take over by a BLS 465

On Wednesday, 24 July 2019, 15:57:21 BST, csipromo via Groups.Io <csipromo=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I guess that a SBBIN train would be a train that was being hauled from Point of Origin (PoO) to Destination by SBBIN. This could be hauled by MS locomotives from departure to destination or by a combination of loks (if required). This could be a ES64F4 (MRCE), a BR 193 (LokRoll). If it was a BR 185 (MRCE), Re 421, Re 482, a lok change would be required at least for the TI network (Italy). SBBIN would be under contract to pick up and deliver that consist.
Would SBBIN still handle a train which was brought to Basel Bad/Muttenz by a foreign operator (DB/Lineas-SNCB/ERS/etc) or would that train be handled by SBBC?

Regards

Mike C

csipromo
 

I guess that a SBBIN train would be a train that was being hauled from Point of Origin (PoO) to Destination by SBBIN. This could be hauled by MS locomotives from departure to destination or by a combination of loks (if required). This could be a ES64F4 (MRCE), a BR 193 (LokRoll). If it was a BR 185 (MRCE), Re 421, Re 482, a lok change would be required at least for the TI network (Italy). SBBIN would be under contract to pick up and deliver that consist.
Would SBBIN still handle a train which was brought to Basel Bad/Muttenz by a foreign operator (DB/Lineas-SNCB/ERS/etc) or would that train be handled by SBBC?

Regards

Mike C

gordonwis
 

I may be wrong, but when I am out and about as I was by the Lötschberg for my unexpected extended stay in April, it is my understanding that if I see a long distance container or swap body train, hauled by an Re10/10, that will be a SBBC IN working. If the next thing I see is a single Re6/6 , Re4/4 or combination of same on a few wagons, that will be an internal SBBC working. For some time now I have been expecting to see fewer 'international' type workings* with Re6/6 or Re10/10 - which has indeed happened and I've seen more and more Vectrons. I reported on such workings as I saw in April recently on the group.

* That is why I was extra pleased in April when I saw and photted the Re10/10 'international' workings - the in the photos

Two photos attached to illustrate my point, one is surely SBBC IN, the other SBBC 'domestic' On Tuesday, 23 July 2019,

Guerbetaler
 

Am 23.07.2019 um 19:31 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
I was not aware of the breakdown of the fleet between SBBC and SBBIN.
I assumed that all of the inland loks were with SBBC.
This is not a breakdown of the fleet. But SBBC lends some locomotives to SBBIN. Until now SBBIN doesn't own any vehicle and they haven't registered a single vehicle for the comapny. In the Swiss rolling stock register you can't find SBBIN, only SBBC.

Both SBBC and SBBIN have a licence for track access within Switzerland. These licences are valid on Swiss territory plus a few kilometers in neighbouring countries. See the recent discussion about "Grenzbetriebsstrecken".

SBB Cargo Deutschland doesn't have an official acronym of any sort. If you google for them, you will arrive on the SBBIN website. It mentions also SBBCI as an address for SBBIN.

But I don't know the contracts between these companies and they aren't public.

Markus, Gürbetal

Heléna Moretti
 

Csipromo asked “I was not aware of the breakdown of the fleet between SBBC and SBBIN. I assumed that all of the inland loks were with SBBC.
I knew that the Re 482 were primarily used by SBBCD, along with a number of MRCE 185 and a few ELL 193s. The Re 474 and 484 were shared by SBBC and SBBCI.
SBBIN was operating the leased MRCE ES64F4, ELL and LokRoll 193 MS units.
Can anybody provide a breakdown of which Re 6/6 belong to SBBIN and what trains they are used for?”
SBB International Re6/6:

620.062-072; 620.074-089

Re4/4”

11162/3, 420.165, 11256, 11261, 11267, 11280/1, 11286, 11305, 11319/320, 11324, 11326-332, 11334-349

Re4/4”’

11350/1, 11358

Re421

421.385-388 and perhaps 390.

That is how it was in January 2019 but may well have evolved

Helena

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

csipromo
 

One more silly Vectron/SBBIN question... Would it not make sense to order locomotives that in addtion to DACHINL can also operate in Belgium? It would be logical to me that SBBIN would also like to have access to ports like Antwerp, Zeebrugge and Ghent.

Regards

Mike C

csipromo
 

I was not aware of the breakdown of the fleet between SBBC and SBBIN. I assumed that all of the inland loks were with SBBC.
I knew that the Re 482 were primarily used by SBBCD, along with a number of MRCE 185 and a few ELL 193s. The Re 474 and 484 were shared by SBBC and SBBCI.
SBBIN was operating the leased MRCE ES64F4, ELL and LokRoll 193 MS units.

Can anybody provide a breakdown of which Re 6/6 belong to SBBIN and what trains they are used for?

I thought that SBBCD used 482 to bring cargo from DE into CH. It was then taken south by SBBC and handed over to SBBCI for delivery. It seems that it is much more complex.

I knew SBB(P) was slowly taking the Re 4/4II (first series) out of operation, with the number expected to jump once lok pulled consists are replaced by the new Giruno and Twindexx units. The new consists for Zurich-Stuttgart (146 Twindexx DE) and Zurich-Munich will also lead to reduced Re 420 requirements.

Regards

Mike C