Date   
Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

Guerbetaler
 

Am 24.06.2019 um 19:08 schrieb Ewan Tait:
The AC locos can operate across borders in much the same w as the multi-system locos.
A locomotive or an EMU must fulfil at least three conditions to be able to work in a country:
1) current system (15 kV 16.7 Hz ac for Switzerland)
2) pantograph width (1450 mm for Switzerland)
3) ATP system (ETCS or EuroZUB for Switzerland)

More requirements may be added, especially about electric behaviour. For EMUs also the height of the entrance may be a criteria.

From the class 185 it was only numbers 085-150 that were fitted for Switzerland and originally only ten had ETCS.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

csipromo
 

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/699735/
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/699908/

The photo captions offer an explanation for the presence of the 188 in Switzerland.

Regards

Mike C

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

csipromo
 

"From the class 185 it was only numbers 085-150 that were fitted for Switzerland and originally only ten had ETCS."

Markus, I presume you are referring to the BR 185 belonging to DB Cargo/Railion/DB Schenker. There were also BR 185 belonging to MRCE, Angel Trains/Alpha Trains, Babcock & Brown and others of type 185 5XX, of which some were used by Crossrail, BLS Cargo and other operators in Switzerland.

Regards

Mike C

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

Guerbetaler
 

Am 25.06.2019 um 02:07 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
"From the class 185 it was only numbers 085-150 that were fitted for
Switzerland and originally only ten had ETCS." Markus, I presume you
are referring to the BR 185 belonging to DB Cargo/Railion/DB
Schenker.
That's right!

There were also BR 185 belonging to MRCE, Angel Trains/Alpha Trains,
Babcock & Brown and others of type 185 5XX, of which some were used
by Crossrail, BLS Cargo and other operators in Switzerland.
I can identify so far 25 locomotives that are or were (*) allowed to run in Switzerland, indicating the latest known VKM:
91 80 6185 525-3 ATLU
91 80 6185 526-1 BLSC
91 80 6185 527-9 SRTAG
91 80 6185 535-2 ATLU
91 80 6185 536-0 ATLU
91 80 6185 569-1 DISPO
91 80 6185 570-9 DISPO
91 80 6185 571-7 DISPO
91 80 6185 572-5 DISPO
91 80 6185 573-3 DISPO
91 80 6185 574-1 DISPO
91 80 6185 575-8 BEBRA
91 80 6185 576-6 LM
91 80 6185 577-4 BEBRA
91 80 6185 578-2 ITL *
91 80 6185 582-4 RHC
91 80 6185 584-0 RHC
91 80 6185 585-7 RHC
91 80 6185 586-5 RHC
91 80 6185 587-3 RHC
91 80 6185 588-1 RHC
91 80 6185 589-9 RHC
91 80 6185 593-1 BRLL *
91 80 6185 599-8 BRLL
91 80 6185 600-4 BRLL

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

Chris Wood
 

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:37 AM, Ewan Tait wrote:
The AC locos can operate across borders in much the same was the multi-system
locos. The difference is that the MS locos can operate under both AC and DC
OHLE systems, where as the AC locos are AC only.
When you say the AC locomotives can operate across borders on AC systems, are you talking about AC systems in general, or just to the 15 Kv 16.7 Hz AC system common to Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Sweden and Norway. Specifically are these locomotives electrically compatible with the 25 Kv 50 Hz system used elsewhere in Europe?.

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

csipromo
 

You did not mention the CBRail/MacQuarie 185s that were leased to Crossrail other than 185 578.

185 579
185 580
185 581 (Ewals)
(All now running for Captrain/ITL)

I also seem to recall that a number of loks leased to Rail4Chem were also authorized for operation in Switzerland

185 541
185 542
185 543

There may have been others at the time. All the former R4C 185s of this subgroup are also now running for Captrain/ITL

Regards

Mike C

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

csipromo
 

This site has a lot of information about the various loks and types: https://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1404957&lang=1

The 185 AC1 was derived from the DB class 145 and was intended to operate on either 15 or 25kv. The 185s were produced in both versions with only 2 pantographs and in versions with 4 pantographs for multiple systems. The 2 pantograph versions were mainly seen in Germany and Austria only.
The 185s with 4 pantographs could be used in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and parts of Luxembourg and France depending on whether the lok was homologated for that country and equipped with the necessary safety systems.

Regards

Mike C

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

csipromo
 

Getting back to John's original query about the 188. It is the Multisystem (AC/DC) version of the latest Bombardier design.
So far, there are AFAIK 6 delivered and one is being evaluated by BLS at this moment.
The model will be available with or without last mile diesel module. As far as I know, it will still be BR 188.

It will be interesting to see where Bombardier goes from here, as BR 189 already exists (Siemens), so the next iteration will have to skip some numbers.

Regards

Mike C

Re: Bombardier 185 vs 188

John Lovda
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79976134@N07/48032914316/

Craziest logo I have ever seen.

One question off topic. There are several comments here stating Swiss voltage is 15kv. Has it changed from 11kv?

Re: Voltage in Switzerland, was: Bombardier 185 vs 188

Guerbetaler
 

Am 26.06.2019 um 19:26 schrieb John Lovda via Groups.Io:
There are several comments here stating Swiss voltage is 15kv. Has it changed from 11kv?
RhB/MGB have 11 kV.
SBB, BLS, SOB, ZB, Travys, MBC etc. ever had 15 kV

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Voltage in Switzerland, was: Bombardier 185 vs 188

John Lovda
 

Markus:
Sorry for my mistake.
John

Lotschberg Car Shuttles

StuartSmith
 

BLS 175, 179, 186, 195 operating today.

Re 4/4 II/III

Martin Baumann
 

11120 and 11360 went for scrap today.

11360 was allegedly damaged in an accident last year in Langenthal but no details have been made public

BLS465’s

StuartSmith
 

465008: 06:53 Bern - La Chaux de F.
465006: 07:53 Bern - La Chaux de F.
465005: 08:53 Bern - La Chaux de F.

28/6/19.

Lorry causes tram derailment in Zurich

Martin Baumann
 
Edited

Re: Re 4/4 II/III

43096
 

On a more positive note - and I can't recall this being mentioned on here before - 11118 has returned to service. This was the loco that went through the shed doors at Buchs and collided with the stock inside a while back, so I was somewhat surprised to see it in service this week, given the introduction to service of the new Bombardier sets.

Also noted during the last week were a handful of Cargo Re4/4 IIs with drop down Scharfenburg/Dellner-type couplers. 11278 was one of those seen. The couplers are lifted up when not required (a bit like the UK Class 57/3 "Thunderbirds") and the TSI number is moved to one side.

Re: Tm III (was Re: unidentified locomotives)

Guerbetaler
 

From the bridge on which IC to Bern leave ZÜrich HB, I could see a
third Tm III. But this one was (today) in a position impossible to
take a photo of.
Entering Zürich HB with the IC from Bern gives a different angle and I
could get the number of the third TmIII today, it's number 19. So the
full list is:

Ta 974
98 85 5231 009-2 ex 909
98 85 5231 010-0 ex 910
98 85 5231 019-1 ex 919

HTH
Markus

detailed 2 week freight observations Lötschberg route

gordonwis
 

Horribly late I’m afraid but time has run away from me due to circumstances - hope the info is useful to someone

Spent a week on holiday in the Visp area in April, and I ended up staying an extra week due to unforeseen circumstances. Therefore got quite a ‘close up’ view of how things run on the BLS route at present
The most notable thing was that, despite the current rebuild project on the BLS ‘mountain’ route (via the old tunnel) a significant number of freight trains go ‘over the top’ - some are clearly booked to do so on a regular basis - others appear to be pathed as traffic conditions dictate on the day.

Observations on the BLS Lötschberg route as follows. These were mainly lineside in the Visp / Brig area

Notes on directions quoted: northbound / southbound = a train known to be or assumed to be following the BLS north - south axis (ie Spiez - Brig); westbound / eastbound = a train known to be or assumed to be following the Valais route (ie Sion - Brig)

7 April - Kiesen (lunch spot on drive from UK)

all trains running on up line (down track non existent north of Kiesen towards Wichtrach due to major track upgrade works)

486 503 + 486 UID northbound containers 12.29
620 080 + 11340 (all red Re10/10) swap bodies/semi trailers northbound 13.02

IC8
460 003

IC6/61
460 053, 059

8 apr - Visp - Brig area

420 326 southbound freight 1227
620013 light loco southbound 1247
486 506 containers northbound 12.48
486 505 + 475 403 swap bodies / semi trailers Northbound 13.10
485 017 485 011 ROLA Southbound 14.51
Railcare 476 452 northbound mountain route 15.09

460 004 westbound 12.31

9 April - Visp - Brig area

485 010 rola northbound 11.42
193 493 WRS widmer freight in yard parked 11.45
193 494 + 186 251 containers southbound 17.48
420 336 + 620 079 northbound Ferrymasters semi trailers / swap bodies (always goes over mountain route)

10 April - Gamsen (am)
185 131 + 185 117 southbound ‘Eanos' 09.08

10 April - Raron pm

620 076 tanktainers southbound 18.01

11 April

485 019 ROLA southbound 11.07
843 063 Gampel waste/tankers trip eastbound 11.14
843 066 tankers eastbound 11.18 ex Visp
465 013 + 465 0xx Axis containers southbound 11.44
185 117 11.48 Wascosa tankers southbound
11667 + 11345 containers southbound 16.53
843 066 eastbound mixed (very) trip 17.09
465 007 + 465 009 southbound containers 17.41
186 106 + 486 506 southbound mainly tanktainers 17.47
420 321 southbound vans 17.50
172 tankers northbound (mountain route) 17.59


12 April

Brig

420 290 eastbound vans 17.18 (same working as prev day)
620 013 southbound cereals 17.28
460 042 (rev) westbound 17.32
620 017 eastbound vans 17.34
620 079(?) 420 349 17.49 northbound Ferrymasters semi trailers / swap bodies (always goes over top)


14 April

11196 Brig EW set loco parked

15 April

Visp

486 501 486 xxx containers northbound


(425) 186 arrives at Visp with white orange stripe tankers for Lonza 08.57

IC8: 460 100
IR61: 460 004, 032, 099

420 283 (auto coupling) westbound light loco 09.16
11194 + 111XX (light loco eastbound)
485 015 southbound Rola 09.43
420 280 voith auto coupling livery light loco westbound 09.50
185 089 light loco westbound 09.54
193 461 southbound semi trailers / swap bodies / semi trailers mainly Walter) 10.46

11196 Brig EW set parked 11.46

843 066 Gampel rubbish trip eastbound 11.51
485 007 + 485 018 rola southbound 11.54
620 018 light loco arriving Brig yard southbound 12.00

475 415 475 4x2? tanktainers p1 (southbound) 12.23
186 108 193 496 bloc 12.26
420 293 short vans various plus 1 Bertschi container
620070 + 420 xxx waiting northbound 12.38

Visp

DB 193 340 + 193 304 Southbound semi trailers 13.17
420 254 short freight Southbound 19.43

IR61: 460 027, 065 065
420 286 on the late evening tanktainers rake ex Lonza (departs circa 22.20 each evening from Visp westbound)

193 475 + 474 015 northbound 20.04 semi trailers inc Walter


16 April

185 139 + 185 1xx UID + 185 089 banker on rear Tamns (covered minerals) southbound 08.48

Black ‘189’ UID plus 193 4xx UID with containers up south ramp 09.29 seen from Visp

485 018 rola southbound 09.39
465 009 + 465 018 containers northbound 09.42
420 296 2 vans westbound 09.52
185 115 southbound tankers
420 261 mixed freight eastbound 12.22

485 003 ROLA southbound 12.49



485 012 485 010 semi trailers/swap bodies southbound 13.39

620 015 + 420 261 light loco westbound 13.50
485 015 southbound rola 19.43
474 002 + 474 UID Southbound containers 19.52
420 326 mixed freight mostly vans eastbound 19.59
420 293 postal westbound 20.37
620 017 mixed freight westbound 20.43
420 273 + 421 UID tanks (military) eastbound 20.48

IC8 services (IC 2000 double deck stock some in Jumbo formation with lok both ends): 017 028 078 refit082

IR90 services (single deck EWIV / EC) push pull 002 (refit) 004 (blackened body) 032 036 042 refit 075 (Leman 2030 white) 078??


17 April

11198 spare Brig 08.19

Brig yard arr/dep


BLS 178 Eaos and vans westbound 08.29


Mulenen / Reichenbach iK area

420 337 + 620 074 containers northbound 10.00
474 002 + 474 UID swap bodies / semi trailers southbound 10.18
465 017 + 465 012 containers northbound 10.26
185 131 light loco northbound 10.43
186 105 + 475 405 swap bodies / semi trailers Northbound 10.55
180 light loco northbound 10.58
485 009 Rola Southbound 11.01
485 018 Rola Southbound 11.03
486 505 containers Northbound 12.09
485 UID Northbound Rola 12.53
485 020 + 485 001 Southbound swap bodies / semi trailers 13.09
485 013 + 486 503 (?) Northbound swap bodies / semi trailers 13.52
474 012 + 193 260 northbound swap bodies / semi trailers 14.24
475 413 Southbound containers 14.27
476 452 Northbound Railcare 15.28
465 013 + 465 015 Southbound Ambrogio 15.54
465 011 + 465 014 Southbound containers 16.02
420 335 + 620 0XX Southbound swap bodies / semi trailers 16.48

Visp

465 017 tankers eastbound 20.32
420 255 westbound postal 20.37
185 131 mixed Eastbound 20.47
420 266 on late night Bertschi dep

18 Apr

Visp
620 068 + 420 UID Westbound swap bodies / semi trailers 07.39

Gampel Steg
843 066 Gampel Steg trip (shunts) 08.45

Brig
11158 EW spare 09.27

189 + 191 white type containers Eastbound 09.48

184 ECS Autoverlad set Brig - Goppenstein 09.55
193 494 + 475 401 Northbound semi trailers BLS 175 BANKER - over the top ****

843 063 tankers Eastbound 10.18

193 469 + 193 2 XX swap bodies / semi trailers Northbound 10.36
420 337 + 620 074 Southbound swap bodies / semi trailers 10.57
11158 11.00 to Domo

475 411 + 186 108 Northbound swap bodies / semi trailers 11.13
185 138 wascosa tankers Eastbound 11.49
485 013 + 485 011 Southbound Rola 12.26
620 028 + 11249 Eastbound vans 12.30
185 111 + 185 090 tankers Northbound 13.49
476 452 Railcare Northbound 14.10

Visp
193 256 semi trailers Southbound 14.49
420 347 + 11670 containers southbound 19.50
485 002 + 485 0XX Northbound Rola 19.52
11157 BONUS Sion Geneve RIC set ECS Eastbound 20.00
420 325 mostly vans Eastbound 20.12
193 red uid + 193 black uid semi trailers Westbound 20.21
BLS 1xx 1xx Southbound 20.47
420 295 Westbound post vans 20.48


19 April Good Friday

Liestal
460 019 southbound single deck 10.10

Pratteln
On a hunch I travelled all the way from south to north (doesn’t take long these days thanks to Bahn 2000 upgraded lines to see if any freight was running through Pratteln (as I had spent 2 weeks somewhat enforced on the Lötschberg route) it was the easiest way to see some Gotthard route freight

SM = Sissach - Muttenz or vice versa (MS) (normally indicates a Lötschberg route train)
FM = Frick - Muttenz or vice versa (MF) (Gotthard route or Basel - RB - Zurich RB)

11121 10.22 load 6 MF Basel - Zurich IR via Frick
485 017 Rola northbound SM 10.36
620 055 containers FM 10.47
186 104 + UID BLS 485 same/similar SM 11.00
185 121 mixed wagonload MF 11.05
193 494 + BLS 485 UID MS containers 11.06
193 472 FM containers 11.07
620 058 FM mixed freight 11.22
486 502 MF southbound Ambrogio 11.36
485 002 MS Rola southbound 11.49
486 508 MF swap bodies 11.50
193 258 FM containers 11.52
185 090 MF steel covereds 12.05
Crossrail 186 905 + 18x UID FM Wetron 12.05
420 342 + 620 xxx FM 12.10 containers
475 402 FM mixed containers
11126 + 11122 12.41 Basel - Zurich IR via Frick
420 340 + 620 062 SM LKW Walter 13.00
193 474 FM mixed containers 13.14
185 132 FM mixed freight 13.17
475 415 + 186 105 MS containers 13.27


20 April

last look at Brig getting a few phots of the Domo EWI oldie sets departing Brig
11158 departed 09.47
11198 departed 10.49


Further notes on train formations and what operator hauls them:

The Wetron I saw at Pratteln was hauled by Crossrail 186/9 pair

LKW Walter trailers singly mixed with other names (sbbc haulage, sometimes 474)
Block LKW Walter with BLSC 186+475 haulage (but was NOT totally Walter, there were some Ewals and Codognotto mixed in)
Same but with CLdNCargo/Ferrymasters mix
train with almost half the consist block Van Dijk containers (BLSC 465 haulage)
Ferrymasters, Transmec and Others mixed (DB 193 /3 haulage)
‘all Walter’ (SBBC 474 + 193/2 haulage)
‘all Walter’ (SBBC 193/4 + 193/2 haulage)
Samskip (BLS 475 haulage)
Ambrogio (BLS 465 pair haulage)
Ambrogio (single BLS 486 but at Pratteln))
Intermodaltrasporti block (BLS 425 brownie pair haulage)
‘mostly Walter’ (SBBC Re10/10 haulage)

Lötschberg Car Shuttles

StuartSmith
 

175, 179, 181, 182 +1 other operating today.

29/06/19.

BLS465’s (Day 2)

StuartSmith
 

465006: 11.53 Bern - La Chaux de F.
465008: 12:53 Bern - La Chaux de F.
465004: 13:53 Bern - La Chaux de F.

29/6/19.