Date   
Re: MGB loks 21-24

Guerbetaler
 

Am 17.02.2020 um 01:57 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:
in fact 2041 - 2043 were one of my favourite EMUs anywhere - there
was just something about them - they had a slightly different
appearance to many Swiss metre gauge vehicles so stood out
I wondered in which way they stood out. I collected some faces to compare. Starting with the 1939 RhB ABe 4/4 501-04 many motor coaches were built in a basically similar design. Width of the vehicle made a rather narrow or a wide appearance, the window could be high or not so high. In many cases the windows had a rubber frame, many others didn't have. And the edges wer slightly rounded.
<https://groups.io/g/SwissRail/album?id=241366>

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: MGB loks 21-24

Guerbetaler
 

Am 17.02.2020 um 01:57 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:
2. Please remember to take into account British railway terminology.
Oh yes, I do. I bought the Ian Allen and later Platform 5 booklets
since the 1970ies.

MGB 21 - 24 are not ‘EMU’ to most British railway people. The most accurate term for them in UK railway English is probably ‘motor luggage van’
I often use the term motor luggage van for the MGB Deh. However, motor
luggage vans are always listed under EMUs in British booklets.

but like the SBB 450s they look and act like locos
However, SBB's 450s are officially classified as locos and their luggage
compartment has been out of use for many years. Initially the doors had
been painted like other doors (of the coaches) but now they no longer carry a special colour.

and slightly fall into a ‘muddy’ area of terminology because when coupled up to a set of coaches they would probably be termed ‘power car’
Power car would be another appropriate term, but this still isn't a
locomotive :-)

In UK railway parlance, EMU refers to an almost permanently fixed
set of two or more coaches whereby you would very rarely (if ever)
see the power car separated from the rest of the set to be parked in
a shed or to move around as a single vehicle.
For many years this was the case for all 15 Deh that now belong to MGB,
as there had been a driving trailer for each Deh available. This changed
with two Bt 2251-52 often used with HGe 4/4" and finally with the new
concept of modules B-ABt added to the Visp - Andermatt trains.

For a long time there had also been fixed consists, e.g.
51-4251-4252-4151
52-4253-4254-4152
etc.
And they have different couplers within the set.

This is quite different to how 21 - 24 are used. They are frequently
uncoupled from stock and go into a shed on their own as happens at
Disentis and Glisergrund. It is quite likely that the next set of
coaches that they would then couple up to would be different. This
would never happen with a British ‘EMU’ - as I mentioned last April
22 was in Glisergrund sitting on its own like a locomotive (see
photo) then within a few hours had been coupled up to a ‘loco hauled'
set of coaches.
No, when in use as power car they are never uncoupled anywhere else than in the workshop. But as most Swiss motor coaches they are quite powerful and can thus be used for other purposes.

Interestingly the development was mostly from motor coaches in near locomotive use towards a pure power car function, as could be seen with SBB RBe 4/4 or BT/SOB BDe 4/4 or even RhB ABe 4/4. But it's the opposite with MGB who, after the arrival of the HGe 4/4" started to use some Deh as locomotive like.

Today mostly two of 21-24 work as EMU with 2253-54 and two work as locomotive replacements. Recently also one or two ex-FO Deh were seen working single.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: MGB loks 21-24

gordonwis
 

1. OK I missed out one key word : I should have typed ‘Komet EMUs’ as I am fully aware of the older EMUs - in fact 2041 - 2043 were one of my favourite EMUs anywhere - there was just something about them - they had a slightly different appearance to many Swiss metre gauge vehicles so stood out.

2. Please remember to take into account British railway terminology. MGB 21 - 24 are not ‘EMU’ to most British railway people. The most accurate term for them in UK railway English is probably ‘motor luggage van’ but like the SBB 450s they look and act like locos and slightly fall into a ‘muddy’ area of terminology because when coupled up to a set of coaches they would probably be termed ‘power car’

In UK railway parlance, EMU refers to an almost permanently fixed set of two or more coaches whereby you would very rarely (if ever) see the power car separated from the rest of the set to be parked in a shed or to move around as a single vehicle. This is quite different to how 21 - 24 are used. They are frequently uncoupled from stock and go into a shed on their own as happens at Disentis and Glisergrund. It is quite likely that the next set of coaches that they would then couple up to would be different. This would never happen with a British ‘EMU’ - as I mentioned last April 22 was in Glisergrund sitting on its own like a locomotive (see photo) then within a few hours had been coupled up to a ‘loco hauled' set of coaches.

On Saturday, 15 February 2020, 15:27:17 GMT, Guerbetaler <guerbetaler@...> wrote:

Sorry for the rant, but 21-24 are EMU as well.
And apart from this I might remember you of the the fact that there had
been earlier EMUs on BVZ as well with ABDeh 6/6 2031-32 and ABDeh 8/8
2041-43.

St Margrethen-Bregenz Closure

Martin Baumann
 

There will be no trains from 21:30 19.07.2020 until start of traffic 14.09.2020 due to engineering work.

The Zürich-München EC trains will not run during this period.

15-02-2020

Clive Dean
 

[moderator's note: This mail has been edited. See remakrs below]

Here is another recent circulation of photos from my friend Mario Stefani,
a keen railway photographer. Most of his circulations are of modern day
Swiss trains, with a significant percentage shot near to his home in Boudry
south of Neuchatel. Often trips take him to the Lotschberg, the Gotthard,
the RhB and MOB. From time to time he will send out photos from his
collection of slides dating from the 80s through to the 00s. If any member
of the group would like to join his daily circulations please send him a
request by email. He is a french speaker but has an understanding of
English. Alternative you can find them on Facebook under "Engine Railtrack"

Dixie Dean

[We have limited attachments in our group to 500 KB. This is why I have moved the photos attached to the photo section of the group. You find them under this link: <https://groups.io/g/SwissRail/album?id=241302> - apart from some not railway-related stuff.]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mario STEFANI <mario.stefani1946@...>
Date: Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 7:57 PM
Subject: 15-02-2020
To:
Hello Bonsoir,
Le 15-02-2020
Après la Bourse de Peseux Bernard est venu tester une rame TALGO
Ensuite on va sur le FO des grandes années
Vidéo de la rame de Bernard:

[the video is private and can't be accessed. Please only post public stuff.]

Mario STEFANI
Rue Oscar Huguenin 3
CH-2017 BOUDRY
I Will Always Love You
Email Adress : mario.stefani1946@ <mario.stefani1946@...>gmail.com
Facebook : Engine Railtrack

Re: Haribu

Guerbetaler
 

Am 16.02.2020 um 11:15 schrieb tudor erich via Groups.Io:
Does anyone know what the provenance is of the RhB information Haribu provides?
no, and he won't tell you

Is he/she an RhB emplyer in the right place to record such inforamation
yes, he works in Landquart

or a very keen observer of things RhB?
also

Markus

Haribu

tudor erich
 

Does anyone know what the provenance is of the RhB information Haribu provides? Is he/she an RhB emplyer in the right place to record such inforamation or a very keen observer of things RhB?
Bernard

Re: RhB BASIC TRAIN CONSISTS

Robin Jorimann
 

In my count this toatals 5
Thank you again, Markus

Re: RhB BASIC TRAIN CONSISTS

Guerbetaler
 

Am 14.02.2020 um 08:57 schrieb Robin Jorimann:
Does this mean the Allegras have four or more coaches?
What I wrote was this:
Am 13.02.2020 um 23:03 schrieb Guerbetaler:
This is why ... Allegras [now] come with B" and Bt
Allegra 3501-15 = 3-car
B" = 1 coach
Bt = 1 driving trailer

In my count this toatals 5

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: MGB loks 21-24

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.02.2020 um 01:54 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:
Since the arrival of the EMUs on the Zermatt line, 21 - 24 can appear
at any time anywhere really.
Sorry for the rant, but 21-24 are EMU as well. When working push-pull over the Obealp they mostly have GF-couplers within the set. The classic central buffer with two chains is not very well suited for pushing operations.

And apart from this I might remember you of the the fact that there had been earlier EMUs on BVZ as well with ABDeh 6/6 2031-32 and ABDeh 8/8 2041-43. even if you could classify them rather as "Allegraish " :-P

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: RhB BASIC TRAIN CONSISTS

Robin Jorimann
 

Thank you, Markus.

Does this mean the Allegras have four or more coaches? Last summer I did not see one Allegra on the Davos - Filisur shuttle and after some lovely walks I always seemed to end up at the station cafe at Filisur for a beer and an hour or so of trains!
Thank you again

Re: MGB loks 21-24

gordonwis
 

Since the arrival of the EMUs on the Zermatt line, 21 - 24 can appear at any time anywhere really.
(For some reason there are one of my favourite types of Swiss motive power, possibly due to them being ever present on my fondly remembered all family trips to Zermatt over the last 15 or so years, especially one trip when one of them spent most of the week constantly visiting the siding within spitting distance of my Zermatt Ambassador hotel room balcony.)

For example, 23 was out and about above Disentis a few summers ago when we were camping near Disentis.

More recently, in April 2019 during my enforced longer than expected time in the Visp/Brig area, as it was my first visit to the Visp area for a few years, on 11 April when I saw 22 in the dept at Glisergrund I thought - “oh well - it doesn’t look very active - they’re probably only used in emergency these days” - only for it to pop up on a passenger working at Brig the next day. Similarly, later that week, having got use to most Deh worked trains being in the hands of the 51 or 91series, suddenly on 16 April at Visp, 21 appeared working a train at around 10.00 then 22 also appeared at 13.15 the same day on a working to Zermatt.

Re: RhB BASIC TRAIN CONSISTS

Guerbetaler
 

Am 13.02.2020 um 11:31 schrieb Robin Jorimann:
Three coaches (which Allegras are) are inadequate for the Davos -
Filisur shuttle.
This is why Ge 4/4 III now have four coaches and Allegras come with B"
and Bt

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: RhB BASIC TRAIN CONSISTS

Robin Jorimann
 

Thank you

Last summer it was very unusual to see an Allegra on the Landquart - Davos - Filisur route.
Three coaches (which Allegras are) are inadequate for the Davos - Filisur shuttle. Everybody staying in Davos at least one night gets a free public transport pass which includes Davos to Filisur.
There are also more people cycling, usually in groups, these days

Re: Big order for new units from MGB

Toma Bacic
 

For what reason RhB vehicles were going to Andermatt? Also which vehicles and when?

Thank you and regards
Toma

Re: Big order for new units from MGB

Guerbetaler
 

Am 12.02.2020 um 22:06 schrieb Toma Bacic:
For what reason RhB vehicles were going to Andermatt? Also which
vehicles and when?
-------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [SwissRail] RhB loco on the MGB
Datum: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:12:22 +0200
Von: Markus <guerbetaler@...>
An: SwissRail@...

Malcolm Hardy-Randall wrote:
In April 2005 RhB Ge 4/4 III 651 piloted MGB HGe 4/4 II 106 on a
special Panoramawagen train from Disentis to Oberalp. Was the RhB
loco fitted for rack operation or if not, is it just allowed to
operate on the MGB route in the pilot loco capacity only?
RhB locos were transferred over the Oberalp in different occasions.
Condition is, that rack-equipped motive power is in the train and
the RhB loco must be uphill from this. What we have recorded
until now is this:

1984 green Ge 4/4I 603 "Badus" and Ge 4/4II 617 "Ilanz" were
brought to Brig from where they were transported to Landquart
because an avalanche had interrupted the line to Disentis.
(SER 2/84)

22/26 Oct 1984 red Ge 4/4 II 628 was transferred to Realp for
track tests in Furka Tunnel (SER 5/84) These tests had been
repeated on two occasions, at least:

25 Oct 1985 Ge 4/4 II 6?? (EA12/85)
might have been 631 or 632.

18 Sep 1986 Ge 4/4 II 629 (EA 11/86)

1987 after heavy rainfalls the line was interrupted and RhB sent
a Tm for repair works to Disentis via Visp (EA 12/87)

15 May 1995 Ge 4/4 III 643 test rides in Furka tunnel preparing
Vereina car transports (SER 6/95)

April 2005 finally Ge 4/4 III 651 "75 Jahre Glacier Express"

Apart from this, FO/MGB's own adhesion-only Ge 4/4 81 and
82 were/are frequent guests on the Oberalp. But never
alone ...

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: RhB BASIC TRAIN CONSISTS

Guerbetaler
 

Am 12.02.2020 um 21:39 schrieb Robin Jorimann:
Davos in the summer - am I likely to see them there then?
You might see them or you might not. IF you see them, then my list will be obsolete!

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Big order for new units from MGB

Guerbetaler
 

Am 12.02.2020 um 18:28 schrieb tudor erich via Groups.Io:
Not all traffic over the Oberalp is rack equipped historically.
The rule is that the last vehicle must have a cogwheel and that every second vehicle must have a cogwheel.

Ge 4/4 81 and 82 have often been in Brig and in Landquart. RhB locomotives came to Andermatt several times. The locomotive or EMU must work in adhesion mode and be accompanied by a rack locomotive or motor coach on the valley side, e.g.
Disentis - Oberalp Ge 4/4" leading, Deh behind
Oberalp - Andermatt Deh leading, Ge 4/4" behind

If I'm not mistaken, a SPATZ may be behind an ADLER when working in MU over the Brünig.

An adhesion-only ORION will be allowed to work over rack sections in MU with a rack ORION.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Big order for new units from MGB

tudor erich
 

I`m sure that with a rack equipped piece of rolling stock as well (or several) or rack equipped motive power all would be well. Not all traffic over the Oberalp is rack equipped historically.
Bernard

Re: RhB BASIC TRAIN CONSISTS

Robin Jorimann
 

This is very interesting information.
Thank you
Is there any news on the introduction of the Capricorns?
I might be going to Davos in the summer - am I likely to see them there then?
Thank you