Date   
Re: Zurich Tram network & ticket

Keith Hookham
 

Many thanks for this information and to Markus for the info for the zones
and costs. Yes I have a half fare card which is really useful.
That is all the information I require (for now at least).
The maps on the ZVV site are not useful at all with all the clutter of
buses, S bahns etc. The maps on the Gleisplanweb though are really good
though giving out great plans and even gives platform details and sidings.
Superb.
Again many thanks.
Cheers Keith

Re: SBB Cargo locos

csipromo
 

I guess that a SBBIN train would be a train that was being hauled from Point of Origin (PoO) to Destination by SBBIN. This could be hauled by MS locomotives from departure to destination or by a combination of loks (if required). This could be a ES64F4 (MRCE), a BR 193 (LokRoll). If it was a BR 185 (MRCE), Re 421, Re 482, a lok change would be required at least for the TI network (Italy). SBBIN would be under contract to pick up and deliver that consist.
Would SBBIN still handle a train which was brought to Basel Bad/Muttenz by a foreign operator (DB/Lineas-SNCB/ERS/etc) or would that train be handled by SBBC?

Regards

Mike C

Re: SBB Cargo locos

gordonwis
 

I may be wrong, but when I am out and about as I was by the Lötschberg for my unexpected extended stay in April, it is my understanding that if I see a long distance container or swap body train, hauled by an Re10/10, that will be a SBBC IN working. If the next thing I see is a single Re6/6 , Re4/4 or combination of same on a few wagons, that will be an internal SBBC working. For some time now I have been expecting to see fewer 'international' type workings* with Re6/6 or Re10/10 - which has indeed happened and I've seen more and more Vectrons. I reported on such workings as I saw in April recently on the group.

* That is why I was extra pleased in April when I saw and photted the Re10/10 'international' workings - the in the photos

Two photos attached to illustrate my point, one is surely SBBC IN, the other SBBC 'domestic' On Tuesday, 23 July 2019,

Re: Zurich Tram network & ticket

Geoffrey Fischer
 

Have you tried the ZVV website? I found an extensive map collection there a
couple of years ago.

Re: SBB Cargo locos

Guerbetaler
 

Am 23.07.2019 um 19:31 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
I was not aware of the breakdown of the fleet between SBBC and SBBIN.
I assumed that all of the inland loks were with SBBC.
This is not a breakdown of the fleet. But SBBC lends some locomotives to SBBIN. Until now SBBIN doesn't own any vehicle and they haven't registered a single vehicle for the comapny. In the Swiss rolling stock register you can't find SBBIN, only SBBC.

Both SBBC and SBBIN have a licence for track access within Switzerland. These licences are valid on Swiss territory plus a few kilometers in neighbouring countries. See the recent discussion about "Grenzbetriebsstrecken".

SBB Cargo Deutschland doesn't have an official acronym of any sort. If you google for them, you will arrive on the SBBIN website. It mentions also SBBCI as an address for SBBIN.

But I don't know the contracts between these companies and they aren't public.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: SBB Cargo locos

Heléna Moretti
 

Csipromo asked “I was not aware of the breakdown of the fleet between SBBC and SBBIN. I assumed that all of the inland loks were with SBBC.
I knew that the Re 482 were primarily used by SBBCD, along with a number of MRCE 185 and a few ELL 193s. The Re 474 and 484 were shared by SBBC and SBBCI.
SBBIN was operating the leased MRCE ES64F4, ELL and LokRoll 193 MS units.
Can anybody provide a breakdown of which Re 6/6 belong to SBBIN and what trains they are used for?”
SBB International Re6/6:

620.062-072; 620.074-089

Re4/4”

11162/3, 420.165, 11256, 11261, 11267, 11280/1, 11286, 11305, 11319/320, 11324, 11326-332, 11334-349

Re4/4”’

11350/1, 11358

Re421

421.385-388 and perhaps 390.

That is how it was in January 2019 but may well have evolved

Helena

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: SBB Cargo locos

csipromo
 

One more silly Vectron/SBBIN question... Would it not make sense to order locomotives that in addtion to DACHINL can also operate in Belgium? It would be logical to me that SBBIN would also like to have access to ports like Antwerp, Zeebrugge and Ghent.

Regards

Mike C

Re: SBB Cargo locos

csipromo
 

I was not aware of the breakdown of the fleet between SBBC and SBBIN. I assumed that all of the inland loks were with SBBC.
I knew that the Re 482 were primarily used by SBBCD, along with a number of MRCE 185 and a few ELL 193s. The Re 474 and 484 were shared by SBBC and SBBCI.
SBBIN was operating the leased MRCE ES64F4, ELL and LokRoll 193 MS units.

Can anybody provide a breakdown of which Re 6/6 belong to SBBIN and what trains they are used for?

I thought that SBBCD used 482 to bring cargo from DE into CH. It was then taken south by SBBC and handed over to SBBCI for delivery. It seems that it is much more complex.

I knew SBB(P) was slowly taking the Re 4/4II (first series) out of operation, with the number expected to jump once lok pulled consists are replaced by the new Giruno and Twindexx units. The new consists for Zurich-Stuttgart (146 Twindexx DE) and Zurich-Munich will also lead to reduced Re 420 requirements.

Regards

Mike C

Re: SBB Cargo locos

csipromo
 

I have to stop using SBBCI for SBB Cargo International. I keep forgetting that SBBCI stands for SBB Cargo Italia

Where do SBBIN, SBBCI, SBB Cargo Deutschland begin and end?
A train from Holland to Italy which passes through Germany, Switzerland and Italy would be run by which entity?

Regards

Mike C

Re: SBB Cargo locos

Heléna Moretti
 

Am 23.07.2019 um 17:40 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
SBB Cargo has something like 80 Re 620 and probably around 150-200 Re 420/430.
Markus replied: SBB cargo and SBB Cargo International are two companies who don't have
the same needs. SBBC is working within Switzerland and can make very
good use of locomotives without ability for Germany and Italy.
SBB Cargo International has 27 x Re6/6 and 42 x Re4/4”, Re421 and Re4/4”’, if each Vectron replaces an Re10/10 combination you can see how twenty of them will have a substantial effect on the International fleet of the older classes. SBB Cargo Domestic may take some of the ETCS-fitted Re6/6 as they become spare, this will save them having to use 3 x Re4/4” combinations. But with SBB-Passenger also set to shed many of its non ETCS-fitted Re4/4” with the introduction of new units, the 420 fleet could take a lot of tap over the next year.

Auguri
Helena


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: SBB Cargo locos

Guerbetaler
 

Am 23.07.2019 um 17:40 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
SBB Cargo has something like 80 Re 620 and probably around 150-200 Re 420/430.
SBB cargo and SBB Cargo International are two companies who don't have the same needs. SBBC is working within Switzerland and can make very good use of locomotives without ability for Germany and Italy.

If SBBCI eventually
SBB Cargo Italia doesn't need any ac locomotive.

SBBIN uses a certain number of SBBC locomotives and it seems that they will stop to use Re 420/430/620

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: SBB Cargo locos

csipromo
 

Martin (Baumann),

SBB Cargo has something like 80 Re 620 and probably around 150-200 Re 420/430.
I know that the Re 420/430 are the oldest running in the fleet, with the Re 620 a few years younger than the oldest, but it does not seem to me that 20 additional loks, even with the option for an additional 20, will replace 230-280 loks, especially when you consider that SBBCI wants this new equipment to increase it's capacity in NL and perhaps BE as well as on the north-south axis.
If SBBCI eventually got hold of the Re 460 fleet, that would go a long way towards filling the numbers of the older fleet as they are retired.
What the Vectron allows SBBCI to do is to operate a train along the entire route from the Channel or North Sea port to destination in Italy, eliminating the need for locomotive change along the way.

The other things that I am wondering about is when do the leases for the ES64F4 (MRCE) and Vectron (ELL) terminate?
I have also noted that the last three or four deals have all been with Siemens. Has the SBB decided that Bombardier products no longer meet their criteria?
There was a period after the RABe514 where it seemed that the SBB was sour on Siemens, but the experience with the EuroSprinter seems to have repaired that.
Has the SBB evaluated the 187/188 and was there a determination that Bombardier was not competitive for their needs?

Regards

Mike C

Re: SBB Cargo locos

Martin Baumann
 

The CEO of Cargo International says the new Vectrons "are almost completely replacing our old Re 620 and Re 420 fleet".

In addition to the 20 announced yesterday there is an option for 20 more

Re: Zurich Tram network & ticket

Chris Wood
 

Thomas writes:

http://www.gleisplanweb.eu/Maps/Zuerich.pdf has an excellent track map of the Zurich tram network, which doesn't include the annoying bus lines. It was last updated 12.2017.
They also have an interactive viewer (at http://www.gleisplanweb.eu/Viewer-e.php?Map=Zuerich&Index=1) that I find easier and faster to navigate around online.

OpenStreetMap are also pretty good for track diagrams, although they seem to have rather jumped the gun on the Limmatalbahn, showing the whole thing as far as Schlieren as complete.

Re: Zurich Tram network & ticket

Thomas
 

http://www.gleisplanweb.eu/Maps/Zuerich.pdf has an excellent track map of the Zurich tram network, which doesn't include the annoying bus lines. It was last updated 12.2017.

Rgds, Thomas.

Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

csipromo
 

I went through my notes and I must apologize. The Bombardier units were the Domino NPZ set from Olten to Sursee and the BLS unit from Luzern to Bern. From Bern, I then rode to Interlaken and then on to Meiringen and back to Brienz. The ZB trains (SPATZ and Adler) were both Stadler products. I had not written down on my smartphone the details of the Luzern to Bern section and had only noted that in the messages that I sent myself by email every evening.

Regards

Mike C

Re: Border crossing

Guerbetaler
 

Am 22.07.2019 um 19:24 schrieb stephenhorobin via Groups.Io:
The reason is some places retain their German names is that are or
were in the Department of Alsace which historically is a Germanic
region with its own recognised dialect.
However, France has for a long time avoided that schooling was in German. They sent their teachers, policemen, railwaymen, officers etc., which mostly didn't understand German. Thus, much of the original language tradition has gone. And all important names were "frenchized". Strassburg became Strasbourg and Mülhausen is now Mulhouse.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Zurich Tram network & ticket

Guerbetaler
 

Before opening of the Limmattalbahn, the only trams leaving Zürich are the Glattalbahn lines 10, 11 and 12. Unfortunately line 12 comes in a colour near the bus lines and isn't easy to detect. But in the zone map you can see (dashed line) that it is all within zone 121. Zürich zone 110 counts twice, so to cover all tram lines you need a three zone ticket 110/121.

If you count Forchbahn S18 as a tram, then you have to add 140, 130 and 142, so a six zone ticket.

Am 22.07.2019 um 23:01 schrieb Keith Hookham:
And on that matter I have also tried to work out the best day ticket
to get after 0900 would be this one?
<https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/en/travelcards-and-tickets/tickets/9-oclock-daypass.html>??
valid for all zones after 9 o'clock (weekends all day) CHF 26.00

Or would it be better to get a
<https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/en/travelcards-and-tickets/tickets/daypass.html>
and if so would it just be a 3 zones ticket to cover the trams? Must
admit that due not being able to find a brilliant map for the trams
then finding the ZVV site is not brilliant for me.
3 zones 24 hours CHF 13.60
6 zones 24 hours CHF 26.00

If you can travel half fare, then it's 50% of the above prices.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Zurich Tram network & ticket

csipromo
 

I found a complete network map of tram, bus and ZVV network on the zvv.ch website.
I also picked up a printed edition of the map at the information booth at Zurich HB when I arrived there.

I was travelling on the Swiss Rail Pass and it covered unlimited travel on the ZVV network during the period of validity.
Swiss Rail Pass also covered SZU, SBB and SOB, BLS, etc...

https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/fahrplan/liniennetz.html
https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/zonen.html
https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/en/timetable/network-maps.html

Passes: https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos.html

Regards

Mike C

Re: SBB Cargo locos

csipromo
 

Hopefully one of the new Vectrons will mean the return of the Nightpiercer, as that was a striking livery.
I guess that these will replace a number of older loks. Will it be the Re 4/4II/III (420/421/430)and Re 6/6 (620) or will it be that the comparatively slower (although newer) Re 482 will be sold off? I could see the 482 being sold to German or Austrian operators who are looking for machines for Austria, Germany and Switzerland only.

Regards

Mike C