Date   
Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

Martin Baumann
 
Edited

The equipment at Au:

SBB Te I 955 SLM 3865-MFO 1945 had been used for parts by SOB

SBB Te I 959 SLM 3990-MFO 1949 959 was SOB 52 after SBB

SBB 50 85 39-03 167-6 (AB4Ü 4108)

SBB 50 85 39-03 187-4 (AB4Ü 4128)

BLS 50 63 93-03 008-1 (D2 919)

Re: ZVV new S20 services with Lion

Martin Baumann
 

The diversion of LION sets to the S20 means that the diagrams starting 0638 ex Zürich (4808) and 0653 ex Aarau (4809) are now worked by pairs of Re 450

Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

csipromo
 

I travelled from Brienz to Interlaken one night around 2230. The train was one of the SPATZ type trainsets
I rode the ZB from Interlaken to Meiringen and back to Brienz. The first train (to Meiringen) was a SPATZ. The train back to Brienz was the Luzern-Interlaken Express. I then took a train back to Interlaken again at night. The train was one of the SPATZ again.
Finally, I took the train from Interlaken Ost to Luzern, once again on the Luzern-Interlaken Express. I spent the final trip in the Bistro coach.

On my trip, there were two times that I saw Bombardier plaques in side coaches. The first was a INOVA coach in a Domino trainset between Olten and Sursee.
The second was one of the ZB trains. It may have been the Bistro coach of the LIE or the coach adjacent to it. The only other time I ran into the Bombardier logo was on the side of the RABe 500.

Regards

Mike C

Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

Guerbetaler
 

Am 18.07.2019 um 19:24 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
I travelled from Brienz to Interlaken one night around 2230.
SPATZ trainsets are no longer used on the Interlaken side. Normal assignment is an ABeh 160 or 161 (FINK).
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZB_ABeh_160/161>
Replacement consist is a HGe with some B and an ABt

On my trip, there were two times that I saw Bombardier plaques in
side coaches. The first was a INOVA coach in a Domino trainset
between Olten and Sursee. The second was one of the ZB trains. It may
have been the Bistro coach of the LIE or the coach adjacent to it.
There is one combination that doesn't exist and that is Zentralbahn and Bombardier. You can't find the name Bombardier in the zb rolling stock list.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: ETR 610 Query

Guerbetaler
 

Am 18.07.2019 um 00:13 schrieb csipromo:
I saw at least one Freccio Argento ETR 610 with yellow UIC numbers
which were 93 85 X 610... I also saw at least two trainsets which did
not have these larger numbers on the coach sides.
I saw at least one SBB unit which had CH-SBB and I-TI markings.
This is incorrect. But exists.

The other SBB units had 93 85 5 numbering but were not class 610. May
have been RABe 503 (2nd series)
Numbering of the 26 ETR-610, of which 7 are owned by TI and 19 by SBB,
is as follows:

First delivery, 14 trains:

93 85 5 610 001-014 as set number, single vehicles carry numbers
93 85 5 610 X01-X14, where X is 1 ... 7 beginning at the first class end
and going to second class end.

01, 02, 03, 04, 08, 11, 12 = CH-TI
05, 06, 07, 09, 10, 13, 14 = CH-SBB

Second and third delivery, 8+4 trains:

93 85 0 503 011-022 as set numbers, single vehicles carry numbers
93 85 X 503 011-022, where X is 1 and 2 for the cab cars and 3 ... 7 for
the intermediate cars, starting at the second class end.

In other words, the sets are composed like this:

610 = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
503 = 1 7 6 5 4 3 2

It is planned to renumber the 7 SBB-ETR-610 to 501 001-007 when they
will be slightly rebuilt to be like the second and third delivery.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: ETR 610 Query

csipromo
 

On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 10:15 PM, Guerbetaler wrote:


It is planned to renumber the 7 SBB-ETR-610 to 501 001-007 when they
will be slightly rebuilt to be like the second and third delivery.
Do you mean 503? 501 is the number assigned to the Stadler Giruno trainsets.

Regards

Mike C

Re: ETR 610 Query

Guerbetaler
 

Am 18.07.2019 um 22:45 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
Do you mean 503? 501 is the number assigned to the Stadler Giruno trainsets.
yes, of course. sorry

Markus

ETR 610 and RABe 503 numbering (revised)

Guerbetaler
 

Numbering of the 26 ETR-610, of which 7 are owned by TI and 19 by SBB,
is as follows:

First delivery, 14 trains:

93 85 5 610 001-014 as set number, single vehicles carry numbers
93 85 5 610 X01-X14, where X is 1 ... 7 beginning at the first class end
and going to second class end.

01, 02, 03, 04, 08, 11, 12 = CH-TI
05, 06, 07, 09, 10, 13, 14 = CH-SBB

Second and third delivery, 8+4 trains:

93 85 0 503 011-022 as set numbers, single vehicles carry numbers
93 85 X 503 011-022, where X is 1 and 2 for the cab cars and 3 ... 7 for
the intermediate cars, starting at the second class end.

In other words, the sets are composed like this:

610 = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
503 = 1 7 6 5 4 3 2

It is planned to renumber the 7 SBB-ETR-610 to 503 001-007 when they
will be slightly rebuilt to be like the second and third delivery.

Markus, Gürbetal

SERSA locomotive 'Erwin'

Alan Kent <alankent46@...>
 

Hello
In June I saw Henschel locomotive 30336/62 in the contractors yard in Bologna. It was painted yellow with no other identification apart from the Henschel plate.
Given that this fabrik number relates to SERSA 237 952 'Erwin', can anyone confirm that it is no longer a SERSA locomotive, please?
Thank you

Re: SERSA locomotive 'Erwin'

Guerbetaler
 

Am 18.07.2019 um 23:13 schrieb Alan Kent via Groups.Io:
Given that this fabrik number relates to SERSA 237 952 'Erwin', can
anyone confirm that it is no longer a SERSA locomotive, please?
No, I can't confirm this. The swiss vehicle register still says, number 98 85 5237 952 is a SERSA locomotive, as you can see with a simple queryn on <www.rollingstockregister.ch>. Well, maybe that SERSA forgot to change the entry....

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

Thomas
 

On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:18 AM, Guerbetaler wrote:

Am 18.07.2019 um 19:24 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
I travelled from Brienz to Interlaken one night around 2230.
SPATZ trainsets are no longer used on the Interlaken side. Normal
assignment is an ABeh 160 or 161 (FINK).
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZB_ABeh_160/161>
Replacement consist is a HGe with some B and an ABt
Normal assignement on the Interlaken side is currently two SPATZ. On 16.07.2019 it was ABe 130 130 003 and 010, with HGe 101 967 as Meiringen replacement consist.

On July 18, 2019, csipromo wrote:
On my trip, there were two times that I saw Bombardier plaques in
side coaches. The first was a INOVA coach in a Domino trainset
between Olten and Sursee. The second was one of the ZB trains. It may
have been the Bistro coach of the LIE or the coach adjacent to it.
I can assure you that the WR 150 Bistro coaches still had Stadler plates three days ago.

Rgds, Thomas.

Re: Zürich Tram line 2

Chris Wood
 

Martin Baumann writes:

Kappeli to Farbhof closed at end of traffic 12.07.2019 and will not see timetabled trams again until 02.09.
Andrew Moglestue writes:

You rightly say the section will not see timetabled trams. Of course there will still be tram movements as this line accesses the main workshops.
Kappeli is the stop just to the east of the access to the main workshops. As it doesn't have a turning loop, then I guess that the intention must be to terminate the service trams either by using the depot access as a Y, or by using a loop within the workshops themselves. If I'm right, then the section up to the workshop will see more trams than just those needing the services of the workshops.

Or I have I made an assumption too far.

Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

Guerbetaler
 

Am 19.07.2019 um 10:33 schrieb Thomas:
Normal assignement on the Interlaken side is currently two SPATZ. On
16.07.2019 it was ABe 130 130 003 and 010, with HGe 101 967 as
Meiringen replacement consist.
Thank you for the update. Do you know for how long SPATZen are back on the Interlaken side?

Markus

Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

Derek Higham
 

Sorry to correct you Marcus, but this week the Interlaken Meiringen shuttle has been 130 010 until today when 130 003 has replaced it.
On a geographically related subject, BOB 311 has been out 3 days (Tuesday to Thursday) this week on a Lauterbrunnen diagram, although not without incident as the 10:02 Lauterbrunnen departure it should have worked on Wednesday was declared a technical failure and cancelled.
CheersD

Re: SERSA locomotive 'Erwin'

Alan Kent <alankent46@...>
 

Hello
Thank you - perhaps my reading of the fabric number was wrong!
Alan

Re: Just back from some travels and have a few questions

Thomas
 

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 02:45 PM, Guerbetaler wrote:

Thank you for the update. Do you know for how long SPATZen are back on
the Interlaken side?
Sorry, I don't know.

Rgds, Thomas.

German Catenary and Signalling in Basle

Clive Dean
 

Having watched this cab ride video on You Tube, when at 3.15 the train enters Switzerland, I'd like to ask why the catenary is of German type until the border, with the signalling changing near but not at the border. https://youtu.be/u5ZmrTJs47Q?t=195. Is this historical due to the builder of the railway, or for some other reason. At most country borders, but not all by any means, the catenary usually changes at the border and the signalling at the station at which most loco changes (if any) are made.

Re: German Catenary and Signalling in Basle

Guerbetaler
 

Am 20.07.2019 um 15:39 schrieb Clive Dean:
Having watched this cab ride video on You Tube, when at 3.15 the
train enters Switzerland, I'd like to ask why the catenary is of
German type until the border, with the signalling changing near but
not at the border. https://youtu.be/u5ZmrTJs47Q?t=195. Is this
historical due to the builder of the railway, or for some other
reason. At most country borders, but not all by any means, the
catenary usually changes at the border and the signalling at the
station at which most loco changes (if any) are made.
The train doesn't enter Switzerland at 3:15. The railway border is earlier than the road border. See
<https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en&topic=ech&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo.pixelkarte-farbe&E=2612513&N=1270481&zoom=9&crosshair=marker>

And the situation around Basel is quite complicated, because, thanks to a common voltage, there is not a single point of change. There is rather a border area, which has been defined in official contracts between Germany and Switzerland. These are the so called "Grenzbetriebsstrecken" which allow a locomotive approved for Germany to reach Muttenz and Basel SBB and allow a locomotive approved for Switzerland to reach Weil am Rhein. Thus, the transition can be made either in Weil or in Muttenz or even in Basel Bad and for passenger trains and in exceptional cases for freight trains in Basel SBB.

This requires the Swiss Infrastructure Manager to have Indusi in addition to EuroZUB/ETCS L1LS into Muttenz and it requires the German Infrastructure Manager (IM) to have EuroZUB/ETCS L1LS in addition to Indusi into Weil am Rhein.

Now, the German IM is always DB Netz. But, because the infrastrucutre to Basel Bad until the Rhine bridge is owned by the German State, IM for this Swiss infrastructure is also DB Netz. They have to obey Swiss laws but generally build to German standards.

At 2:40 you can see tow Eurobalises for EuroZUB/ETCS L1LS followed by Indusi on the right hand side, again at 2:44/2:45, at 3:44/3:50 and at 4:08/4:12.

Markus, Gürbetal

Re: German Catenary and Signalling in Basle

Clive Dean
 

Thanks for that comprehensive reply Markus. Could I ask why the infrastructure until the Rhine Bridge is owned by the German state?

Re: German Catenary and Signalling in Basle

Guerbetaler
 

Am 20.07.2019 um 23:07 schrieb Clive Dean:
Could I ask why the infrastructure until the Rhine Bridge is owned by
the German state?
The Badische Staaatsbahn at that time was building a line up the right side of the Rhine (sides on rivers are always looking in the direction the water flows). In Basel it reached Swiss territory as the border exceptionally doesn't follow the river. In 1852 a - still valid - treaty between the Swiss Confederation and the state of Baden fixed the important questions. They built their own station on the right side of the Rhein, in Kleinbasel as it is called, opened 1855. Construction was immediately continued in the direction of Singen/Konstanz and the line also crosses the canton of Schaffhausen, another Swiss area on the right side of the Rhine. This was opened in 1863. Already in 1859 a bridge was built between Waldshut and Koblenz, which was the first connection between the German and the Swiss network.

Only in 1873, 18 years later, a connection was built between Basel Badischer Bahnhof and Basel Centralbahnhof (the station of SCB).

The Badische Staatsbahn was integrated into the Deutsche Reichsbahn and became Deutsche Bundesbahn after WW II. When DB became a separate company, Germany didn't transfer the infrastructure in Switzerland, but contracted DB Netz AG to operate it. Thus the very special status of this infrastructure. Today the swiss confederation subsidizes operation and maintenance of this German infrastructure. On the other hand, Swiss track access charges are valid, not the German system. And all this based on a treaty of 1852!

<https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/18520001/index.html>
(only available in German, French and Italian)

To add another little oddity: The Badische Staatsbahn had started to build its network with a gauge of 1600 mm (5'3") and had reached Weil am Rhein, when it was decided to standardize the gauge, which was effectuated in 1854/55, just before crossing the border into Switzerland. So we never had 1600 mm in Switzerland...

Markus, Gürbetal