Topics

Illinois Central 0-10-0 Locomotives

Mark Foster
 

From the info available to me it appears that the IC had seven 0-10-0 engines. Five of these were originally Alabama & Vicksburg 2-10-2's and were built by Baldwin between 1919-1922. These were transferred to the IC roster in 1926 and between 1938 and 1941 were rebuilt by the IC into 0-10-0's and numbered 3602-3606. If any of this is wrong I'd appreciate receiving corrections.

I believe the other two engines were IC No's. 3600 and 3601 and remember having been told they were originally built for the VS&P and/or the Gulf & Ship Island but have been unable to confirm this. If either or both of these two were former G&SI engines I think they may have originally been oil burners. Any info about the history of these two engines would be greatly appreciated.

Mark Foster

Jerry Dowling
 

Mark,

An article on 0-10-0 on the Classic Trains website states:

"Only a handful of other railroads owned 0-10-0s. Illinois Central inherited two Baldwin 0-10-0s after its 1926 acquisition of the Alabama & Vicksburg. IC then converted five A&V 2-10-2s into additional 0-10-0s assigned to Chicago's Markham Yard."

Does this correspond with your info?

Jerry

--- In steamlocorosters@..., "kramsf" <kramsf@...> wrote:

From the info available to me it appears that the IC had seven 0-10-0 engines. Five of these were originally Alabama & Vicksburg 2-10-2's and were built by Baldwin between 1919-1922. These were transferred to the IC roster in 1926 and between 1938 and 1941 were rebuilt by the IC into 0-10-0's and numbered 3602-3606. If any of this is wrong I'd appreciate receiving corrections.

I believe the other two engines were IC No's. 3600 and 3601 and remember having been told they were originally built for the VS&P and/or the Gulf & Ship Island but have been unable to confirm this. If either or both of these two were former G&SI engines I think they may have originally been oil burners. Any info about the history of these two engines would be greatly appreciated.

Mark Foster

Logtrain
 

Mark and All:

Baldwin built the two Alabama & Vicksburg 0-10-0's for use on the incline leading to the car ferry at Vicksburg. They were indeed built as oil burners. They became I.C. #3400 and #3401, and later #3600 adn #3601. The I.C. converted them to coal. These were HUGE machines, and their boilers were large enough to require an offset bell mount for clearance! I have photos of them in all three versions. Let me know if you are interested in seeing them.

The A&V also had 2-10-2's (Baldwins, coal burners, Young valve gear). Sister VS&P ran across the flatlands of Louisiana to Shreveport, so could do with light Baldwin 2-8-2's. But the heaver grades encountered crossing Mississippi from West to East (across the flow of streams and rivers) required the additional tractive effort of the 2-10-2's. The I.C. quickly converted the former A&V 2-10-2's to 0-10-0's. Have photos of these too if you need them.

The Gulf & Ship Island never had an oil burner. All their steam locomotives burned coal.

David Price

--- In steamlocorosters@..., "kramsf" <kramsf@...> wrote:

From the info available to me it appears that the IC had seven 0-10-0 engines. Five of these were originally Alabama & Vicksburg 2-10-2's and were built by Baldwin between 1919-1922. These were transferred to the IC roster in 1926 and between 1938 and 1941 were rebuilt by the IC into 0-10-0's and numbered 3602-3606. If any of this is wrong I'd appreciate receiving corrections.

I believe the other two engines were IC No's. 3600 and 3601 and remember having been told they were originally built for the VS&P and/or the Gulf & Ship Island but have been unable to confirm this. If either or both of these two were former G&SI engines I think they may have originally been oil burners. Any info about the history of these two engines would be greatly appreciated.

Mark Foster

Mark Foster
 

David and Jerry, thanks for the info about the IC 0-10-0's. Apparently the IC replaced the original tenders of all seven engines. I believe IC No's 3600 & 3601 had conventional tenders while earlier photos show both had small slope-back tenders at the time they were A&V engines and worked the Vicksburg ferry ramp. Builders photos of A&V 2-10-2 No's. 270 and 273 show them with relatively small conventional tenders and I assume the other three had similar tenders. After the IC rebuilt them to 0-10-0's and renumbered them 3602-3606 I believe all five had Vanderbilt type tenders. Am I correct in this regard?
 
I questioned if any of these IC engines originally belonged to the G&SI. My first time up in a locomotive cab was in 1940 when I came upon No. 3605 which was on the ground after failing to negotiate a curve on the sidetrack leading to a coal and lumber yard in Homewood, IL about a mile south of the IC Markham Yard leads. The crew was waiting for another engine and re-railing frogs to get the 3605 back on the rails and invited me up into the cab. Needless to say I was awed by the many valves, gauges, etc. There was a metal plate mounted on the backhead which I distinctly remember read "Gulf & Ship Island Railroad". I didn't know it at the time but later when I learned about such things I came to realize it was an equipment trust plate. In response to one of my many questions, the engineer said the 3605 had been a G&SI engine before coming to the IC. What could the explanation be of this seeming conflict with the historical info you provided  about this particular locomotive? 
 
Mark
 
  

From: David
To: steamlocorosters@...
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [steamlocorosters] Re: Illinois Central 0-10-0 Locomotives
 
Mark and All:

Baldwin built the two Alabama & Vicksburg 0-10-0's for use on the incline leading to the car ferry at Vicksburg. They were indeed built as oil burners. They became I.C. #3400 and #3401, and later #3600 adn #3601. The I.C. converted them to coal. These were HUGE machines, and their boilers were large enough to require an offset bell mount for clearance! I have photos of them in all three versions. Let me know if you are interested in seeing them.

The A&V also had 2-10-2's (Baldwins, coal burners, Young valve gear). Sister VS&P ran across the flatlands of Louisiana to Shreveport, so could do with light Baldwin 2-8-2's. But the heaver grades encountered crossing Mississippi from West to East (across the flow of streams and rivers) required the additional tractive effort of the 2-10-2's. The I.C. quickly converted the former A&V 2-10-2's to 0-10-0's. Have photos of these too if you need them.

The Gulf & Ship Island never had an oil burner. All their steam locomotives burned coal.

David Price

--- In mailto:steamlocorosters%40yahoogroups.com, "kramsf" wrote:
>
> From the info available to me it appears that the IC had seven 0-10-0 engines. Five of these were originally Alabama & Vicksburg 2-10-2's and were built by Baldwin between 1919-1922. These were transferred to the IC roster in 1926 and between 1938 and 1941 were rebuilt by the IC into 0-10-0's and numbered 3602-3606. If any of this is wrong I'd appreciate receiving corrections.
>
> I believe the other two engines were IC No's. 3600 and 3601 and remember having been told they were originally built for the VS&P and/or the Gulf & Ship Island but have been unable to confirm this. If either or both of these two were former G&SI engines I think they may have originally been oil burners. Any info about the history of these two engines would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Mark Foster
>

Logtrain
 

Mark,

Very interesting about the trust plate on #3605.

I can say for sure that this engine never operated on the G&SI.
The likely explanaton probably has to do with corporate financing.

The IC acquired the G&SI in 1925, but kept it as a separate corporate identity until (I think) sometime in the 1940s. They immediately (in 1925) sent classic IC power to the G&SI and disposed of all G&SI motive power by late 1927 or early 1928...only a few remained in service after the IC takeover.

The A&V / VS&P were acquired in 1926 (about) and made part of the IC-owned Y&MV corporately. A&V and VS&P motive power was largely retained...at least the better engines. And the 2-10-2's were rebuilt in the great Paducah rebuild program and made 0-10-0's as we have already realized. I suspect that financing for the latter project was handled under the G&SI corporate identity which still was in place. So, the engines were always A&V-IC, but the financing for the rebuild was likely done using the G&SI identity.

One thing is sure. The G&SI never needed or used a 2-10-2. Nor an oil burning steam locomotive.

There is my best shot. It costs nothing, which is the exact monetary value of lots of my best shots!

David Price

--- In steamlocorosters@..., Mark Foster <kramsf@...> wrote:

David and Jerry, thanks for the info about the IC 0-10-0's. Apparently the IC replaced the original tenders of all seven engines. I believe IC No's 3600 & 3601 had conventional tenders while earlier photos show both had small slope-back tenders at the time they were A&V engines and worked the Vicksburg ferry ramp. Builders photos of A&V 2-10-2 No's. 270 and 273 show them with relatively small conventional tenders and I assume the other three had similar tenders. After the IC rebuilt them to 0-10-0's and renumbered them 3602-3606 I believe all five had Vanderbilt type tenders. Am I correct in this regard?
 
I questioned if any of these IC engines originally belonged to the G&SI. My first time up in a locomotive cab was in 1940 when I came upon No. 3605 which was on the ground after failing to negotiate a curve on the sidetrack leading to a coal and lumber yard in Homewood, IL about a mile south of the IC Markham Yard leads. The crew was waiting for another engine and re-railing frogs to get the 3605 back on the rails and invited me up into the cab. Needless to say I was awed by the many valves, gauges, etc. There was a metal plate mounted on the backhead which I distinctly remember read "Gulf & Ship Island Railroad". I didn't know it at the time but later when I learned about such things I came to realize it was an equipment trust plate. In response to one of my many questions, the engineer said the 3605 had been a G&SI engine before coming to the IC. What could the explanation be of this seeming conflict with the historical info you provided 
about this particular locomotive? 
 
Mark
 
  

________________________________
From: David <logtrain@...>
To: steamlocorosters@...
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [steamlocorosters] Re: Illinois Central 0-10-0 Locomotives


 

Mark and All:

Baldwin built the two Alabama & Vicksburg 0-10-0's for use on the incline leading to the car ferry at Vicksburg. They were indeed built as oil burners. They became I.C. #3400 and #3401, and later #3600 adn #3601. The I.C. converted them to coal. These were HUGE machines, and their boilers were large enough to require an offset bell mount for clearance! I have photos of them in all three versions. Let me know if you are interested in seeing them.

The A&V also had 2-10-2's (Baldwins, coal burners, Young valve gear). Sister VS&P ran across the flatlands of Louisiana to Shreveport, so could do with light Baldwin 2-8-2's. But the heaver grades encountered crossing Mississippi from West to East (across the flow of streams and rivers) required the additional tractive effort of the 2-10-2's. The I.C. quickly converted the former A&V 2-10-2's to 0-10-0's. Have photos of these too if you need them.

The Gulf & Ship Island never had an oil burner. All their steam locomotives burned coal.

David Price

--- In mailto:steamlocorosters%40yahoogroups.com, "kramsf" <kramsf@> wrote:

From the info available to me it appears that the IC had seven 0-10-0 engines. Five of these were originally Alabama & Vicksburg 2-10-2's and were built by Baldwin between 1919-1922. These were transferred to the IC roster in 1926 and between 1938 and 1941 were rebuilt by the IC into 0-10-0's and numbered 3602-3606. If any of this is wrong I'd appreciate receiving corrections.

I believe the other two engines were IC No's. 3600 and 3601 and remember having been told they were originally built for the VS&P and/or the Gulf & Ship Island but have been unable to confirm this. If either or both of these two were former G&SI engines I think they may have originally been oil burners. Any info about the history of these two engines would be greatly appreciated.

Mark Foster

Jerry Dowling
 

For anyone interested in these unusual locomotives, the DeGoyler Library (SMU) website has the erection cards and photos of A&V 430 and 431. Follow this link: http://digitalcollections.smu.edu/cdm/search/collection/rwy/searchterm/Ag2005.0003/field/all/mode/exact/conn/and/cosuppress/

Jerry

--- In steamlocorosters@..., "David" <logtrain@...> wrote:

Mark,

Very interesting about the trust plate on #3605.

I can say for sure that this engine never operated on the G&SI.
The likely explanaton probably has to do with corporate financing.

The IC acquired the G&SI in 1925, but kept it as a separate corporate identity until (I think) sometime in the 1940s. They immediately (in 1925) sent classic IC power to the G&SI and disposed of all G&SI motive power by late 1927 or early 1928...only a few remained in service after the IC takeover.

The A&V / VS&P were acquired in 1926 (about) and made part of the IC-owned Y&MV corporately. A&V and VS&P motive power was largely retained...at least the better engines. And the 2-10-2's were rebuilt in the great Paducah rebuild program and made 0-10-0's as we have already realized. I suspect that financing for the latter project was handled under the G&SI corporate identity which still was in place. So, the engines were always A&V-IC, but the financing for the rebuild was likely done using the G&SI identity.

One thing is sure. The G&SI never needed or used a 2-10-2. Nor an oil burning steam locomotive.

There is my best shot. It costs nothing, which is the exact monetary value of lots of my best shots!

David Price

--- In steamlocorosters@..., Mark Foster <kramsf@> wrote:

David and Jerry, thanks for the info about the IC 0-10-0's. Apparently the IC replaced the original tenders of all seven engines. I believe IC No's 3600 & 3601 had conventional tenders while earlier photos show both had small slope-back tenders at the time they were A&V engines and worked the Vicksburg ferry ramp. Builders photos of A&V 2-10-2 No's. 270 and 273 show them with relatively small conventional tenders and I assume the other three had similar tenders. After the IC rebuilt them to 0-10-0's and renumbered them 3602-3606 I believe all five had Vanderbilt type tenders. Am I correct in this regard?
 
I questioned if any of these IC engines originally belonged to the G&SI. My first time up in a locomotive cab was in 1940 when I came upon No. 3605 which was on the ground after failing to negotiate a curve on the sidetrack leading to a coal and lumber yard in Homewood, IL about a mile south of the IC Markham Yard leads. The crew was waiting for another engine and re-railing frogs to get the 3605 back on the rails and invited me up into the cab. Needless to say I was awed by the many valves, gauges, etc. There was a metal plate mounted on the backhead which I distinctly remember read "Gulf & Ship Island Railroad". I didn't know it at the time but later when I learned about such things I came to realize it was an equipment trust plate. In response to one of my many questions, the engineer said the 3605 had been a G&SI engine before coming to the IC. What could the explanation be of this seeming conflict with the historical info you provided 
about this particular locomotive? 
 
Mark
 
  

________________________________
From: David <logtrain@>
To: steamlocorosters@...
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: [steamlocorosters] Re: Illinois Central 0-10-0 Locomotives


 

Mark and All:

Baldwin built the two Alabama & Vicksburg 0-10-0's for use on the incline leading to the car ferry at Vicksburg. They were indeed built as oil burners. They became I.C. #3400 and #3401, and later #3600 adn #3601. The I.C. converted them to coal. These were HUGE machines, and their boilers were large enough to require an offset bell mount for clearance! I have photos of them in all three versions. Let me know if you are interested in seeing them.

The A&V also had 2-10-2's (Baldwins, coal burners, Young valve gear). Sister VS&P ran across the flatlands of Louisiana to Shreveport, so could do with light Baldwin 2-8-2's. But the heaver grades encountered crossing Mississippi from West to East (across the flow of streams and rivers) required the additional tractive effort of the 2-10-2's. The I.C. quickly converted the former A&V 2-10-2's to 0-10-0's. Have photos of these too if you need them.

The Gulf & Ship Island never had an oil burner. All their steam locomotives burned coal.

David Price

--- In mailto:steamlocorosters%40yahoogroups.com, "kramsf" <kramsf@> wrote:

From the info available to me it appears that the IC had seven 0-10-0 engines. Five of these were originally Alabama & Vicksburg 2-10-2's and were built by Baldwin between 1919-1922. These were transferred to the IC roster in 1926 and between 1938 and 1941 were rebuilt by the IC into 0-10-0's and numbered 3602-3606. If any of this is wrong I'd appreciate receiving corrections.

I believe the other two engines were IC No's. 3600 and 3601 and remember having been told they were originally built for the VS&P and/or the Gulf & Ship Island but have been unable to confirm this. If either or both of these two were former G&SI engines I think they may have originally been oil burners. Any info about the history of these two engines would be greatly appreciated.

Mark Foster