Removing a stuck brass compound nut


Rogan Creswick
 

I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg


Todd
 

If it's held in with a "draw" type screw/bolt, just insert a longer version of the same and tap on it to drive the brass nut out. Looks like yours uses that setup based on the recess.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Rick <vwrick@...>
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 8:14:14 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Removing a stuck brass compound nut
 
Remove the gib and take the compound off.  


david_g4000
 

If it is just a soft metal burr holding it up, perhaps fashion a slide hammer to screw in and give it some gentle knocks? That should knock the burr off and won't damage the casting bore.

On 4/4/2022 1:31 AM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg


William Nelson
 

I had the same problem. I don't remember exactly what I did to get it out but I do remember a hammer and lever with lots of bleep bleep bleep 🤬. It took quite a while of this and I was afraid I would break something but I couldn't see any other way at the time. In the end I got it out without damage and was able to reuse it. Today I would probably drill it out and replace. How about that slide hammer? 😀
--
Bill From Socal


wlw19958
 

Hi There,

If you can, try wedging the brass nut back down into the base
as far as you can and remove the gib.  Then you should be
able to lift the top slide enough to clear the nut and slide it off.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Rogan Creswick
 

Thanks for the suggestions.

The male dovetail is wider at its widest than the female dovetail's narrow point, so removing the gib and lifting it out does not work.  It has to slide.

There's no exposed threaded hole to attach a slide hammer to, the only threaded portion is the acme threaded (~3/8"?) hole for the feed screw -- I'm not ready to try hammering on *that* to get it out, and I don't have another acme rod sitting around to use as a sacrificial beater.

I'll see if I can get in there with a needle file tonight, and keep trying.  If all else fails, I should be able to fixture it in the mill, hold the nut in position with the feed screw, and drill / tap a small hole (say, 8-32, or 10-24) and rig an extractor with some pipe and all-thread.  

I haven't looked at getting a replacement nut yet; I've never seen an affordable acme nut, but maybe this is the exception :D

--Rogan

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 8:40 AM wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:
Hi There,

If you can, try wedging the brass nut back down into the base
as far as you can and remove the gib.  Then you should be
able to lift the top slide enough to clear the nut and slide it off.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


wlw19958
 

Hi There,

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 08:56 AM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
The male dovetail is wider at its widest than the female dovetail's narrow point, so removing the gib and lifting it out does not work.
I think you misunderstand what I was suggesting.

I know that removing the gib will not allow you to lift the top slide completely off.
I am suggesting if you wedge the nut back down into the base as much as you
can, then with the gib removed, you will be able to slide off the top slide give the
extra clearance gained by removing the gib.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Rogan Creswick
 

Hey Webb,

It also does not move far enough for that -- with the nut pushed as far as I can push it, and with the gib removed, the nut is still interfering by roughly 1/8".

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 9:02 AM wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:
Hi There,

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 08:56 AM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
The male dovetail is wider at its widest than the female dovetail's narrow point, so removing the gib and lifting it out does not work.
I think you misunderstand what I was suggesting.

I know that removing the gib will not allow you to lift the top slide completely off.
I am suggesting if you wedge the nut back down into the base as much as you
can, then with the gib removed, you will be able to slide off the top slide give the
extra clearance gained by removing the gib.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


William Nelson
 

New nuts are available for not to much $ on Ebay but they are made from 360 brass not bronze which I believe the originals are. I ordered one of the cross slide nuts that I used in a machining table and found the dimensions were off by about .005" big for the stem and .004" small for the retention pin. Seeing as I was making a whole new aluminum plate I just bored bigger and made a smaller pin. If you order one be prepared for a possible tolerance problem.
--
Bill From Socal


mike allen
 

        You need to separate the top slide from the compound . Loosen the gib screws & then slide it off & your in business . Carefully file the buy , you don't want to make the hole larger , if you do

        you defeat the purpose of replacing the nut .

        animal

On 4/3/2022 10:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg


Rogan Creswick
 

I've tried pushing and prodding, and filing any visible burrs, and I *think* the issue is a burr raised by the set screw, in an area that I can't reach with a file, because it won't clear the casting.

Unless anyone has a better idea tonight, I'll drill and tap a small thread hole in the bottom, and pull it out that way.

The attached pictures should show that it won't move far enough into the male portion of the dovetail to clear the casting in the other casting, even with the gib removed.  I've tried the opposite direction as well, and there isn't clearance in the cavity for the nut.


PXL_20220404_233429581.jpgPXL_20220404_233413053.jpg

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 10:16 AM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

        You need to separate the top slide from the compound . Loosen the gib screws & then slide it off & your in business . Carefully file the buy , you don't want to make the hole larger , if you do

        you defeat the purpose of replacing the nut .

        animal

On 4/3/2022 10:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg


Andrei
 

Sounds like the drill will be your friend


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Rogan Creswick <creswick@...>
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 8:31:55 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Removing a stuck brass compound nut
 
I've tried pushing and prodding, and filing any visible burrs, and I *think* the issue is a burr raised by the set screw, in an area that I can't reach with a file, because it won't clear the casting.

Unless anyone has a better idea tonight, I'll drill and tap a small thread hole in the bottom, and pull it out that way.

The attached pictures should show that it won't move far enough into the male portion of the dovetail to clear the casting in the other casting, even with the gib removed.  I've tried the opposite direction as well, and there isn't clearance in the cavity for the nut.


PXL_20220404_233429581.jpgPXL_20220404_233413053.jpg

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 10:16 AM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

        You need to separate the top slide from the compound . Loosen the gib screws & then slide it off & your in business . Carefully file the buy , you don't want to make the hole larger , if you do

        you defeat the purpose of replacing the nut .

        animal

On 4/3/2022 10:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg


John Byghtn3
 

My 2c

In the first photo (left), of the 2nd, 2-photo set, it appears you could insert a small, round shafted, screw driver in the lead/feed screw hole, and put a selection of washers to the left of the screw driver, and slowly pry it a little trying to maintain the most complete contact on the maximum number of threads inside the nut(to spread the load and minimize localized damage if it was to occur), then add another washer and gently pry again , repeat until it comes clear.... 
.
I am seeing that the setscrew is located in the small hole(removed now from the original "first, single, photo", original message), to the left of the nut in the photos' current reversed orientation...

Well maybe 3c now...
Good luck with your final solution.
.
John
.


On 4/4/2022 8:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I've tried pushing and prodding, and filing any visible burrs, and I *think* the issue is a burr raised by the set screw, in an area that I can't reach with a file, because it won't clear the casting.

Unless anyone has a better idea tonight, I'll drill and tap a small thread hole in the bottom, and pull it out that way.

The attached pictures should show that it won't move far enough into the male portion of the dovetail to clear the casting in the other casting, even with the gib removed.  I've tried the opposite direction as well, and there isn't clearance in the cavity for the nut.


PXL_20220404_233429581.jpgPXL_20220404_233413053.jpg

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 10:16 AM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

        You need to separate the top slide from the compound . Loosen the gib screws & then slide it off & your in business . Carefully file the buy , you don't want to make the hole larger , if you do

        you defeat the purpose of replacing the nut .

        animal

On 4/3/2022 10:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg



mike allen
 

        I can't remember how I did it on mine . I thought I just pulled the gib & then slid then apart . If your not a posting member here then sign up & ask here . ALot of these folks have forgotten more about SB lathes then alot of people know . Give it another day & ask these folks . I forgot is this a new to you lathe ? Was it in use when you got it ? Do you know if the felts are any good in the spindle ?

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/

    animal

On 4/4/2022 8:09 PM, John Byghtn3 via groups.io wrote:
My 2c

In the first photo (left), of the 2nd, 2-photo set, it appears you could insert a small, round shafted, screw driver in the lead/feed screw hole, and put a selection of washers to the left of the screw driver, and slowly pry it a little trying to maintain the most complete contact on the maximum number of threads inside the nut(to spread the load and minimize localized damage if it was to occur), then add another washer and gently pry again , repeat until it comes clear.... 
.
I am seeing that the setscrew is located in the small hole(removed now from the original "first, single, photo", original message), to the left of the nut in the photos' current reversed orientation...

Well maybe 3c now...
Good luck with your final solution.
.
John
.


On 4/4/2022 8:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I've tried pushing and prodding, and filing any visible burrs, and I *think* the issue is a burr raised by the set screw, in an area that I can't reach with a file, because it won't clear the casting.

Unless anyone has a better idea tonight, I'll drill and tap a small thread hole in the bottom, and pull it out that way.

The attached pictures should show that it won't move far enough into the male portion of the dovetail to clear the casting in the other casting, even with the gib removed.  I've tried the opposite direction as well, and there isn't clearance in the cavity for the nut.


PXL_20220404_233429581.jpgPXL_20220404_233413053.jpg

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 10:16 AM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

        You need to separate the top slide from the compound . Loosen the gib screws & then slide it off & your in business . Carefully file the buy , you don't want to make the hole larger , if you do

        you defeat the purpose of replacing the nut .

        animal

On 4/3/2022 10:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg



Rogan Creswick
 

Well, the good news is that I got it out, I know why it was stuck, and I didn't break anything in the process!

The bad news is that I need a new nut.

I decided to try pulling it free with a screw -- initially I was planning on making a screw-based puller of some sort, but I wanted to keep the nut as whole as possible, so I could potentially still use it again, and I since I don't have a /working/ lathe, that was going to be a bit of a pain to do.

I ended up drilling & tapping a ~0.150" hole 10-24 in the nut, after wedging it in place with a little pry bar.  I do have a milling machine, so I used that, and centered it up on the nut, then locked it there for the duration.

After tapping the hole, I put a 10-24 SHCS in a collet, threw the mill in neutral, and manually screwed the spindle into the nut.  The compound was in the vice, and I put a strap clamp over top (I really should have used two, but it worked out). I was able to then use the quill to pull the nut via that SHCS far enough out that I could slide the castings apart, then press the nut out in the other direction.

The nut is flared out ~20-30 thou on the "inside" end, where the ACME thread is, and it's cracked along that ACME threaded hole.  This makes sense, but only in the context of this lathe's history: it went through a shop fire ~15 years ago, and I ended up getting it as a repair/rebuilding project (I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm restoring it.  I want a working machine more than I want to put it back to exact factory specs.).  I suspect that the heating / cooling cycle(s) it went through in that fire caused the thin part of the nut to just give way and pull apart.  I'm in the process of completely dismantling it, replacing all the felts, checking components, scrubbing, scraping, blasting, etc... 

The hard part now is picking between buying a brass nut for $25, or buying a 3/8-10 ACME tap for $17, and a round bar of bronze...

I'll attach a few photos here  -- there are some more, and a short video of the extraction on instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/p/Cb9H6MUutRJ/?utm_medium=copy_link

Thanks again for all the suggestions!
--Rogan

PXL_20220405_025537845.PORTRAIT.jpgPXL_20220405_031226060.PORTRAIT.jpgPXL_20220405_031106658.jpg


On Mon, Apr 4, 2022, 8:48 PM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

        I can't remember how I did it on mine . I thought I just pulled the gib & then slid then apart . If your not a posting member here then sign up & ask here . ALot of these folks have forgotten more about SB lathes then alot of people know . Give it another day & ask these folks . I forgot is this a new to you lathe ? Was it in use when you got it ? Do you know if the felts are any good in the spindle ?

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/

    animal

On 4/4/2022 8:09 PM, John Byghtn3 via groups.io wrote:
My 2c

In the first photo (left), of the 2nd, 2-photo set, it appears you could insert a small, round shafted, screw driver in the lead/feed screw hole, and put a selection of washers to the left of the screw driver, and slowly pry it a little trying to maintain the most complete contact on the maximum number of threads inside the nut(to spread the load and minimize localized damage if it was to occur), then add another washer and gently pry again , repeat until it comes clear.... 
.
I am seeing that the setscrew is located in the small hole(removed now from the original "first, single, photo", original message), to the left of the nut in the photos' current reversed orientation...

Well maybe 3c now...
Good luck with your final solution.
.
John
.


On 4/4/2022 8:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I've tried pushing and prodding, and filing any visible burrs, and I *think* the issue is a burr raised by the set screw, in an area that I can't reach with a file, because it won't clear the casting.

Unless anyone has a better idea tonight, I'll drill and tap a small thread hole in the bottom, and pull it out that way.

The attached pictures should show that it won't move far enough into the male portion of the dovetail to clear the casting in the other casting, even with the gib removed.  I've tried the opposite direction as well, and there isn't clearance in the cavity for the nut.


PXL_20220404_233429581.jpgPXL_20220404_233413053.jpg

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 10:16 AM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

        You need to separate the top slide from the compound . Loosen the gib screws & then slide it off & your in business . Carefully file the buy , you don't want to make the hole larger , if you do

        you defeat the purpose of replacing the nut .

        animal

On 4/3/2022 10:31 PM, Rogan Creswick wrote:
I have another dismantling conundrum that I hope you folks can help with.

The brass nut for the compound won't pop out as it is supposed to -- I can pry it up a bit (probably 1/4" or so) but then it lodges in the bore, and it is not far enough out to remove the compound from the dovetails, even with the gib removed to get a bit more space to work with.

I think a burr has formed on the edge of the threaded hole that is preventing it from sliding out, but I am not positive, and I can only see one side of the nut.  I can rotate it, but it's difficult to do so, and I haven't managed to turn it 180* to see the other side.

I'm also not sure  exactly what I can do about that burr, or if I see one on the other side.  I *might* be able to get a needle file in there, but it'll be tricky.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Rogan
PXL_20220404_025949341.jpg



Chipbreaker13
 

If you like restoring old machine (and who doesn't) then my vote is to buy the $17 tap and round stock. I just bought that tap to make a new brass nut for my Atlas 7B shaper. 
John


Rogan Creswick
 

I bought the $25 nut off ebay, figuring that I'd need to turn it down from larger stock to properly fit the bore, and I didn't want to bother rigging the lathe without a compound...

As it turns out, the nut I bought was made from 0.625 stock, and wasn't machined at all on the part of the OD that actually matters, so yeah, I should have just used the 5/8" 360 brass bar I already happen to have, and bought the tap.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 3:46 PM Chipbreaker13 <john.lillig@...> wrote:
If you like restoring old machine (and who doesn't) then my vote is to buy the $17 tap and round stock. I just bought that tap to make a new brass nut for my Atlas 7B shaper. 
John


William Nelson
 

I bought my cross slide but from "henrbaske0" on ebay and his tolerances were way off. I told him about it but never received a reply. It's almost a do it yourself finishing kit.
--
Bill From Socal