ER Collet nut
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mike allen
So , I've been thinking of making a ER40 collet chuck as you folks know form the tread I started last week . I keep thinking the only part that I'm not 100 % sure I can pull off is the metric threads on the
collet nut . So Erik's post got me thinking , why does the chuck
need to be threaded for metric threads ? Why cant we make our
own nuts & thread them SAE fine ? Does the nut need to be
hardened ? Another thought I have been thinking about is how bout a collet chuck that doubles as a collet block ? Thought's ? thanks animal
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Andrei
I think the nut is the most complex item in the build. Many who have built these chucks seem to just buy their nuts (oh, that sounds funny).
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of mike allen <animal@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:18 PM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>; atlas-craftsman@groups.io <atlas-craftsman@groups.io> Subject: [SouthBendLathe] ER Collet nut
So , I've been thinking of making a ER40 collet chuck as you folks know form the tread I started last week . I keep thinking the only part that I'm not 100 % sure I can pull off is the metric threads on the collet nut . So Erik's post got me thinking , why does the chuck need to be threaded for metric threads ? Why cant we make our own nuts & thread them SAE fine ? Does the nut need to be hardened
? Another thought I have been thinking about is how bout a collet chuck that doubles as a collet block ? Thought's ? thanks animal
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mike allen
Well , thats better the throwing your nut away cause ya screwed it up . up On 2/14/2023 2:27 PM, Andrei wrote:
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You lot are nutty... On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:21 PM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
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You're one of us, and it takes one to know one! ;) Besides, normal people are boring! Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better
On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 06:07:46 PM CST, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
You lot are nutty... On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:21 PM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
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Rick
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 05:18 PM, mike allen wrote:
There is info on here about cutting metric threads on a SB9. You need to swap a few gears, to drive the lead screw at a different rate. The one thing you can not use is the thread dial. Once you engage the half nuts, you must leave them engaged until you are finished cutting the thread. You make a pass, and shut the power off just as you are finishing the last thread. After the spindle stops, you back out the cutter, run the lathe in reverse to get back to the beginning and then crank back into the cut. It is a little slower than using the threading dial, but not bad. |
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Andrei
You only back out the cutter after the spindle stops? Not when you get to the end of the thread? Is there much variation where the cutter ends up?
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From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Rick <vwrick@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 9:02:17 PM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] ER Collet nut On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 05:18 PM, mike allen wrote:
There is info on here about cutting metric threads on a SB9. You need to swap a few gears, to drive the lead screw at a different rate. The one thing you can not use is the thread dial. Once you engage the half nuts, you must leave them engaged until you are finished cutting the thread. You make a pass, and shut the power off just as you are finishing the last thread. After the spindle stops, you back out the cutter, run the lathe in reverse to get back to the beginning and then crank back into the cut. It is a little slower than using the threading dial, but not bad. |
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mike allen
So any thoughts on a combo ER40 chuck/block ? You could
go from the lathe to the mill or vice versa without taking the
part out of the chuck/block , there may be other +'s that haven't
hit me yet . animal On 2/14/2023 7:50 PM, Andrei wrote:
You only back out the cutter after the spindle stops? Not when you get to the end of the thread? Is there much variation where the cutter ends up? |
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DJ Delorie
"Rick" <vwrick@...> writes:
The one thing you can not use is the thread dial.Not true :-) https://youtu.be/HXt4TWa382Q?t=369 You can drop the half nut at the end of the thread, then kill power, reverse, and when your "number" lines up again, engage the half nuts and you're back where you started. |
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Rick
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 12:43 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rick" <vwrick@...> writes:I’ll concede that he is using the threading dial, but not how one would normally use it. What he is doing seems like a lot more work, for what advantage? I think he is just introducing another chance of making a mistake while threading. The relief groove is plenty wide to stop the machine in without drama. |
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Rick
The spindle stops in the relief groove. Therefore, no variation in the thread. On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:50 PM, Andrei wrote: You only back out the cutter after the spindle stops? Not when you get to the end of the thread? Is there much variation where the cutter ends up? |
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Rick
Here is a picture of the one for my SB13. Note the relief groove, plenty of room for the spindle to park. This is a schematic I found on the internet, it is what I used to make mine. I don’t know who to give the credit to for it, or I would. Here is some info that is posted on this site about the gears needed to do metric threading on a SB9. Something I like to do with info like this is print it out, laminate it, and keep it with my lathe tooling, so I can always find it again. |
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m. allan noah
I don't know about the collet chuck drawing, but I provided that threading info a few years ago. Glad to see someone making use of it. When threading, I use the same method DJ showed, so I can use a much narrower runout groove. Some parts I make require that. allan
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"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand" |
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Dallas
I made an ER32 collet chuck for my Atlas 618 several years ago and love the ER system. I turned this one from piece of round stock, threaded the inside for lathe spindle, outside for purchased ER nut, drilled a hole for a spanner wrench, and bored the inside taper. It works perfectly and I use it all the time. I bought fractional collets and in retrospect would recommend metric instead. Before you buy your collets, look at the grip range inch vs mm. There are some gaps in the inch sets, just a point to consider. This was quite a bit of work because I made threads fit as close as I could and made nice finished surfaces.
Metric threading is no problem, you just have to leave lots of relief room at the end of the threads for the lathe to stop, leave half nuts closed, and reverse the motor to starting point. The closest change gear to give you the tpi works fine. I still regularly use the collet chuck I made from scratch and I recommend the project. However if I were going to make another I would buy a hex body collet chuck bore out the back side and thread to fit my spindle. You can buy these for $25 or so and get any ER series you want. They all come with nuts and some have handles for a similar price. This would save threading the collet nut thread and making the tapered bore for the collet. The hex body collets will work as is for small spindle lathes like the 618. |
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William Nelson
I had that idea a while ago as I had some parts to make that would have been easier to leave in the chuck and go back and forth to the lathe and mill. I considered using carbide tooling to thread a commercial hex block as there was sufficient wall thickness for the threads. I never got around to it but it is still in the back of my mind. If I had a surface grinder making one would be much easier. I have a 10k and have used the printed gears from Ebay with great success making metric threads. I believe I saw a way to use the threading dial on you tube but never tried it. Something about using the same mark on the dial I believe but don't hold me to it.
-- Bill From Socal |
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Andrei
The only difference between metric and imperial on using threading dial is that with metric you have to start ON THE SAME mark, every time.
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of William Nelson <wnnelson@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 10:55 AM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] ER Collet nut I had that idea a while ago as I had some parts to make that would have been easier to leave in the chuck and go back and forth to the lathe and mill. I considered using carbide tooling to thread a commercial hex block as there was sufficient wall thickness
for the threads. I never got around to it but it is still in the back of my mind. If I had a surface grinder making one would be much easier. I have a 10k and have used the printed gears from Ebay with great success making metric threads. I believe I saw a
way to use the threading dial on you tube but never tried it. Something about using the same mark on the dial I believe but don't hold me to it.
-- Bill From Socal |
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Rick
I thought about this, but how would you indicate it in so as to minimize runout? The taper would be facing the chuck, so you couldn’t indicate it on that, maybe on the relief cut? On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 09:51 AM, Dallas wrote:
I still regularly use the collet chuck I made from scratch and I recommend the project. However if I were going to make another I would buy a hex body collet chuck bore out the back side and thread to fit my spindle. You can buy these for $25 or so and get any ER series you want. They all come with nuts and some have handles for a similar price. This would save threading the collet nut thread and making the tapered bore for the collet. The hex body collets will work as is for small spindle lathes like the 618. |
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Rick
Are you saying you can just disengage the half nut, hand crank the carriage back, and restart on the same number? On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 10:58 AM, Andrei wrote:
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Andrei
Yes, that is the plan, anyway. 🙂
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Rick <vwrick@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:49 AM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] ER Collet nut Are you saying you can just disengage the half nut, hand crank the carriage back, and restart on the same number?
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William Nelson
Well that would have been the tricky part. I would have put in my 5/8" 6k collet. I'm able to put my 3 or 4 jaw chucks over that. Install a 5/8 ground rod in the collet block and tighten well. Insert the rod and block into the 6k collet and tighten that. Use the 3 or 4 jaw to hold the collet block. Check to make sure everything is square and concentric which could be a sticking point. Then bore and thread. Not sure how well threading would be in the hardened collet block but one never knows until he tries.
-- Bill From Socal |
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