Cast Iron Legs


mike allen
 

Was it here that a member was looking for some cast iron legs a
while back ?

https://www.martinmodel.com/collections/miscellaneous/products/cast-iron-legs-for-slab-tables

        I didn't say they were cheap

        animal


wmrmeyers@gmail.com
 

Originals aren't cheap either! This is at least an option for folks who can't afford the "real thing." :)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 11:17:15 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        Was it here that a member was looking for some cast iron legs a
while back ?


        I didn't say they were cheap

        animal







Andrei
 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of wmrmeyers@... <wmrmeyers@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 8:55 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Originals aren't cheap either! This is at least an option for folks who can't afford the "real thing." :)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 11:17:15 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        Was it here that a member was looking for some cast iron legs a
while back ?


        I didn't say they were cheap

        animal







wmrmeyers@gmail.com
 

I wonder how much the shipping costs? And, did you notice that the minimum quantity was 10? Now where could I get 4" black walnut planks for a reasonable cost?

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Wednesday, April 20, 2022, 08:21:46 AM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


Here are some Chinese cast iron copies. The price is awesome, but shipping takes 4-5 weeks. 



From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of wmrmeyers@... <wmrmeyers@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 8:55 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Originals aren't cheap either! This is at least an option for folks who can't afford the "real thing." :)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 11:17:15 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        Was it here that a member was looking for some cast iron legs a
while back ?


        I didn't say they were cheap

        animal







Andrei
 

10 units is no biggie. I would be a customer for two pairs (aka 4 of them), if we decide to make a group buy. I have bought from China big-ish parts in the past including a 1000 pound crate and even a 50cc scooter. 

It was not that hard to manage the import transaction. It just ate a whole day of my time and the duties were minimal. The warehouse loaded everything on my truck so I did not have to move a finger until I got home. 

I am guessing this will be a single wood and metal crate that weighs about 400+ pounds. Upon reaching home, you would break it down in the back of the truck and unload each 30-35 pound leg, one at a time. 

Shipping domestically via something like Fastenal will be pretty cheap and done within a week from store to store. 

Anyway, if anybody else is game, I will pony up for 4 legs. 

Hardwood is generally easy to find in most areas of the country. Here is an example from your neck of the woods (pun definitely intended): https://phoenixhardwoodinc.com/


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of wmrmeyers@... <wmrmeyers@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 9:32 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
I wonder how much the shipping costs? And, did you notice that the minimum quantity was 10? Now where could I get 4" black walnut planks for a reasonable cost?

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Wednesday, April 20, 2022, 08:21:46 AM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


Here are some Chinese cast iron copies. The price is awesome, but shipping takes 4-5 weeks. 



From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of wmrmeyers@... <wmrmeyers@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 8:55 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Originals aren't cheap either! This is at least an option for folks who can't afford the "real thing." :)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 11:17:15 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        Was it here that a member was looking for some cast iron legs a
while back ?


        I didn't say they were cheap

        animal







mike allen
 

        I would imagine a guy could sell the other 4 pairs & make a nice lil profit & still get his legs for free .

    animal

On 4/20/2022 6:21 AM, Andrei wrote:
Here are some Chinese cast iron copies. The price is awesome, but shipping takes 4-5 weeks. 



From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of wmrmeyers@... <wmrmeyers@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 8:55 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Originals aren't cheap either! This is at least an option for folks who can't afford the "real thing." :)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 11:17:15 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        Was it here that a member was looking for some cast iron legs a
while back ?


        I didn't say they were cheap

        animal







William Nelson
 

Ok is this a crap shoot as to what style legs you get? I see a different leg style in the video vs. the still pictures. Probably get something completely different when you receive it. Is 28.5" tall enough seems short to me.
--
Bill From Socal


Andrei
 

Remember that any advertising is generic. Once you establish contact with the seller, they will send you a list of 40-50 styles they manufacture and the respective prices. Then you pick what you want. Kinda like Amazon advertising sunglasses in an ad and when you go to the shopping catalog site they have 3,800 designs to pick from. 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of William Nelson <wnnelson@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 12:16 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Ok is this a crap shoot as to what style legs you get? I see a different leg style in the video vs. the still pictures. Probably get something completely different when you receive it. Is 28.5" tall enough seems short to me.
--
Bill From Socal


Ondrej Krejci
 

On Thursday, April 21, 2022, 12:53:47 PM EDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


Remember that any advertising is generic. Once you establish contact with the seller, they will send you a list of 40-50 styles they manufacture and the respective prices. Then you pick what you want. Kinda like Amazon advertising sunglasses in an ad and when you go to the shopping catalog site they have 3,800 designs to pick from. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of William Nelson <wnnelson@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 12:16 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Ok is this a crap shoot as to what style legs you get? I see a different leg style in the video vs. the still pictures. Probably get something completely different when you receive it. Is 28.5" tall enough seems short to me.
--
Bill From Socal


Andrei
 

That looks like a pretty good deal, with both tops. I bet it weight 120 pouns like nothing. I want to see my mailman hauling that to the door. 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Ondrej Krejci via groups.io <okrejci@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 3:12 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
On Thursday, April 21, 2022, 12:53:47 PM EDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


Remember that any advertising is generic. Once you establish contact with the seller, they will send you a list of 40-50 styles they manufacture and the respective prices. Then you pick what you want. Kinda like Amazon advertising sunglasses in an ad and when you go to the shopping catalog site they have 3,800 designs to pick from. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of William Nelson <wnnelson@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 12:16 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Ok is this a crap shoot as to what style legs you get? I see a different leg style in the video vs. the still pictures. Probably get something completely different when you receive it. Is 28.5" tall enough seems short to me.
--
Bill From Socal


Andrei
 

I just read the details. No benchtop included. In that case, 700 bucks for the pair of legs ain't worth it. 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Andrei <calciu1@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 3:15 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
That looks like a pretty good deal, with both tops. I bet it weight 120 pouns like nothing. I want to see my mailman hauling that to the door. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Ondrej Krejci via groups.io <okrejci@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 3:12 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
On Thursday, April 21, 2022, 12:53:47 PM EDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


Remember that any advertising is generic. Once you establish contact with the seller, they will send you a list of 40-50 styles they manufacture and the respective prices. Then you pick what you want. Kinda like Amazon advertising sunglasses in an ad and when you go to the shopping catalog site they have 3,800 designs to pick from. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of William Nelson <wnnelson@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 12:16 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Ok is this a crap shoot as to what style legs you get? I see a different leg style in the video vs. the still pictures. Probably get something completely different when you receive it. Is 28.5" tall enough seems short to me.
--
Bill From Socal


Bill in OKC too
 

That does not include the wooden top or shelf. Those are an additional $273 each. Plus shipping. Lots of shipping. $179 for the set of legs alone.

Bill in OKC <----- can't help being a downer sometimes. Sorry about that!

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, April 21, 2022, 02:15:57 PM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


That looks like a pretty good deal, with both tops. I bet it weight 120 pouns like nothing. I want to see my mailman hauling that to the door. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Ondrej Krejci via groups.io <okrejci@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 3:12 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
On Thursday, April 21, 2022, 12:53:47 PM EDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


Remember that any advertising is generic. Once you establish contact with the seller, they will send you a list of 40-50 styles they manufacture and the respective prices. Then you pick what you want. Kinda like Amazon advertising sunglasses in an ad and when you go to the shopping catalog site they have 3,800 designs to pick from. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of William Nelson <wnnelson@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 12:16 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Ok is this a crap shoot as to what style legs you get? I see a different leg style in the video vs. the still pictures. Probably get something completely different when you receive it. Is 28.5" tall enough seems short to me.
--
Bill From Socal


William Nelson
 

I'm with you Debbie Downer that price is crazy high. But remember you get thr brass Southbend name plates to make it official so I'm pretty sure that raises the price a tad.
--
Bill From Socal


Jack Reynolds
 

I went and looked at the SB/Grizzly website to see these and I agree about the crazy price.  But when I perused more of the site and got curious about their version of a SB Heavy Ten I was aghast!  They boast about what a hodge podge of parts they are made of from around the world and then show a price that blows you away!  They are also out of stock on most of them.  It is a far cry from when SB used to boast that all orders were filled from stock and the black and white pictures of row upon row of beds, heads, etc ready to be assembled and shipped.

Jack

On 4/22/2022 11:26 AM, William Nelson wrote:
I'm with you Debbie Downer that price is crazy high. But remember you get thr brass Southbend name plates to make it official so I'm pretty sure that raises the price a tad.
--
Bill From Socal


Ondrej Krejci
 

The new Heavy Ten is still cheaper than the last dinosaur SB lathe offered by LeBlond Makino at $15K, which no one was buying anyway.  Belt drive metal lathes are mostly a thing of the past.

On Friday, April 22, 2022, 04:48:10 PM EDT, Jack Reynolds <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote:


I went and looked at the SB/Grizzly website to see these and I agree about the crazy price.  But when I perused more of the site and got curious about their version of a SB Heavy Ten I was aghast!  They boast about what a hodge podge of parts they are made of from around the world and then show a price that blows you away!  They are also out of stock on most of them.  It is a far cry from when SB used to boast that all orders were filled from stock and the black and white pictures of row upon row of beds, heads, etc ready to be assembled and shipped.

Jack

On 4/22/2022 11:26 AM, William Nelson wrote:
I'm with you Debbie Downer that price is crazy high. But remember you get thr brass Southbend name plates to make it official so I'm pretty sure that raises the price a tad.
--
Bill From Socal


MnM3
 

Hi guys,

That'd be me looking for a set of cast iron legs.  I've been looking for a long time.  
I've seen the Grizzley legs, but as others mentioned; expensive! 
The legs for the older SBs have a very unique and narrow top mounting plate of 6"x6".  None of the third-party examples I've seen have that kind of mounting plate.  Luckily, I have another 11" lathe to measure, and was able to create a set of drawings for a local shop to fabricate a set of legs out of 1/2" steel plate.  I sent them the drawings.  Still waiting on a price.  I'm sure they won't be cheap...but I want to try and match the SB legs if I can.  
If the price is out of sight; plan B is to look at making a replica of the SB wood bench.  The SB bench appears doable and it won't need to be very big as my lathe is a 11x3 with the integral splash pan.  Fingers crossed on the fabrication price.


Jack Reynolds
 

Ondrej,

You are probably quite right on both counts.  Unfortunately not only are belt drive lathes mostly a thing of the past but manually operated lathes are not far behind as are people who know how to use them properly.  I have a 1959 SB Heavy 10 and a 10 inch Logan, both of which combined could not even begin to match the cost of that new Heavy 10 which does not even come with a base.  Nevertheless, I would not trade either of them for that new "Heavy 10".

Jack

On 4/22/2022 6:22 PM, Ondrej Krejci via groups.io wrote:
The new Heavy Ten is still cheaper than the last dinosaur SB lathe offered by LeBlond Makino at $15K, which no one was buying anyway.  Belt drive metal lathes are mostly a thing of the past.

On Friday, April 22, 2022, 04:48:10 PM EDT, Jack Reynolds <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote:


I went and looked at the SB/Grizzly website to see these and I agree about the crazy price.  But when I perused more of the site and got curious about their version of a SB Heavy Ten I was aghast!  They boast about what a hodge podge of parts they are made of from around the world and then show a price that blows you away!  They are also out of stock on most of them.  It is a far cry from when SB used to boast that all orders were filled from stock and the black and white pictures of row upon row of beds, heads, etc ready to be assembled and shipped.

Jack


Bill in OKC too
 

The new Heavy 10 really isn't. And there are several vendors selling 10x22 lathes about the same size for half or less than Grizzly wants for their machine with the name on it. Including Grizzly, IIRC. They also do not have the accessories that were standard on the old Heavy 10L. No collet closers, no taper attachment, just for starters.

I looked at them real hard, and over a decade, and couldn't convince myself to buy one. The real thing was available in decent shape on Ebay for about $2500-$3500, and most with all the goodies. I got mine in need of substantial restoration for under a grand. It's a long way from finished, but I'm sure it will be a much better lathe even though it only has the single-tumbler gearbox. And a spare, and two 5-C collet closers, a taper attachment, and both regular and turret tailstocks. It is going to be a lot of work, but I'll know the thing forwards and backwards by the time I'm done.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better


On Friday, April 22, 2022, 05:23:52 PM CDT, Ondrej Krejci via groups.io <okrejci@...> wrote:


The new Heavy Ten is still cheaper than the last dinosaur SB lathe offered by LeBlond Makino at $15K, which no one was buying anyway.  Belt drive metal lathes are mostly a thing of the past.

On Friday, April 22, 2022, 04:48:10 PM EDT, Jack Reynolds <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote:


I went and looked at the SB/Grizzly website to see these and I agree about the crazy price.  But when I perused more of the site and got curious about their version of a SB Heavy Ten I was aghast!  They boast about what a hodge podge of parts they are made of from around the world and then show a price that blows you away!  They are also out of stock on most of them.  It is a far cry from when SB used to boast that all orders were filled from stock and the black and white pictures of row upon row of beds, heads, etc ready to be assembled and shipped.

Jack

On 4/22/2022 11:26 AM, William Nelson wrote:
I'm with you Debbie Downer that price is crazy high. But remember you get thr brass Southbend name plates to make it official so I'm pretty sure that raises the price a tad.
--
Bill From Socal


Andrei
 

You should consider calling Cattail Foundry in Gordonville PA. They will pour anything cast-iron for you, except canons. They are Amish, so no internet, just good old fashion letters and sometimes they even answer the phone, but they do great work.


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of MnM3 <mhelseth@...>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 9:18:09 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Hi guys,

That'd be me looking for a set of cast iron legs.  I've been looking for a long time.  
I've seen the Grizzley legs, but as others mentioned; expensive! 
The legs for the older SBs have a very unique and narrow top mounting plate of 6"x6".  None of the third-party examples I've seen have that kind of mounting plate.  Luckily, I have another 11" lathe to measure, and was able to create a set of drawings for a local shop to fabricate a set of legs out of 1/2" steel plate.  I sent them the drawings.  Still waiting on a price.  I'm sure they won't be cheap...but I want to try and match the SB legs if I can.  
If the price is out of sight; plan B is to look at making a replica of the SB wood bench.  The SB bench appears doable and it won't need to be very big as my lathe is a 11x3 with the integral splash pan.  Fingers crossed on the fabrication price.


Bill in OKC too
 

I'm not sure they're still in business. The owner ran afoul of the AFT for selling firearms without an FFL. Though I hope I'm wrong.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Saturday, April 23, 2022, 07:09:18 AM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


You should consider calling Cattail Foundry in Gordonville PA. They will pour anything cast-iron for you, except canons. They are Amish, so no internet, just good old fashion letters and sometimes they even answer the phone, but they do great work.


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of MnM3 <mhelseth@...>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 9:18:09 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Cast Iron Legs
 
Hi guys,

That'd be me looking for a set of cast iron legs.  I've been looking for a long time.  
I've seen the Grizzley legs, but as others mentioned; expensive! 
The legs for the older SBs have a very unique and narrow top mounting plate of 6"x6".  None of the third-party examples I've seen have that kind of mounting plate.  Luckily, I have another 11" lathe to measure, and was able to create a set of drawings for a local shop to fabricate a set of legs out of 1/2" steel plate.  I sent them the drawings.  Still waiting on a price.  I'm sure they won't be cheap...but I want to try and match the SB legs if I can.  
If the price is out of sight; plan B is to look at making a replica of the SB wood bench.  The SB bench appears doable and it won't need to be very big as my lathe is a 11x3 with the integral splash pan.  Fingers crossed on the fabrication price.