Topics

9A lever collet closer - spindle pin


mike allen
 

        does a center fit in the spindle all the way ? have ya looked inside of the spindle bore for any kind of irregularity that could stop it from going in all the way ? how's the outside of the "collet sleeve " ? all smooth ?

        ya may need to get a Morse taper reamer & give the spindle a tad of touch up

        animal

On 7/1/2020 11:03 AM, Larry Shaw wrote:
Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!


Bob Kellermann
 

The Collett holder/ nose piece does not go in all the way that is the way it is supposed to be I use 3c collects on my 10k with the same nose piece but use hand wheel 
The thread protector is used to eject the holder/nose piece 

On Jul 1, 2020, at 3:51 PM, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:



        does a center fit in the spindle all the way ? have ya looked inside of the spindle bore for any kind of irregularity that could stop it from going in all the way ? how's the outside of the "collet sleeve " ? all smooth ?

        ya may need to get a Morse taper reamer & give the spindle a tad of touch up

        animal

On 7/1/2020 11:03 AM, Larry Shaw wrote:
Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!
<76BC0238-4CAC-4E28-8DCF-3AA088D213D1.jpeg>
<F84E992F-3AC0-4490-BAE0-BC56A0630F84.jpeg>
<C66B2527-DECA-4A69-A8A8-E3A2B19EFC05.jpeg>
<36F4FBBB-14B9-4BCA-86C0-C43F2DDFEBFF.jpeg>


mike allen
 

        ok , I was just kinda guessin at things ,. I dont have a collet setup , I havn't had a collet system pop up in my neck of the woods as of yet

        animal

On 7/1/2020 1:18 PM, Bob Kellermann via groups.io wrote:
The Collett holder/ nose piece does not go in all the way that is the way it is supposed to be I use 3c collects on my 10k with the same nose piece but use hand wheel 
The thread protector is used to eject the holder/nose piece 

On Jul 1, 2020, at 3:51 PM, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:



        does a center fit in the spindle all the way ? have ya looked inside of the spindle bore for any kind of irregularity that could stop it from going in all the way ? how's the outside of the "collet sleeve " ? all smooth ?

        ya may need to get a Morse taper reamer & give the spindle a tad of touch up

        animal

On 7/1/2020 11:03 AM, Larry Shaw wrote:
Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!
<76BC0238-4CAC-4E28-8DCF-3AA088D213D1.jpeg>
<F84E992F-3AC0-4490-BAE0-BC56A0630F84.jpeg>
<C66B2527-DECA-4A69-A8A8-E3A2B19EFC05.jpeg>
<36F4FBBB-14B9-4BCA-86C0-C43F2DDFEBFF.jpeg>


Andrei
 

Here is what my handwheel model looks when not tightened at allImage

Image



Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of mike allen <animal@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 4:30:30 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 9A lever collet closer - spindle pin
 

        ok , I was just kinda guessin at things ,. I dont have a collet setup , I havn't had a collet system pop up in my neck of the woods as of yet

        animal

On 7/1/2020 1:18 PM, Bob Kellermann via groups.io wrote:
The Collett holder/ nose piece does not go in all the way that is the way it is supposed to be I use 3c collects on my 10k with the same nose piece but use hand wheel 
The thread protector is used to eject the holder/nose piece 

On Jul 1, 2020, at 3:51 PM, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:



        does a center fit in the spindle all the way ? have ya looked inside of the spindle bore for any kind of irregularity that could stop it from going in all the way ? how's the outside of the "collet sleeve " ? all smooth ?

        ya may need to get a Morse taper reamer & give the spindle a tad of touch up

        animal

On 7/1/2020 11:03 AM, Larry Shaw wrote:
Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!
<76BC0238-4CAC-4E28-8DCF-3AA088D213D1.jpeg>
<F84E992F-3AC0-4490-BAE0-BC56A0630F84.jpeg>
<C66B2527-DECA-4A69-A8A8-E3A2B19EFC05.jpeg>
<36F4FBBB-14B9-4BCA-86C0-C43F2DDFEBFF.jpeg>


Robert H. Blodinger
 

I don’t know what collets that sleeve in the photo is for, but I have what looks like the same sleeve and nose protector and it is for 3C collets which I use all the time.  The nose piece and the collet which is threaded are drawn into the sleeve by a threaded draw bar placed into the spindle from the left side of the headstock and then tightened up.  You better use that nose protector at all times because sometimes I tighten up the drawbar tight enough that without the nose protector and a spanner wrench around the nosepiece it would be hard to get that sleeve off to remove it.

By the way, best thing I ever did was to make an ER 40 collet chuck, pretty easy job and it gets used more than any other chucks.  

Running a 1935 wide bed 9.

Bob

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Larry Shaw <larry@...> wrote:

Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!
<76BC0238-4CAC-4E28-8DCF-3AA088D213D1.jpeg><F84E992F-3AC0-4490-BAE0-BC56A0630F84.jpeg><C66B2527-DECA-4A69-A8A8-E3A2B19EFC05.jpeg><36F4FBBB-14B9-4BCA-86C0-C43F2DDFEBFF.jpeg>


Andrei
 

The pictures are of a 3c collet closer setup on a SB 9a. This one is operated with a handwheel at the back. but the front portion of the setup (shown in pic) is identical as for the lever closer. 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Robert H. Blodinger <w4npx@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 4:53 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 9A lever collet closer - spindle pin
 
I don’t know what collets that sleeve in the photo is for, but I have what looks like the same sleeve and nose protector and it is for 3C collets which I use all the time.  The nose piece and the collet which is threaded are drawn into the sleeve by a threaded draw bar placed into the spindle from the left side of the headstock and then tightened up.  You better use that nose protector at all times because sometimes I tighten up the drawbar tight enough that without the nose protector and a spanner wrench around the nosepiece it would be hard to get that sleeve off to remove it.

By the way, best thing I ever did was to make an ER 40 collet chuck, pretty easy job and it gets used more than any other chucks.  

Running a 1935 wide bed 9.

Bob

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Larry Shaw <larry@...> wrote:

Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!
<76BC0238-4CAC-4E28-8DCF-3AA088D213D1.jpeg><F84E992F-3AC0-4490-BAE0-BC56A0630F84.jpeg><C66B2527-DECA-4A69-A8A8-E3A2B19EFC05.jpeg><36F4FBBB-14B9-4BCA-86C0-C43F2DDFEBFF.jpeg>


Bob Kellermann
 


On Jul 1, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


The pictures are of a 3c collet closer setup on a SB 9a. This one is operated with a handwheel at the back. but the front portion of the setup (shown in pic) is identical as for the lever closer. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Robert H. Blodinger <w4npx@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 4:53 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 9A lever collet closer - spindle pin
 
I don’t know what collets that sleeve in the photo is for, but I have what looks like the same sleeve and nose protector and it is for 3C collets which I use all the time.  The nose piece and the collet which is threaded are drawn into the sleeve by a threaded draw bar placed into the spindle from the left side of the headstock and then tightened up.  You better use that nose protector at all times because sometimes I tighten up the drawbar tight enough that without the nose protector and a spanner wrench around the nosepiece it would be hard to get that sleeve off to remove it.

By the way, best thing I ever did was to make an ER 40 collet chuck, pretty easy job and it gets used more than any other chucks.  

Running a 1935 wide bed 9.

Bob

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Larry Shaw <larry@...> wrote:

Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!
<76BC0238-4CAC-4E28-8DCF-3AA088D213D1.jpeg><F84E992F-3AC0-4490-BAE0-BC56A0630F84.jpeg><C66B2527-DECA-4A69-A8A8-E3A2B19EFC05.jpeg><36F4FBBB-14B9-4BCA-86C0-C43F2DDFEBFF.jpeg>


Bob Kellermann
 

Hope this helps 


On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Bob Kellermann via groups.io <rtjkeller@...> wrote:


<cid:80B6BBD3-64B7-43D5-BEC6-0554407C54FB.jpg>

On Jul 1, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


The pictures are of a 3c collet closer setup on a SB 9a. This one is operated with a handwheel at the back. but the front portion of the setup (shown in pic) is identical as for the lever closer. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Robert H. Blodinger <w4npx@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 4:53 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 9A lever collet closer - spindle pin
 
I don’t know what collets that sleeve in the photo is for, but I have what looks like the same sleeve and nose protector and it is for 3C collets which I use all the time.  The nose piece and the collet which is threaded are drawn into the sleeve by a threaded draw bar placed into the spindle from the left side of the headstock and then tightened up.  You better use that nose protector at all times because sometimes I tighten up the drawbar tight enough that without the nose protector and a spanner wrench around the nosepiece it would be hard to get that sleeve off to remove it.

By the way, best thing I ever did was to make an ER 40 collet chuck, pretty easy job and it gets used more than any other chucks.  

Running a 1935 wide bed 9.

Bob

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Larry Shaw <larry@...> wrote:

Reposting but with the pics and correct spelling this time and a couple clarifications.
The collet sleeve (I was calling it “nosepiece” but this is SBL’s term) is shown below both with and without the thread protector ring installed. The collets fit the same with or without the thread protector ring installed. The
collet sleeve is a taper friction fit inside the spindle, no threads or pins in spindle to engage. No markings on the collet sleeve. I can’t get the collet sleeve in further even with a bit of persuasion from a dead blow hammer. Thanks for your comments!
<76BC0238-4CAC-4E28-8DCF-3AA088D213D1.jpeg><F84E992F-3AC0-4490-BAE0-BC56A0630F84.jpeg><C66B2527-DECA-4A69-A8A8-E3A2B19EFC05.jpeg><36F4FBBB-14B9-4BCA-86C0-C43F2DDFEBFF.jpeg>


Stephen Bartlett
 

That is a safe way to remove the collet closer? I have always worried about damaging or at east unduly wearing the spindle threads.

I have a spanner wrench that fits the nose piece.

If the closer is not too tight I sometimes bump it out from the left end with a piece of aluminum rod. I am not sure if that is a good idea either.

Steve Bartlett


From: Nick Jonkman
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 14:09:52 EDT

Larry

That is far enough. The thread protector is used to eject the sleeve.

Nick


comstock_friend
 
Edited

Had a quality Royal lever closer on my Enco 12" (5C collets and very similar spindle as my SB 13"). Found that for onesy twosy hobby work it was a pain in the ass to get the correct tension. Built a manual closer for the 13" SB and the Enco (the two share the same draw tube). Much quicker now.

The SB 9"ers at the cabin both have manual closers. Your collet sleeve is sticking out the appropriate distance. Either the thread protector can knock it out or a knock out bar (I use both). The SB 10K has collet nose ground into the spindle with a key to use special 6k collets, while the 9"ers are the modified MT3 spindle with the adapter.

The SB 9" collet system, 1A and 3C collets are interchangeable, is very handy for round work under 9/16". Use them all the time. Haven't tried to hold end mills for milling as I have a BP and some horizontal Diamonds for that.

John


Ondrej Krejci
 

Hello,

There is no reason for the sleeve to seat on the shoulder.  HSK tapers, which seat on shoulders, were not yet even pondered when your lathe was made.  All other tapers seat taper on taper.
Using a quick open-close turning collet set-up to hold milling tools is a horrible idea because the tools will move.

Good Luck,


OK

On Wednesday, July 1, 2020, 08:58:40 PM EDT, comstock_friend <jfriend314@...> wrote:


[Edited Message Follows]

Had a quality Royal lever closer on my Enco 12" (5C collets and very similar spindle as my SB 13"). Found that for onesy twosy hobby work it was a pain in the ass to get the correct tension. Built a manual closer for the 13" SB and the Enco (the two share the same draw tube). Much quicker now.

The SB 9"ers at the cabin both have manual closers. Your collet sleeve is sticking out the appropriate distance. Either the thread protector can knock it out or a knock out bar (I use both). The SB 10K has collet nose ground into the spindle with a key to use special 6k collets, while the 9"ers are the modified MT3 spindle with the adapter.

The SB 9" collet system, 1A and 3C collets are interchangeable, is very handy for round work under 9/16". Use them all the time. Haven't tried to hold end mills for milling as I have a BP and some horizontal Diamonds for that.

John


v.gearheardt@...
 

Gentlemen,
Milling cutters are high speed steel and no Collet or chuck is going to hold them. Lathes are not mills! If you are insistent is using your lathe to hold mils you need to use a MT end mill holders and add a drawbar as previous thread states correctly.  I  set up an Atlas and all it wa good for was milling 3/16" keyways, which I can do just as well freehand with a die grinder. If you want to surface flat stock use a 4 jaw and a face tool.
THe right tool for the right job!


eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

I'm sure it will say somewhere in the instructions for milling on a lathe, LIGHT milling.  Hold the cutter in the 3 jaw chuck or a proper milling collet holder as used on a miller (as below), not the collet system that is designed for holding workpieces for turning etc. 

I have always had satisfactory results off my Myford ML7 (7" swing) using the good and concentric 3 jaw, the only drawback being the low spindle speed in relation to small diameter cutters.  It soon tells you if you are overdoing it!  Conversely, I have recently used a solid carbide 16mm 4 flute cutter to reduce the height of a mild steel surface and it quite happily took a quarter turn of the 8 tpi leadscrew as depth of cut, so long as I didn't wind the feed too quickly and took due regard of the direction of thrust against the traverse screws so it didn't jump.  The trickiet job is ball end millers.  The same job needed a quarter circle radius cutting with a 10mm cutter.  I roughed it with an ordinary cutter first and initially, the follow on profile cuts would take 20 thou quite happily, but finishing across the full profile allowed only about 2 - 5 thou at a time.

Apologies for the mixed units.  The price differential between metric sized tooling, screw threaded components etc. and Imperial ditto becomes greater by the minute.  Most of the time, it makes no odds whatosever to the job.

Eddie

On Friday, 10 July 2020, 04:18:21 BST, v.gearheardt@... <v.gearheardt@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,
Milling cutters are high speed steel and no Collet or chuck is going to hold them. Lathes are not mills! If you are insistent is using your lathe to hold mils you need to use a MT end mill holders and add a drawbar as previous thread states correctly.  I  set up an Atlas and all it wa good for was milling 3/16" keyways, which I can do just as well freehand with a die grinder. If you want to surface flat stock use a 4 jaw and a face tool.
THe right tool for the right job!


LarryS <vision1@...>
 

Mill cutters work fine.

No problem.  Been done longer than anyone around here has been alive.

If you understand machining, you can use a mill cutter chucked in a lathe or a lathe cutter chucked in a mill – if that’s what’s required for the job. 

I’ve done both quite successfully.

Tempest in a teapot.

L.

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of eddie.draper@... via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 3:42 AM
To: southbendlathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 9A lever collet closer - spindle pin

 

I'm sure it will say somewhere in the instructions for milling on a lathe, LIGHT milling.  Hold the cutter in the 3 jaw chuck or a proper milling collet holder as used on a miller (as below), not the collet system that is designed for holding workpieces for turning etc. 

 

I have always had satisfactory results off my Myford ML7 (7" swing) using the good and concentric 3 jaw, the only drawback being the low spindle speed in relation to small diameter cutters.  It soon tells you if you are overdoing it!  Conversely, I have recently used a solid carbide 16mm 4 flute cutter to reduce the height of a mild steel surface and it quite happily took a quarter turn of the 8 tpi leadscrew as depth of cut, so long as I didn't wind the feed too quickly and took due regard of the direction of thrust against the traverse screws so it didn't jump.  The trickiet job is ball end millers.  The same job needed a quarter circle radius cutting with a 10mm cutter.  I roughed it with an ordinary cutter first and initially, the follow on profile cuts would take 20 thou quite happily, but finishing across the full profile allowed only about 2 - 5 thou at a time.

 

Apologies for the mixed units.  The price differential between metric sized tooling, screw threaded components etc. and Imperial ditto becomes greater by the minute.  Most of the time, it makes no odds whatosever to the job.

 

Eddie

 

On Friday, 10 July 2020, 04:18:21 BST, v.gearheardt@... <v.gearheardt@...> wrote:

 

 

Gentlemen,
Milling cutters are high speed steel and no Collet or chuck is going to hold them. Lathes are not mills! If you are insistent is using your lathe to hold mils you need to use a MT end mill holders and add a drawbar as previous thread states correctly.  I  set up an Atlas and all it wa good for was milling 3/16" keyways, which I can do just as well freehand with a die grinder. If you want to surface flat stock use a 4 jaw and a face tool.
THe right tool for the right job!