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RIP. SB 9B!

william twombley
 

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !
Rogan Creswick
 

I'm in the middle of rebuilding a 10k that went through the same sort of thing -- shop burned down, and we pulled it out of the rubble.  It's more work than it's worth, unless you really love the process.  

I started by tearing it apart (almost) completely (there are still a few things I'm struggling to disassemble), cleaning it up enough that I could get some measurements on the bed, and determined that it was still pretty darned flat & planar.  (I don't have the numbers at hand, but if I remember correctly it was only out about 0.005" across the full length of the bed, which is good enough for me).  

Then I spent the next *3-4 years* cleaning castings by hand (off-and-on; it was a slog, and it was really hard to keep motivated so lots of other projects got priority during that time).  I pulled off all the remaining lead paint, scrubbing burnt grease, etc... over the past 6 months I've finally been able to start priming & painting  (primer, flat base coat, and then 2 coats of RustOleum Hammered). I still need to strip, dismantle, and re-paint the tailstock assembly, clean all the gears & internals, and re-assemble with new felts, replace some oil cups, etc..

I would not do this again -- maybe with a much better blasting cabinet, and the means to contain the resulting lead dust, but even then I think I've invested very close to the cost of a nice second-hand lathe in materials and tools specifically for this project.

I'm keeping an on-going log of progress in this album: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNJ8SMQVGaPvnK-ACUyi4ZybfDGiurMADXclkWt9qOKUJ9Rc40XvDn4hrJK3QILcQ?key=RmFuSlFKdjRPRUNuSjU1bnJsZXd4LUg0VG1NcmZB if you want to see how the initial state compares to yours.

If you do decide to go this route, I'm happy to answer any questions that come up (if I can!).

--Rogan

On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 9:01 AM william twombley <twombo@...> wrote:

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !
wlw19958
 

Hi There,

If it were me, I would first evaluate the amount of rust scale that may have
formed on the precision surfaces.  If there isn't an appreciable amount severe
rust or scale, then I would probably tear it apart with the intention of rebuilding
it.  Of course if upon disassembly dire problems are revealed,  then I may
decide to part it out.  It would depend on the costs involved in restoration.

Rogan, my hat is off to you on your resurrection of your 10K.  Your choice of 
color is interesting (silver hammer tone) but I am more of a traditionalist.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
mike allen
 

               I don't think you will really know what you have there until you get it apart & can start checking parts like the bed , saddle & such for flatness .

Like mentioned , it will be labor intensive . What helped me with my rebuild is that I have a ultrasonic tank that fit everything but the bed, lead screw, rack and the large casting with the

        motor mount . I used the " awesome orange de greaser " from the dollar tree took everything down to bare metal . The headstock I just I soaked but don't remember if I used the ultrasonic .

        I had everything down to bare metal except the bed in a week & then I repainted with the paint recipe off the practical machinist forum . After paint I was back up & running in another

        week . Wear some grungy clothes unless you need new grungy clothes & go for it .

        good luck

        animal

On 6/4/2022 9:01 AM, william twombley wrote:

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !
Rogan Creswick
 

I tried an ultrasonic on small parts, and that (using Grime Reaper) didn't help that much -- what did seem to help some what was soaking in un-diluted Grime Reaper for ~24+ hours.  That generally turned the remaining paint to sludge, but not in all cases.

Nothing has worked on the gear train that got a very nice "seasoning" (like a cast iron pan) other than a wire wheel/soda blaster.  I'm just going to leave that polymerized coating as-is, since it doesn't seem like it'll do any harm.

I'm definitely not a traditionalist, and wouldn't call what I'm doing "restoration" by any means.  I just want a working lathe that I like the look of ;)

The hammered paint also has the benefit of going on very smoothly, even with cheap chip brushes and almost no experience painting machines.  I haven't had that kind of success with other paints, and spraying (even with rattle cans) isn't pragmatic for me -- just due to the time and space I have for this sort of project.

--Rogan

On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 10:55 AM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

               I don't think you will really know what you have there until you get it apart & can start checking parts like the bed , saddle & such for flatness .

Like mentioned , it will be labor intensive . What helped me with my rebuild is that I have a ultrasonic tank that fit everything but the bed, lead screw, rack and the large casting with the

        motor mount . I used the " awesome orange de greaser " from the dollar tree took everything down to bare metal . The headstock I just I soaked but don't remember if I used the ultrasonic .

        I had everything down to bare metal except the bed in a week & then I repainted with the paint recipe off the practical machinist forum . After paint I was back up & running in another

        week . Wear some grungy clothes unless you need new grungy clothes & go for it .

        good luck

        animal

On 6/4/2022 9:01 AM, william twombley wrote:

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !
eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Given that the Aluminium alloy bench collapsed due to the heat, this suggests that a number of things will have happened to the materials from which the lathe is constructed:


Any hardened or spring steel has been annealed. If one of the machine's virtues was hardened bedways, this no longer applies.


Any component containing built in stresses (castings, welded fabrications) has been stress relieved and has consequently changed shape. Also, any component that was subjected to stress while hot, with the load still in place during cooling, will have changed shape. All press or shrink fits can no longer be relied upon.


Any material such as mild steel, copper (tube?) brass etc. that was subjected to work hardening as part of the design strength or stiffness requirement has been annealed.


Aluminium alloys response to heat is complicated and composition dependant.


All lubricants, wicks and seals have been burned away.


Any "monkey metal" (zinc alloys as typically used for diecasting) have had it. If the composition can be determined, items could be used to narrow the range of temperatures experienced depending on what melted and what didn't.


All electrical insulation can no longer be relied upon, even if it still exists. Given this and bearing damage, the motor is scrap, as is the switchgear.


Fasteners, including rivets, will have lost their preloads as a result of the above. Also, any high strength fasteners have been annealed (see above) so are no longer high strength.


Please forgive me if this comes across as a little rude, but sometimes being be cruel to be kind is the best policy. I really feel for you as the victim of a fire, and hope you have insurance. If a loss adjuster tries to bargain you down, feel free to quote my above opinions. My qualifications are in one of my first posts on this site, or I can re-supply if required.


And people are wittering on about paint? Sorry folks, you couldn't give me this or any part of it, once I knew it had been in a fire. I must regretfully advise that it sounds as though it is a total loss.


Eddie
jonwoellhaf
 

Thanks, Eddie. Lots of good information I will file away and hope to never have apply any of it!
 
Sorry for your loss, OP.
 
Jan
 

From: eddie.draper@... via groups.io
Sent: June 4, 2022 13:31
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] RIP. SB 9B!
 

Given that the Aluminium alloy bench collapsed due to the heat, this suggests that a number of things will have happened to the materials from which the lathe is constructed:

 

Any hardened or spring steel has been annealed. If one of the machine's virtues was hardened bedways, this no longer applies.

 

Any component containing built in stresses (castings, welded fabrications) has been stress relieved and has consequently changed shape. Also, any component that was subjected to stress while hot, with the load still in place during cooling, will have changed shape. All press or shrink fits can no longer be relied upon.

 

Any material such as mild steel, copper (tube?) brass etc. that was subjected to work hardening as part of the design strength or stiffness requirement has been annealed.

 

Aluminium alloys response to heat is complicated and composition dependant.

 

All lubricants, wicks and seals have been burned away.

 

Any "monkey metal" (zinc alloys as typically used for diecasting) have had it. If the composition can be determined, items could be used to narrow the range of temperatures experienced depending on what melted and what didn't.

 

All electrical insulation can no longer be relied upon, even if it still exists. Given this and bearing damage, the motor is scrap, as is the switchgear.

 

Fasteners, including rivets, will have lost their preloads as a result of the above. Also, any high strength fasteners have been annealed (see above) so are no longer high strength.

 

Please forgive me if this comes across as a little rude, but sometimes being be cruel to be kind is the best policy. I really feel for you as the victim of a fire, and hope you have insurance. If a loss adjuster tries to bargain you down, feel free to quote my above opinions. My qualifications are in one of my first posts on this site, or I can re-supply if required.

 

And people are wittering on about paint? Sorry folks, you couldn't give me this or any part of it, once I knew it had been in a fire. I must regretfully advise that it sounds as though it is a total loss.

 

Eddie
mike allen
 

        I don't think your being ride at all . Just stating facts . But I have to wonder if cleaned up & reassembled will it make that parts that the guy that bought it wanted it to do ?


        animal

On 6/4/2022 12:31 PM, eddie.draper@... via groups.io wrote:

Given that the Aluminium alloy bench collapsed due to the heat, this suggests that a number of things will have happened to the materials from which the lathe is constructed:


Any hardened or spring steel has been annealed. If one of the machine's virtues was hardened bedways, this no longer applies.


Any component containing built in stresses (castings, welded fabrications) has been stress relieved and has consequently changed shape. Also, any component that was subjected to stress while hot, with the load still in place during cooling, will have changed shape. All press or shrink fits can no longer be relied upon.


Any material such as mild steel, copper (tube?) brass etc. that was subjected to work hardening as part of the design strength or stiffness requirement has been annealed.


Aluminium alloys response to heat is complicated and composition dependant.


All lubricants, wicks and seals have been burned away.


Any "monkey metal" (zinc alloys as typically used for diecasting) have had it. If the composition can be determined, items could be used to narrow the range of temperatures experienced depending on what melted and what didn't.


All electrical insulation can no longer be relied upon, even if it still exists. Given this and bearing damage, the motor is scrap, as is the switchgear.


Fasteners, including rivets, will have lost their preloads as a result of the above. Also, any high strength fasteners have been annealed (see above) so are no longer high strength.


Please forgive me if this comes across as a little rude, but sometimes being be cruel to be kind is the best policy. I really feel for you as the victim of a fire, and hope you have insurance. If a loss adjuster tries to bargain you down, feel free to quote my above opinions. My qualifications are in one of my first posts on this site, or I can re-supply if required.


And people are wittering on about paint? Sorry folks, you couldn't give me this or any part of it, once I knew it had been in a fire. I must regretfully advise that it sounds as though it is a total loss.


Eddie
ww_big_al
 

Eddie has a many good points. For myself, before I did anything, I would talk ed the insurance company. Unless it was used for business, homeowners’ insurance will cover it. They may cover a new replacement lathe or have it evaluated/repaired at a professional shop. If it is deemed scrap, get what you can and buy it back from them.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of eddie.draper@... via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2022 3:32 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] RIP. SB 9B!

 

Given that the Aluminium alloy bench collapsed due to the heat, this suggests that a number of things will have happened to the materials from which the lathe is constructed:

 

Any hardened or spring steel has been annealed. If one of the machine's virtues was hardened bedways, this no longer applies.

 

Any component containing built in stresses (castings, welded fabrications) has been stress relieved and has consequently changed shape. Also, any component that was subjected to stress while hot, with the load still in place during cooling, will have changed shape. All press or shrink fits can no longer be relied upon.

 

Any material such as mild steel, copper (tube?) brass etc. that was subjected to work hardening as part of the design strength or stiffness requirement has been annealed.

 

Aluminium alloys response to heat is complicated and composition dependant.

 

All lubricants, wicks and seals have been burned away.

 

Any "monkey metal" (zinc alloys as typically used for diecasting) have had it. If the composition can be determined, items could be used to narrow the range of temperatures experienced depending on what melted and what didn't.

 

All electrical insulation can no longer be relied upon, even if it still exists. Given this and bearing damage, the motor is scrap, as is the switchgear.

 

Fasteners, including rivets, will have lost their preloads as a result of the above. Also, any high strength fasteners have been annealed (see above) so are no longer high strength.

 

Please forgive me if this comes across as a little rude, but sometimes being be cruel to be kind is the best policy. I really feel for you as the victim of a fire, and hope you have insurance. If a loss adjuster tries to bargain you down, feel free to quote my above opinions. My qualifications are in one of my first posts on this site, or I can re-supply if required.

 

And people are wittering on about paint? Sorry folks, you couldn't give me this or any part of it, once I knew it had been in a fire. I must regretfully advise that it sounds as though it is a total loss.

 

Eddie
william twombley
 

      Thanks. “ animal”
My “Grey Ghost” will come to my new shop and. I will give it a “Shot.   I started with a really superb Bed.  Refurbished over 8 years to fine working. Condition.      As long as the. Bed is straight,  i’m willing to Go at it.    It was in. Top running condition.  This time,  i leveled it using my “master Level and    Straight turning with the Er40 collets is”no Fuss”. easy!

 i will remember to  put the V-Rib. Belt on it this time.  My only issue was the Horizontal drive .   I have used it side by side with a  mini Lathe.  The SB for big stuff and  the mini. For the fiddly stuff. 

  My motivation has been low. PTS,  i suppose! I’ve got plenty of. Bench space in the new shop,  so. it has a home.  I used a clapped out C model for 30 years,  till the. Headstock Died.  i Added. A powered apron and. Direct reading dials.   Looks like 3. Variations of Crossfeed screws in these over the years.  I have a short stem” one ,so. I made an extension to  fit the dial and thrust bearing and handle.  Easy. Peasy….     Scratched my head a lot there to make it all “jive”.    10 K. Compound with a Sb9 base casting,  was a straight up fit for center height.  I really have not ventured into the shop as My Battery bank may have released a lot of lead.  I have hazmat suits and respirators on hand.     I like the feel and simplicity. of a well tuned. SB 9.   My benchtop was  Laminated butcher block maple. And. Once set”. It stayed “True. Level and. Test Bar results stayed dead stable, literally for Years. Becase of  humidity Variations. I might see as much  as 5 tenths taper in 12”.  “Sweep”the Bed with the master level on the crosslide and no Twist at all!   Like a long term relation ship. Or aged wine.  Smooth and easy!   3 phase motor  and VFD from here! And that nice T Slot casting from MLA.  The one mod not done, yet!! let the games commence!  Finding my Loco Projects will. Take  some  sifting for the 21/2” and 71/2” gauge bits.  The cast iron stuff if not broken should be Ok!  Generic Machine tool grey as it was before, for me!  Finding my near perfect Halfnuts might be an issue but, i prefer the Slotted apron drive anyway! 


 thanks again!
Twombo
mike allen
 

        Well best of luck yo . I worry about my batteries in a fire also . Hopefully I won't ever have to experience that , though we had 3 cars fully packed for a month or so last year due to the

        Dixie Fire . We could see the flames from the top of our driveway . Has your insurance company finalized what they will do with the lathe ? I am thinking about doing something to

        make the footprint a bit smaller for my drive unit . Actually its not the footprint , it's how far the large pulley over hangs the back of the unit .

        animal

On 6/5/2022 11:09 AM, william twombley wrote:

      Thanks. “ animal”
My “Grey Ghost” will come to my new shop and. I will give it a “Shot.   I started with a really superb Bed.  Refurbished over 8 years to fine working. Condition.      As long as the. Bed is straight,  i’m willing to Go at it.    It was in. Top running condition.  This time,  i leveled it using my “master Level and    Straight turning with the Er40 collets is”no Fuss”. easy!

 i will remember to  put the V-Rib. Belt on it this time.  My only issue was the Horizontal drive .   I have used it side by side with a  mini Lathe.  The SB for big stuff and  the mini. For the fiddly stuff. 

  My motivation has been low. PTS,  i suppose! I’ve got plenty of. Bench space in the new shop,  so. it has a home.  I used a clapped out C model for 30 years,  till the. Headstock Died.  i Added. A powered apron and. Direct reading dials.   Looks like 3. Variations of Crossfeed screws in these over the years.  I have a short stem” one ,so. I made an extension to  fit the dial and thrust bearing and handle.  Easy. Peasy….     Scratched my head a lot there to make it all “jive”.    10 K. Compound with a Sb9 base casting,  was a straight up fit for center height.  I really have not ventured into the shop as My Battery bank may have released a lot of lead.  I have hazmat suits and respirators on hand.     I like the feel and simplicity. of a well tuned. SB 9.   My benchtop was  Laminated butcher block maple. And. Once set”. It stayed “True. Level and. Test Bar results stayed dead stable, literally for Years. Becase of  humidity Variations. I might see as much  as 5 tenths taper in 12”.  “Sweep”the Bed with the master level on the crosslide and no Twist at all!   Like a long term relation ship. Or aged wine.  Smooth and easy!   3 phase motor  and VFD from here! And that nice T Slot casting from MLA.  The one mod not done, yet!! let the games commence!  Finding my Loco Projects will. Take  some  sifting for the 21/2” and 71/2” gauge bits.  The cast iron stuff if not broken should be Ok!  Generic Machine tool grey as it was before, for me!  Finding my near perfect Halfnuts might be an issue but, i prefer the Slotted apron drive anyway! 


 thanks again!
Twombo

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