Topics

Serpentine > Motor conversion


 

Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,


mike allen
 

        I have a DC treadmill motor on my 9A , seems to work ok though I can bog it down . what ever ya do just remember these machines have plain bearings in the  head stock & ya cant crank them up like ya can a lathe

        that has ball/tapered roller bearings

        animal

On 9/13/2020 7:04 PM, Brian via groups.io wrote:
Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,


George Meinschein
 

Brian,

So far, I'm using whatever motors came with the lathes I've picked up.  I haven't run 220 to my garage yet for my 14.5", but that will ultimately be the 3 phase motor that it came with and a VFD to get me from the 220V 1 phase supply.  My 9-inchers and 10K are all 120V, single phase.  No plans to go with anything different at this point.

Thanks,
George H. Meinschein, P.E.

WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearms

Meinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC
150 Brittany Drive
Freehold, NJ 07728-1500
Email: bustedguns@...
Direct Dial: 732-409-0778
Cell: 732-580-1736
www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/13/2020 10:04 PM, Brian via groups.io wrote:
Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,

Virus-free. www.avast.com


 

Thanks George! Appreciate your time and response. Yeh - I too need to run a new 220V line for this, and
a few other toys I've been planning for. Maybe I should start looking at VFDs instead, got any good
recommendations?

B,

On Monday, September 14, 2020, 12:40:53 PM EDT, George Meinschein <bustedguns@...> wrote:


Brian,

So far, I'm using whatever motors came with the lathes I've picked up.  I haven't run 220 to my garage yet for my 14.5", but that will ultimately be the 3 phase motor that it came with and a VFD to get me from the 220V 1 phase supply.  My 9-inchers and 10K are all 120V, single phase.  No plans to go with anything different at this point.

Thanks,George H. Meinschein, P.E.WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearmsMeinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC150 Brittany DriveFreehold, NJ 07728-1500Email: bustedguns@...Direct Dial: 732-409-0778Cell: 732-580-1736www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/13/2020 10:04 PM, Brian via groups.io wrote:
Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Bill in OKC too
 

I'm gonna say you need 220VAC wiring AND a VFD. That way you can put the 220VAC  tools elsewhere in your shop, too. I have ONE 220VAC line in my shop, and it's very limiting. Two or three would be better, and much better. ;) It is more expensive that way, but will pay dividends in the long run. Fortunately, my walls are still open so I can make changes and additions to the wiring. The one is a 40A circuit originally installed for my old welder, it would be really good to have at least a couple more in the 30A or 40A range. One in 40A by the outside door would be really good, that way I could take welding work outside. That isn't possible now. I have a VFD to run my Lewis shaper, 30A would be plenty for it, but one of these days there's going to be a Heavy 10L set up, and it would probably like a bit more current. Motor that came with it doesn't have a data plate, but by size might me a 1 or 1.5HP motor, or maybe just a really old 3/4HP. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Monday, September 14, 2020, 01:28:12 PM CDT, Brian via groups.io <bd_ski@...> wrote:


Thanks George! Appreciate your time and response. Yeh - I too need to run a new 220V line for this, and
a few other toys I've been planning for. Maybe I should start looking at VFDs instead, got any good
recommendations?

B,
On Monday, September 14, 2020, 12:40:53 PM EDT, George Meinschein <bustedguns@...> wrote:


Brian,

So far, I'm using whatever motors came with the lathes I've picked up.  I haven't run 220 to my garage yet for my 14.5", but that will ultimately be the 3 phase motor that it came with and a VFD to get me from the 220V 1 phase supply.  My 9-inchers and 10K are all 120V, single phase.  No plans to go with anything different at this point.

Thanks,George H. Meinschein, P.E.WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearmsMeinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC150 Brittany DriveFreehold, NJ 07728-1500Email: bustedguns@...Direct Dial: 732-409-0778Cell: 732-580-1736www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/13/2020 10:04 PM, Brian via groups.io wrote:
Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,

Virus-free. www.avast.com


George Meinschein
 

Brian,

I started looking into narrowing down a VFD selection a year or so ago and now I forget which one I thought looked like a good choice.  Wouldn't surprise me if the best choice has would probably be different today.  There are a bunch of posts on the topic if you search in the group messages and some decent VFD tutorials on YouTube.

Thanks,
George H. Meinschein, P.E.

WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearms

Meinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC
150 Brittany Drive
Freehold, NJ 07728-1500
Email: bustedguns@...
Direct Dial: 732-409-0778
Cell: 732-580-1736
www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/14/2020 2:40 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

I'm gonna say you need 220VAC wiring AND a VFD. That way you can put the 220VAC  tools elsewhere in your shop, too. I have ONE 220VAC line in my shop, and it's very limiting. Two or three would be better, and much better. ;) It is more expensive that way, but will pay dividends in the long run. Fortunately, my walls are still open so I can make changes and additions to the wiring. The one is a 40A circuit originally installed for my old welder, it would be really good to have at least a couple more in the 30A or 40A range. One in 40A by the outside door would be really good, that way I could take welding work outside. That isn't possible now. I have a VFD to run my Lewis shaper, 30A would be plenty for it, but one of these days there's going to be a Heavy 10L set up, and it would probably like a bit more current. Motor that came with it doesn't have a data plate, but by size might me a 1 or 1.5HP motor, or maybe just a really old 3/4HP. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Monday, September 14, 2020, 01:28:12 PM CDT, Brian via groups.io <bd_ski@...> wrote:


Thanks George! Appreciate your time and response. Yeh - I too need to run a new 220V line for this, and
a few other toys I've been planning for. Maybe I should start looking at VFDs instead, got any good
recommendations?

B,
On Monday, September 14, 2020, 12:40:53 PM EDT, George Meinschein <bustedguns@...> wrote:


Brian,

So far, I'm using whatever motors came with the lathes I've picked up.  I haven't run 220 to my garage yet for my 14.5", but that will ultimately be the 3 phase motor that it came with and a VFD to get me from the 220V 1 phase supply.  My 9-inchers and 10K are all 120V, single phase.  No plans to go with anything different at this point.

Thanks,George H. Meinschein, P.E.WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearmsMeinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC150 Brittany DriveFreehold, NJ 07728-1500Email: bustedguns@...Direct Dial: 732-409-0778Cell: 732-580-1736www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/13/2020 10:04 PM, Brian via groups.io wrote:
Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Todd
 

I have a 1947 Logan 10" (820) running on a 1.25HP DC treadmill motor. I used the treadmill motor/speed controller outnif it as well and it works great. I can strain it with a heavy cut but it recovers pretty fast.

 As for VFD selection, I have a garden variety Chinese import 3HP from Amazon ($90) that I ran my 2HP J head bridgeport on with ZERO issues.  Buy a cheap one that's a little larger than the load (20% should be fine) and don't look back.  For the price, it's not worth the option paralysis. Just go cheap !


 

Thumbs up on everything you said. I'd love to put in three 220V lines. Three things in mind: Lathe, Mill(eventually), and a nice old spare outlet for a new
welding machine that I need for that spare outlet. Lol

Brian,

On Monday, September 14, 2020, 02:40:59 PM EDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


I'm gonna say you need 220VAC wiring AND a VFD. That way you can put the 220VAC  tools elsewhere in your shop, too. I have ONE 220VAC line in my shop, and it's very limiting. Two or three would be better, and much better. ;) It is more expensive that way, but will pay dividends in the long run. Fortunately, my walls are still open so I can make changes and additions to the wiring. The one is a 40A circuit originally installed for my old welder, it would be really good to have at least a couple more in the 30A or 40A range. One in 40A by the outside door would be really good, that way I could take welding work outside. That isn't possible now. I have a VFD to run my Lewis shaper, 30A would be plenty for it, but one of these days there's going to be a Heavy 10L set up, and it would probably like a bit more current. Motor that came with it doesn't have a data plate, but by size might me a 1 or 1.5HP motor, or maybe just a really old 3/4HP. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Monday, September 14, 2020, 01:28:12 PM CDT, Brian via groups.io <bd_ski@...> wrote:


Thanks George! Appreciate your time and response. Yeh - I too need to run a new 220V line for this, and
a few other toys I've been planning for. Maybe I should start looking at VFDs instead, got any good
recommendations?

B,
On Monday, September 14, 2020, 12:40:53 PM EDT, George Meinschein <bustedguns@...> wrote:


Brian,

So far, I'm using whatever motors came with the lathes I've picked up.  I haven't run 220 to my garage yet for my 14.5", but that will ultimately be the 3 phase motor that it came with and a VFD to get me from the 220V 1 phase supply.  My 9-inchers and 10K are all 120V, single phase.  No plans to go with anything different at this point.

Thanks,George H. Meinschein, P.E.WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearmsMeinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC150 Brittany DriveFreehold, NJ 07728-1500Email: bustedguns@...Direct Dial: 732-409-0778Cell: 732-580-1736www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/13/2020 10:04 PM, Brian via groups.io wrote:
Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,

Virus-free. www.avast.com


 

yep - thumbs up!

On Monday, September 14, 2020, 02:46:06 PM EDT, George Meinschein <bustedguns@...> wrote:


Brian,

I started looking into narrowing down a VFD selection a year or so ago and now I forget which one I thought looked like a good choice.  Wouldn't surprise me if the best choice has would probably be different today.  There are a bunch of posts on the topic if you search in the group messages and some decent VFD tutorials on YouTube.

Thanks,George H. Meinschein, P.E.WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearmsMeinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC150 Brittany DriveFreehold, NJ 07728-1500Email: bustedguns@...Direct Dial: 732-409-0778Cell: 732-580-1736www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/14/2020 2:40 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:
I'm gonna say you need 220VAC wiring AND a VFD. That way you can put the 220VAC  tools elsewhere in your shop, too. I have ONE 220VAC line in my shop, and it's very limiting. Two or three would be better, and much better. ;) It is more expensive that way, but will pay dividends in the long run. Fortunately, my walls are still open so I can make changes and additions to the wiring. The one is a 40A circuit originally installed for my old welder, it would be really good to have at least a couple more in the 30A or 40A range. One in 40A by the outside door would be really good, that way I could take welding work outside. That isn't possible now. I have a VFD to run my Lewis shaper, 30A would be plenty for it, but one of these days there's going to be a Heavy 10L set up, and it would probably like a bit more current. Motor that came with it doesn't have a data plate, but by size might me a 1 or 1.5HP motor, or maybe just a really old 3/4HP. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Monday, September 14, 2020, 01:28:12 PM CDT, Brian via groups.io <bd_ski@...> wrote:


Thanks George! Appreciate your time and response. Yeh - I too need to run a new 220V line for this, and
a few other toys I've been planning for. Maybe I should start looking at VFDs instead, got any good
recommendations?

B,
On Monday, September 14, 2020, 12:40:53 PM EDT, George Meinschein <bustedguns@...> wrote:


Brian,

So far, I'm using whatever motors came with the lathes I've picked up.  I haven't run 220 to my garage yet for my 14.5", but that will ultimately be the 3 phase motor that it came with and a VFD to get me from the 220V 1 phase supply.  My 9-inchers and 10K are all 120V, single phase.  No plans to go with anything different at this point.

Thanks,George H. Meinschein, P.E.WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearmsMeinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC150 Brittany DriveFreehold, NJ 07728-1500Email: bustedguns@...Direct Dial: 732-409-0778Cell: 732-580-1736www.meinscheinengineering.com
On 9/13/2020 10:04 PM, Brian via groups.io wrote:
Since we're talking drive belts, may I ask what everyone is using for your motors?   I have my original drive motor/assembly,
but I've been thinking how well it might work putting a DC motor on a speed controller?  I'd be very interested in hearing what
other folks have done?  I had gotten my hands on an almost free ($250) southbend 11" lathe, complete with a lot of tooling,
chucks, etc.  Just getting around to restoring/cleaning sections of it up, and I'm eager to get this thing up and running!  

Thanks in advance for recommendation or suggestions
Brian,

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Nick Jonkman
 

A couple of things to remember. 220 Volt only draws  half the current that 110 volt does so you don't need as heavy a circuit. I used a 2hp motor on my wood lathe with a 2 hp VFD. The first time I ran it and stalled the motor I blew the drive. Now have a 3 hp VFD on it and it don't stall now. It is a Chinese VFD

Nick


On 20-09-14 2:54 PM, Todd wrote:
I have a 1947 Logan 10" (820) running on a 1.25HP DC treadmill motor. I used the treadmill motor/speed controller outnif it as well and it works great. I can strain it with a heavy cut but it recovers pretty fast.

 As for VFD selection, I have a garden variety Chinese import 3HP from Amazon ($90) that I ran my 2HP J head bridgeport on with ZERO issues.  Buy a cheap one that's a little larger than the load (20% should be fine) and don't look back.  For the price, it's not worth the option paralysis. Just go cheap !


George Meinschein
 

Brian,
I found the YouTube video series that I watched about setting up a VFD for a lathe. I thought they did a great job explaining everything. Here's the link to Part 1 of the series:

https://youtu.be/apQKgs_D0DM

Thanks,
George H. Meinschein, P.E.

WANTED: Bent, busted, rusted, and/or generally dysfunctional "C&R Eligible" firearms

Meinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC
150 Brittany Drive
Freehold, NJ 07728-1500

Email: bustedguns@...
Direct Dial: 732-409-0778
Cell: 732-580-1736
www.meinscheinengineering.com

   


On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 4:21 PM Nick Jonkman <njonkman@...> wrote:

A couple of things to remember. 220 Volt only draws  half the current that 110 volt does so you don't need as heavy a circuit. I used a 2hp motor on my wood lathe with a 2 hp VFD. The first time I ran it and stalled the motor I blew the drive. Now have a 3 hp VFD on it and it don't stall now. It is a Chinese VFD

Nick


On 20-09-14 2:54 PM, Todd wrote:
I have a 1947 Logan 10" (820) running on a 1.25HP DC treadmill motor. I used the treadmill motor/speed controller outnif it as well and it works great. I can strain it with a heavy cut but it recovers pretty fast.

 As for VFD selection, I have a garden variety Chinese import 3HP from Amazon ($90) that I ran my 2HP J head bridgeport on with ZERO issues.  Buy a cheap one that's a little larger than the load (20% should be fine) and don't look back.  For the price, it's not worth the option paralysis. Just go cheap !


Mark Z
 

Unfortunately that is a terrible VFD installation video.  There are many serious errors and misinformation.  It is not a 1.15 Service Factor motor when used with a drive - it is derated to 1.0 service factor, it is 10:1 speed range on that motor only in variable torque mode - a lathe is a constant torque load, etc.......

Here are some pointers you should follow:

- what ever drive you buy, make sure it has sensorless vector mode.  Then set it up for sensorless vector mode and use autotone.
- make sure that the drive has a braking resistor transistor then use a braking resistor to help stop the spindle.  They are cheap.
- Do not use SO, SOOW, STO, or any other SO configuration cable.  Very poor choice.  You really want a shielded cable with the shield bonded at the drive and motor.  If not shielded, then try to put it in metallic flexible conduit or combined solid metallic conduit and metallic flex conduit.  And  use twisted XLPE insulation wires if in conduit - twist them yourself.  If you choose to ignore shielding, at least use XLPE insulated cable.

That's a start..........

I have a WEG, 3hp, 240 volt, single phase in, 3 phase out drive on my SB 16" lathe.  It has a Siemens 3 hp motor.  I have a braking resistor and have it set up for sensorless vector mode.  The drive is less than $300 new.  I was knurling this past weekend.  I turned it down to about 8% speed with the speed pot and knurled away.  Great results - it never blinked.  Other than threading, I have not done anything on the lathe including tapping external 3/8-16 threads using a die that I needed to put it in low gear.  The low end (slow rpm)  torque is outstanding.
--
1969 16" x 6' South Bend Lathe
Garage full of old Mopars........


Rogan Creswick
 

Thanks Mark,  I don't pretend to know much about VFDs -- could you give a bit of detail about the "why" behind your suggestions? I'd like to get a sense for the different options, and while a list of Do's and Don'ts is helpful, I generally can't remember anything if there's no justification.

(And as an aside: I'd probably rip my arms off if I had a 3hp motor in back gears on my 10k. I can't imagine needing that much torque -- What do you make with your 16?)

--Rogan

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:02 PM Mark Z via groups.io <bode528=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Unfortunately that is a terrible VFD installation video.  There are many serious errors and misinformation.  It is not a 1.15 Service Factor motor when used with a drive - it is derated to 1.0 service factor, it is 10:1 speed range on that motor only in variable torque mode - a lathe is a constant torque load, etc.......

Here are some pointers you should follow:

- what ever drive you buy, make sure it has sensorless vector mode.  Then set it up for sensorless vector mode and use autotone.
- make sure that the drive has a braking resistor transistor then use a braking resistor to help stop the spindle.  They are cheap.
- Do not use SO, SOOW, STO, or any other SO configuration cable.  Very poor choice.  You really want a shielded cable with the shield bonded at the drive and motor.  If not shielded, then try to put it in metallic flexible conduit or combined solid metallic conduit and metallic flex conduit.  And  use twisted XLPE insulation wires if in conduit - twist them yourself.  If you choose to ignore shielding, at least use XLPE insulated cable.

That's a start..........

I have a WEG, 3hp, 240 volt, single phase in, 3 phase out drive on my SB 16" lathe.  It has a Siemens 3 hp motor.  I have a braking resistor and have it set up for sensorless vector mode.  The drive is less than $300 new.  I was knurling this past weekend.  I turned it down to about 8% speed with the speed pot and knurled away.  Great results - it never blinked.  Other than threading, I have not done anything on the lathe including tapping external 3/8-16 threads using a die that I needed to put it in low gear.  The low end (slow rpm)  torque is outstanding.
--
1969 16" x 6' South Bend Lathe
Garage full of old Mopars........


comstock_friend
 

Best thing I did years ago was to pull 240 volts from the house main breaker to a 125 AMP sub panel in the garage. 240 single phase runs the Rotary Phase Converter. The RPC runs a Bridgeport, 13" South Bend and a Diamond B12 horizontal mill at 240/3/60. Yes, I'm changing belts but no changes in the electrical controls that came with the machines was required. The 240 single phase also runs my Lincoln welder...

At the vacation house, my wife's Grandfather had already wired the shop for 240 single phase. I have a Rusnok vertical mill running on a Leeson 190 Volt DC motor (240/1/60 input to the controller). This can have the speed varied with a potentiometer. A Diamond 22M horizontal mill has a VFD attached to its 240/3/60 motor.

John


 

Nice - sounds like you are hooked up! That's what I did in my previous shop -
ran a nice line to a sub panel for running a jumbo melting kiln, and some CNC equipment.

I think we'll be moving in spring, and don't feel like investing the time in something I'll use
briefly, and then someone else might not even appreciate (next owner).

Brian,

On Friday, September 18, 2020, 12:50:59 PM EDT, comstock_friend <jfriend314@...> wrote:


Best thing I did years ago was to pull 240 volts from the house main breaker to a 125 AMP sub panel in the garage. 240 single phase runs the Rotary Phase Converter. The RPC runs a Bridgeport, 13" South Bend and a Diamond B12 horizontal mill at 240/3/60. Yes, I'm changing belts but no changes in the electrical controls that came with the machines was required. The 240 single phase also runs my Lincoln welder...

At the vacation house, my wife's Grandfather had already wired the shop for 240 single phase. I have a Rusnok vertical mill running on a Leeson 190 Volt DC motor (240/1/60 input to the controller). This can have the speed varied with a potentiometer. A Diamond 22M horizontal mill has a VFD attached to its 240/3/60 motor.

John


Louis
 

Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


Glen Ruch
 

Thanks Louis

On 9/19/20 3:35 PM, Louis via groups.io wrote:
Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


 

Hello Louis,

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share your experience and thoughts on the VFD's and
what you've used. Your information really helped me out, and I'll put it to good use.

I do have a subsequent question - if I would go variable speed with a VFD, would I need to use the original
drive motor assembly/drive cone.?. or is that just a matter of preference?

Regards
Brian,

On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 03:35:17 PM EDT, Louis via groups.io <l_schoolkate@...> wrote:


Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


Guenther Paul
 

Louis
Can you show me a picture of the box you use for the VFD and how you vent it. Do you use a filter over the box . Also where 
Can i get a the boxes. I am looking for a 12"x12"x12" box with a full access door . My electrical supplier does not have them in that size configuration 

GP


On Monday, September 21, 2020, 10:37:15 PM EDT, Brian via groups.io <bd_ski@...> wrote:


Hello Louis,

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share your experience and thoughts on the VFD's and
what you've used. Your information really helped me out, and I'll put it to good use.

I do have a subsequent question - if I would go variable speed with a VFD, would I need to use the original
drive motor assembly/drive cone.?. or is that just a matter of preference?

Regards
Brian,

On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 03:35:17 PM EDT, Louis via groups.io <l_schoolkate@...> wrote:


Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


Louis
 

Brian - I would keep the original drive assembly if I had it and use the VFD to power it and add the variable speed capability. That way you have the best of both worlds. Plus I like to keep the original drive so it looks original. Some future owner might prefer that.

Guenther - My boxes are not from the same source. Typically I use whatever's lying around the shop or down at the local industrial surplus yard. Since I use remote controls I rarely need access so I have them both with doors or screwed on covers.  I maintain the manufacturers recommended clearances so that determines the minimum size. Sizes are roughly 16x12x7. I vent at the top and bottom. I modify typical duct venting covers with a piece of those green furnace filters on the inside. BTW, if you can't find a box locally, Factorymation has them in a wide variety of sizes.  It will cost you though.

Since I enclose the VFD, to get the speeds right I typically mount a speed table on or somewhere close to every machine that shows the configuration/pot setting needed.  

Adding one more thing. I've also built a portable VFD power unit. Just a VFD inside a correct size and vented plastic toolbox. It has externally mounted controls, an input cord and a 3 phase socket. I use it occasionally to temporarily power up or test 3 phase machines and motors.

Louis