Topics

Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to


Roger Bickers
 

You dont need a milling attachment to cut a key way on the lathe. Especially if you've got a follow rest... just set your tool bits center on center (on its edge 90° to the left from normal) and with light cuts move the carriage down the length with the handwheel and etch it in. 


On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 7:37 PM, Harley Schlinger via groups.io
<old1940@...> wrote:

I have cut many of keys with a milling attachment on a 10 inch Logan and now my 14inch South Bend over the past 50 years, Lathes were around many years before milling machines just look at the tooling that was made for the Old South Been Lathes say nothing about all the tooling that Machinist came up for a special item they were making, it’s all about Time and Ingenuity, Just rember the first lathe was not built on a lathe so don’t say it CAN’T BE DONE.

P.S.  You can keep Hammering Bamboo under your finger nails I don’t do pain,



On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 12:08:13 PM PDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


You cannot cut the keyway with the lathe attachment. Well, you probably could, but it would be easier to hammer bamboo sticks under your fingernails. 

Ideally, you would have a friend with a mill large enough to cut it in one pass, but if not, you could set it up and cut the keyway in sections. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Mark Moulding <mark@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 10:55 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to 9-B conversion (no quickchange)?
 
My next question was going to be about how difficult it would be to cut that keyway.  I have a bench-top mill, and also the milling attachment for the South Bend (and I guess there'd be no problem running it without a lead screw for a while).

It seems to me that a huge amount of precision wouldn't be necessary, but it would be a whole new operation for me, and therefore a bit intimidating.  What would be the best way to hold the screw in a vise - rigidly, but without damage?  In fact, what would the whole procedure be?  (I got the "do it in sections" part.)  That screw is probably hardened, right?  So, carbide cutters? A milling saw if I can come up with one? Anyone know the dimensions of that keyway?

Or is this dicey enough that I should just wait until a 9B leadscrew surfaces on eBay?  (It's a 36" six-speed - the absolute cheapest model one could buy.  My dad bought it new...)

Thanks for the input - I really appreciate it!
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Andrei
 

Are we talking about cutting a 42" long keyway?

Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Roger Bickers via groups.io <mr.concrete1964@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:49:59 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to
 
You dont need a milling attachment to cut a key way on the lathe. Especially if you've got a follow rest... just set your tool bits center on center (on its edge 90° to the left from normal) and with light cuts move the carriage down the length with the handwheel and etch it in. 


On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 7:37 PM, Harley Schlinger via groups.io
<old1940@...> wrote:

I have cut many of keys with a milling attachment on a 10 inch Logan and now my 14inch South Bend over the past 50 years, Lathes were around many years before milling machines just look at the tooling that was made for the Old South Been Lathes say nothing about all the tooling that Machinist came up for a special item they were making, it’s all about Time and Ingenuity, Just rember the first lathe was not built on a lathe so don’t say it CAN’T BE DONE.

P.S.  You can keep Hammering Bamboo under your finger nails I don’t do pain,



On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 12:08:13 PM PDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


You cannot cut the keyway with the lathe attachment. Well, you probably could, but it would be easier to hammer bamboo sticks under your fingernails. 

Ideally, you would have a friend with a mill large enough to cut it in one pass, but if not, you could set it up and cut the keyway in sections. 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Mark Moulding <mark@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 10:55 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to 9-B conversion (no quickchange)?
 
My next question was going to be about how difficult it would be to cut that keyway.  I have a bench-top mill, and also the milling attachment for the South Bend (and I guess there'd be no problem running it without a lead screw for a while).

It seems to me that a huge amount of precision wouldn't be necessary, but it would be a whole new operation for me, and therefore a bit intimidating.  What would be the best way to hold the screw in a vise - rigidly, but without damage?  In fact, what would the whole procedure be?  (I got the "do it in sections" part.)  That screw is probably hardened, right?  So, carbide cutters? A milling saw if I can come up with one? Anyone know the dimensions of that keyway?

Or is this dicey enough that I should just wait until a 9B leadscrew surfaces on eBay?  (It's a 36" six-speed - the absolute cheapest model one could buy.  My dad bought it new...)

Thanks for the input - I really appreciate it!
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Mark Moulding
 

Having done a little more research, I now have a new concern.  Firstly, I think I probably could cut the keyway on the lathe, certainly with the milling attachment, but I could also probably figure out a way to do it without.  With the attachment, it certainly wouldn't be painless, but I don't think it would be bamboo splinters either.  But I have that table-top mill, and although I'd still have to do it in sections, I don't think it would be too bad.

But my new worry is what happens to the lead screw after I cut the slot.  I'm assuming this was hardened at least a bit (maybe case-hardened?), and probably stress relieved - at least until I remove an asymmetrical amount of metal from it.  I bet it's going to turn into a nice bow, and I can't see how I would easily get it back to more-or-less straight again.  It looks to me like a *very* slight deviation from straight might be tolerated, because the driven worm is suspended by bearings that might force the lead screw back into line, but it sounds pretty icky (and I'm not sure, either - I was just going from a drawing, since I haven't taken mine apart yet).

Another related question: how long is the bed of a 36" lathe? The serial card for mine claims it's a 3' lathe, but the bed is exactly 42" long - which is it?  (Just in case I do find a lead screw on eBay...)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


m. allan noah
 

The screw is not hardened, but yes, it may warp a bit. It wont be
much, and you can straighten it by hand.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:00 AM Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:

Having done a little more research, I now have a new concern. Firstly, I think I probably could cut the keyway on the lathe, certainly with the milling attachment, but I could also probably figure out a way to do it without. With the attachment, it certainly wouldn't be painless, but I don't think it would be bamboo splinters either. But I have that table-top mill, and although I'd still have to do it in sections, I don't think it would be too bad.

But my new worry is what happens to the lead screw after I cut the slot. I'm assuming this was hardened at least a bit (maybe case-hardened?), and probably stress relieved - at least until I remove an asymmetrical amount of metal from it. I bet it's going to turn into a nice bow, and I can't see how I would easily get it back to more-or-less straight again. It looks to me like a *very* slight deviation from straight might be tolerated, because the driven worm is suspended by bearings that might force the lead screw back into line, but it sounds pretty icky (and I'm not sure, either - I was just going from a drawing, since I haven't taken mine apart yet).

Another related question: how long is the bed of a 36" lathe? The serial card for mine claims it's a 3' lathe, but the bed is exactly 42" long - which is it? (Just in case I do find a lead screw on eBay...)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear

--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"


George Meinschein
 

Mark,
3' bed measures about 36-1/2" and the B and C leadscrews are about 39-3/4". 

Thanks,
George H. Meinschein, P.E.

Meinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC
150 Brittany Drive
Freehold, NJ 07728-1500

Email: george.meinschein@...
Direct Dial: 732-409-0778
Cell: 732-580-1736
Fax: 732-358-0369
www.meinscheinengineering.com

   


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 7:20 AM m. allan noah <kitno455@...> wrote:
The screw is not hardened, but yes, it may warp a bit. It wont be
much, and you can straighten it by hand.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:00 AM Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:
>
> Having done a little more research, I now have a new concern.  Firstly, I think I probably could cut the keyway on the lathe, certainly with the milling attachment, but I could also probably figure out a way to do it without.  With the attachment, it certainly wouldn't be painless, but I don't think it would be bamboo splinters either.  But I have that table-top mill, and although I'd still have to do it in sections, I don't think it would be too bad.
>
> But my new worry is what happens to the lead screw after I cut the slot.  I'm assuming this was hardened at least a bit (maybe case-hardened?), and probably stress relieved - at least until I remove an asymmetrical amount of metal from it.  I bet it's going to turn into a nice bow, and I can't see how I would easily get it back to more-or-less straight again.  It looks to me like a *very* slight deviation from straight might be tolerated, because the driven worm is suspended by bearings that might force the lead screw back into line, but it sounds pretty icky (and I'm not sure, either - I was just going from a drawing, since I haven't taken mine apart yet).
>
> Another related question: how long is the bed of a 36" lathe? The serial card for mine claims it's a 3' lathe, but the bed is exactly 42" long - which is it?  (Just in case I do find a lead screw on eBay...)
> ~~
>
> Mark Moulding
> South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear
>
>



--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"




carbure2003
 

Key way can be cut without issue on a small mill  .  The  operation does not require critical accuracy. Key way is to be wide enough for the apron worm key. This key is 3/16 wide and about 3” long.
Make sure you debur the thread after
conversion of a model A screw is not difficult. I would just turn an extension piece and lock it to the screw with a taper or cotter pin


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Mark Moulding" <mark@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 02:00:54 -0700

Having done a little more research, I now have a new concern.  Firstly, I think I probably could cut the keyway on the lathe, certainly with the milling attachment, but I could also probably figure out a way to do it without.  With the attachment, it certainly wouldn't be painless, but I don't think it would be bamboo splinters either.  But I have that table-top mill, and although I'd still have to do it in sections, I don't think it would be too bad.

But my new worry is what happens to the lead screw after I cut the slot.  I'm assuming this was hardened at least a bit (maybe case-hardened?), and probably stress relieved - at least until I remove an asymmetrical amount of metal from it.  I bet it's going to turn into a nice bow, and I can't see how I would easily get it back to more-or-less straight again.  It looks to me like a *very* slight deviation from straight might be tolerated, because the driven worm is suspended by bearings that might force the lead screw back into line, but it sounds pretty icky (and I'm not sure, either - I was just going from a drawing, since I haven't taken mine apart yet).

Another related question: how long is the bed of a 36" lathe? The serial card for mine claims it's a 3' lathe, but the bed is exactly 42" long - which is it?  (Just in case I do find a lead screw on eBay...)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Roger Bickers
 

Be sure when you make your key that you cut it a half inch longer than the worm gear and that you use a piece larger in thickness than the true keys thickness so you can leave "dog ears" on each end of the worm. If you dont, the key will slip out as the saddle travels.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:52 AM, carbure2003
<guycad@...> wrote:
Key way can be cut without issue on a small mill  .  The  operation does not require critical accuracy. Key way is to be wide enough for the apron worm key. This key is 3/16 wide and about 3” long.
Make sure you debur the thread after
conversion of a model A screw is not difficult. I would just turn an extension piece and lock it to the screw with a taper or cotter pin


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Mark Moulding" <mark@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 02:00:54 -0700

Having done a little more research, I now have a new concern.  Firstly, I think I probably could cut the keyway on the lathe, certainly with the milling attachment, but I could also probably figure out a way to do it without.  With the attachment, it certainly wouldn't be painless, but I don't think it would be bamboo splinters either.  But I have that table-top mill, and although I'd still have to do it in sections, I don't think it would be too bad.

But my new worry is what happens to the lead screw after I cut the slot.  I'm assuming this was hardened at least a bit (maybe case-hardened?), and probably stress relieved - at least until I remove an asymmetrical amount of metal from it.  I bet it's going to turn into a nice bow, and I can't see how I would easily get it back to more-or-less straight again.  It looks to me like a *very* slight deviation from straight might be tolerated, because the driven worm is suspended by bearings that might force the lead screw back into line, but it sounds pretty icky (and I'm not sure, either - I was just going from a drawing, since I haven't taken mine apart yet).

Another related question: how long is the bed of a 36" lathe? The serial card for mine claims it's a 3' lathe, but the bed is exactly 42" long - which is it?  (Just in case I do find a lead screw on eBay...)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


mike allen
 

        why don't ya do it on the lathe with the follower rest & a die grinder with a nice new endmill  in the tool post

        animal

On 4/2/2020 2:00 AM, Mark Moulding wrote:
Having done a little more research, I now have a new concern.  Firstly, I think I probably could cut the keyway on the lathe, certainly with the milling attachment, but I could also probably figure out a way to do it without.  With the attachment, it certainly wouldn't be painless, but I don't think it would be bamboo splinters either.  But I have that table-top mill, and although I'd still have to do it in sections, I don't think it would be too bad.

But my new worry is what happens to the lead screw after I cut the slot.  I'm assuming this was hardened at least a bit (maybe case-hardened?), and probably stress relieved - at least until I remove an asymmetrical amount of metal from it.  I bet it's going to turn into a nice bow, and I can't see how I would easily get it back to more-or-less straight again.  It looks to me like a *very* slight deviation from straight might be tolerated, because the driven worm is suspended by bearings that might force the lead screw back into line, but it sounds pretty icky (and I'm not sure, either - I was just going from a drawing, since I haven't taken mine apart yet).

Another related question: how long is the bed of a 36" lathe? The serial card for mine claims it's a 3' lathe, but the bed is exactly 42" long - which is it?  (Just in case I do find a lead screw on eBay...)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


mike allen
 

        what's the diameter of the lead screw , can it fit through the chuck & spindle ?

        animal

On 4/2/2020 5:58 AM, George Meinschein wrote:
Mark,
3' bed measures about 36-1/2" and the B and C leadscrews are about 39-3/4". 

Thanks,
George H. Meinschein, P.E.

Meinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC
150 Brittany Drive
Freehold, NJ 07728-1500

Email: george.meinschein@...
Direct Dial: 732-409-0778
Cell: 732-580-1736
Fax: 732-358-0369
www.meinscheinengineering.com

   

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 7:20 AM m. allan noah <kitno455@...> wrote:
The screw is not hardened, but yes, it may warp a bit. It wont be
much, and you can straighten it by hand.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:00 AM Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:
>
> Having done a little more research, I now have a new concern.  Firstly, I think I probably could cut the keyway on the lathe, certainly with the milling attachment, but I could also probably figure out a way to do it without.  With the attachment, it certainly wouldn't be painless, but I don't think it would be bamboo splinters either.  But I have that table-top mill, and although I'd still have to do it in sections, I don't think it would be too bad.
>
> But my new worry is what happens to the lead screw after I cut the slot.  I'm assuming this was hardened at least a bit (maybe case-hardened?), and probably stress relieved - at least until I remove an asymmetrical amount of metal from it.  I bet it's going to turn into a nice bow, and I can't see how I would easily get it back to more-or-less straight again.  It looks to me like a *very* slight deviation from straight might be tolerated, because the driven worm is suspended by bearings that might force the lead screw back into line, but it sounds pretty icky (and I'm not sure, either - I was just going from a drawing, since I haven't taken mine apart yet).
>
> Another related question: how long is the bed of a 36" lathe? The serial card for mine claims it's a 3' lathe, but the bed is exactly 42" long - which is it?  (Just in case I do find a lead screw on eBay...)
> ~~
>
> Mark Moulding
> South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear
>
>



--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"




Mark Moulding
 

Thanks for checking, George.  That makes for a bit of a mystery, though...  I believe this lathe to be completely stock, with all of the original parts it came with (even the "How To Run A Lathe" book), and the serial number card (I ponyed up the $25 to order it from Grizzly) shows it as a 9"x3'.  Considering my Dad's economic situation at the time, I would have expected hi to get the absolute cheapest model available, which this is in every other way (6-speed, model 'C').  So, why does the bed measure 42" (that's overall, end-to-end, from the left side of the headstock to the far right end)?  Are we measuring the same place?

(My lathe is in a storage unit about 3 miles away, so I can't go measure it at the moment.  Getting the length of the lead-screw would be a telling measurement  - I'll try to get over there later today.)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Thomas Harrold
 

My 9C bed measures about 36.5" (overall bed length)

 

Maybe your lathe is actually a 3.5' bed, and it's mis-marked?

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Moulding
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 1:27 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to

 

Thanks for checking, George.  That makes for a bit of a mystery, though...  I believe this lathe to be completely stock, with all of the original parts it came with (even the "How To Run A Lathe" book), and the serial number card (I ponyed up the $25 to order it from Grizzly) shows it as a 9"x3'.  Considering my Dad's economic situation at the time, I would have expected hi to get the absolute cheapest model available, which this is in every other way (6-speed, model 'C').  So, why does the bed measure 42" (that's overall, end-to-end, from the left side of the headstock to the far right end)?  Are we measuring the same place?

(My lathe is in a storage unit about 3 miles away, so I can't go measure it at the moment.  Getting the length of the lead-screw would be a telling measurement  - I'll try to get over there later today.)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Davis Johnson
 

Information on tags is subject to being wrong due to parts-swaps over the decade. For example, the catalog number on the quick-change gearbox chart on my 9A is wrong. It is quite likely that somebody swapped the gearbox some time in the last 80 years.

But the serial number is stamped on the bed, and you got the serial number card. It sounds like a clerical error back when it was built.

On 4/6/20 2:12 PM, Thomas Harrold via groups.io wrote:

My 9C bed measures about 36.5" (overall bed length)

 

Maybe your lathe is actually a 3.5' bed, and it's mis-marked?

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Moulding
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 1:27 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to

 

Thanks for checking, George.  That makes for a bit of a mystery, though...  I believe this lathe to be completely stock, with all of the original parts it came with (even the "How To Run A Lathe" book), and the serial number card (I ponyed up the $25 to order it from Grizzly) shows it as a 9"x3'.  Considering my Dad's economic situation at the time, I would have expected hi to get the absolute cheapest model available, which this is in every other way (6-speed, model 'C').  So, why does the bed measure 42" (that's overall, end-to-end, from the left side of the headstock to the far right end)?  Are we measuring the same place?

(My lathe is in a storage unit about 3 miles away, so I can't go measure it at the moment.  Getting the length of the lead-screw would be a telling measurement  - I'll try to get over there later today.)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Mark Moulding
 

I don't think this lathe has been tinkered with at all - it has all of the original wrenches, change gears, face plate, centers, and even the book.  And anyway, the one thing that couldn't possibly have been changed out is the bed itself, since as Davis points out that's where the serial number is.  I'm just quite surprised to find that it doesn't match the serial number data card (and also that my dad would have sprung for the additional $12 to get the longer bed - he didn't have much money at the time).

So I guess I'm in the market for a leadscrew for a 3-1/2' bed model 9B - I hope that doesn't turn out to be a hen's tooth.  Since it would be a learning experience, I'm not quite confident enough to potentially destroy my only lead screw by attempting to modify it, when I don't have another available as a backup.  I'll keep my eBay search active...
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


glenn brooks
 

You could easily have a new leadscrew and half nut made up for your lathe. Buying anything used will almost insure you are buying something run out beyond useful life.

Anyway, I’ve purchased a cross feed screw and nut from mIller Machine and Fabrication for my SB Fourteen and was very satisfied. precision, very well done work.

Robert Miller,


Glenn Brooks 




On Apr 8, 2020, at 10:47 AM, Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:

I don't think this lathe has been tinkered with at all - it has all of the original wrenches, change gears, face plate, centers, and even the book.  And anyway, the one thing that couldn't possibly have been changed out is the bed itself, since as Davis points out that's where the serial number is.  I'm just quite surprised to find that it doesn't match the serial number data card (and also that my dad would have sprung for the additional $12 to get the longer bed - he didn't have much money at the time).

So I guess I'm in the market for a leadscrew for a 3-1/2' bed model 9B - I hope that doesn't turn out to be a hen's tooth.  Since it would be a learning experience, I'm not quite confident enough to potentially destroy my only lead screw by attempting to modify it, when I don't have another available as a backup.  I'll keep my eBay search active...
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear