Topics

Looking to buy a handwheel for apron for Heavy 10

vinnito1@...
 

I recently purchased a 1941 10L that has a damaged handwheel on the apron. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell to me.

Jim_B
 

Try Ted


-8
Jim B,

On Jul 8, 2019, at 9:19 AM, vinnito1 via Groups.Io <vinnito1@...> wrote:

I recently purchased a 1941 10L that has a damaged handwheel on the apron. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell to me.

--
Jim B

Guenther Paul
 

Jim 
If you cant find a used hand wheel you can get one a McMaster Carr  you may have to do some machining on it

GP


On Monday, July 8, 2019, 10:09:18 AM EDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Try Ted


-8
Jim B,

On Jul 8, 2019, at 9:19 AM, vinnito1 via Groups.Io <vinnito1@...> wrote:

I recently purchased a 1941 10L that has a damaged handwheel on the apron. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell to me.

--
Jim B

Jim_B
 

Yes you can find similar hand wheels at Both McMasters and MSC. 
They will work but need to be fitted to the Heavy 10 shaft. 
Now a word of caution. SB did not take grate pains when installing taper pins. They are not necessarily on center or perpendicular to the shaft and no two are the same. 

I have been able to match new wheels to old shafts by holding the old shaft in a collet or chuck. Setting my shop made cross drilling attachment to match the angle and offset and then drilling through the new collar. 

If you want I can post a how-to


Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:

Jim 
If you cant find a used hand wheel you can get one a McMaster Carr  you may have to do some machining on it

GP


On Monday, July 8, 2019, 10:09:18 AM EDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Try Ted


-8
Jim B,

On Jul 8, 2019, at 9:19 AM, vinnito1 via Groups.Io <vinnito1@...> wrote:

I recently purchased a 1941 10L that has a damaged handwheel on the apron. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell to me.

--
Jim B


--
Jim B

Bill in OKC too
 

That would be a good thing for me, and I expect others will agree.

Bill in OKC



On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 11:21 AM -0500, "Jim_B" <jim@...> wrote:

Yes you can find similar hand wheels at Both McMasters and MSC. 
They will work but need to be fitted to the Heavy 10 shaft. 
Now a word of caution. SB did not take grate pains when installing taper pins. They are not necessarily on center or perpendicular to the shaft and no two are the same. 

I have been able to match new wheels to old shafts by holding the old shaft in a collet or chuck. Setting my shop made cross drilling attachment to match the angle and offset and then drilling through the new collar. 

If you want I can post a how-to


Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:

Jim 
If you cant find a used hand wheel you can get one a McMaster Carr  you may have to do some machining on it

GP


On Monday, July 8, 2019, 10:09:18 AM EDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Try Ted


-8
Jim B,

On Jul 8, 2019, at 9:19 AM, vinnito1 via Groups.Io <vinnito1@...> wrote:

I recently purchased a 1941 10L that has a damaged handwheel on the apron. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell to me.

--
Jim B


--
Jim B

Jim_B
 


Ok Bill
First I held the shaft in my lathe. 
(This is a Tailstock Handwheel on an 9” Workshop)
I fitted a drill to the taper pin hole and using a small bubble level I rotated the drill until the bubble was level. (Lock the spindle first,so the part won’t shift after leveling} Level by rotating shaft in chuck/collet.

I then chucked up a proper drill for the Taper Pin reamer in my cross drilling fixture. I matched the height, adjusting the QC tool holder height,  of the cross drilling fixture and drill point to point. 

I rotated the cross drilling fixture so the two drills were parallel.
This picture shows the two drills aligned in height and made parallel by rotating the compound. 

I then removed the drill from the shaft and aligned the cross drilling fixture to be centered in the hole on the draft. 

I mounted the hand wheel on the shaft, securing it wit a bit of Super Glue. Be sure to position it where you want it to be 


Now you can drill through,

You have aligned the drill be wit the hole in the shaft so that should just pass through drilling the closest and furtherest sides of the hand wheel only. 
You should then use a taper pin Reamer to set the taper up.

Questions?

Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:

That would be a good thing for me, and I expect others will agree.

Bill in OKC





--
Jim B

Jim_B
 

One other note. 
I am able to use a bubble level to set the initial position of the hole because my lathe is level not just detwisted. 
If your lathe is not level, note how far off plumb it is and set the initial position to match. 

-8
Jim B,

On Jul 8, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Ok Bill
First I held the shaft in my lathe. 
(This is a Tailstock Handwheel on an 9” Workshop)
I fitted a drill to the taper pin hole and using a small bubble level I rotated the drill until the bubble was level. (Lock the spindle first,so the part won’t shift after leveling} Level by rotating shaft in chuck/collet.

I then chucked up a proper drill for the Taper Pin reamer in my cross drilling fixture. I matched the height, adjusting the QC tool holder height,  of the cross drilling fixture and drill point to point. 

I rotated the cross drilling fixture so the two drills were parallel.
<PastedGraphic-1.tiff>
This picture shows the two drills aligned in height and made parallel by rotating the compound. 

I then removed the drill from the shaft and aligned the cross drilling fixture to be centered in the hole on the draft. 

I mounted the hand wheel on the shaft, securing it wit a bit of Super Glue. Be sure to position it where you want it to be 

<PastedGraphic-2.tiff>

Now you can drill through,

You have aligned the drill be wit the hole in the shaft so that should just pass through drilling the closest and furtherest sides of the hand wheel only. 
You should then use a taper pin Reamer to set the taper up.

Questions?

Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:

That would be a good thing for me, and I expect others will agree.

Bill in OKC





--
Jim B

--
Jim B

Guenther Paul
 

Jim you don't have to post pictures for me but it may be help full to others 

GP


On Monday, July 8, 2019, 12:21:24 PM EDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Yes you can find similar hand wheels at Both McMasters and MSC. 
They will work but need to be fitted to the Heavy 10 shaft. 
Now a word of caution. SB did not take grate pains when installing taper pins. They are not necessarily on center or perpendicular to the shaft and no two are the same. 

I have been able to match new wheels to old shafts by holding the old shaft in a collet or chuck. Setting my shop made cross drilling attachment to match the angle and offset and then drilling through the new collar. 

If you want I can post a how-to


Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:

Jim 
If you cant find a used hand wheel you can get one a McMaster Carr  you may have to do some machining on it

GP


On Monday, July 8, 2019, 10:09:18 AM EDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Try Ted


-8
Jim B,

On Jul 8, 2019, at 9:19 AM, vinnito1 via Groups.Io <vinnito1@...> wrote:

I recently purchased a 1941 10L that has a damaged handwheel on the apron. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell to me.

--
Jim B


--
Jim B

John Losch
 

To all:

I may be walking into it here, but I have to ask:  If a vertical miller is available, couldn’t the hand wheel shaft be loosely fitted into a vise with a vee block, a drill suitable to the shaft hole, held in the headstock, and the shaft and drill manipulated until there is a “free feel" to the drill?  Perhaps a tapered reamer could be “jiggled” to assure alignments afterward.  This might be as sensitive as trying to fit a level in Jim’s procedure.  I would proceed as Jim has suggested, using super glue, spotting center, and drilling very cautiously.  Not as easily, I suspect the same thing could be done with an horizontal miller.  (Lucky me:  I have both.) 

I am probably missing some important point, so have at it.  I am not sensitive to being corrected.

Jcl 




On Jul 8, 2019, at 7:07 PM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:

Jim you don't have to post pictures for me but it may be help full to others 

GP


On Monday, July 8, 2019, 12:21:24 PM EDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Yes you can find similar hand wheels at Both McMasters and MSC. 
They will work but need to be fitted to the Heavy 10 shaft. 
Now a word of caution. SB did not take grate pains when installing taper pins. They are not necessarily on center or perpendicular to the shaft and no two are the same. 

I have been able to match new wheels to old shafts by holding the old shaft in a collet or chuck. Setting my shop made cross drilling attachment to match the angle and offset and then drilling through the new collar. 

If you want I can post a how-to


Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:

Jim 
If you cant find a used hand wheel you can get one a McMaster Carr  you may have to do some machining on it

GP


On Monday, July 8, 2019, 10:09:18 AM EDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Try Ted


-8
Jim B,

On Jul 8, 2019, at 9:19 AM, vinnito1 via Groups.Io <vinnito1@...> wrote:

I recently purchased a 1941 10L that has a damaged handwheel on the apron. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell to me.

--
Jim B


--
Jim B

Jim_B
 

Yes John a mil could be substituted for the lathe, but you are still stuck finding the correct and\gle and offset in order to drill a matching hole in the hand wheel collar so the taper pin fits both the shaft and the collar without drilling another hole in the shaft. 
Of course drilling a second hole is always an option. 

Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 7:34 PM, John Losch <johnlosch32@...> wrote:

To all:

I may be walking into it here, but I have to ask:  If a vertical miller is available, couldn’t the hand wheel shaft be loosely fitted into a vise with a vee block, a drill suitable to the shaft hole, held in the headstock, and the shaft and drill manipulated until there is a “free feel" to the drill?  Perhaps a tapered reamer could be “jiggled” to assure alignments afterward.  This might be as sensitive as trying to fit a level in Jim’s procedure.  I would proceed as Jim has suggested, using super glue, spotting center, and drilling very cautiously.  Not as easily, I suspect the same thing could be done with an horizontal miller.  (Lucky me:  I have both.) 

I am probably missing some important point, so have at it.  I am not sensitive to being corrected.

Jcl 






--
Jim B

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

I have had exactly the same problem on my steam loco renovation.  One or two joints in the valve gear are held together by a collar and tapered pin rather than a washer and plain spit pin.  2 collars went missing over the 19 years the job has been ongoing, but the chassis is now finished awaiting the boiler, promised back from the contractor at the end of September.

This is what I did after turning a new collar:

1.  Place tapererd pin in hole in spindle and, by eye, scribe a line across the end of the spindle as close to aligning with it as you can.

2. Measure distance of hole centre from shoulder.

3.  Drill a hole a the same size as the small end of the tapered hole in the spindle into the collar at the right distance from the face that abuts the shoulder.

4.  Fit the collar to the spindle, then put your small drill in the hole as far as it will go, and wiggle the collar around till it is central, then continue the scribed line across the collar.

5.  Centre pop the second side of the collar and drill slightly larger than the second side, but not so big the taper pin enters to full depth.

6.  Get busy with a round needle file till the taper pin enters decently and finally remove the absolute minimum metal with the taper reamer.  You can make your own taper reamer from silver steel (USA "drill rod"?) by turning on the taper, flatting to exacly half the diameter and hardening.

Caution:  Metric standard taper is the nice round 1 in 50, Imperial is the nice round 1/4" per foot which is 1 in 48.  And yes, it does matter if torque transmission or vibration are present.

Cheers,

Eddie

On Tuesday, 9 July 2019, 00:55:13 BST, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Yes John a mil could be substituted for the lathe, but you are still stuck finding the correct and\gle and offset in order to drill a matching hole in the hand wheel collar so the taper pin fits both the shaft and the collar without drilling another hole in the shaft. 
Of course drilling a second hole is always an option. 

Sent from my MacBook
Jim B.




On Jul 8, 2019, at 7:34 PM, John Losch <johnlosch32@...> wrote:

To all:

I may be walking into it here, but I have to ask:  If a vertical miller is available, couldn’t the hand wheel shaft be loosely fitted into a vise with a vee block, a drill suitable to the shaft hole, held in the headstock, and the shaft and drill manipulated until there is a “free feel" to the drill?  Perhaps a tapered reamer could be “jiggled” to assure alignments afterward.  This might be as sensitive as trying to fit a level in Jim’s procedure.  I would proceed as Jim has suggested, using super glue, spotting center, and drilling very cautiously.  Not as easily, I suspect the same thing could be done with an horizontal miller.  (Lucky me:  I have both.) 

I am probably missing some important point, so have at it.  I am not sensitive to being corrected.

Jcl 






--
Jim B