Newbie (New Member, New to me South Bend)


Don Hubbard
 

Hi All,


I've been in the process of building a workshop for a while now... and while the workshop project has been slowly dragging along, I have collected some equipment. I found a refurbished Benchmaster mill and a South Bend lathe. My South Bend lathe is a 9", 3.5', catalog no. 480ZN and serial no. 70504, which I've calculated to be, roughly, 1935 +/-


It looks very much like the "480Z" lathe on page 11 of this 1933 catalog: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3753.pdf 

But, I haven't yet found a catalog with a 480ZN lathe. I have no idea what the N indicates. However, this pic has made me think that I should paint it black as opposed to a gray-green. 


I'm in Central Texas, i.e. a desert for used vintage lathes and the machine I purchased looks reasonably good and mostly unabused, but was a little looser than I had hoped... oh well, I'll have an excuse to go through it! Reconditioning this lathe will be a learning experience for me. I haven't used a lathe in quite a long time either...  


I'll also have to build a bench for it. Welded steel frame. But, I have no idea what I'll do for the top. I had been thinking that I'd use butcher block, but then I've read that more mass might be better... maybe ~1" steel plate? Suggestions?


The workshop will be a hobby space and the lathe will be used to make random bits, mostly to support my motorcycle and car habit. I still have a bit more work to do on the shop space, but I should be able to dive into the South Bend sometime in the next few months.


If anyone has a 480ZN, or has rebuilt a 480ZN, I would really appreciate a link to it, if possible!


Thanks in advance! 

Don

 

 


Flash Gordon
 

Hi Don,

If you are going to make a steel leg table then you would want to add more mass o the top. Many machine shops have a large stone that is ground and used for measuring and refererence. And they are very expensive. With that in mind way not pour a concrete table top. Just build a box on top of the legs and fill it with ready mix concrete. It will not be perfectly flat but gravity will make it pretty close to level.






 At 11:05 PM 3/5/2017, you wrote:


Hi All,


I've been in the process of building a workshop for a while now... and while the workshop project has been slowly dragging along, I have collected so ut me equipment. I found a refurbished Benchmaster mill and a South Bend lathe. My South Bend lathe is a 9", 3.5', catalog no. 480ZN and serial no. 70504, which I've calculated to be, roughly, 1935 +/-.


It looks very much like the "480Z" lathe on page 11 of this 1933 catalog: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3753.pdf

But, I haven't yet found a catalog with a 480ZN lathe. I have no idea what the N indicates. However, this pic has made me think that I should paint it black as opposed to a gray-green.


I'm in Central Texas, i.e. a desert for used vintage lathes and the machine I purchased looks reasonably good and mostly unabused, but was a little looser than I had hoped... oh well, I'll have an excuse to go through it! Reconditioning this lathe will be a learning experience for me. I haven't used a lathe in quite a long time either... 


I'll also have to build a bench for it. Welded steel frame. But, I have no idea what I'll do for the top. I had been thinking that I'd use butcher block, but then I've read that more mass might be better... maybe ~1" steel plate? Suggestions?


The workshop will be a hobby space and the lathe will be used to make random bits, mostly to support my motorcycle and car habit. I still have a bit more work to do on the shop space, but I should be able to dive into the South Bend sometime in the next few months.


If anyone has a 480ZN, or has rebuilt a 480ZN, I would really appreciate a link to it, if possible!


Thanks in advance!

Don

 

 



m. allan noah
 

Don- during that period, the 'N' indicated that the lathe shipped with an adjustable horizontal motor drive, instead of an overhead lineshaft. See this price list:

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1934_price_list_No6/album/slides/scan0001.html

allan

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 11:05 PM, don.hubbard@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

Hi All,


I've been in the process of building a workshop for a while now... and while the workshop project has been slowly dragging along, I have collected some equipment. I found a refurbished Benchmaster mill and a South Bend lathe. My South Bend lathe is a 9", 3.5', catalog no. 480ZN and serial no. 70504, which I've calculated to be, roughly, 1935 +/-


It looks very much like the "480Z" lathe on page 11 of this 1933 catalog: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3753.pdf 

But, I haven't yet found a catalog with a 480ZN lathe. I have no idea what the N indicates. However, this pic has made me think that I should paint it black as opposed to a gray-green. 


I'm in Central Texas, i.e. a desert for used vintage lathes and the machine I purchased looks reasonably good and mostly unabused, but was a little looser than I had hoped... oh well, I'll have an excuse to go through it! Reconditioning this lathe will be a learning experience for me. I haven't used a lathe in quite a long time either...  


I'll also have to build a bench for it. Welded steel frame. But, I have no idea what I'll do for the top. I had been thinking that I'd use butcher block, but then I've read that more mass might be better... maybe ~1" steel plate? Suggestions?


The workshop will be a hobby space and the lathe will be used to make random bits, mostly to support my motorcycle and car habit. I still have a bit more work to do on the shop space, but I should be able to dive into the South Bend sometime in the next few months.


If anyone has a 480ZN, or has rebuilt a 480ZN, I would really appreciate a link to it, if possible!


Thanks in advance! 

Don

 

 




--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"


Don Hubbard
 

Thanks Allan!


---In SOUTHBENDLATHE@..., <kitno455@...> wrote :

Don- during that period, the 'N' indicated that the lathe shipped with an adjustable horizontal motor drive, instead of an overhead lineshaft. See this price list:

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1934_price_list_No6/album/slides/scan0001.html

allan

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 11:05 PM, don.hubbard@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

Hi All,


I've been in the process of building a workshop for a while now... and while the workshop project has been slowly dragging along, I have collected some equipment. I found a refurbished Benchmaster mill and a South Bend lathe. My South Bend lathe is a 9", 3.5', catalog no. 480ZN and serial no. 70504, which I've calculated to be, roughly, 1935 +/-


It looks very much like the "480Z" lathe on page 11 of this 1933 catalog: http:// vintagemachinery.org/pubs/ 1617/3753.pdf 

But, I haven't yet found a catalog with a 480ZN lathe. I have no idea what the N indicates. However, this pic has made me think that I should paint it black as opposed to a gray-green. 


I'm in Central Texas, i.e. a desert for used vintage lathes and the machine I purchased looks reasonably good and mostly unabused, but was a little looser than I had hoped... oh well, I'll have an excuse to go through it! Reconditioning this lathe will be a learning experience for me. I haven't used a lathe in quite a long time either...  


I'll also have to build a bench for it. Welded steel frame. But, I have no idea what I'll do for the top. I had been thinking that I'd use butcher block, but then I've read that more mass might be better... maybe ~1" steel plate? Suggestions?


The workshop will be a hobby space and the lathe will be used to make random bits, mostly to support my motorcycle and car habit. I still have a bit more work to do on the shop space, but I should be able to dive into the South Bend sometime in the next few months.


If anyone has a 480ZN, or has rebuilt a 480ZN, I would really appreciate a link to it, if possible!


Thanks in advance! 

Don

 

 




--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"


Don Hubbard
 

Thanks Ed! 

I have read that adding a concrete base to an existing table was a recommended solution for these smaller lathes such that they could more easily build high tolerance parts for the war effort. A 3" thick concrete slab and a 1" steel plate weigh about the same. I don't know which I worry about more... my ability to pour a flat slab on concrete or prying my wallet open enough to pay for a 1" thick slab of CRS!  :)

If the table top is not nice and flat, what is the procedure for leveling, or mounting the lathe so that bed twist is not an issue?

Thanks for the suggestion!
Don 
 


---In SOUTHBENDLATHE@..., <eschwerkolt@...> wrote :

Hi Don,

If you are going to make a steel leg table then you would want to add more mass o the top. Many machine shops have a large stone that is ground and used for measuring and refererence. And they are very expensive. With that in mind way not pour a concrete table top. Just build a box on top of the legs and fill it with ready mix concrete. It will not be perfectly flat but gravity will make it pretty close to level.






 At 11:05 PM 3/5/2017, you wrote:


Hi All,


I've been in the process of building a workshop for a while now... and while the workshop project has been slowly dragging along, I have collected so ut me equipment. I found a refurbished Benchmaster mill and a South Bend lathe. My South Bend lathe is a 9", 3.5', catalog no. 480ZN and serial no. 70504, which I've calculated to be, roughly, 1935 +/-.


It looks very much like the "480Z" lathe on page 11 of this 1933 catalog: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3753.pdf

But, I haven't yet found a catalog with a 480ZN lathe. I have no idea what the N indicates. However, this pic has made me think that I should paint it black as opposed to a gray-green.


I'm in Central Texas, i.e. a desert for used vintage lathes and the machine I purchased looks reasonably good and mostly unabused, but was a little looser than I had hoped... oh well, I'll have an excuse to go through it! Reconditioning this lathe will be a learning experience for me. I haven't used a lathe in quite a long time either... 


I'll also have to build a bench for it. Welded steel frame. But, I have no idea what I'll do for the top. I had been thinking that I'd use butcher block, but then I've read that more mass might be better... maybe ~1" steel plate? Suggestions?


The workshop will be a hobby space and the lathe will be used to make random bits, mostly to support my motorcycle and car habit. I still have a bit more work to do on the shop space, but I should be able to dive into the South Bend sometime in the next few months.


If anyone has a 480ZN, or has rebuilt a 480ZN, I would really appreciate a link to it, if possible!


Thanks in advance!

Don

 

 



eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

There are 3 issues here, which should not be confused with each other, namely mass, stiffness and damping.

If something rings when you hit it, it doesn't contain much damping.  If it just goes thud or squelch, it has lots.  Concrete damps much better than steel, as, incidentally, does cast iron.  All 3 together can help if your machining problem is vibration.

If your machining problem is persuading your machine to maintain alignment despite a built in natural tendency to do otherwise, then the only necessary parameter in its mounting is stiffness, so it can be forced into shape rather than it forcing its flimsy foundation into its preferred shape.  Beware wood, as while it is thermally stable, its shape changes with humidity, to quite a significant extent, so it and high precision are mutually exclusive.  To be honest, for a hobby lathe, a rectangular framework of substantial angle iron, having diagonals in both directions in every plane, attached close to the holding down points for the machine, ought to be stiff enough to provide the required result.  I would recomend bolting rather than welding, as welded articles change shape over years due to their working stresses stress relieving the welds (unless you have a big enough and hot enough oven in which it can be stress relieved!).

Granite (the type of rock does matter) is used for high precision surface plates as it is more stable than the common alternative, cast iron.  It can also be used for the guide ways of the sorts of machine tools that are part of a building.

Eddie



From: "don.hubbard@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Monday, 6 March 2017, 14:39
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Newbie (New Member, New to me South Bend)

 
Thanks Ed! 

I have read that adding a concrete base to an existing table was a recommended solution for these smaller lathes such that they could more easily build high tolerance parts for the war effort. A 3" thick concrete slab and a 1" steel plate weigh about the same. I don't know which I worry about more... my ability to pour a flat slab on concrete or prying my wallet open enough to pay for a 1" thick slab of CRS!  :)

If the table top is not nice and flat, what is the procedure for leveling, or mounting the lathe so that bed twist is not an issue?

Thanks for the suggestion!
Don 
 


---In SOUTHBENDLATHE@..., wrote :

Hi Don,

If you are going to make a steel leg table then you would want to add more mass o the top. Many machine shops have a large stone that is ground and used for measuring and refererence. And they are very expensive. With that in mind way not pour a concrete table top. Just build a box on top of the legs and fill it with ready mix concrete. It will not be perfectly flat but gravity will make it pretty close to level.






 At 11:05 PM 3/5/2017, you wrote:


Hi All,


I've been in the process of building a workshop for a while now... and while the workshop project has been slowly dragging along, I have collected so ut me equipment. I found a refurbished Benchmaster mill and a South Bend lathe. My South Bend lathe is a 9", 3.5', catalog no. 480ZN and serial no. 70504, which I've calculated to be, roughly, 1935 +/-.


It looks very much like the "480Z" lathe on page 11 of this 1933 catalog: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3753.pdf

But, I haven't yet found a catalog with a 480ZN lathe. I have no idea what the N indicates. However, this pic has made me think that I should paint it black as opposed to a gray-green.


I'm in Central Texas, i.e. a desert for used vintage lathes and the machine I purchased looks reasonably good and mostly unabused, but was a little looser than I had hoped... oh well, I'll have an excuse to go through it! Reconditioning this lathe will be a learning experience for me. I haven't used a lathe in quite a long time either... 


I'll also have to build a bench for it. Welded steel frame. But, I have no idea what I'll do for the top. I had been thinking that I'd use butcher block, but then I've read that more mass might be better... maybe ~1" steel plate? Suggestions?


The workshop will be a hobby space and the lathe will be used to make random bits, mostly to support my motorcycle and car habit. I still have a bit more work to do on the shop space, but I should be able to dive into the South Bend sometime in the next few months.


If anyone has a 480ZN, or has rebuilt a 480ZN, I would really appreciate a link to it, if possible!


Thanks in advance!

Don

 

 





Don Hubbard
 

Thanks Eddie.

Flat, rigid and vibration damping. More things to consider when I get around to building the bench.

Thanks again,
Don


Nick Jonkman
 

Hi guys
Attached is a photo of the bench I built for my 9A. It is very rigid and has lots of weight too. Legs are 2" square tubing 3/16 wall, plates are 1/4" and 3/16" for the webs. The shelf is 6 or 8" channel iron so all in all very rigid. The tool box loaded probably weighs another 150 or more pounds. Top frame around the tool box is heavy 2 1/2" angle iron. I get no flex and was able level and maintain that once set up. There is only one leg on the right end and four on the left side. I have the four legs leveled and then brought the single leg up to match the height. Works great.
Nick


Flash Gordon
 

Don,

Method 2. I have not tried this but I have heard good things about it. See attached:

At 09:39 AM 3/6/2017, you wrote:



If the table top is not nice and flat, what is the procedure for leveling, or mounting the lathe so that bed twist is not an issue?

Thanks for the suggestion!
Don


Don Hubbard
 

Interesting method. 

Ed, Thanks for sharing!

- Don


Don Hubbard
 

Nice bench! It looks very sturdy. The one leg under the "tail" seems somewhat unique. The vertical space for the chip tray seems generous.

Thanks for sharing, 
Don


Gregg Eshelman
 

Bolt the headstock end down snug then check to see which side of the tailstock end foot is not touching the benchtop. Put shims under that side. Making sure the bed isn't twisted is easiest if it's level - but with a precision level you can adjust the shims to get the same amount of front to back tilt at both ends.

An option some years on the 9" Workshop (and others with the bench mount option?) was an adjustable tailstock end foot. The procedure with that one was loosen the adjuster screws, bolt both feet down snug then use a level and the adjuster screws to ensure there's no twist in the bed.


From: "don.hubbard@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Newbie (New Member, New to me South Bend)


Thanks Ed! 

I have read that adding a concrete base to an existing table was a recommended solution for these smaller lathes such that they could more easily build high tolerance parts for the war effort. A 3" thick concrete slab and a 1" steel plate weigh about the same. I don't know which I worry about more... my ability to pour a flat slab on concrete or prying my wallet open enough to pay for a 1" thick slab of CRS!  :)

If the table top is not nice and flat, what is the procedure for leveling, or mounting the lathe so that bed twist is not an issue?

Thanks for the suggestion!
Don