South Bend FOURTEEN


Alex Sanchez <alex@...>
 

I just bought a lathe and I need advice for lifting, loading and securing during transportation, is going to be transporter on a trailer that my son uses to transport cars.


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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the recipient(s). If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and might not represent those of the company. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.


Gregg Eshelman
 

On 12/16/2015 9:27 PM, Alex Sanchez alex@condumex.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

I just bought a lathe and I need advice for lifting, loading and
securing during transportation, is going to be transporter on a trailer
that my son uses to transport cars.
If there's a forklift available, some 4" wide cargo straps (like used to hold heavy loads onto semi-trailers, not Home Depot ones) looped around the bed webs should handle it, or use some web straps made for the purpose. They have loops made to slide over forklift forks.

Another way to lift a lathe is with the straps around the outside of the bed, but for that method you must use wood blocking between the straps and front side of the bed so the straps do not touch the lead screw. It'll get bent without the blocking.

Lathes over 14" swing should be lifted with wider straps or special slings. Most machine tool manuals for ones one or two people can't pick up usually have diagrams showing proper ways to lift them with straps, slings or forks.

If the bottom of the bed is below anything like a feed rod, leadscrew etc, a lathe can be lifted with a forklift with the forks under the bed.

Any time you use a forklift to move machinery, it's important to secure the machine and/or straps so they can't slide off the forks. It's amazing how easily and swiftly 2,000+ pounds of machine tool can slide off those steel forks. Put picking eyes or large bolts through the holes in the fork ends to make certain straps can't slide off.

You'll want to lighten the lathe as much as possible by removing anything normally removable like the tailstock. Run the carriage all the way to the tailstock end and lock it there using the carriage clamp bolt. That's usually a square head bolt sticking up on the right/front/top side of the saddle.

Once you get it set down on a smooth concrete floor, it should be possible to slide it quite easily, if you have enough strong guys to get it moving. Do not ever try to push the whole lathe sideways! Do one end at a time. Lathes heavier than a 14" South Bend won't be pushable, unless you have a team of Olympic class weightlifters.

If at any time it starts to tip over, get away and let it go. Arms and legs are much harder and more expensive to repair than cast iron.


carbure2003
 


ecgausch
 

I moved a 16" using the biggest UHaul trailer. Each end of the lathe was jacked up and a homemade

dolly placed underneath. The dollies were constructed from heavy duty casters from tractor supply,

2"x6" lumber, and bolted together. The lathe was ratchet strapped to the dollies and winched onto the trailer with two come-a-longs.

The lathe was placed long ways on the trailer such that the headstock was closest to the truck end of the trailer and the tailstock towards the rear of the trailer. It was pulled forward against a block of 4"x4"s, about 30" long, to prevent the lathe from load shifting forward. It was ratchet strapped to the trailer's rails, front,

rear, and both sides.

The come-a-longs were used to winch it off the trailer. The move completed by myself, without issue.

Eric       


Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

In the files section (Again!) is the write up “How to disassemble a South Bend Lathe for moving”.

It’s fairly through.

 

Also, these lathes are VERY top heavy. Not a month passes that we do not hear of one being tipped over and damaged.

You cannot take too many cautionary steps to prevent this.

 

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 11:28 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] South Bend FOURTEEN

 

 

I just bought a lathe and I need advice for lifting, loading and securing during transportation, is going to be transporter on a trailer that my son uses to transport cars.

 


Disclaimer

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the recipient(s). If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and might not represent those of the company. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.




Mark R. Jonkman
 

Hi Alex

I just bought the same lathe and brought it home 2 weeks ago on a utility trailer. The lathe will weight approximately 1750 lbs.

Unfortunately the design of the bed is a bit different then the design of the more common south bends. The ribs create an opening that has an angle the exits the back of the bed vs straight drop down through the bed. This means that when you try to lift the lathe through a rib it will try to roll over on its side very quickly. What we did was run a loop down through the channel and shoved a two by four through the loop vs trying to wrap around and come back up through a second hole. You can only do this to one end, the other end absolutely must be picked up either slung around the bed or not recommended (but I had to do this) install a faceplate or chuck and then carefully sling around the D1-4 spindle end between the chuck and the head stock keeping very close to the headstock. This prevented tipping and actually reasonably balanced the load.

As others have already mentioned if you loop around under the bed you have to put blocking in place to prevent pinching the lead screw.


During the loading we had access to a forklift so that made things easier. What I did was install some 4x4's perpendicular to the length of the bed. These 4x4's were about 36-40" long. This widened out the base of the lathe tremendously. I ran two heavy duty tie down straps over the bed, one at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. Then drove an hour or so through Richmond VA down 64 towards Charlottesville and that puppy did not move one iota. The outriggers really stabilized things, the straps where mostly for show. I think I looped one or both through the bed top side on the front and exiting out on the angle at the back and tied down to the floor of the trailer. This gave good down pressure and going through the bed this way made sure that it couldn't move forward or back.

I did not remove the gear box on mine nor the saddle or the taper attachment. I did remove the faceplate I had temporarily installed and anything on the compound as well as the tail stock. As someone mentioned the more you take off the lighter it will be and the less likely that in the event of a catastrophic tip over you won't smash all the handles. Without standing at the lathe, I'm not sure you can take off the gear box, I think the casting or weldments for the headstock actually includes the gear box on this thing. I honestly don't recall seeing a line of separation but I'm at work and the lathe is at home and its still new to me so I could be wrong.

Getting it on the trailer was easy, getting it off was a slightly different story.

First in addition to the outriggers I had mounted castors on the 4x4's (harbor freight ones that I had handy). To prevent them from taking any weight during travel I had added a little piece 6" of additional 4x4 plus a 3/4" thick piece of oak under the 4x4's. This kept the castors just clear of the ground during transportation. My thought was I could roll this puppy off the trailer when I got home by just jacking up the lathe a hair with a floor jack, unscrewing the lag bolts holding these little end pieces kick them out and set the lathe down on the castors. The castors being 5" from the each end of the 4x4 would still give it plenty of outrigger support and I could use a come along to control speed coming off ramp. Well you rocket scientists can probably guess what I didn't guess. The rubber castors shredded into little chunks in the first 18" of movement. The lag screws I had holding the 4x4 outriggers then took the brunt of the force and started to pull out. So basically we basically just removed the outriggers at that point.

It was loaded on the trailer headstock toward front, tailstock toward end. The trailer had a built in ramp (wire mesh thing). We hooked the engine hoist (cherry picker) to the edge of the ramp and basically hooked the strap to the last hole in the bed of the lathe and started lifting. I pushed against the headstock and end and the lathe slid reasonably well until the tailstock end was dangling directly below the end of the hoist. Then we set the tailstock end on the ground and moved the cherry picker over to pick up the headstock end carefully by spindle nose. Just enough to lift it off the trailer and then drove the trailer out from under it. We set it down on the forward legs of the cherry picker and while still maintaining vertical pressure (no lift) on the lathe we used that as a dolly to push it into the garage and into approximate place. Then with two straps one on the spindle and one looped through the bed we carefully lifted it an inch or so off the legs of the cherry picker and pushed the base out to clear the end of the lathe and with 3 people pushing the lathe toward vertical and one carefully letting down the hydraulic pressure we set the lathe upright on the floor in front of the cherry picker.

There was a ton of improvising after plan A failed. I had two boys helping me (18 and 20 yrs old) on the movement into the garage. Getting it off the trailer was just my wife and one son. We took it slow and careful, took almost an hour to get it off the trailer. The scariest part was pushing it off the cherry picker legs. That took a lot of faith to swing it out and make sure the hydraulics didn't drop too fast.

--

Things I'd do different:

1) Lag bolts to hold the 4x4s on should have been 1/2" or bigger and at least 5" long. I had 1/2" by 2.5" thinking that was long enough. I mounted them using the holes for the leveling feet (remove the leveling feet - 1-1/16" wrench to turn them out) then big washer to keep from pulling through.
2) Caster idea okay, but would need to be steel castors not rubber.
3) Idea to roll down ramp was a farce, instead I would do the lift via the tailstock to pull it off the trailer and set it on the ground (still need one person or more by headstock to push it) would be really nice to have a steel plate under the lathe on not wood and or plywood as I had (wheels sink in).
4) I'd lift the headstock end and drive out the trailer again but if it was on castors I'd make sure that I spin the hoist to set it down on the ground and not the arms of the hoist.

If I had a decent ramp then my original idea of come alongs to control the offloading by rolling it down the ramp might have worked just fine.

I'd also make sure I had access to a toe jack. Be willing to lift the end of the lathe increments using blocking every inch or so of height under back and front of each end as its lifted by the jack. Keep pipe handy to roll it on, make sure it was decent diameter and at least 6" or more wider then the lathe itself. There are enough cross pieces of steel channel under each end - at least 2, that you can use pipe to carefully roll one end at a time to move it back toward a wall if needed after getting it roughly in place.

With a toe jack (my latest investment) and some 1.5" diameter pipe I can now move my lathe small increments by myself. For some reason my sons have been avoiding me for the last 3 weeks.

Keep in mind the leveling feet are two parts, a small pad that fits under them and then the leveler part. They are also supposed to have an anti vibration rubber piece under them as well.

you can unscrew them from the bottom but if you need to lag screw the lathe to outriggers then you have to remove the end plate at the bottom of the headstock and the big plate at the front of the lathe to access the back ones.

I would strongly advise you to remove that front plate and inspect the insulation. One mine there was sound insulation inside the base to decrease the noise from the Reeve's drive. That insulation had disintegrated and the rubber backing come loose and was hanging over the DC drive that operates the Reeve's drive. Some of the plastic cover had already been sucked into the gears during a test run. Those are fiber and/or plastic gears. You do not want the heavy rubber backing to get sucked into those gears or you can kiss them goodbye. In my case there was a very thin plastic sheet overtop of the insulation and it, not the 1/8" rubber backing that got sucked into the gears and it did no harm. Still had to pick it out. I removed all insulation and as much of the rubber backing as I could without removing the box that holds the electrical.

The panels are all held on with button head cap screws - so a battery operated drill driver is a good thing to have handy with a set of allen head bits. I think the screws are 5/32" heads which I didn't have but a 4mm matched almost perfectly so I used that on my Bosch driver to get through them quickly.

Wiring up took me a bit of time. There are several posts on practical machinist that suggested that since some of the circuits are 3phase and some single phase that it was not a good idea to use a rotary phase converter or a VFD to power the machine. The single phase gets pulled of IL1 and returns on IL3 input lines. Taking that into account I did the following:

Single phase to a 220v electric switch mounted on wall next to VFD. Took two single phase lines out of the switch using pigtails to connect to the switch. One line up to the VFD and the 3 phase line back into the lathe. The other single phase line into the lathe. The main junction box on my lathe was behind the big front cover and it had a terminal bar in it. It had labels for IL1-IL3 that connected the power in cord to the 3 wires that run up to the control panel on top of the headstock. I simply disconnected the input lines from those terminals, as well as the output lines that went to the control box. I left in place the other wires running into IL3 terminal that are the return lines for completing the circuits of the single phase stuff. I then took the two single phase power lines (black an white wires) connect them to terminals IL1 and IL3 (nothing should be on IL2). I ran a new wire up to the control box and connected it to IL1. I use 3 empty terminals in the terminal bar (which were actually labelled T1-T3 and connected the former IL1-IL3 lines that go to the control box as well as the 3 input from the 3 phase there.

When you open the control panel on the top, mine has the drum switch. The terminals were all neatly marked and the wires were also marked IL1-IL3 and 2L1, T1-T3 (4 wires out). 2L1 is the power back to panel underneath and T1-T3 are the lines to the motor. I simply disconnected IL1-IL3 and connected them directly to T1-T3. I then connected the new wire from the panel to IL1.

In this arrangement, the 3 phase power now comes into the panel at the bottom of the lathe and directly goes up to the control panel at the top of the headstock, bypass the switch and goes straight to the motor. Therefore the VFD is happy 3 power lines are in effect connected straight to the motor with no switches in between. The single phase circuit is happy because it is still switched at the drum switch using the terminals it always used.

However we need a way of controlling the VFD. On my drum switch there were two rows of terminals on either side. Leaving IL1 and 2L1 being the single phase circuit were the rear most set of terminals. I had to remove some crossover wires (bridges or whatever you want to call them), I think from the top row of terminals on the left side. Basically what I was trying to do was isolate the remaining terminals from the IL1/2L1 circuit and to create a condition where the DCM wire from the VFD could mount to the central terminal on the lower row of the left side and the FWD and REV could be mounted on the terminals on the right side of the switch. I believe there is a bridge on the bottom two on the left. Anyhow what you are shooting for is that when turned to the REVERSE the switch connects the DCM line to the REV line on the other side of the switch and when in FORWARD it connects DCM to FWD line and that IL1 and 2L1 are completely isolated. I then drilled a hole in the back of the top control panel and ran the VFD control lines back to the DCM, REV and FWD terminals on the VFD mounted on the wall behind the lathe.

This arrangement is critical - the VFD and the single phase circuits must be controlled by a single interrupter. The motor circuit must be wired directly to the VFD (I just tried to reuse the existing wiring mechanism with a few changes as listed above). Both the VFD and the single phase circuits must be connected to a single on off switch on the lathe if at all possible. This prevents one from attempting to alter the speed of the Reeves drive while the machine is not running.

The entire reason for isolating the single phase Reeves/Tach circuits from the VFD circuits was that several posts claimed that when wired into a VFD or Rotary phase converter the tach would not read correctly and or the Reeve's drive might not function properly. Having read that I chose to run the separate circuits that I did and it works perfectly for me. Also the separation of circuits is a requirement to prevent a switch for the Reeve's drive controls from being between the VFD and the Reeve's drive motor.

I finished wiring it last weekend and have used the lathe every day since. The nice part, with the 220v disconnect switch I can turn on/off the VFD at the start of each day with a single flip of the switch from a conveniently placed location. I tend to hide my VFD into a box to prevent or reduce dust getting into it (that is not the case currently for this lathe as I didn't have a box).

For oil:

I emailed Mobil for current oils to match the ones in the manual.

Headstock, Transmission and Gearbox they said to use Mobil DTE Light (still on the market - enco has a 5 gallon pail only which I bought). Mobil suggested using the same in the Apron.

Use the regular South Bend Type C oil (Mobil DTE Heavy Medium) for the rest basically.

I squirt way oil on the ways but I think they suggest just use Type C for the tailstock oilers and all the oilers on top of the saddle and the lead screw, cross slide screw and compound screws.

----

I gave the transmission an oil change last night. It drove me absolutely nuts so a couple of things to keep in mind:

On my lathe the drain plug for the transmission (lower end panel) is immediately above the motor. I had to cut a milk jug and form a funny flat drain pan to direct the oil into the container. It still made a mess. I think the plug is 1/4" pipe. I would strongly recommend buying a 2 or 3" long piece of pipe and a coupler that would accept the drain plug and make an extension out to where you can put a catch basin.

Filling the transmission with oil was actually worse then emptying it. Mine had an elbow coming out with a short vertical exhaust/air breather valve on it. I couldn't get a grip on the elbow to unscrew it but could unscrew the exhaust valve thing. The location was too high up to put a funnel, the elbow blocked the flow of the oil into the top of the transmission. Finally I went and found a thin drinking straw with those corrugated elbows on it. I carefully threaded that down into the elbow and using a small cheap trigger pump oil can I proceeded to fill the transmission one squirt at a time. There isn't much oil in the transmission - maybe a quart of oil. But it took me an hour and a half to do the oil change and created a huge mess. I don't have any suggestion there except to probably remove the actual elbow if you can get at it, replace it with a T with a fill plug on the end opposite of where it screws into the gear box and the little exhaust breather mechanism going out the top. Then you can take the fill plug out and fill the transmission directly. Again there is probably about a quart of oil in the transmission. It took 4 or 5 pump oil cans worth of oil and this was a small Ace hardware squirt oil can.

I haven't drained the headstock yet, the oil was clear in sight window. I did top it up to be half the sight window, fill plug is on the back side just below the front of the spindle. No idea yet were the drain plug is.

Apron only took a 1/4 of the amount of oil that the transmission took. Less then my cheap little pump oil can contained.

For what its worth that is my experience with the South Bend Fourteen since I purchased it 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Sorry for long post and probably a ton more information than you wanted.

Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman


watson.rick.101@...
 

FYI, this kind of trailer is very handy. There's a hydraulic lift that lowers the bed all the way to the ground. A friend and I moved a 3000 lb. milling machine with the trailer, some solid round-bar, and a large pry-bar/pusher. And, lots of straps. We were lucky in that we had level surfaces at both ends of the trip. I rented it at Sunbelt Rentals in Austin, TX; They are also available elsewhere. Check the website. (No personal connection except pleased customer.)

The sticker says www.JLG.com, 1-877-JLG-LIFT


Fred Flintstone
 

I paid a man with a car hauler, the bed tipped, he pulled them up with the winch, straighten the bed and delivered them. Was done in about an hour, was under $250 for two machines. I did only move them like 20 miles.

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 11:06 AM, "mark.jonkman@comcast.net [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Hi Alex
I just bought the same lathe and brought it home 2 weeks ago on a utility trailer. The lathe will weight approximately 1750 lbs. 
Unfortunately the design of the bed is a bit different then the design of the more common south bends. The ribs create an opening that has an angle the exits the back of the bed vs straight drop down through the bed. This means that when you try to lift the lathe through a rib it will try to roll over on its side very quickly. What we did was run a loop down through the channel and shoved a two by four through the loop vs trying to wrap around and come back up through a second hole.  You can only do this to one end, the other end absolutely must be picked up either slung around the bed or not recommended (but I had to do this) install a faceplate or chuck and then carefully sling around the D1-4 spindle end between the chuck and the head stock keeping very close to the headstock. This prevented tipping and actually reasonably balanced the load. 
As others have already mentioned if you loop around under the bed you have to put blocking in place to prevent pinching the lead screw.

During the loading we had access to a forklift so that made things easier. What I did was install some 4x4's perpendicular to the length of the bed. These 4x4's were about 36-40" long. This widened out the base of the lathe tremendously. I ran two heavy duty tie down straps over the bed, one at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. Then drove an hour or so through Richmond VA down 64 towards Charlottesville and that puppy did not move one iota. The outriggers really stabilized things, the straps where mostly for show. I think I looped one or both through the bed top side on the front and exiting out on the angle at the back and tied down to the floor of the trailer. This gave good down pressure and going through the bed this way made sure that it couldn't move forward or back.
I did not remove the gear box on mine nor the saddle or the taper attachment. I did remove the faceplate I had temporarily installed and anything on the compound as well as the tail stock. As someone mentioned the more you take off the lighter it will be and the less likely that in the event of a catastrophic tip over you won't smash all the handles.  Without standing at the lathe, I'm not sure you can take off the gear box, I think the casting or weldments for the headstock actually includes the gear box on this thing. I honestly don't recall seeing a line of separation but I'm at work and the lathe is at home and its still new to me so I could be wrong.
Getting it on the trailer was easy, getting it off was a slightly different story.
First in addition to the outriggers I had mounted castors on the 4x4's (harbor freight ones that I had handy). To prevent them from taking any weight during travel I had added a little piece 6" of additional 4x4 plus a 3/4" thick piece of oak under the 4x4's. This kept the castors just clear of the ground during transportation. My thought was I could roll this puppy off the trailer when I got home by just jacking up the lathe a hair with a floor jack, unscrewing the lag bolts holding these little end pieces kick them out and set the lathe down on the castors.  The castors being 5" from the each end of the 4x4 would still give it plenty of outrigger support and I could use a come along to control speed coming off ramp. Well you rocket scientists can probably guess what I didn't guess. The rubber castors shredded into little chunks in the first 18" of movement. The lag screws I had holding the 4x4 outriggers then took the brunt of the force and started to pull out. So basically we basically just removed the outriggers at that point. 
It was loaded on the trailer headstock toward front, tailstock toward end. The trailer had a built in ramp (wire mesh thing).  We hooked the engine hoist (cherry picker) to the edge of the ramp and basically hooked the strap to the last hole in the bed of the lathe and started lifting. I pushed against the headstock and end and the lathe slid reasonably well until the tailstock end was dangling directly below the end of the hoist. Then we set the tailstock end on the ground and moved the cherry picker over to pick up the headstock end carefully by spindle nose. Just enough to lift it off the trailer and then drove the trailer out from under it. We set it down on the forward legs of the cherry picker and while still maintaining vertical pressure (no lift) on the lathe we used that as a dolly to push it into the garage and into approximate place. Then with two straps one on the spindle and one looped through the bed we carefully lifted it an inch or so off the legs of the cherry picker and pushed the base out to clear the end of the lathe and with 3 people pushing the lathe toward vertical and one carefully letting down the hydraulic pressure we set the lathe upright on the floor in front of the cherry picker. 
There was a ton of improvising after plan A failed. I had two boys helping me (18 and 20 yrs old) on the movement into the garage. Getting it off the trailer was just my wife and one son.  We took it slow and careful, took almost an hour to get it off the trailer. The scariest part was pushing it off the cherry picker legs. That took a lot of faith to swing it out and make sure the hydraulics didn't drop too fast.
--
Things I'd do different:
1) Lag bolts to hold the 4x4s on should have been 1/2" or bigger and at least 5" long. I had 1/2" by 2.5" thinking that was long enough. I mounted them using the holes for the leveling feet (remove the leveling feet - 1-1/16" wrench to turn them out) then big washer to keep from pulling through.2) Caster idea okay, but would need to be steel castors not rubber.3) Idea to roll down ramp was a farce, instead I would do the lift via the tailstock to pull it off the trailer and set it on the ground (still need one person or more by headstock to push it) would be really nice to have a steel plate under the lathe on not wood and or plywood as I had (wheels sink in). 4) I'd lift the headstock end and drive out the trailer again but if it was on castors I'd make sure that I spin the hoist to set it down on the ground and not the arms of the hoist.
If I had a decent ramp then my original idea of come alongs to control the offloading by rolling it down the ramp might have worked just fine.
I'd also make sure I had access to a toe jack. Be willing to lift the end of the lathe increments using blocking every inch or so of height under back and front of each end as its lifted by the jack. Keep pipe handy to roll it on, make sure it was decent diameter and at least 6" or more wider then the lathe itself.  There are enough cross pieces of steel channel under each end - at least 2, that you can use pipe to carefully roll one end at a time to move it back toward a wall if needed after getting it roughly in place. 
With a toe jack (my latest investment) and some 1.5" diameter pipe I can now move my lathe small increments by myself. For some reason my sons have been avoiding me for the last 3 weeks.
Keep in mind the leveling feet are two parts, a small pad that fits under them and then the leveler part. They are also supposed to have an anti vibration rubber piece under them as well.
you can unscrew them from the bottom but if you need to lag screw the lathe to outriggers then you have to remove the end plate at the bottom of the headstock and the big plate at the front of the lathe to access the back ones.
I would strongly advise you to remove that front plate and inspect the insulation. One mine there was sound insulation inside the base to decrease the noise from the Reeve's drive. That insulation had disintegrated and the rubber backing come loose and was hanging over the DC drive that operates the Reeve's drive. Some of the plastic cover had already been sucked into the gears during a test run. Those are fiber and/or plastic gears. You do not want the heavy rubber backing to get sucked into those gears or you can kiss them goodbye. In my case there was a very thin plastic sheet overtop of the insulation and it, not the 1/8" rubber backing that got sucked into the gears and it did no harm. Still had to pick it out. I removed all insulation and as much of the rubber backing as I could without removing the box that holds the electrical.
The panels are all held on with button head cap screws - so a battery operated drill driver is a good thing to have handy with a set of allen head bits. I think the screws are 5/32" heads which I didn't have but a 4mm matched almost perfectly so I used that on my Bosch driver to get through them quickly.
Wiring up took me a bit of time. There are several posts on practical machinist that suggested that since some of the circuits are 3phase and some single phase that it was not a good idea to use a rotary phase converter or a VFD to power the machine. The single phase gets pulled of IL1 and returns on IL3 input lines. Taking that into account I did the following:
Single phase to a 220v electric switch mounted on wall next to VFD. Took two single phase lines out of the switch using pigtails to connect to the switch. One line up to the VFD and the 3 phase line back into the lathe. The other single phase line into the lathe. The main junction box on my lathe was behind the big front cover and it had a terminal bar in it. It had labels for IL1-IL3 that connected the power in cord to the 3 wires that run up to the control panel on top of the headstock. I simply disconnected the input lines from those terminals, as well as the output lines that went to the control box. I left in place the other wires running into IL3 terminal that are the return lines for completing the circuits of the single phase stuff. I then took the two single phase power lines (black an white wires) connect them to terminals IL1 and IL3 (nothing should be on IL2). I ran a new wire up to the control box and connected it to IL1. I use 3 empty terminals in the terminal bar (which were actually labelled T1-T3 and connected the former IL1-IL3 lines that go to the control box as well as the 3 input from the 3 phase there.
When you open the control panel on the top, mine has the drum switch. The terminals were all neatly marked and the wires were also marked IL1-IL3 and 2L1, T1-T3 (4 wires out). 2L1 is the power back to panel underneath and T1-T3 are the lines to the motor. I simply disconnected IL1-IL3 and connected them directly to T1-T3. I then connected the new wire from the panel to IL1.
In this arrangement, the 3 phase power now comes into the panel at the bottom of the lathe and directly goes up to the control panel at the top of the headstock, bypass the switch and goes straight to the motor. Therefore the VFD is happy 3 power lines are in effect connected straight to the motor with no switches in between. The single phase circuit is happy because it is still switched at the drum switch using the terminals it always used.
However we need a way of controlling the VFD. On my drum switch there were two rows of terminals on either side. Leaving  IL1 and 2L1 being the single phase circuit were the rear most set of terminals. I had to remove some crossover wires (bridges or whatever you want to call them), I think from the top row of terminals on the left side. Basically what I was trying to do was isolate the remaining terminals from the IL1/2L1 circuit and to create a condition where the DCM wire from the VFD could mount to the central terminal on the lower row of the left side and the FWD and REV could be mounted on the terminals on the right side of the switch. I believe there is a bridge on the bottom two on the left. Anyhow what you are shooting for is that when turned to the REVERSE the switch connects the DCM line to the REV line on the other side of the switch and when in FORWARD it connects DCM to FWD line and that IL1 and 2L1 are completely isolated. I then drilled a hole in the back of the top control panel and ran the VFD control lines back to the DCM, REV and FWD terminals on the VFD mounted on the wall behind the lathe.
This arrangement is critical - the VFD and the single phase circuits must be controlled by a single interrupter. The motor circuit must be wired directly to the VFD (I just tried to reuse the existing wiring mechanism with a few changes as listed above). Both the VFD and the single phase circuits must be connected to a single on off switch on the lathe if at all possible. This prevents one from attempting to alter the speed of the Reeves drive while the machine is not running. 
The entire reason for isolating the single phase Reeves/Tach circuits from the VFD circuits was that several posts claimed that when wired into a VFD or Rotary phase converter the tach would not read correctly and or the Reeve's drive might not function properly. Having read that I chose to run the separate circuits that I did and it works perfectly for me. Also the separation of circuits is a requirement to prevent a switch for the Reeve's drive controls from being between the VFD and the Reeve's drive motor.
I finished wiring it last weekend and have used the lathe every day since. The nice part, with the 220v disconnect switch I can turn on/off the VFD at the start of each day with a single flip of the switch from a conveniently placed location. I tend to hide my VFD into a box to prevent or reduce dust getting into it (that is not the case currently for this lathe as I didn't have a box).
For oil:
I emailed Mobil for current oils to match the ones in the manual.
Headstock, Transmission and Gearbox they said to use Mobil DTE Light (still on the market - enco has a 5 gallon pail only which I bought). Mobil suggested using the same in the Apron.
Use the regular South Bend Type C oil (Mobil DTE Heavy Medium) for the rest basically. 
I squirt way oil on the ways but I think they suggest just use Type C for the tailstock oilers and all the oilers on top of the saddle and the lead screw, cross slide screw and compound screws.
----
I gave the transmission an oil change last night. It drove me absolutely nuts so a couple of things to keep in mind:
On my lathe the drain plug for the transmission (lower end panel) is immediately above the motor. I had to cut a milk jug and form a funny flat drain pan to direct the oil into the container. It still made a mess. I think the plug is 1/4" pipe. I would strongly recommend buying a 2 or 3" long piece of pipe and a coupler that would accept the drain plug and make an extension out to where you can put a catch basin. 
Filling the transmission with oil was actually worse then emptying it. Mine had an elbow coming out with a short vertical exhaust/air breather valve on it. I couldn't get a grip on the elbow to unscrew it but could unscrew the exhaust valve thing. The location was too high up to put a funnel, the elbow blocked the flow of the oil into the top of the transmission. Finally I went and found a thin drinking straw with those corrugated elbows on it. I carefully threaded that down into the elbow and using a small cheap trigger pump oil can I proceeded to fill the transmission one squirt at a time. There isn't much oil in the transmission - maybe a quart of oil. But it took me an hour and a half to do the oil change and created a huge mess.  I don't have any suggestion there except to probably remove the actual elbow if you can get at it, replace it with a T with a fill plug on the end opposite of where it screws into the gear box and the little exhaust breather mechanism going out the top. Then you can take the fill plug out and fill the transmission directly. Again there is probably about a quart of oil in the transmission. It took 4 or 5 pump oil cans worth of oil and this was a small Ace hardware squirt oil can.
I haven't drained the headstock yet, the oil was clear in sight window. I did top it up to be half the sight window, fill plug is on the back side just below the front of the  spindle. No idea yet were the drain plug is.
Apron only took a 1/4 of the amount of oil that the transmission took. Less then my cheap little pump oil can contained. 
For what its worth that is my experience with the South Bend Fourteen since I purchased it 3 or 4 weeks ago.
Sorry for long post and probably a ton more information than you wanted.
Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman











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Alex Sanchez <alex@...>
 

Thanks for all the advice, I finally got my lathe moved, the four x four outriggers was great advised, I made my 48” long, in my case, we had a HI-Lo for loading in and one for off loading al placing.

I am going to work tonight in deciphering your advice for the wiring, I don’t have a diagram and I not familiar with Three Phase wiring so it may be a bit challenging.

Thanks again for the info.

Alex

On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:06 AM, mark.jonkman@comcast.net [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi Alex

I just bought the same lathe and brought it home 2 weeks ago on a utility trailer. The lathe will weight approximately 1750 lbs.

Unfortunately the design of the bed is a bit different then the design of the more common south bends. The ribs create an opening that has an angle the exits the back of the bed vs straight drop down through the bed. This means that when you try to lift the lathe through a rib it will try to roll over on its side very quickly. What we did was run a loop down through the channel and shoved a two by four through the loop vs trying to wrap around and come back up through a second hole. You can only do this to one end, the other end absolutely must be picked up either slung around the bed or not recommended (but I had to do this) install a faceplate or chuck and then carefully sling around the D1-4 spindle end between the chuck and the head stock keeping very close to the headstock. This prevented tipping and actually reasonably balanced the load.

As others have already mentioned if you loop around under the bed you have to put blocking in place to prevent pinching the lead screw.


During the loading we had access to a forklift so that made things easier. What I did was install some 4x4's perpendicular to the length of the bed. These 4x4's were about 36-40" long. This widened out the base of the lathe tremendously. I ran two heavy duty tie down straps over the bed, one at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. Then drove an hour or so through Richmond VA down 64 towards Charlottesville and that puppy did not move one iota. The outriggers really stabilized things, the straps where mostly for show. I think I looped one or both through the bed top side on the front and exiting out on the angle at the back and tied down to the floor of the trailer. This gave good down pressure and going through the bed this way made sure that it couldn't move forward or back.

I did not remove the gear box on mine nor the saddle or the taper attachment. I did remove the faceplate I had temporarily installed and anything on the compound as well as the tail stock. As someone mentioned the more you take off the lighter it will be and the less likely that in the event of a catastrophic tip over you won't smash all the handles. Without standing at the lathe, I'm not sure you can take off the gear box, I think the casting or weldments for the headstock actually includes the gear box on this thing. I honestly don't recall seeing a line of separation but I'm at work and the lathe is at home and its still new to me so I could be wrong.

Getting it on the trailer was easy, getting it off was a slightly different story.

First in addition to the outriggers I had mounted castors on the 4x4's (harbor freight ones that I had handy). To prevent them from taking any weight during travel I had added a little piece 6" of additional 4x4 plus a 3/4" thick piece of oak under the 4x4's. This kept the castors just clear of the ground during transportation. My thought was I could roll this puppy off the trailer when I got home by just jacking up the lathe a hair with a floor jack, unscrewing the lag bolts holding these little end pieces kick them out and set the lathe down on the castors. The castors being 5" from the each end of the 4x4 would still give it plenty of outrigger support and I could use a come along to control speed coming off ramp. Well you rocket scientists can probably guess what I didn't guess. The rubber castors shredded into little chunks in the first 18" of movement. The lag screws I had holding the 4x4 outriggers then took the brunt of the force and started to pull out. So basically we basically just removed the outriggers at that point.

It was loaded on the trailer headstock toward front, tailstock toward end. The trailer had a built in ramp (wire mesh thing). We hooked the engine hoist (cherry picker) to the edge of the ramp and basically hooked the strap to the last hole in the bed of the lathe and started lifting. I pushed against the headstock and end and the lathe slid reasonably well until the tailstock end was dangling directly below the end of the hoist. Then we set the tailstock end on the ground and moved the cherry picker over to pick up the headstock end carefully by spindle nose. Just enough to lift it off the trailer and then drove the trailer out from under it. We set it down on the forward legs of the cherry picker and while still maintaining vertical pressure (no lift) on the lathe we used that as a dolly to push it into the garage and into approximate place. Then with two straps one on the spindle and one looped through the bed we carefully lifted it an inch or so off the legs of the cherry picker and pushed the base out to clear the end of the lathe and with 3 people pushing the lathe toward vertical and one carefully letting down the hydraulic pressure we set the lathe upright on the floor in front of the cherry picker.

There was a ton of improvising after plan A failed. I had two boys helping me (18 and 20 yrs old) on the movement into the garage. Getting it off the trailer was just my wife and one son. We took it slow and careful, took almost an hour to get it off the trailer. The scariest part was pushing it off the cherry picker legs. That took a lot of faith to swing it out and make sure the hydraulics didn't drop too fast.

--

Things I'd do different:

1) Lag bolts to hold the 4x4s on should have been 1/2" or bigger and at least 5" long. I had 1/2" by 2.5" thinking that was long enough. I mounted them using the holes for the leveling feet (remove the leveling feet - 1-1/16" wrench to turn them out) then big washer to keep from pulling through.
2) Caster idea okay, but would need to be steel castors not rubber.
3) Idea to roll down ramp was a farce, instead I would do the lift via the tailstock to pull it off the trailer and set it on the ground (still need one person or more by headstock to push it) would be really nice to have a steel plate under the lathe on not wood and or plywood as I had (wheels sink in).
4) I'd lift the headstock end and drive out the trailer again but if it was on castors I'd make sure that I spin the hoist to set it down on the ground and not the arms of the hoist.

If I had a decent ramp then my original idea of come alongs to control the offloading by rolling it down the ramp might have worked just fine.

I'd also make sure I had access to a toe jack. Be willing to lift the end of the lathe increments using blocking every inch or so of height under back and front of each end as its lifted by the jack. Keep pipe handy to roll it on, make sure it was decent diameter and at least 6" or more wider then the lathe itself. There are enough cross pieces of steel channel under each end - at least 2, that you can use pipe to carefully roll one end at a time to move it back toward a wall if needed after getting it roughly in place.

With a toe jack (my latest investment) and some 1.5" diameter pipe I can now move my lathe small increments by myself. For some reason my sons have been avoiding me for the last 3 weeks.

Keep in mind the leveling feet are two parts, a small pad that fits under them and then the leveler part. They are also supposed to have an anti vibration rubber piece under them as well.

you can unscrew them from the bottom but if you need to lag screw the lathe to outriggers then you have to remove the end plate at the bottom of the headstock and the big plate at the front of the lathe to access the back ones.

I would strongly advise you to remove that front plate and inspect the insulation. One mine there was sound insulation inside the base to decrease the noise from the Reeve's drive. That insulation had disintegrated and the rubber backing come loose and was hanging over the DC drive that operates the Reeve's drive. Some of the plastic cover had already been sucked into the gears during a test run. Those are fiber and/or plastic gears. You do not want the heavy rubber backing to get sucked into those gears or you can kiss them goodbye. In my case there was a very thin plastic sheet overtop of the insulation and it, not the 1/8" rubber backing that got sucked into the gears and it did no harm. Still had to pick it out. I removed all insulation and as much of the rubber backing as I could without removing the box that holds the electrical.

The panels are all held on with button head cap screws - so a battery operated drill driver is a good thing to have handy with a set of allen head bits. I think the screws are 5/32" heads which I didn't have but a 4mm matched almost perfectly so I used that on my Bosch driver to get through them quickly.

Wiring up took me a bit of time. There are several posts on practical machinist that suggested that since some of the circuits are 3phase and some single phase that it was not a good idea to use a rotary phase converter or a VFD to power the machine. The single phase gets pulled of IL1 and returns on IL3 input lines. Taking that into account I did the following:

Single phase to a 220v electric switch mounted on wall next to VFD. Took two single phase lines out of the switch using pigtails to connect to the switch. One line up to the VFD and the 3 phase line back into the lathe. The other single phase line into the lathe. The main junction box on my lathe was behind the big front cover and it had a terminal bar in it. It had labels for IL1-IL3 that connected the power in cord to the 3 wires that run up to the control panel on top of the headstock. I simply disconnected the input lines from those terminals, as well as the output lines that went to the control box. I left in place the other wires running into IL3 terminal that are the return lines for completing the circuits of the single phase stuff. I then took the two single phase power lines (black an white wires) connect them to terminals IL1 and IL3 (nothing should be on IL2). I ran a new wire up to the control box and connected it to IL1. I use 3 empty terminals in the terminal bar (which were actually labelled T1-T3 and connected the former IL1-IL3 lines that go to the control box as well as the 3 input from the 3 phase there.

When you open the control panel on the top, mine has the drum switch. The terminals were all neatly marked and the wires were also marked IL1-IL3 and 2L1, T1-T3 (4 wires out). 2L1 is the power back to panel underneath and T1-T3 are the lines to the motor. I simply disconnected IL1-IL3 and connected them directly to T1-T3. I then connected the new wire from the panel to IL1.

In this arrangement, the 3 phase power now comes into the panel at the bottom of the lathe and directly goes up to the control panel at the top of the headstock, bypass the switch and goes straight to the motor. Therefore the VFD is happy 3 power lines are in effect connected straight to the motor with no switches in between. The single phase circuit is happy because it is still switched at the drum switch using the terminals it always used.

However we need a way of controlling the VFD. On my drum switch there were two rows of terminals on either side. Leaving IL1 and 2L1 being the single phase circuit were the rear most set of terminals. I had to remove some crossover wires (bridges or whatever you want to call them), I think from the top row of terminals on the left side. Basically what I was trying to do was isolate the remaining terminals from the IL1/2L1 circuit and to create a condition where the DCM wire from the VFD could mount to the central terminal on the lower row of the left side and the FWD and REV could be mounted on the terminals on the right side of the switch. I believe there is a bridge on the bottom two on the left. Anyhow what you are shooting for is that when turned to the REVERSE the switch connects the DCM line to the REV line on the other side of the switch and when in FORWARD it connects DCM to FWD line and that IL1 and 2L1 are completely isolated. I then drilled a hole in the back of the top control panel and ran the VFD control lines back to the DCM, REV and FWD terminals on the VFD mounted on the wall behind the lathe.

This arrangement is critical - the VFD and the single phase circuits must be controlled by a single interrupter. The motor circuit must be wired directly to the VFD (I just tried to reuse the existing wiring mechanism with a few changes as listed above). Both the VFD and the single phase circuits must be connected to a single on off switch on the lathe if at all possible. This prevents one from attempting to alter the speed of the Reeves drive while the machine is not running.

The entire reason for isolating the single phase Reeves/Tach circuits from the VFD circuits was that several posts claimed that when wired into a VFD or Rotary phase converter the tach would not read correctly and or the Reeve's drive might not function properly. Having read that I chose to run the separate circuits that I did and it works perfectly for me. Also the separation of circuits is a requirement to prevent a switch for the Reeve's drive controls from being between the VFD and the Reeve's drive motor.

I finished wiring it last weekend and have used the lathe every day since. The nice part, with the 220v disconnect switch I can turn on/off the VFD at the start of each day with a single flip of the switch from a conveniently placed location. I tend to hide my VFD into a box to prevent or reduce dust getting into it (that is not the case currently for this lathe as I didn't have a box).

For oil:

I emailed Mobil for current oils to match the ones in the manual.

Headstock, Transmission and Gearbox they said to use Mobil DTE Light (still on the market - enco has a 5 gallon pail only which I bought). Mobil suggested using the same in the Apron.

Use the regular South Bend Type C oil (Mobil DTE Heavy Medium) for the rest basically.

I squirt way oil on the ways but I think they suggest just use Type C for the tailstock oilers and all the oilers on top of the saddle and the lead screw, cross slide screw and compound screws.

----

I gave the transmission an oil change last night. It drove me absolutely nuts so a couple of things to keep in mind:

On my lathe the drain plug for the transmission (lower end panel) is immediately above the motor. I had to cut a milk jug and form a funny flat drain pan to direct the oil into the container. It still made a mess. I think the plug is 1/4" pipe. I would strongly recommend buying a 2 or 3" long piece of pipe and a coupler that would accept the drain plug and make an extension out to where you can put a catch basin.

Filling the transmission with oil was actually worse then emptying it. Mine had an elbow coming out with a short vertical exhaust/air breather valve on it. I couldn't get a grip on the elbow to unscrew it but could unscrew the exhaust valve thing. The location was too high up to put a funnel, the elbow blocked the flow of the oil into the top of the transmission. Finally I went and found a thin drinking straw with those corrugated elbows on it. I carefully threaded that down into the elbow and using a small cheap trigger pump oil can I proceeded to fill the transmission one squirt at a time. There isn't much oil in the transmission - maybe a quart of oil. But it took me an hour and a half to do the oil change and created a huge mess. I don't have any suggestion there except to probably remove the actual elbow if you can get at it, replace it with a T with a fill plug on the end opposite of where it screws into the gear box and the little exhaust breather mechanism going out the top. Then you can take the fill plug out and fill the transmission directly. Again there is probably about a quart of oil in the transmission. It took 4 or 5 pump oil cans worth of oil and this was a small Ace hardware squirt oil can.

I haven't drained the headstock yet, the oil was clear in sight window. I did top it up to be half the sight window, fill plug is on the back side just below the front of the spindle. No idea yet were the drain plug is.

Apron only took a 1/4 of the amount of oil that the transmission took. Less then my cheap little pump oil can contained.

For what its worth that is my experience with the South Bend Fourteen since I purchased it 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Sorry for long post and probably a ton more information than you wanted.

Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman














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Mark R. Jonkman
 

On mine, the main panel had a wiring diagram number. Look it up and let me know. I have 4 different wiring diagrams sitting here.

Which version of the fourteen do you have the hi/lo in the middle of the front or the one with the little handle on the top of the pedestal just to the right of the headstock?

mark


From: "Alex Sanchez alex@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: "southbendlathe"
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:15:02 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] South Bend FOURTEEN

 

Thanks for all the advice, I finally got my lathe moved, the four x four outriggers was great advised, I made my 48” long, in my case, we had a HI-Lo for loading in and one for off loading al placing.


I am going to work tonight in deciphering your advice for the wiring, I don’t have a diagram and I not familiar with Three Phase wiring so it may be a bit challenging.

Thanks again for the info.

Alex

On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:06 AM, mark.jonkman@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hi Alex

I just bought the same lathe and brought it home 2 weeks ago on a utility trailer. The lathe will weight approximately 1750 lbs. 

Unfortunately the design of the bed is a bit different then the design of the more common south bends. The ribs create an opening that has an angle the exits the back of the bed vs straight drop down through the bed. This means that when you try to lift the lathe through a rib it will try to roll over on its side very quickly. What we did was run a loop down through the channel and shoved a two by four through the loop vs trying to wrap around and come back up through a second hole.  You can only do this to one end, the other end absolutely must be picked up either slung around the bed or not recommended (but I had to do this) install a faceplate or chuck and then carefully sling around the D1-4 spindle end between the chuck and the head stock keeping very close to the headstock. This prevented tipping and actually reasonably balanced the load. 

As others have already mentioned if you loop around under the bed you have to put blocking in place to prevent pinching the lead screw.


During the loading we had access to a forklift so that made things easier. What I did was install some 4x4's perpendicular to the length of the bed. These 4x4's were about 36-40" long. This widened out the base of the lathe tremendously. I ran two heavy duty tie down straps over the bed, one at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. Then drove an hour or so through Richmond VA down 64 towards Charlottesville and that puppy did not move one iota. The outriggers really stabilized things, the straps where mostly for show. I think I looped one or both through the bed top side on the front and exiting out on the angle at the back and tied down to the floor of the trailer. This gave good down pressure and going through the bed this way made sure that it couldn't move forward or back.

I did not remove the gear box on mine nor the saddle or the taper attachment. I did remove the faceplate I had temporarily installed and anything on the compound as well as the tail stock. As someone mentioned the more you take off the lighter it will be and the less likely that in the event of a catastrophic tip over you won't smash all the handles.  Without standing at the lathe, I'm not sure you can take off the gear box, I think the casting or weldments for the headstock actually includes the gear box on this thing. I honestly don't recall seeing a line of separation but I'm at work and the lathe is at home and its still new to me so I could be wrong.

Getting it on the trailer was easy, getting it off was a slightly different story.

First in addition to the outriggers I had mounted castors on the 4x4's (harbor freight ones that I had handy). To prevent them from taking any weight during travel I had added a little piece 6" of additional 4x4 plus a 3/4" thick piece of oak under the 4x4's. This kept the castors just clear of the ground during transportation. My thought was I could roll this puppy off the trailer when I got home by just jacking up the lathe a hair with a floor jack, unscrewing the lag bolts holding these little end pieces kick them out and set the lathe down on the castors.  The castors being 5" from the each end of the 4x4 would still give it plenty of outrigger support and I could use a come along to control speed coming off ramp. Well you rocket scientists can probably guess what I didn't guess. The rubber castors shredded into little chunks in the first 18" of movement. The lag screws I had holding the 4x4 outriggers then took the brunt of the force and started to pull out. So basically we basically just removed the outriggers at that point. 

It was loaded on the trailer headstock toward front, tailstock toward end. The trailer had a built in ramp (wire mesh thing).  We hooked the engine hoist (cherry picker) to the edge of the ramp and basically hooked the strap to the last hole in the bed of the lathe and started lifting. I pushed against the headstock and end and the lathe slid reasonably well until the tailstock end was dangling directly below the end of the hoist. Then we set the tailstock end on the ground and moved the cherry picker over to pick up the headstock end carefully by spindle nose. Just enough to lift it off the trailer and then drove the trailer out from under it. We set it down on the forward legs of the cherry picker and while still maintaining vertical pressure (no lift) on the lathe we used that as a dolly to push it into the garage and into approximate place. Then with two straps one on the spindle and one looped through the bed we carefully lifted it an inch or so off the legs of the cherry picker and pushed the base out to clear the end of the lathe and with 3 people pushing the lathe toward vertical and one carefully letting down the hydraulic pressure we set the lathe upright on the floor in front of the cherry picker. 

There was a ton of improvising after plan A failed. I had two boys helping me (18 and 20 yrs old) on the movement into the garage. Getting it off the trailer was just my wife and one son.  We took it slow and careful, took almost an hour to get it off the trailer. The scariest part was pushing it off the cherry picker legs. That took a lot of faith to swing it out and make sure the hydraulics didn't drop too fast.

--

Things I'd do different:

1) Lag bolts to hold the 4x4s on should have been 1/2" or bigger and at least 5" long. I had 1/2" by 2.5" thinking that was long enough. I mounted them using the holes for the leveling feet (remove the leveling feet - 1-1/16" wrench to turn them out) then big washer to keep from pulling through.
2) Caster idea okay, but would need to be steel castors not rubber.
3) Idea to roll down ramp was a farce, instead I would do the lift via the tailstock to pull it off the trailer and set it on the ground (still need one person or more by headstock to push it) would be really nice to have a steel plate under the lathe on not wood and or plywood as I had (wheels sink in). 
4) I'd lift the headstock end and drive out the trailer again but if it was on castors I'd make sure that I spin the hoist to set it down on the ground and not the arms of the hoist.

If I had a decent ramp then my original idea of come alongs to control the offloading by rolling it down the ramp might have worked just fine.

I'd also make sure I had access to a toe jack. Be willing to lift the end of the lathe increments using blocking every inch or so of height under back and front of each end as its lifted by the jack. Keep pipe handy to roll it on, make sure it was decent diameter and at least 6" or more wider then the lathe itself.  There are enough cross pieces of steel channel under each end - at least 2, that you can use pipe to carefully roll one end at a time to move it back toward a wall if needed after getting it roughly in place. 

With a toe jack (my latest investment) and some 1.5" diameter pipe I can now move my lathe small increments by myself. For some reason my sons have been avoiding me for the last 3 weeks.

Keep in mind the leveling feet are two parts, a small pad that fits under them and then the leveler part. They are also supposed to have an anti vibration rubber piece under them as well.

you can unscrew them from the bottom but if you need to lag screw the lathe to outriggers then you have to remove the end plate at the bottom of the headstock and the big plate at the front of the lathe to access the back ones.

I would strongly advise you to remove that front plate and inspect the insulation. One mine there was sound insulation inside the base to decrease the noise from the Reeve's drive. That insulation had disintegrated and the rubber backing come loose and was hanging over the DC drive that operates the Reeve's drive. Some of the plastic cover had already been sucked into the gears during a test run. Those are fiber and/or plastic gears. You do not want the heavy rubber backing to get sucked into those gears or you can kiss them goodbye. In my case there was a very thin plastic sheet overtop of the insulation and it, not the 1/8" rubber backing that got sucked into the gears and it did no harm. Still had to pick it out. I removed all insulation and as much of the rubber backing as I could without removing the box that holds the electrical.

The panels are all held on with button head cap screws - so a battery operated drill driver is a good thing to have handy with a set of allen head bits. I think the screws are 5/32" heads which I didn't have but a 4mm matched almost perfectly so I used that on my Bosch driver to get through them quickly.

Wiring up took me a bit of time. There are several posts on practical machinist that suggested that since some of the circuits are 3phase and some single phase that it was not a good idea to use a rotary phase converter or a VFD to power the machine. The single phase gets pulled of IL1 and returns on IL3 input lines. Taking that into account I did the following:

Single phase to a 220v electric switch mounted on wall next to VFD. Took two single phase lines out of the switch using pigtails to connect to the switch. One line up to the VFD and the 3 phase line back into the lathe. The other single phase line into the lathe. The main junction box on my lathe was behind the big front cover and it had a terminal bar in it. It had labels for IL1-IL3 that connected the power in cord to the 3 wires that run up to the control panel on top of the headstock. I simply disconnected the input lines from those terminals, as well as the output lines that went to the control box. I left in place the other wires running into IL3 terminal that are the return lines for completing the circuits of the single phase stuff. I then took the two single phase power lines (black an white wires) connect them to terminals IL1 and IL3 (nothing should be on IL2). I ran a new wire up to the control box and connected it to IL1. I use 3 empty terminals in the terminal bar (which were actually labelled T1-T3 and connected the former IL1-IL3 lines that go to the control box as well as the 3 input from the 3 phase there.

When you open the control panel on the top, mine has the drum switch. The terminals were all neatly marked and the wires were also marked IL1-IL3 and 2L1, T1-T3 (4 wires out). 2L1 is the power back to panel underneath and T1-T3 are the lines to the motor. I simply disconnected IL1-IL3 and connected them directly to T1-T3. I then connected the new wire from the panel to IL1.

In this arrangement, the 3 phase power now comes into the panel at the bottom of the lathe and directly goes up to the control panel at the top of the headstock, bypass the switch and goes straight to the motor. Therefore the VFD is happy 3 power lines are in effect connected straight to the motor with no switches in between. The single phase circuit is happy because it is still switched at the drum switch using the terminals it always used.

However we need a way of controlling the VFD. On my drum switch there were two rows of terminals on either side. Leaving  IL1 and 2L1 being the single phase circuit were the rear most set of terminals. I had to remove some crossover wires (bridges or whatever you want to call them), I think from the top row of terminals on the left side. Basically what I was trying to do was isolate the remaining terminals from the IL1/2L1 circuit and to create a condition where the DCM wire from the VFD could mount to the central terminal on the lower row of the left side and the FWD and REV could be mounted on the terminals on the right side of the switch. I believe there is a bridge on the bottom two on the left. Anyhow what you are shooting for is that when turned to the REVERSE the switch connects the DCM line to the REV line on the other side of the switch and when in FORWARD it connects DCM to FWD line and that IL1 and 2L1 are completely isolated. I then drilled a hole in the back of the top control panel and ran the VFD control lines back to the DCM, REV and FWD terminals on the VFD mounted on the wall behind the lathe.

This arrangement is critical - the VFD and the single phase circuits must be controlled by a single interrupter. The motor circuit must be wired directly to the VFD (I just tried to reuse the existing wiring mechanism with a few changes as listed above). Both the VFD and the single phase circuits must be connected to a single on off switch on the lathe if at all possible. This prevents one from attempting to alter the speed of the Reeves drive while the machine is not running. 

The entire reason for isolating the single phase Reeves/Tach circuits from the VFD circuits was that several posts claimed that when wired into a VFD or Rotary phase converter the tach would not read correctly and or the Reeve's drive might not function properly. Having read that I chose to run the separate circuits that I did and it works perfectly for me. Also the separation of circuits is a requirement to prevent a switch for the Reeve's drive controls from being between the VFD and the Reeve's drive motor.

I finished wiring it last weekend and have used the lathe every day since. The nice part, with the 220v disconnect switch I can turn on/off the VFD at the start of each day with a single flip of the switch from a conveniently placed location. I tend to hide my VFD into a box to prevent or reduce dust getting into it (that is not the case currently for this lathe as I didn't have a box).

For oil:

I emailed Mobil for current oils to match the ones in the manual.

Headstock, Transmission and Gearbox they said to use Mobil DTE Light (still on the market - enco has a 5 gallon pail only which I bought). Mobil suggested using the same in the Apron.

Use the regular South Bend Type C oil (Mobil DTE Heavy Medium) for the rest basically. 

I squirt way oil on the ways but I think they suggest just use Type C for the tailstock oilers and all the oilers on top of the saddle and the lead screw, cross slide screw and compound screws.

----

I gave the transmission an oil change last night. It drove me absolutely nuts so a couple of things to keep in mind:

On my lathe the drain plug for the transmission (lower end panel) is immediately above the motor. I had to cut a milk jug and form a funny flat drain pan to direct the oil into the container. It still made a mess. I think the plug is 1/4" pipe. I would strongly recommend buying a 2 or 3" long piece of pipe and a coupler that would accept the drain plug and make an extension out to where you can put a catch basin. 

Filling the transmission with oil was actually worse then emptying it. Mine had an elbow coming out with a short vertical exhaust/air breather valve on it. I couldn't get a grip on the elbow to unscrew it but could unscrew the exhaust valve thing. The location was too high up to put a funnel, the elbow blocked the flow of the oil into the top of the transmission. Finally I went and found a thin drinking straw with those corrugated elbows on it. I carefully threaded that down into the elbow and using a small cheap trigger pump oil can I proceeded to fill the transmission one squirt at a time. There isn't much oil in the transmission - maybe a quart of oil. But it took me an hour and a half to do the oil change and created a huge mess.  I don't have any suggestion there except to probably remove the actual elbow if you can get at it, replace it with a T with a fill plug on the end opposite of where it screws into the gear box and the little exhaust breather mechanism going out the top. Then you can take the fill plug out and fill the transmission directly. Again there is probably about a quart of oil in the transmission. It took 4 or 5 pump oil cans worth of oil and this was a small Ace hardware squirt oil can.

I haven't drained the headstock yet, the oil was clear in sight window. I did top it up to be half the sight window, fill plug is on the back side just below the front of the  spindle. No idea yet were the drain plug is.

Apron only took a 1/4 of the amount of oil that the transmission took. Less then my cheap little pump oil can contained. 

For what its worth that is my experience with the South Bend Fourteen since I purchased it 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Sorry for long post and probably a ton more information than you wanted.

Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman















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Alex Sanchez <alex@...>
 

My has the handle by the head stock, Serial number 71-TT-467.



On Dec 23, 2015, at 6:22 PM, mark.jonkman@comcast.net [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


On mine, the main panel had a wiring diagram number. Look it up and let me know. I have 4 different wiring diagrams sitting here.

Which version of the fourteen do you have the hi/lo in the middle of the front or the one with the little handle on the top of the pedestal just to the right of the headstock?

mark

From: "Alex Sanchez alex@condumex.com <mailto:alex@condumex.com> [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>>
To: "southbendlathe" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:15:02 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] South Bend FOURTEEN


Thanks for all the advice, I finally got my lathe moved, the four x four outriggers was great advised, I made my 48” long, in my case, we had a HI-Lo for loading in and one for off loading al placing.


I am going to work tonight in deciphering your advice for the wiring, I don’t have a diagram and I not familiar with Three Phase wiring so it may be a bit challenging.

Thanks again for the info.

Alex

On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:06 AM, mark.jonkman@comcast.net <mailto:mark.jonkman@comcast.net> [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:



Hi Alex

I just bought the same lathe and brought it home 2 weeks ago on a utility trailer. The lathe will weight approximately 1750 lbs.

Unfortunately the design of the bed is a bit different then the design of the more common south bends. The ribs create an opening that has an angle the exits the back of the bed vs straight drop down through the bed. This means that when you try to lift the lathe through a rib it will try to roll over on its side very quickly. What we did was run a loop down through the channel and shoved a two by four through the loop vs trying to wrap around and come back up through a second hole. You can only do this to one end, the other end absolutely must be picked up either slung around the bed or not recommended (but I had to do this) install a faceplate or chuck and then carefully sling around the D1-4 spindle end between the chuck and the head stock keeping very close to the headstock. This prevented tipping and actually reasonably balanced the load.

As others have already mentioned if you loop around under the bed you have to put blocking in place to prevent pinching the lead screw.


During the loading we had access to a forklift so that made things easier. What I did was install some 4x4's perpendicular to the length of the bed. These 4x4's were about 36-40" long. This widened out the base of the lathe tremendously. I ran two heavy duty tie down straps over the bed, one at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. Then drove an hour or so through Richmond VA down 64 towards Charlottesville and that puppy did not move one iota. The outriggers really stabilized things, the straps where mostly for show. I think I looped one or both through the bed top side on the front and exiting out on the angle at the back and tied down to the floor of the trailer. This gave good down pressure and going through the bed this way made sure that it couldn't move forward or back.

I did not remove the gear box on mine nor the saddle or the taper attachment. I did remove the faceplate I had temporarily installed and anything on the compound as well as the tail stock. As someone mentioned the more you take off the lighter it will be and the less likely that in the event of a catastrophic tip over you won't smash all the handles. Without standing at the lathe, I'm not sure you can take off the gear box, I think the casting or weldments for the headstock actually includes the gear box on this thing. I honestly don't recall seeing a line of separation but I'm at work and the lathe is at home and its still new to me so I could be wrong.

Getting it on the trailer was easy, getting it off was a slightly different story.

First in addition to the outriggers I had mounted castors on the 4x4's (harbor freight ones that I had handy). To prevent them from taking any weight during travel I had added a little piece 6" of additional 4x4 plus a 3/4" thick piece of oak under the 4x4's. This kept the castors just clear of the ground during transportation. My thought was I could roll this puppy off the trailer when I got home by just jacking up the lathe a hair with a floor jack, unscrewing the lag bolts holding these little end pieces kick them out and set the lathe down on the castors. The castors being 5" from the each end of the 4x4 would still give it plenty of outrigger support and I could use a come along to control speed coming off ramp. Well you rocket scientists can probably guess what I didn't guess. The rubber castors shredded into little chunks in the first 18" of movement. The lag screws I had holding the 4x4 outriggers then took the brunt of the force and started to pull out. So basically we basically just removed the outriggers at that point.

It was loaded on the trailer headstock toward front, tailstock toward end. The trailer had a built in ramp (wire mesh thing). We hooked the engine hoist (cherry picker) to the edge of the ramp and basically hooked the strap to the last hole in the bed of the lathe and started lifting. I pushed against the headstock and end and the lathe slid reasonably well until the tailstock end was dangling directly below the end of the hoist. Then we set the tailstock end on the ground and moved the cherry picker over to pick up the headstock end carefully by spindle nose. Just enough to lift it off the trailer and then drove the trailer out from under it. We set it down on the forward legs of the cherry picker and while still maintaining vertical pressure (no lift) on the lathe we used that as a dolly to push it into the garage and into approximate place. Then with two straps one on the spindle and one looped through the bed we carefully lifted it an inch or so off the legs of the cherry picker and pushed the base out to clear the end of the lathe and with 3 people pushing the lathe toward vertical and one carefully letting down the hydraulic pressure we set the lathe upright on the floor in front of the cherry picker.

There was a ton of improvising after plan A failed. I had two boys helping me (18 and 20 yrs old) on the movement into the garage. Getting it off the trailer was just my wife and one son. We took it slow and careful, took almost an hour to get it off the trailer. The scariest part was pushing it off the cherry picker legs. That took a lot of faith to swing it out and make sure the hydraulics didn't drop too fast.

--

Things I'd do different:

1) Lag bolts to hold the 4x4s on should have been 1/2" or bigger and at least 5" long. I had 1/2" by 2.5" thinking that was long enough. I mounted them using the holes for the leveling feet (remove the leveling feet - 1-1/16" wrench to turn them out) then big washer to keep from pulling through.
2) Caster idea okay, but would need to be steel castors not rubber.
3) Idea to roll down ramp was a farce, instead I would do the lift via the tailstock to pull it off the trailer and set it on the ground (still need one person or more by headstock to push it) would be really nice to have a steel plate under the lathe on not wood and or plywood as I had (wheels sink in).
4) I'd lift the headstock end and drive out the trailer again but if it was on castors I'd make sure that I spin the hoist to set it down on the ground and not the arms of the hoist.

If I had a decent ramp then my original idea of come alongs to control the offloading by rolling it down the ramp might have worked just fine.

I'd also make sure I had access to a toe jack. Be willing to lift the end of the lathe increments using blocking every inch or so of height under back and front of each end as its lifted by the jack. Keep pipe handy to roll it on, make sure it was decent diameter and at least 6" or more wider then the lathe itself. There are enough cross pieces of steel channel under each end - at least 2, that you can use pipe to carefully roll one end at a time to move it back toward a wall if needed after getting it roughly in place.

With a toe jack (my latest investment) and some 1.5" diameter pipe I can now move my lathe small increments by myself. For some reason my sons have been avoiding me for the last 3 weeks.

Keep in mind the leveling feet are two parts, a small pad that fits under them and then the leveler part. They are also supposed to have an anti vibration rubber piece under them as well.

you can unscrew them from the bottom but if you need to lag screw the lathe to outriggers then you have to remove the end plate at the bottom of the headstock and the big plate at the front of the lathe to access the back ones.

I would strongly advise you to remove that front plate and inspect the insulation. One mine there was sound insulation inside the base to decrease the noise from the Reeve's drive. That insulation had disintegrated and the rubber backing come loose and was hanging over the DC drive that operates the Reeve's drive. Some of the plastic cover had already been sucked into the gears during a test run. Those are fiber and/or plastic gears. You do not want the heavy rubber backing to get sucked into those gears or you can kiss them goodbye. In my case there was a very thin plastic sheet overtop of the insulation and it, not the 1/8" rubber backing that got sucked into the gears and it did no harm. Still had to pick it out. I removed all insulation and as much of the rubber backing as I could without removing the box that holds the electrical.

The panels are all held on with button head cap screws - so a battery operated drill driver is a good thing to have handy with a set of allen head bits. I think the screws are 5/32" heads which I didn't have but a 4mm matched almost perfectly so I used that on my Bosch driver to get through them quickly.

Wiring up took me a bit of time. There are several posts on practical machinist that suggested that since some of the circuits are 3phase and some single phase that it was not a good idea to use a rotary phase converter or a VFD to power the machine. The single phase gets pulled of IL1 and returns on IL3 input lines. Taking that into account I did the following:

Single phase to a 220v electric switch mounted on wall next to VFD. Took two single phase lines out of the switch using pigtails to connect to the switch. One line up to the VFD and the 3 phase line back into the lathe. The other single phase line into the lathe. The main junction box on my lathe was behind the big front cover and it had a terminal bar in it. It had labels for IL1-IL3 that connected the power in cord to the 3 wires that run up to the control panel on top of the headstock. I simply disconnected the input lines from those terminals, as well as the output lines that went to the control box. I left in place the other wires running into IL3 terminal that are the return lines for completing the circuits of the single phase stuff. I then took the two single phase power lines (black an white wires) connect them to terminals IL1 and IL3 (nothing should be on IL2). I ran a new wire up to the control box and connected it to IL1. I use 3 empty terminals in the terminal bar (which were actually labelled T1-T3 and connected the former IL1-IL3 lines that go to the control box as well as the 3 input from the 3 phase there.

When you open the control panel on the top, mine has the drum switch. The terminals were all neatly marked and the wires were also marked IL1-IL3 and 2L1, T1-T3 (4 wires out). 2L1 is the power back to panel underneath and T1-T3 are the lines to the motor. I simply disconnected IL1-IL3 and connected them directly to T1-T3. I then connected the new wire from the panel to IL1.

In this arrangement, the 3 phase power now comes into the panel at the bottom of the lathe and directly goes up to the control panel at the top of the headstock, bypass the switch and goes straight to the motor. Therefore the VFD is happy 3 power lines are in effect connected straight to the motor with no switches in between. The single phase circuit is happy because it is still switched at the drum switch using the terminals it always used.

However we need a way of controlling the VFD. On my drum switch there were two rows of terminals on either side. Leaving IL1 and 2L1 being the single phase circuit were the rear most set of terminals. I had to remove some crossover wires (bridges or whatever you want to call them), I think from the top row of terminals on the left side. Basically what I was trying to do was isolate the remaining terminals from the IL1/2L1 circuit and to create a condition where the DCM wire from the VFD could mount to the central terminal on the lower row of the left side and the FWD and REV could be mounted on the terminals on the right side of the switch. I believe there is a bridge on the bottom two on the left. Anyhow what you are shooting for is that when turned to the REVERSE the switch connects the DCM line to the REV line on the other side of the switch and when in FORWARD it connects DCM to FWD line and that IL1 and 2L1 are completely isolated. I then drilled a hole in the back of the top control panel and ran the VFD control lines back to the DCM, REV and FWD terminals on the VFD mounted on the wall behind the lathe.

This arrangement is critical - the VFD and the single phase circuits must be controlled by a single interrupter. The motor circuit must be wired directly to the VFD (I just tried to reuse the existing wiring mechanism with a few changes as listed above). Both the VFD and the single phase circuits must be connected to a single on off switch on the lathe if at all possible. This prevents one from attempting to alter the speed of the Reeves drive while the machine is not running.

The entire reason for isolating the single phase Reeves/Tach circuits from the VFD circuits was that several posts claimed that when wired into a VFD or Rotary phase converter the tach would not read correctly and or the Reeve's drive might not function properly. Having read that I chose to run the separate circuits that I did and it works perfectly for me. Also the separation of circuits is a requirement to prevent a switch for the Reeve's drive controls from being between the VFD and the Reeve's drive motor.

I finished wiring it last weekend and have used the lathe every day since. The nice part, with the 220v disconnect switch I can turn on/off the VFD at the start of each day with a single flip of the switch from a conveniently placed location. I tend to hide my VFD into a box to prevent or reduce dust getting into it (that is not the case currently for this lathe as I didn't have a box).

For oil:

I emailed Mobil for current oils to match the ones in the manual.

Headstock, Transmission and Gearbox they said to use Mobil DTE Light (still on the market - enco has a 5 gallon pail only which I bought). Mobil suggested using the same in the Apron.

Use the regular South Bend Type C oil (Mobil DTE Heavy Medium) for the rest basically.

I squirt way oil on the ways but I think they suggest just use Type C for the tailstock oilers and all the oilers on top of the saddle and the lead screw, cross slide screw and compound screws.

----

I gave the transmission an oil change last night. It drove me absolutely nuts so a couple of things to keep in mind:

On my lathe the drain plug for the transmission (lower end panel) is immediately above the motor. I had to cut a milk jug and form a funny flat drain pan to direct the oil into the container. It still made a mess. I think the plug is 1/4" pipe. I would strongly recommend buying a 2 or 3" long piece of pipe and a coupler that would accept the drain plug and make an extension out to where you can put a catch basin.

Filling the transmission with oil was actually worse then emptying it. Mine had an elbow coming out with a short vertical exhaust/air breather valve on it. I couldn't get a grip on the elbow to unscrew it but could unscrew the exhaust valve thing. The location was too high up to put a funnel, the elbow blocked the flow of the oil into the top of the transmission. Finally I went and found a thin drinking straw with those corrugated elbows on it. I carefully threaded that down into the elbow and using a small cheap trigger pump oil can I proceeded to fill the transmission one squirt at a time. There isn't much oil in the transmission - maybe a quart of oil. But it took me an hour and a half to do the oil change and created a huge mess. I don't have any suggestion there except to probably remove the actual elbow if you can get at it, replace it with a T with a fill plug on the end opposite of where it screws into the gear box and the little exhaust breather mechanism going out the top. Then you can take the fill plug out and fill the transmission directly. Again there is probably about a quart of oil in the transmission. It took 4 or 5 pump oil cans worth of oil and this was a small Ace hardware squirt oil can.

I haven't drained the headstock yet, the oil was clear in sight window. I did top it up to be half the sight window, fill plug is on the back side just below the front of the spindle. No idea yet were the drain plug is.

Apron only took a 1/4 of the amount of oil that the transmission took. Less then my cheap little pump oil can contained.

For what its worth that is my experience with the South Bend Fourteen since I purchased it 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Sorry for long post and probably a ton more information than you wanted.

Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman















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Disclaimer

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the recipient(s). If you are not the named addressee you should
not disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or
opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and might
not represent those of the company. Warning: Although the company has taken
reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the
company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from
the use of this email or attachments.


Mark R. Jonkman
 

I tried to send you the wiring diagrams off list but looks like I'm getting a delivery failure will look at it when I get back to the house.

Mark

On Dec 23, 2015, at 7:49 PM, Alex Sanchez alex@condumex.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

My has the handle by the head stock, Serial number 71-TT-467.


<IMG_7784.JPG>

On Dec 23, 2015, at 6:22 PM, mark.jonkman@comcast.net [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


On mine, the main panel had a wiring diagram number. Look it up and let me know. I have 4 different wiring diagrams sitting here.

Which version of the fourteen do you have the hi/lo in the middle of the front or the one with the little handle on the top of the pedestal just to the right of the headstock?

mark

From: "Alex Sanchez alex@condumex.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
To: "southbendlathe" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:15:02 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] South Bend FOURTEEN


Thanks for all the advice, I finally got my lathe moved, the four x four outriggers was great advised, I made my 48” long, in my case, we had a HI-Lo for loading in and one for off loading al placing.


I am going to work tonight in deciphering your advice for the wiring, I don’t have a diagram and I not familiar with Three Phase wiring so it may be a bit challenging.

Thanks again for the info.

Alex

On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:06 AM, mark.jonkman@comcast.net [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Alex

I just bought the same lathe and brought it home 2 weeks ago on a utility trailer. The lathe will weight approximately 1750 lbs.

Unfortunately the design of the bed is a bit different then the design of the more common south bends. The ribs create an opening that has an angle the exits the back of the bed vs straight drop down through the bed. This means that when you try to lift the lathe through a rib it will try to roll over on its side very quickly. What we did was run a loop down through the channel and shoved a two by four through the loop vs trying to wrap around and come back up through a second hole. You can only do this to one end, the other end absolutely must be picked up either slung around the bed or not recommended (but I had to do this) install a faceplate or chuck and then carefully sling around the D1-4 spindle end between the chuck and the head stock keeping very close to the headstock. This prevented tipping and actually reasonably balanced the load.

As others have already mentioned if you loop around under the bed you have to put blocking in place to prevent pinching the lead screw.


During the loading we had access to a forklift so that made things easier. What I did was install some 4x4's perpendicular to the length of the bed. These 4x4's were about 36-40" long. This widened out the base of the lathe tremendously. I ran two heavy duty tie down straps over the bed, one at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. Then drove an hour or so through Richmond VA down 64 towards Charlottesville and that puppy did not move one iota. The outriggers really stabilized things, the straps where mostly for show. I think I looped one or both through the bed top side on the front and exiting out on the angle at the back and tied down to the floor of the trailer. This gave good down pressure and going through the bed this way made sure that it couldn't move forward or back.

I did not remove the gear box on mine nor the saddle or the taper attachment. I did remove the faceplate I had temporarily installed and anything on the compound as well as the tail stock. As someone mentioned the more you take off the lighter it will be and the less likely that in the event of a catastrophic tip over you won't smash all the handles. Without standing at the lathe, I'm not sure you can take off the gear box, I think the casting or weldments for the headstock actually includes the gear box on this thing. I honestly don't recall seeing a line of separation but I'm at work and the lathe is at home and its still new to me so I could be wrong.

Getting it on the trailer was easy, getting it off was a slightly different story.

First in addition to the outriggers I had mounted castors on the 4x4's (harbor freight ones that I had handy). To prevent them from taking any weight during travel I had added a little piece 6" of additional 4x4 plus a 3/4" thick piece of oak under the 4x4's. This kept the castors just clear of the ground during transportation. My thought was I could roll this puppy off the trailer when I got home by just jacking up the lathe a hair with a floor jack, unscrewing the lag bolts holding these little end pieces kick them out and set the lathe down on the castors. The castors being 5" from the each end of the 4x4 would still give it plenty of outrigger support and I could use a come along to control speed coming off ramp. Well you rocket scientists can probably guess what I didn't guess. The rubber castors shredded into little chunks in the first 18" of movement. The lag screws I had holding the 4x4 outriggers then took the brunt of the force and started to pull out. So basically we basically just removed the outriggers at that point.

It was loaded on the trailer headstock toward front, tailstock toward end. The trailer had a built in ramp (wire mesh thing). We hooked the engine hoist (cherry picker) to the edge of the ramp and basically hooked the strap to the last hole in the bed of the lathe and started lifting. I pushed against the headstock and end and the lathe slid reasonably well until the tailstock end was dangling directly below the end of the hoist. Then we set the tailstock end on the ground and moved the cherry picker over to pick up the headstock end carefully by spindle nose. Just enough to lift it off the trailer and then drove the trailer out from under it. We set it down on the forward legs of the cherry picker and while still maintaining vertical pressure (no lift) on the lathe we used that as a dolly to push it into the garage and into approximate place. Then with two straps one on the spindle and one looped through the bed we carefully lifted it an inch or so off the legs of the cherry picker and pushed the base out to clear the end of the lathe and with 3 people pushing the lathe toward vertical and one carefully letting down the hydraulic pressure we set the lathe upright on the floor in front of the cherry picker.

There was a ton of improvising after plan A failed. I had two boys helping me (18 and 20 yrs old) on the movement into the garage. Getting it off the trailer was just my wife and one son. We took it slow and careful, took almost an hour to get it off the trailer. The scariest part was pushing it off the cherry picker legs. That took a lot of faith to swing it out and make sure the hydraulics didn't drop too fast.

--

Things I'd do different:

1) Lag bolts to hold the 4x4s on should have been 1/2" or bigger and at least 5" long. I had 1/2" by 2.5" thinking that was long enough. I mounted them using the holes for the leveling feet (remove the leveling feet - 1-1/16" wrench to turn them out) then big washer to keep from pulling through.
2) Caster idea okay, but would need to be steel castors not rubber.
3) Idea to roll down ramp was a farce, instead I would do the lift via the tailstock to pull it off the trailer and set it on the ground (still need one person or more by headstock to push it) would be really nice to have a steel plate under the lathe on not wood and or plywood as I had (wheels sink in).
4) I'd lift the headstock end and drive out the trailer again but if it was on castors I'd make sure that I spin the hoist to set it down on the ground and not the arms of the hoist.

If I had a decent ramp then my original idea of come alongs to control the offloading by rolling it down the ramp might have worked just fine.

I'd also make sure I had access to a toe jack. Be willing to lift the end of the lathe increments using blocking every inch or so of height under back and front of each end as its lifted by the jack. Keep pipe handy to roll it on, make sure it was decent diameter and at least 6" or more wider then the lathe itself. There are enough cross pieces of steel channel under each end - at least 2, that you can use pipe to carefully roll one end at a time to move it back toward a wall if needed after getting it roughly in place.

With a toe jack (my latest investment) and some 1.5" diameter pipe I can now move my lathe small increments by myself. For some reason my sons have been avoiding me for the last 3 weeks.

Keep in mind the leveling feet are two parts, a small pad that fits under them and then the leveler part. They are also supposed to have an anti vibration rubber piece under them as well.

you can unscrew them from the bottom but if you need to lag screw the lathe to outriggers then you have to remove the end plate at the bottom of the headstock and the big plate at the front of the lathe to access the back ones.

I would strongly advise you to remove that front plate and inspect the insulation. One mine there was sound insulation inside the base to decrease the noise from the Reeve's drive. That insulation had disintegrated and the rubber backing come loose and was hanging over the DC drive that operates the Reeve's drive. Some of the plastic cover had already been sucked into the gears during a test run. Those are fiber and/or plastic gears. You do not want the heavy rubber backing to get sucked into those gears or you can kiss them goodbye. In my case there was a very thin plastic sheet overtop of the insulation and it, not the 1/8" rubber backing that got sucked into the gears and it did no harm. Still had to pick it out. I removed all insulation and as much of the rubber backing as I could without removing the box that holds the electrical.

The panels are all held on with button head cap screws - so a battery operated drill driver is a good thing to have handy with a set of allen head bits. I think the screws are 5/32" heads which I didn't have but a 4mm matched almost perfectly so I used that on my Bosch driver to get through them quickly.

Wiring up took me a bit of time. There are several posts on practical machinist that suggested that since some of the circuits are 3phase and some single phase that it was not a good idea to use a rotary phase converter or a VFD to power the machine. The single phase gets pulled of IL1 and returns on IL3 input lines. Taking that into account I did the following:

Single phase to a 220v electric switch mounted on wall next to VFD. Took two single phase lines out of the switch using pigtails to connect to the switch. One line up to the VFD and the 3 phase line back into the lathe. The other single phase line into the lathe. The main junction box on my lathe was behind the big front cover and it had a terminal bar in it. It had labels for IL1-IL3 that connected the power in cord to the 3 wires that run up to the control panel on top of the headstock. I simply disconnected the input lines from those terminals, as well as the output lines that went to the control box. I left in place the other wires running into IL3 terminal that are the return lines for completing the circuits of the single phase stuff. I then took the two single phase power lines (black an white wires) connect them to terminals IL1 and IL3 (nothing should be on IL2). I ran a new wire up to the control box and connected it to IL1. I use 3 empty terminals in the terminal bar (which were actually labelled T1-T3 and connected the former IL1-IL3 lines that go to the control box as well as the 3 input from the 3 phase there.

When you open the control panel on the top, mine has the drum switch. The terminals were all neatly marked and the wires were also marked IL1-IL3 and 2L1, T1-T3 (4 wires out). 2L1 is the power back to panel underneath and T1-T3 are the lines to the motor. I simply disconnected IL1-IL3 and connected them directly to T1-T3. I then connected the new wire from the panel to IL1.

In this arrangement, the 3 phase power now comes into the panel at the bottom of the lathe and directly goes up to the control panel at the top of the headstock, bypass the switch and goes straight to the motor. Therefore the VFD is happy 3 power lines are in effect connected straight to the motor with no switches in between. The single phase circuit is happy because it is still switched at the drum switch using the terminals it always used.

However we need a way of controlling the VFD. On my drum switch there were two rows of terminals on either side. Leaving IL1 and 2L1 being the single phase circuit were the rear most set of terminals. I had to remove some crossover wires (bridges or whatever you want to call them), I think from the top row of terminals on the left side. Basically what I was trying to do was isolate the remaining terminals from the IL1/2L1 circuit and to create a condition where the DCM wire from the VFD could mount to the central terminal on the lower row of the left side and the FWD and REV could be mounted on the terminals on the right side of the switch. I believe there is a bridge on the bottom two on the left. Anyhow what you are shooting for is that when turned to the REVERSE the switch connects the DCM line to the REV line on the other side of the switch and when in FORWARD it connects DCM to FWD line and that IL1 and 2L1 are completely isolated. I then drilled a hole in the back of the top control panel and ran the VFD control lines back to the DCM, REV and FWD terminals on the VFD mounted on the wall behind the lathe.

This arrangement is critical - the VFD and the single phase circuits must be controlled by a single interrupter. The motor circuit must be wired directly to the VFD (I just tried to reuse the existing wiring mechanism with a few changes as listed above). Both the VFD and the single phase circuits must be connected to a single on off switch on the lathe if at all possible. This prevents one from attempting to alter the speed of the Reeves drive while the machine is not running.

The entire reason for isolating the single phase Reeves/Tach circuits from the VFD circuits was that several posts claimed that when wired into a VFD or Rotary phase converter the tach would not read correctly and or the Reeve's drive might not function properly. Having read that I chose to run the separate circuits that I did and it works perfectly for me. Also the separation of circuits is a requirement to prevent a switch for the Reeve's drive controls from being between the VFD and the Reeve's drive motor.

I finished wiring it last weekend and have used the lathe every day since. The nice part, with the 220v disconnect switch I can turn on/off the VFD at the start of each day with a single flip of the switch from a conveniently placed location. I tend to hide my VFD into a box to prevent or reduce dust getting into it (that is not the case currently for this lathe as I didn't have a box).

For oil:

I emailed Mobil for current oils to match the ones in the manual.

Headstock, Transmission and Gearbox they said to use Mobil DTE Light (still on the market - enco has a 5 gallon pail only which I bought). Mobil suggested using the same in the Apron.

Use the regular South Bend Type C oil (Mobil DTE Heavy Medium) for the rest basically.

I squirt way oil on the ways but I think they suggest just use Type C for the tailstock oilers and all the oilers on top of the saddle and the lead screw, cross slide screw and compound screws.

----

I gave the transmission an oil change last night. It drove me absolutely nuts so a couple of things to keep in mind:

On my lathe the drain plug for the transmission (lower end panel) is immediately above the motor. I had to cut a milk jug and form a funny flat drain pan to direct the oil into the container. It still made a mess. I think the plug is 1/4" pipe. I would strongly recommend buying a 2 or 3" long piece of pipe and a coupler that would accept the drain plug and make an extension out to where you can put a catch basin.

Filling the transmission with oil was actually worse then emptying it. Mine had an elbow coming out with a short vertical exhaust/air breather valve on it. I couldn't get a grip on the elbow to unscrew it but could unscrew the exhaust valve thing. The location was too high up to put a funnel, the elbow blocked the flow of the oil into the top of the transmission. Finally I went and found a thin drinking straw with those corrugated elbows on it. I carefully threaded that down into the elbow and using a small cheap trigger pump oil can I proceeded to fill the transmission one squirt at a time. There isn't much oil in the transmission - maybe a quart of oil. But it took me an hour and a half to do the oil change and created a huge mess. I don't have any suggestion there except to probably remove the actual elbow if you can get at it, replace it with a T with a fill plug on the end opposite of where it screws into the gear box and the little exhaust breather mechanism going out the top. Then you can take the fill plug out and fill the transmission directly. Again there is probably about a quart of oil in the transmission. It took 4 or 5 pump oil cans worth of oil and this was a small Ace hardware squirt oil can.

I haven't drained the headstock yet, the oil was clear in sight window. I did top it up to be half the sight window, fill plug is on the back side just below the front of the spindle. No idea yet were the drain plug is.

Apron only took a 1/4 of the amount of oil that the transmission took. Less then my cheap little pump oil can contained.

For what its worth that is my experience with the South Bend Fourteen since I purchased it 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Sorry for long post and probably a ton more information than you wanted.

Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman















Disclaimer

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the recipient(s). If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and might not represent those of the company. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.

Disclaimer

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the recipient(s). If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and might not represent those of the company. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.