heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1


Jasper McConnell
 

Since the FAQ section doesn't work, I'm inquiring as to the size of the thrust bearing in the heavy 10 to see if it is commercially available without me buying a used one. I'm anticipating my thrust bearing is malfunctioning.



Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

Contact Ted

 

Latheman2@...

He should have a NOS one.

 

Jim B. 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 7:49 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 

 

Since the FAQ section doesn't work, I'm inquiring as to the size of the thrust bearing in the heavy 10 to see if it is commercially available without me buying a used one. I'm anticipating my thrust bearing is malfunctioning.

 


sblatheman
 

Been to the well too often :-). I don't have any more.

Ted

On Apr 25, 2015, at 7:54 PM, 'Jim B. ' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Contact Ted

 

Latheman2@...

He should have a NOS one.

 

Jim B. 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 7:49 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 

 

Since the FAQ section doesn't work, I'm inquiring as to the size of the thrust bearing in the heavy 10 to see if it is commercially available without me buying a used one. I'm anticipating my thrust bearing is malfunctioning.

 


Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

The FAQ works fine for me. Even on my IPhone. 
Just go to the home page. Be sure you are logged in. Go to "Files". 
Under the folders, click on the 4th file down. 
If the links do not work, follow them manually in your browser. 
Sometimes Yahoo will not go to a file and you must go there manually. Yahoo wants you to read the ads. 

Jim B,

On Apr 25, 2015, at 7:48 PM, hotrodjap@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Since the FAQ section doesn't work, I'm inquiring as to the size of the thrust bearing in the heavy 10 to see if it is commercially available without me buying a used one. I'm anticipating my thrust bearing is malfunctioning.



Jasper McConnell
 

OK . This link works which goes to the FAQ index
C:\Users\oduser\AppData\Local\Temp\_SouthBendLatheFAQ.html



When I click on the following item on the list
Rear Spindle Roller Thrust Bearing

I get the following link

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EFU8T-oG3OVipS2NbmSLAkedVOKL3uhC7_1j-B5LI2RHLeknPCNIg76c9eMaGXCSIu3d56iE7bzW-wN6HkZX/SouthBendLatheFAQ.html

Which says" Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage ".

Help on that ????


Austin Lange
 

On Apr 25, 2015, at 8:53 PM, hotrodjap@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

OK . This link works which goes to the FAQ index
C:\Users\oduser\AppData\Local\Temp\_SouthBendLatheFAQ.html



When I click on the following item on the list
Rear Spindle Roller Thrust Bearing

I get the following link

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EFU8T-oG3OVipS2NbmSLAkedVOKL3uhC7_1j-B5LI2RHLeknPCNIg76c9eMaGXCSIu3d56iE7bzW-wN6HkZX/SouthBendLatheFAQ.html

Which says" Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage ".

Help on that ????


Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

That should have taken you to this:

 

Rear Spindle Roller Thrust Bearing

Please see message number 9223 for a write up in the meantime.

 

That is an internal link in the FAQ, I will need to sort that one out.

 

In case you do not know haw to get to message 9223, here is a copy

 

9223Hi! New to list. Roller bearing SB Model A experiment.

Expand Messages

  • Jon Rolfe

Feb 10, 2003

Hi.
I posted this to rec.crafs.metalworking, and I think it will interest some
of you here.
I have a SB Model A that spent its life in an R&D department. I absolutely
love the machine, and it works hard for me. It had a 51st Birthday last
December, according to the factory.
Here is the post:

I use my old South Bend Model A in production, making an 8" disk that
must be plane parallel to .002 or better, and require a good cosmetic
finish. It is made from a proprietary alloy whose chips are ribbony
at low speeds and flaky dust at high speeds. My best results are
running at the highest speed the lathe has. This clears the chips from
the tool so they do not smear and cold-weld to the finish. (It is a
tin alloy).
I use a specially made vacuum chuck that I have posted on the newsgroup
in the
past. ( http://www.gearloose.com/vc.html )
At the highest speeds, the bearings get hot, even when slacked,
principally the bearing at the left side of the spindle, away from the
chuck end.
A friend found an old Model A head sitting in a junkpile, and since it
is a dull cold Winter, I did some playing. The spindle and bearings
on the old head were scored badly, so it was a no-loss experiment.
I made a long boring bar, and put the head on the South Bend ways. Of
course there was no question about being on center! I made a long
boring bar out of a 1" stainless rod and supported the far end with a
live center in the tailstock.
There was not sufficient metal in the casting to allow me to do what I
really wanted to do, bore it for opposed tapered roller bearings, so I
settled for needle bearings. I turned the spindle so needle roller
inner sleeves could be pressed onto it, and bored the housing for
press fits. I used a radial needle thrust bearing at the outboard
side, where the original phenolic thrust bearing and washer was
mounted. The reverse tumbler needed a tiny bit of relieving to give
me the extra .080.
Set it up, and it ran fast and cool, but unfortunately there was too
much of a harmonic vibration in the needle bearings to give me a good
finish! Kind of a failure, but it only cost $50, and I learned a lot.
When I put the original head back on, I did use the needle roller
thrust bearing outboard, opposing and preloading the ball thrust bearing
inboard that is the South Bend original...and THIS made a huge improvement!!!
The bearings now run cool at the highest speed!!! Apparantly all the
friction was from the plain phenolic thrust bearing that was original!
Actual measured speed with a strobe is 1440 RPM.
I just made 36 pieces, and the headstock bearings never got more than
20oF above room temperature, and it paid me this huge dividend: I now
have zero chatter, a perfect surface finish you can see the reflection
of the tailstock in(!) and flatness center-to-edge of better than
0.001 !!!
BTW, I am using RNL carbide inserts, which I diamond lap before use.
You other South Bend Mod A owners might consider this! I got the
roller thrust bearing at McMaster: The bearing and washer set only
cost few bucks..Get one for a 1-3/8" shaft. When installing instead
of setting the thrust bearing to the usual 0.001, set it for 2-5.
tenths.
I finally got rid of the bands caused by the in-and-out 0.001
excursions of the spindle!
It has been a good experience..I got a good chance to study the wicks
and shaft and bearing conditions of the original head. Fifty years
old, and the journals look like mirrors except for one place where
someone let the spindle bite the felt spring. (bah.)
Have to say the people who first made the Model A sure knew what they
were doing...Except for that phenolic thrust bearing.
I have photos of the experiment as it went along, the boring, etc., if
anyone is interested I will put them up on my page.
...
The original bearings are nothing more than SB's

>'superfinished' steel running directly in the
>cast iron headstock casting. Be sure you understand
>how to set the clearance with a dial gage on the
>spindle, and another suggestion would be to consider
>switching teh spindle oil to synthetic.
>

The bearings run cool now, even when snugged against the shims...I
guess all the heat was coming from the thrust bearing. I used the
recommended method of a broomstick and a dial indicator.
Still amazed at what good condition the bearings and journals are in.
If someone told me that a hardened and ground shaft running in cast
iron would last fifty years I would have laughed at them..Until I did
a search and read about journal bearings. If they are properly
designed and maintained, the only thing that seems to wear out is the
oil. Amazing.
OH! If anyone wants to try the needle thrust bearings from McMaster,
they are Stock# 5909 K 39 ($2.73) for the bearing assembly, and 5909
K 53 (2 required) for the .031 hardened and ground washers.($1.08
each..haha)
The existing lubrication ports in the spindle, that lubed the stock
phenolic washer outboard trust bearing feeds oil to the needle bearing
perfectly.

 

 

 

Jim B. 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 9:53 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 

 

OK . This link works which goes to the FAQ index
C:\Users\oduser\AppData\Local\Temp\_SouthBendLatheFAQ.html



When I click on the following item on the list
Rear Spindle Roller Thrust Bearing

I get the following link

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EFU8T-oG3OVipS2NbmSLAkedVOKL3uhC7_1j-B5LI2RHLeknPCNIg76c9eMaGXCSIu3d56iE7bzW-wN6HkZX/SouthBendLatheFAQ.html

Which says" Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage ".

Help on that ????


armne@...
 

   Mcmaster-Carr


Jasper McConnell
 

Thanks Jim. That is a good writeup.
Would still like to get the dimensions of the PT207R1 before I get home to take down my machine. Would give me a little head start on getting one ordered if it is  a "standard"  size since Ted 's  supply has been depleted.
Jasper

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jim B. ' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE
Sent: Sat, Apr 25, 2015 10:19 pm
Subject: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 
That should have taken you to this:
 

Rear Spindle Roller Thrust Bearing

Please see message number 9223 for a write up in the meantime.
 
That is an internal link in the FAQ, I will need to sort that one out.
 
In case you do not know haw to get to message 9223, here is a copy
 

9223Hi! New to list. Roller bearing SB Model A experiment.

Expand Messages
  • Jon Rolfe
Feb 10, 2003
Hi.
I posted this to rec.crafs.metalworking, and I think it will interest some
of you here.
I have a SB Model A that spent its life in an R&D department. I absolutely
love the machine, and it works hard for me. It had a 51st Birthday last
December, according to the factory.
Here is the post:

I use my old South Bend Model A in production, making an 8" disk that
must be plane parallel to .002 or better, and require a good cosmetic
finish. It is made from a proprietary alloy whose chips are ribbony
at low speeds and flaky dust at high speeds. My best results are
running at the highest speed the lathe has. This clears the chips from
the tool so they do not smear and cold-weld to the finish. (It is a
tin alloy).
I use a specially made vacuum chuck that I have posted on the newsgroup
in the
past. ( http://www.gearloose.com/vc.html )
At the highest speeds, the bearings get hot, even when slacked,
principally the bearing at the left side of the spindle, away from the
chuck end.
A friend found an old Model A head sitting in a junkpile, and since it
is a dull cold Winter, I did some playing. The spindle and bearings
on the old head were scored badly, so it was a no-loss experiment.
I made a long boring bar, and put the head on the South Bend ways. Of
course there was no question about being on center! I made a long
boring bar out of a 1" stainless rod and supported the far end with a
live center in the tailstock.
There was not sufficient metal in the casting to allow me to do what I
really wanted to do, bore it for opposed tapered roller bearings, so I
settled for needle bearings. I turned the spindle so needle roller
inner sleeves could be pressed onto it, and bored the housing for
press fits. I used a radial needle thrust bearing at the outboard
side, where the original phenolic thrust bearing and washer was
mounted. The reverse tumbler needed a tiny bit of relieving to give
me the extra .080.
Set it up, and it ran fast and cool, but unfortunately there was too
much of a harmonic vibration in the needle bearings to give me a good
finish! Kind of a failure, but it only cost $50, and I learned a lot.
When I put the original head back on, I did use the needle roller
thrust bearing outboard, opposing and preloading the ball thrust bearing
inboard that is the South Bend original...and THIS made a huge improvement!!!
The bearings now run cool at the highest speed!!! Apparantly all the
friction was from the plain phenolic thrust bearing that was original!
Actual measured speed with a strobe is 1440 RPM.
I just made 36 pieces, and the headstock bearings never got more than
20oF above room temperature, and it paid me this huge dividend: I now
have zero chatter, a perfect surface finish you can see the reflection
of the tailstock in(!) and flatness center-to-edge of better than
0.001 !!!
BTW, I am using RNL carbide inserts, which I diamond lap before use.
You other South Bend Mod A owners might consider this! I got the
roller thrust bearing at McMaster: The bearing and washer set only
cost few bucks..Get one for a 1-3/8" shaft. When installing instead
of setting the thrust bearing to the usual 0.001, set it for 2-5.
tenths.
I finally got rid of the bands caused by the in-and-out 0.001
excursions of the spindle!
It has been a good experience..I got a good chance to study the wicks
and shaft and bearing conditions of the original head. Fifty years
old, and the journals look like mirrors except for one place where
someone let the spindle bite the felt spring. (bah.)
Have to say the people who first made the Model A sure knew what they
were doing...Except for that phenolic thrust bearing.
I have photos of the experiment as it went along, the boring, etc., if
anyone is interested I will put them up on my page.
...
The original bearings are nothing more than SB's

>'superfinished' steel running directly in the
>cast iron headstock casting. Be sure you understand
>how to set the clearance with a dial gage on the
>spindle, and another suggestion would be to consider
>switching teh spindle oil to synthetic.
>

The bearings run cool now, even when snugged against the shims...I
guess all the heat was coming from the thrust bearing. I used the
recommended method of a broomstick and a dial indicator.
Still amazed at what good condition the bearings and journals are in.
If someone told me that a hardened and ground shaft running in cast
iron would last fifty years I would have laughed at them..Until I did
a search and read about journal bearings. If they are properly
designed and maintained, the only thing that seems to wear out is the
oil. Amazing.
OH! If anyone wants to try the needle thrust bearings from McMaster,
they are Stock# 5909 K 39 ($2.73) for the bearing assembly, and 5909
K 53 (2 required) for the .031 hardened and ground washers.($1.08
each..haha)
The existing lubrication ports in the spindle, that lubed the stock
phenolic washer outboard trust bearing feeds oil to the needle bearing
perfectly.
 
 
 
Jim B. 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 9:53 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1
 
 
OK . This link works which goes to the FAQ index
C:\Users\oduser\AppData\Local\Temp\_SouthBendLatheFAQ.html

When I click on the following item on the list
Rear Spindle Roller Thrust Bearing

I get the following link

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EFU8T-oG3OVipS2NbmSLAkedVOKL3uhC7_1j-B5LI2RHLeknPCNIg76c9eMaGXCSIu3d56iE7bzW-wN6HkZX/SouthBendLatheFAQ.html

Which says" Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage ".

Help on that ????


Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

As Requested.

This is an old very noisy bearing from my Heavy 10

 

Jim B. 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 3:24 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 

 

Thanks Jim. That is a good writeup.
Would still like to get the dimensions of the PT207R1 before I get home to take down my machine. Would give me a little head start on getting one ordered if it is  a "standard"  size since Ted 's  supply has been depleted.
Jasper

 


ken campbell
 

minor detail :  jim shows a BALL thrust bearing , not a ROLLER thrust bearing .
 
fwiw, a straight needle roller thrust bearing would demand that the roller have a higher surface speed at the greater radial diameter ... fun to think about ..
 
 

 


Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

BUT ..... The rollers are slightly tapered to account for this. 

Jim B,

On Apr 26, 2015, at 4:33 PM, 'Ken Campbell' deltainc@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

minor detail :  jim shows a BALL thrust bearing , not a ROLLER thrust bearing .
 
fwiw, a straight needle roller thrust bearing would demand that the roller have a higher surface speed at the greater radial diameter ... fun to think about ..
 
 

 


Flash Gordon
 


Hello all,

Major detail:  All SB lathes have a thrust bearing inside the head stock. On all except one model these are ball bearings in races.

Actually there can be  two bearings on the spindle, one near the middle, a ball bearing cage and two races which is the actual thrust bearing ( that is what Jim pictured). The 2nd is on the left end of the spindle and is called the take up bearing. This is used to take up left to right play in the spindle. ( it is not a thrust bearing)  SBL put a piece of felt or steel washer there, called the take-up washer which may be pinned to the head stock.. Many owners have converted this to a roller bearing or radial needle bearings to reduce friction. The purpose of this washer  is to take up slack in the spindle and preload the ball bearing thrust washer. Many have mistakenly called this washer a thrust bearing. In some SB literature this is also called a thrust washer but I believe that is a miss-print because you do not want to put any cutting thrust on a felt washer.

 This modification can raise almost as much discussion as grease vs. oil and not my intent to start it again. But it is a modification that I have made because it seems to make sense to me.

Since you are about to ask which lathe does not have a ball bearing thrust bearing  I will expose  the said lathe as a model 405 which has a solid steel thrust bearing. This was done as an economy move by SB during the depression era.  I own one and have tried to replace it with a ball bearing but the head stock is to short by a few mill and you cannot fit the ball bearing model to the 405.

 As far as I know the ball bearing thrust bearing was only available from SBL. There is a list in the file section that shows compatible parts. I do not know if that bearing has a match. They are available used on eBay.

The roller bearing used for the take up is available from McMaster Carr. You need the roller bearing cage  and two hardened washers.

 Drawings attached.


I am back….

Ed S



At 04:33 PM 4/26/2015, you wrote:


minor detail :  jim shows a BALL thrust bearing , not a ROLLER thrust bearing .
 
fwiw, a straight needle roller thrust bearing would demand that the roller have a higher surface speed at the greater radial diameter ... fun to think about ..
 
 

 



Jasper McConnell
 

After I started all this ruckus, I was away for a couple of weeks before returning to my lathe situation. In the meantime I bought a spare used thrust bearing to get it coming in case mine was kaput.
Today I took down the spindle on my 10L and found some good news and some bad news I suppose. The thrust bearing still has life but has a balls are  0.184 and I suspect they were originally 0.1875. Guess I'
ll just have a spare used thrust bearing when it gets here.
The bad news is what I see as possible galling in the front large bearing, There is definitely roughness which can be felt by fingernail and what appears to be some transfer from the bearing to shaft. The shaft looks better than the bearing by sight. Mine is the pre WW2 version with cast housing for bearing surface with no bronze involved.
   The felt wick was coal black from the wear particles and was pretty dirty. I doubt I have 100 hours on it since I went thru it and cleaned all the bearings and replaced the felt wipers. I oil it every time I work .How do I get the front gits oil cup off the lathe without destroying it ??
    By the way I did wonder if the balls in the bearings were worn, would it be possible to replace them with new balls from ENCO as long as thee races seemed smooth.
 Do I have any better options than putting it back together as is after cleaning the bearing surfaces and reservoirs, then checking the tightness of the bearings, shim if necessary more or less. I checked the shims on the front housing and they were 0.024 on one side and 0.031 on the opposite. Should they be more equal ? I have read the FAQ on this but it just addresses shim removal for wear..
I now suspect that my headstock binding was where the shaft was moving ever so slightly and the high and low spots on the shaft/bearing surfaces were galling.


Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

Here are some thoughts.

The balls in a bearing are usually (factory) matched to be the same size within millionths of an inch.

If the balls are bad/worn the races will also be bad/worn.

 

I would can the bearing.

 

Just MHO

 

Yes the shims on either side should be more equal, to within one or two thousands.

 

There is a conversion, in the files section, that adds a roller thrust bearing on the back side of the rear journal.  You do need to pull off the rearmost spindle gear, but you are almost there.

Its not expensive.

 

Jim B. 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 5:49 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 

 

After I started all this ruckus, I was away for a couple of weeks before returning to my lathe situation. In the meantime I bought a spare used thrust bearing to get it coming in case mine was kaput.
Today I took down the spindle on my 10L and found some good news and some bad news I suppose. The thrust bearing still has life but has a balls are  0.184 and I suspect they were originally 0.1875. Guess I'
ll just have a spare used thrust bearing when it gets here.
The bad news is what I see as possible galling in the front large bearing, There is definitely roughness which can be felt by fingernail and what appears to be some transfer from the bearing to shaft. The shaft looks better than the bearing by sight. Mine is the pre WW2 version with cast housing for bearing surface with no bronze involved.
   The felt wick was coal black from the wear particles and was pretty dirty. I doubt I have 100 hours on it since I went thru it and cleaned all the bearings and replaced the felt wipers. I oil it every time I work .How do I get the front gits oil cup off the lathe without destroying it ??
    By the way I did wonder if the balls in the bearings were worn, would it be possible to replace them with new balls from ENCO as long as thee races seemed smooth.
 Do I have any better options than putting it back together as is after cleaning the bearing surfaces and reservoirs, then checking the tightness of the bearings, shim if necessary more or less. I checked the shims on the front housing and they were 0.024 on one side and 0.031 on the opposite. Should they be more equal ? I have read the FAQ on this but it just addresses shim removal for wear..
I now suspect that my headstock binding was where the shaft was moving ever so slightly and the high and low spots on the shaft/bearing surfaces were galling.


Jasper McConnell
 

I have read the article about replacing the thrust bearing on a Model A lathe which has a smaller spindle than the 10L. That's where the problem starts. I have searched all the usual suppliers for a 1 7/8 x 2 1/2 thrust bearing to replace the ones on my lathe. They offer needle roller 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 5909K42 or 2 x 2 3/4 5909K43 .Can't get closer in metric either. Both are very thin ( 0.078 plus 2 each .126 washers plus 3 each .032 washers=.426 ) in comparison to the approx .435 thickness of the regular bearing.. McMaster sells a roller thrust bearing exactly the right thickness but stops at 1 1/2 inch ID x 2 1/8 OD. That gets me as far as I got.
Replacing the takeup washer with the needle bearing will require turning the takeup nut down more parallel than I think my lathe ( now out of commission ) would do and the same size dilemma exists for it.

Jasper

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jim B. ' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE Sent: Wed, May 6, 2015 5:35 pm
Subject: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 
Here are some thoughts.
The balls in a bearing are usually (factory) matched to be the same size within millionths of an inch.
If the balls are bad/worn the races will also be bad/worn.
 
I would can the bearing.
 
Just MHO
 
Yes the shims on either side should be more equal, to within one or two thousands.
 
There is a conversion, in the files section, that adds a roller thrust bearing on the back side of the rear journal.  You do need to pull off the rearmost spindle gear, but you are almost there.
Its not expensive.
 
Jim B. 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 5:49 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1
 
 
After I started all this ruckus, I was away for a couple of weeks before returning to my lathe situation. In the meantime I bought a spare used thrust bearing to get it coming in case mine was kaput.
Today I took down the spindle on my 10L and found some good news and some bad news I suppose. The thrust bearing still has life but has a balls are  0.184 and I suspect they were originally 0.1875. Guess I'
ll just have a spare used thrust bearing when it gets here.
The bad news is what I see as possible galling in the front large bearing, There is definitely roughness which can be felt by fingernail and what appears to be some transfer from the bearing to shaft. The shaft looks better than the bearing by sight. Mine is the pre WW2 version with cast housing for bearing surface with no bronze involved.
   The felt wick was coal black from the wear particles and was pretty dirty. I doubt I have 100 hours on it since I went thru it and cleaned all the bearings and replaced the felt wipers. I oil it every time I work .How do I get the front gits oil cup off the lathe without destroying it ??
    By the way I did wonder if the balls in the bearings were worn, would it be possible to replace them with new balls from ENCO as long as thee races seemed smooth.
 Do I have any better options than putting it back together as is after cleaning the bearing surfaces and reservoirs, then checking the tightness of the bearings, shim if necessary more or less. I checked the shims on the front housing and they were 0.024 on one side and 0.031 on the opposite. Should they be more equal ? I have read the FAQ on this but it just addresses shim removal for wear..
I now suspect that my headstock binding was where the shaft was moving ever so slightly and the high and low spots on the shaft/bearing surfaces were galling.


Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

There is a conversion for the Heavy 10. The bearing has a slightly larger ID and requires turning a bushing. I thought it was on this site but perhaps it's on the southbendheavy10 site. 
I will look and get back. I can't get to the files section on the iPhone. 

Jim B,

On May 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, hotrodjap@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

I have read the article about replacing the thrust bearing on a Model A lathe which has a smaller spindle than the 10L. That's where the problem starts. I have searched all the usual suppliers for a 1 7/8 x 2 1/2 thrust bearing to replace the ones on my lathe. They offer needle roller 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 5909K42 or 2 x 2 3/4 5909K43 .Can't get closer in metric either. Both are very thin ( 0.078 plus 2 each .126 washers plus 3 each .032 washers=.426 ) in comparison to the approx .435 thickness of the regular bearing.. McMaster sells a roller thrust bearing exactly the right thickness but stops at 1 1/2 inch ID x 2 1/8 OD. That gets me as far as I got.
Replacing the takeup washer with the needle bearing will require turning the takeup nut down more parallel than I think my lathe ( now out of commission ) would do and the same size dilemma exists for it.

Jasper



Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

On May 6, 2015, at 10:21 PM, 'Jim B. ' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

There is a conversion for the Heavy 10. The bearing has a slightly larger ID and requires turning a bushing. I thought it was on this site but perhaps it's on the southbendheavy10 site. 
I will look and get back. I can't get to the files section on the iPhone. 

Jim B,

On May 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, hotrodjap@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

I have read the article about replacing the thrust bearing on a Model A lathe which has a smaller spindle than the 10L. That's where the problem starts. I have searched all the usual suppliers for a 1 7/8 x 2 1/2 thrust bearing to replace the ones on my lathe. They offer needle roller 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 5909K42 or 2 x 2 3/4 5909K43 .Can't get closer in metric either. Both are very thin ( 0.078 plus 2 each .126 washers plus 3 each .032 washers=.426 ) in comparison to the approx .435 thickness of the regular bearing.. McMaster sells a roller thrust bearing exactly the right thickness but stops at 1 1/2 inch ID x 2 1/8 OD. That gets me as far as I got.
Replacing the takeup washer with the needle bearing will require turning the takeup nut down more parallel than I think my lathe ( now out of commission ) would do and the same size dilemma exists for it.

Jasper



Jasper McConnell
 

Thanks Jim,
I had forgotten about that discussion on the fiber washer and I had read it before. My lathe uses a metal washer on the takeup nut side but it applies equally well as replacing it will alollow a thrust bearing on both sides of the small bearing cap to take the end play both directions on the spindle. It would seem to take the harmonics out of the spindle which occasionally shows in the finish on a part.
 My frustration of sorts is that ball thrust bearings go away at the threshold size of what would replace the OEM bearing. The radial needle bearing require more than two washers to even come close to the setpoint of the spindle location to OEM specs. I'll play with the numbers a bit more and even look at metric washers to see if I can come up with something that will work. I don't have a surface grinder to help with that. Maybe I can turn the groove side of the original bearings toward each other and sandwich the needle thrust bearing where the old ball and race were.
Jasper


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jim B. ' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] To: SOUTHBENDLATHE
Sent: Wed, May 6, 2015 9:32 pm
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: heavy 10 thrust bearing PT2O7R1

 
Go to the FILES section. It's in the main folder. 


On May 6, 2015, at 10:21 PM, 'Jim B. ' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] < SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

< div>  
There is a conversion for the Heavy 10. The bearing has a slightly larger ID and requires turning a bushing. I thought it was on this site but perhaps it's on the southbendheavy10 site. 
I will look and get back. I can't get to the files section on the iPhone. 

Jim B,

On May 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, hotrodjap@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] < SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 
I have read the article about replacing the thrust bearing on a Model A lathe which has a smaller spindle than the 10L. That's where the problem starts. I have searched all the usual suppliers for a 1 7/8 x 2 1/2 thrust bearing to replace the ones on my lathe. They offer needle roller 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 5909K42 or 2 x 2 3/4 5909K43 .Can't get closer in metric either. Both are very thin ( 0.078 plus 2 each .126 washers plus 3 each .032 washers=.426 ) in comparison to the approx .435 thickness of the regular bearing.. McMaster sells a roller thrust bearing exactly the right thickness but stops at 1 1/2 inch ID x 2 1/8 OD. That gets me as far as I got.
Replacing the takeup washer with the needle bearing will require turning the takeup nut down more parallel than I think my lathe ( now out of commission ) would do and the same size dilemma exists for it.

Jasper



Gregg Eshelman
 

On 5/7/2015 9:10 AM, hotrodjap@aol.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

The radial needle
bearing require more than two washers to even come close to the setpoint
of the spindle location to OEM specs.
You have a lathe so make spacer rings of the thickness you need to fill up the space after the pair of hardened washers and radial bearing are in place.