Broken quick change gearbox


Bemac502000
 

Hi I accidentally ran my carriage into my tail stock on my 9" south bend model A I heard gears braking and now the gear box is frozen I can't even move the tumblers. Is there a source for the gears( not sure which ones I need yet still disassembling it) or would it be best to just buy a quick change gear box on eBay . I need advise as to my best options thanks in advance. Bill M.


soupy1951ca
 

I would finish tearing it down first to see how bad it really is. If it is real bad I'd buy the gearbox since you never know how much hidden damage was really done to things​. It may be cheaper as a unit too. Just my view.
 
Mike from Canada

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:08 PM, bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

Hi I accidentally ran my carriage into my tail stock on my 9" south bend model A I heard gears braking and now the gear box is frozen I can't even move the tumblers. Is there a source for the gears( not sure which ones I need yet still disassembling it) or would it be best to just buy a quick change gear box on eBay . I need advise as to my best options thanks in advance. Bill M.




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sblatheman
 

Reverse the spindle by hand until the gears free up. Then check for damage.
I have some new gears for the gearbox if you need them.

Ted

On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:08 PM, "bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hi I accidentally ran my carriage into my tail stock on my 9" south bend model A I heard gears braking and now the gear box is frozen I can't even move the tumblers. Is there a source for the gears( not sure which ones I need yet still disassembling it) or would it be best to just buy a quick change gear box on eBay . I need advise as to my best options thanks in advance. Bill M.


Bemac502000
 

Thanks Ted and Mike I will get back to you Ted when I get it apart.
Bill M.


On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:27 PM, "Latheman latheman2@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Reverse the spindle by hand until the gears free up. Then check for damage.
I have some new gears for the gearbox if you need them.

Ted

On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:08 PM, "bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hi I accidentally ran my carriage into my tail stock on my 9" south bend model A I heard gears braking and now the gear box is frozen I can't even move the tumblers. Is there a source for the gears( not sure which ones I need yet still disassembling it) or would it be best to just buy a quick change gear box on eBay . I need advise as to my best options thanks in advance. Bill M.


Bemac502000
 

The gear box is now freed up thanks Ted worked perfect any tips on removing the three slotted screws holding the gearbox to the ways I couldn't budge them. How does the lead screw come out of the gearbox or do you remove the whole thing?
Bill


On Sep 11, 2014, at 4:22 PM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Ted and Mike I will get back to you Ted when I get it apart.
Bill M.


On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:27 PM, "Latheman latheman2@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Reverse the spindle by hand until the gears free up. Then check for damage.
I have some new gears for the gearbox if you need them.

Ted

On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:08 PM, "bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hi I accidentally ran my carriage into my tail stock on my 9" south bend model A I heard gears braking and now the gear box is frozen I can't even move the tumblers. Is there a source for the gears( not sure which ones I need yet still disassembling it) or would it be best to just buy a quick change gear box on eBay . I need advise as to my best options thanks in advance. Bill M.


d6crawler
 

I used an electric impact hammer and gently backed the screws out with a good fitting bit. You can also use the spring loaded kind that you hit with a hammer but I think the electric one is better and does less damage.

As I recall the lead screw stays attached until you remove it from the box.

Good luck,
Daniel




On Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:22 PM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:

 
The gear box is now freed up thanks Ted worked perfect any tips on removing the three slotted screws holding the gearbox to the ways I couldn't budge them. How does the lead screw come out of the gearbox or do you remove the whole thing?
Bill



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Bemac502000
 

Thank you Daniel I finally got the gearbox off no apparent damage but the left tumbler seems a bit tight when I engage the right tumbler and manually turn the lead screw it turns good but the right tumbler rotates a bit ( it isn't engaged) I did try engaging it in the feed it crashed at goes in hard and seems to turn hard also. I'm thinking the needle bearings in the tumbler maybe? Can't really be sure no damage either because cant see all the teeth on all the gears.
Bill M.


On Sep 11, 2014, at 7:22 PM, "d6crawler d6crawler@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

I used an electric impact hammer and gently backed the screws out with a good fitting bit. You can also use the spring loaded kind that you hit with a hammer but I think the electric one is better and does less damage.

As I recall the lead screw stays attached until you remove it from the box.

Good luck,
Daniel




On Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:22 PM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 
The gear box is now freed up thanks Ted worked perfect any tips on removing the three slotted screws holding the gearbox to the ways I couldn't budge them. How does the lead screw come out of the gearbox or do you remove the whole thing?
Bill




.




oscar kern <kernbigo@...>
 

Try squirting some  (kroil penetrating oil) in the needle bearing


On Friday, September 12, 2014 11:53 AM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 
Thank you Daniel I finally got the gearbox off no apparent damage but the left tumbler seems a bit tight when I engage the right tumbler and manually turn the lead screw it turns good but the right tumbler rotates a bit ( it isn't engaged) I did try engaging it in the feed it crashed at goes in hard and seems to turn hard also. I'm thinking the needle bearings in the tumbler maybe? Can't really be sure no damage either because cant see all the teeth on all the gears.
Bill M.


On Sep 11, 2014, at 7:22 PM, "d6crawler d6crawler@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 
I used an electric impact hammer and gently backed the screws out with a good fitting bit. You can also use the spring loaded kind that you hit with a hammer but I think the electric one is better and does less damage.

As I recall the lead screw stays attached until you remove it from the box.

Good luck,
Daniel




On Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:22 PM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 
The gear box is now freed up thanks Ted worked perfect any tips on removing the three slotted screws holding the gearbox to the ways I couldn't budge them. How does the lead screw come out of the gearbox or do you remove the whole thing?
Bill




.






Bemac502000
 

From what I can see no damage to the right side of the gearbox gears nothing looks broken seems to be something wrong with the left tumbler or the head stock side gears in the gear box when left tumbler engaged turns hard not sure that's how it should be or not sprayed Kroil all over all gears can't get the internal gears on the head stock side to spin so I can inspect them just the side that the lead screw engages spins good the other half of gears on the same shaft must turn independent of them?
Bill M.


On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:27 PM, "Latheman latheman2@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Reverse the spindle by hand until the gears free up. Then check for damage.
I have some new gears for the gearbox if you need them.

Ted

On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:08 PM, "bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hi I accidentally ran my carriage into my tail stock on my 9" south bend model A I heard gears braking and now the gear box is frozen I can't even move the tumblers. Is there a source for the gears( not sure which ones I need yet still disassembling it) or would it be best to just buy a quick change gear box on eBay . I need advise as to my best options thanks in advance. Bill M.


lance
 

Did you open up the oil hole in the casting to make sure oil is flowing
to the internals?

Just ‘cause there is felt in the hole, 
doesn’t mean it isn’t petrified or broken.

lance
++++

On Sep 12, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Thank you Daniel I finally got the gearbox off no apparent damage but the left tumbler seems a bit tight when I engage the right tumbler and manually turn the lead screw it turns good but the right tumbler rotates a bit ( it isn't engaged) I did try engaging it in the feed it crashed at goes in hard and seems to turn hard also. I'm thinking the needle bearings in the tumbler maybe? Can't really be sure no damage either because cant see all the teeth on all the gears.
Bill M.


Bemac502000
 

Lance I didn't see an oil hole but I did oil everything in there and used Kroil to gonna see if the kroil frees it up some really don't want to take it all apart hearing the taper pin nightmares on here. But if I need to I need to.
Bill


On Sep 12, 2014, at 3:41 PM, "Lance Eggleston gbof@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Did you open up the oil hole in the casting to make sure oil is flowing

to the internals?

Just ‘cause there is felt in the hole, 
doesn’t mean it isn’t petrified or broken.

lance
++++
On Sep 12, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Thank you Daniel I finally got the gearbox off no apparent damage but the left tumbler seems a bit tight when I engage the right tumbler and manually turn the lead screw it turns good but the right tumbler rotates a bit ( it isn't engaged) I did try engaging it in the feed it crashed at goes in hard and seems to turn hard also. I'm thinking the needle bearings in the tumbler maybe? Can't really be sure no damage either because cant see all the teeth on all the gears.
Bill M.


lance
 

It’s a QCGB, right, with an oil fill cap on the top?

The oil in there goes into a gallery, which feeds oil holes within the cast iron.
Those go to the bushings, shaft ends, so that things can slide and rotate as needed.
Oiling the inside won’t do it.
Try the Kroil in the small space around the shaft ends from the outside.
While you are at it, Kroil the taper pins too, just in case you need to take it apart.

It’s not hard to take apart, 
leave the gear cones in place to make it easier, tho there are
felts and wicks in there as well.

lance
++++

On Sep 12, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Lance I didn't see an oil hole but I did oil everything in there and used Kroil to gonna see if the kroil frees it up some really don't want to take it all apart hearing the taper pin nightmares on here. But if I need to I need to.
Bill


soupy1951ca
 

​If I were you at this point I'd buy the rebuild kit with the felts and just tear the thing down and clean it, inspect it, replace what needs replacing and put it back together and make chips. Taking it apart is far from rocket science and at this point for you would be a good idea. My opinion of course.
 
Mike from Canada

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Lance I didn't see an oil hole but I did oil everything in there and used Kroil to gonna see if the kroil frees it up some really don't want to take it all apart hearing the taper pin nightmares on here. But if I need to I need to.

Bill


 
 


d6crawler
 

I agree with Mike - I took mine apart and it was not a bit deal. There was also a lot of varnish inside from the thing sitting for a long time. Worst case you can tear it apart, decide it is toast, and sell or stockpile the parts.

Daniel


oscar kern <kernbigo@...>
 

never herd of scraping in the bearings ?


On Saturday, September 13, 2014 2:13 PM, "d6crawler d6crawler@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 
I agree with Mike - I took mine apart and it was not a bit deal. There was also a lot of varnish inside from the thing sitting for a long time. Worst case you can tear it apart, decide it is toast, and sell or stockpile the parts.

Daniel



James Rice
 

That's what I did when I bought my lathe with a crashed gear box.  I tore it down, found the broken gear, ordered the gear from Ted and a felt set on eBay, lubed all the cleaned parts and reassembled it.  It was really, really tight after reassembly so I tore it back down, polished some score marks off the shafts, reassembled it with more lube and kept working it by turning the input shaft with a wrench until I found a chip pounded into the valley between two gear teeth.  After cleaning the chip out, the gear box works smoothly in all positions and I've been running the lathe daily for a couple of weeks.

I figured worst case, I was out a few dollars for felts and $65 for a gear. As it turned out, it was a fairly simple fix.  I'd tear it down and see what is broken/bent.   The gearbox is already broken, you probably won't break it any worse.

James

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:51  PM, Soupy51 soupy51@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

​If I were you at this point I'd buy the rebuild kit with the felts and just tear the thing down and clean it, inspect it, replace what needs replacing and put it back together and make chips. Taking it apart is far from rocket science and at this point for you would be a good idea. My opinion of course.
 
Mike from Canada


Gregg Eshelman
 

On 9/13/2014 2:38 PM, James Rice james.rice@gmail.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

I figured worst case, I was out a few dollars for felts and $65 for a
gear. As it turned out, it was a fairly simple fix. I'd tear it down
and see what is broken/bent. The gearbox is already broken, you
probably won't break it any worse.
Yup. If it's broken, not working, and it turns out to not be repairable by any means, you can't make it *not work* by trying to fix it.

I took apart a malfunctioning toaster oven and ran all the parts except the quartz tube heating elements through my dishwasher. Put it back together and it works like new. 'Course this is one from the 1970's with no fancy electronics or LCD/LED display. I figured a nice hot bath couldn't make it work any worse than it already wasn't.

Oh, on the South Bend gearbox, there's a tapered pin down by where the leadscrew enters the casting. Drive that pin UP from the bottom. I've seen these where people tried driving the pin down and they broke the corner off the casting.


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Bemac502000
 

Hi thanks to all who have posted to help me. Well I took your advise and started to remove all the gears from the gearbox I am having trouble getting the pin out that holds the tumbler shaft with tumblers still on it. I can see what looks like the big end of the pin(even though the rebuild manual says its a straight pin) the only other thing I can see is a smaller hole that doesn't line up with the center of the shaft? Is that right does that pin not go thru the center of the shaft? The shaft does spin so I guess that's right unless the pin is broken? For the smaller hole to be the other end of the pin the pin would only sit in a groove at that end of the shaft is that the way it is?
Bill M.


On Sep 13, 2014, at 4:38 PM, "James Rice james.rice@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

That's what I did when I bought my lathe with a crashed gear box.  I tore it down, found the broken gear, ordered the gear from Ted and a felt set on eBay, lubed all the cleaned parts and reassembled it.  It was really, really tight after reassembly so I tore it back down, polished some score marks off the shafts, reassembled it with more lube and kept working it by turning the input shaft with a wrench until I found a chip pounded into the valley between two gear teeth.  After cleaning the chip out, the gear box works smoothly in all positions and I've been running the lathe daily for a couple of weeks.

I figured worst case, I was out a few dollars for felts and $65 for a gear. As it turned out, it was a fairly simple fix.  I'd tear it down and see what is broken/bent.   The gearbox is already broken, you probably won't break it any worse.

James

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:51  PM, Soupy51 soupy51@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

​If I were you at this point I'd buy the rebuild kit with the felts and just tear the thing down and clean it, inspect it, replace what needs replacing and put it back together and make chips. Taking it apart is far from rocket science and at this point for you would be a good idea. My opinion of course.
 
Mike from Canada


Bemac502000
 

I forgot to add that the only gear I found damaged so far is the 80 tooth idler gear but I think when I get the tumblers off I will find something wrong with one of them.
Bill M.


On Sep 15, 2014, at 4:08 PM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hi thanks to all who have posted to help me. Well I took your advise and started to remove all the gears from the gearbox I am having trouble getting the pin out that holds the tumbler shaft with tumblers still on it. I can see what looks like the big end of the pin(even though the rebuild manual says its a straight pin) the only other thing I can see is a smaller hole that doesn't line up with the center of the shaft? Is that right does that pin not go thru the center of the shaft? The shaft does spin so I guess that's right unless the pin is broken? For the smaller hole to be the other end of the pin the pin would only sit in a groove at that end of the shaft is that the way it is?
Bill M.


On Sep 13, 2014, at 4:38 PM, "James Rice james.rice@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

That's what I did when I bought my lathe with a crashed gear box.  I tore it down, found the broken gear, ordered the gear from Ted and a felt set on eBay, lubed all the cleaned parts and reassembled it.  It was really, really tight after reassembly so I tore it back down, polished some score marks off the shafts, reassembled it with more lube and kept working it by turning the input shaft with a wrench until I found a chip pounded into the valley between two gear teeth.  After cleaning the chip out, the gear box works smoothly in all positions and I've been running the lathe daily for a couple of weeks.

I figured worst case, I was out a few dollars for felts and $65 for a gear. As it turned out, it was a fairly simple fix.  I'd tear it down and see what is broken/bent.   The gearbox is already broken, you probably won't break it any worse.

James

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:51  PM, Soupy51 soupy51@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

​If I were you at this point I'd buy the rebuild kit with the felts and just tear the thing down and clean it, inspect it, replace what needs replacing and put it back together and make chips. Taking it apart is far from rocket science and at this point for you would be a good idea. My opinion of course.
 
Mike from Canada


Eddie kee
 

when I restored my 9A, there was a pin that I think you could have beat on forever.   I was afraid to use to much force force for fear of damaging the housing. I used a drill bit smaller then the small taper and drilled through on the drill press.  I was able to then tap it out with a punch.  Pins are available at msc, grainger, and even Amazon.



On Sep 15, 2014, at 4:12 PM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

I forgot to add that the only gear I found damaged so far is the 80 tooth idler gear but I think when I get the tumblers off I will find something wrong with one of them.
Bill M.


On Sep 15, 2014, at 4:08 PM, "Bemac502000 bemac502000@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hi thanks to all who have posted to help me. Well I took your advise and started to remove all the gears from the gearbox I am having trouble getting the pin out that holds the tumbler shaft with tumblers still on it. I can see what looks like the big end of the pin(even though the rebuild manual says its a straight pin) the only other thing I can see is a smaller hole that doesn't line up with the center of the shaft? Is that right does that pin not go thru the center of the shaft? The shaft does spin so I guess that's right unless the pin is broken? For the smaller hole to be the other end of the pin the pin would only sit in a groove at that end of the shaft is that the way it is?
Bill M.


On Sep 13, 2014, at 4:38 PM, "James Rice james.rice@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

That's what I did when I bought my lathe with a crashed gear box.  I tore it down, found the broken gear, ordered the gear from Ted and a felt set on eBay, lubed all the cleaned parts and reassembled it.  It was really, really tight after reassembly so I tore it back down, polished some score marks off the shafts, reassembled it with more lube and kept working it by turning the input shaft with a wrench until I found a chip pounded into the valley between two gear teeth.  After cleaning the chip out, the gear box works smoothly in all positions and I've been running the lathe daily for a couple of weeks.

I figured worst case, I was out a few dollars for felts and $65 for a gear. As it turned out, it was a fairly simple fix.  I'd tear it down and see what is broken/bent.   The gearbox is already broken, you probably won't break it any worse.

James

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:51  PM, Soupy51 soupy51@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

​If I were you at this point I'd buy the rebuild kit with the felts and just tear the thing down and clean it, inspect it, replace what needs replacing and put it back together and make chips. Taking it apart is far from rocket science and at this point for you would be a good idea. My opinion of course.
 
Mike from Canada