quick change gearbox problem?


Hugh <hughmcc@earthlink.net> <hughmcc@...>
 

Hello
I just purchased a South Bend lathe on eBay. This is my first
lathe..in fact I have never even touched a lathe (but I have stayed
in a Holiday Inn.
I purchased the South Bend "How to Run a Lathe" book to try to
understand what was going on with the lathe(I thought it was pretty
poor for a newbie).
At the ripe old age of 59 I may have gotten scammed but not sure. My
problem is with the gearbox: is it broken or am I doing something
wrong.
I have the following machine;
10"(L) toolroom (8187RN), underneath belt motor drive with a 4.5' bed.
Serial Number = 134118 (has a metal plate that said it complied with
War Producton requirements!). It is mounted on a sheet metal bench
with curved tubular legs (see page 102 in the SB book for a shorter
version of the bench/lathe).
At this point I have not turned it on because I want to first
understand what all those levers and wheels do (the fact that the
power cord had been removed by the seller reinforced that decision).
So I started doing a little cleaning and oiling. I explored the
carriage and how it worked. I took off the cover for the gears and
turned the spindle by hand to learn about the mechanism (shift lever,
etc.) Then I got to looking at the lead screw and noticed that no
matter how I engaged the "Top Lever" and the bottom lever on the
gearbox, the lead screw never moved. I would think that it would
turn as I rotate the spindle by hand since the feed reverse level is
engaged (and with the gear cover off I do see that the gear
delivering power to the gear box input shaft is turning).
The gearbox's top lever moves just a few degrees in either
direction. I can hardly tell the difference between left, center,
and right. I also used a mirror and flashlight to try look from the
bottom to tell what was happening but couldn't tell much. Peering in
from left end of the gearbox I can see the input shaft turning inside
the box and if I turn the lead screw by hand I can see a gear on the
end of it turning (just slightly above the input shaft's "gear
teeth"). The bottom gear change lever moves very stiffly. I wanted
to look inside the gearbox but removing the gearbox looks like a
major task (I don't have a lot of specialized tools or skills but if
you know how to do it and it doesn't take exotic(for the household
handy man) tools please tell me)
Basically the lead screw is getting no power.
What could I be doing wrong?
If it is broken,is there a reasonable fix?
I would appreciate your input (soon if possible since I may need to
have a heart to heart conversation with the seller ).
Hugh


Clint D <driggars@...>
 

Hugh
If all the parts appear to be there, then there may just be a sheared key?
If all the drive gears from the spindle to gear box are there, I am not sure
what the gearing is on the 10L. The gear box should come off easily
enough if need be. There may be others to chime in on other methods than
what I mention for the 10L
You will need to remove the leadscrew bearing on your right and there should
be three screws coming from the top way down through the gear box. This is
done after removing the saddle and carriage.
Keep in mind before doing all this, check out all your options first.
Depending what gear it is in, the leadscrew is not going to turn as fast as
the input gear, so doing it by hand, you may not be seeing the little amount
it is turning. I would try this, go ahead and wire the motor in and start
it up. Then see what is happening with the motor and headstock, and then
engage the forward/reversing lever and see what is happening from the gear
box.
If you cab not get power out then a keyway may be sheared or even missing.
Lets just hope that the teeth on a gear is not sheared. I do not think there
is a lot of harm could happen by starting up the machine
Let us know what happens
Clint

----- Original Message -----
From: <hughmcc@earthlink.net>
To: <southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 2:57 AM
Subject: [southbendlathe] quick change gearbox problem?


Hello
I just purchased a South Bend lathe on eBay. This is my first
lathe..in fact I have never even touched a lathe (but I have stayed
in a Holiday Inn.
I purchased the South Bend "How to Run a Lathe" book to try to
understand what was going on with the lathe(I thought it was pretty
poor for a newbie).
At the ripe old age of 59 I may have gotten scammed but not sure. My
problem is with the gearbox: is it broken or am I doing something
wrong.
I have the following machine;
10"(L) toolroom (8187RN), underneath belt motor drive with a 4.5' bed.
Serial Number = 134118 (has a metal plate that said it complied with
War Producton requirements!). It is mounted on a sheet metal bench
with curved tubular legs (see page 102 in the SB book for a shorter
version of the bench/lathe).
At this point I have not turned it on because I want to first
understand what all those levers and wheels do (the fact that the
power cord had been removed by the seller reinforced that decision).
So I started doing a little cleaning and oiling. I explored the
carriage and how it worked. I took off the cover for the gears and
turned the spindle by hand to learn about the mechanism (shift lever,
etc.) Then I got to looking at the lead screw and noticed that no
matter how I engaged the "Top Lever" and the bottom lever on the
gearbox, the lead screw never moved. I would think that it would
turn as I rotate the spindle by hand since the feed reverse level is
engaged (and with the gear cover off I do see that the gear
delivering power to the gear box input shaft is turning).
The gearbox's top lever moves just a few degrees in either
direction. I can hardly tell the difference between left, center,
and right. I also used a mirror and flashlight to try look from the
bottom to tell what was happening but couldn't tell much. Peering in
from left end of the gearbox I can see the input shaft turning inside
the box and if I turn the lead screw by hand I can see a gear on the
end of it turning (just slightly above the input shaft's "gear
teeth"). The bottom gear change lever moves very stiffly. I wanted
to look inside the gearbox but removing the gearbox looks like a
major task (I don't have a lot of specialized tools or skills but if
you know how to do it and it doesn't take exotic(for the household
handy man) tools please tell me)
Basically the lead screw is getting no power.
What could I be doing wrong?
If it is broken,is there a reasonable fix?
I would appreciate your input (soon if possible since I may need to
have a heart to heart conversation with the seller ).
Hugh


--
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Hugh <hughmcc@earthlink.net> <hughmcc@...>
 

Hello Clint and Thanks for the quick response! I am going to make
comments below within the body of your response to bring you up to
date. I'll mark those with "@@@@" and insert ">"'s in your text when
my text inserts bump a line of your text to a new line.
GOTO Clint's response
RETURN TO THIS POINT when finished reading through my comments
embedded within your text.
Which levers can be moved while the motor is under power? I adjusted
everything and then turned on the motor which I am sure is a strain
on the motor, the gearing,and it dims the lights!
I purchased this lathe to pursue my hobby interest in robotics (which
will be of a large, autonomous, not r/c type)and I will also need
(well..maybe I should say "want") to purchase a mill (perhaps a
drill/mill? ENCO?). I jumped on the South Bend because I had heard
they were so much better than the imports like say the Birmingham. On
the other hand, a live plow mule beats a dead racehorse everytime.
The fact that getting power to my garage will cost several $1,000
(long story) made the 110 volt motor on this eBay item appealing.
Would appreciate any thoughts on repair parts/ availability.

Again, thanks you very much for your help to this point!
Hugh
League City, Texas (near Houston)
--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Clint D" <driggars@e...>
wrote:
Hugh
If all the parts appear to be there, then there may just be a
sheared key?
@@@@ where do I get the key (stock?) ? Is that some that has to be
custom made for this machine or is it easily obtained as surplus or
new item?
If all the drive gears from the spindle to gear box are there, I am
not sure
what the gearing is on the 10L.
@@@@ Yes I believe the gears are all there. When turning the spindle
by hand I had the forward-neutral-reverse lever engaged and all gears
turned including the "slip gear" and the final gear that turns a
shaft that goes inside the gearbox.
The gear box should come off easily
enough if need be.
@@@@ I hope!
There may be others to chime in on other methods than
what I mention for the 10L
You will need to remove the leadscrew bearing on your right and
there should
be three screws coming from the top way down through the gear box.
@@@@yes..I saw those and considered attacking them but wasn't sure
what I would have to do with the lead screw where it enters the right
side of the gearbox and how to handle the input shaft/gear assembly
that enters from the left.
This is
done after removing the saddle and carriage.
@@@@ it seems like I saw an article or email somewhere that discussed
removing the saddle and carriage. Do you have any thoughts on this?
(Reminder: I always have parts left over when I take apart a
clock..the mechanical type clocks for the younger than 35)
Keep in mind before doing all this, check out all your options
first.
Depending what gear it is in, the leadscrew is not going to turn as
fast as
the input gear, so doing it by hand, you may not be seeing the
little amount
it is turning. I would try this, go ahead and wire the motor in
and start
it up. Then see what is happening with the motor and headstock, and
then
engage the forward/reversing lever and see what is happening from
the gear
box.
@@@@ I had the same thought that perhaps the gearing ratio was such
that I was not seeing any motion in the lead screw. So I bit the
bullet and wired in a replacement cord.(Side Note: No "white"
or "black" wires and certainly no "green" one. I did use a 3 wire
cord and attached the green wire to a screw in a terminal box that
apparently had been added some time in recent (the last 40 years!)
history. As a precaution I didn't touch the machine while plugged in
and had all levers in position when I started it up and stood on
plastic!. I'll take a few voltage reading between the machine and
ground to ensure safety)
If you cab not get power out then a keyway may be sheared or even
missing.
Lets just hope that the teeth on a gear is not sheared.
@@@@ Thats what was worrying me. As I peeped into the left side of
the gearbox the gear teeth machined into the shaft of the input shaft
(I am sure there is a descriptive name for a shaft constructed like
this)were very close but did not touch a gear wheel that would turn
when I manually turned the lead screw. Upon reflection and further
restricted "peeping" I am thinking those maybe were not meant to mesh
so I don't know at this time if teeth are sheared.
@@@@ Are there replacement parts available for the gearbox..assuming
I get that removed?
I do not think there
is a lot of harm could happen by starting up the machine
Let us know what happens
@@@@no smoke or bolts of lighting..just dimmed the lights briefly.
@@@@Can ANY levers be shifted while under power? Once powered up I
didn't adjust levers such as the "forward/neutral/reverse" lever,
the "backgear" lever, the big lever that puts tension on the flat
driving belt, the top and bottom gearbox levers, or anything on the
carriage/apron. The carriage lock down bolt is loose so I can
manually feed the carriage and I can manually turn the lead screw.
RETURN TO HUGH'S response above
Clint

----- Original Message -----
From: <hughmcc@e...>
To: <southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 2:57 AM
Subject: [southbendlathe] quick change gearbox problem?


Hello
I just purchased a South Bend lathe on eBay. This is my first
lathe..in fact I have never even touched a lathe (but I have
stayed
in a Holiday Inn.
I purchased the South Bend "How to Run a Lathe" book to try to
understand what was going on with the lathe(I thought it was
pretty
poor for a newbie).
At the ripe old age of 59 I may have gotten scammed but not sure.
My
problem is with the gearbox: is it broken or am I doing something
wrong.
I have the following machine;
10"(L) toolroom (8187RN), underneath belt motor drive with a 4.5'
bed.
Serial Number = 134118 (has a metal plate that said it complied
with
War Producton requirements!). It is mounted on a sheet metal
bench
with curved tubular legs (see page 102 in the SB book for a
shorter
version of the bench/lathe).
At this point I have not turned it on because I want to first
understand what all those levers and wheels do (the fact that the
power cord had been removed by the seller reinforced that
decision).
So I started doing a little cleaning and oiling. I explored the
carriage and how it worked. I took off the cover for the gears
and
turned the spindle by hand to learn about the mechanism (shift
lever,
etc.) Then I got to looking at the lead screw and noticed that no
matter how I engaged the "Top Lever" and the bottom lever on the
gearbox, the lead screw never moved. I would think that it would
turn as I rotate the spindle by hand since the feed reverse level
is
engaged (and with the gear cover off I do see that the gear
delivering power to the gear box input shaft is turning).
The gearbox's top lever moves just a few degrees in either
direction. I can hardly tell the difference between left, center,
and right. I also used a mirror and flashlight to try look from
the
bottom to tell what was happening but couldn't tell much. Peering
in
from left end of the gearbox I can see the input shaft turning
inside
the box and if I turn the lead screw by hand I can see a gear on
the
end of it turning (just slightly above the input shaft's "gear
teeth"). The bottom gear change lever moves very stiffly. I
wanted
to look inside the gearbox but removing the gearbox looks like a
major task (I don't have a lot of specialized tools or skills but
if
you know how to do it and it doesn't take exotic(for the household
handy man) tools please tell me)
Basically the lead screw is getting no power.
What could I be doing wrong?
If it is broken,is there a reasonable fix?
I would appreciate your input (soon if possible since I may need
to
have a heart to heart conversation with the seller ).
Hugh


--
Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/
More pix: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/
Newbie guide: http://smaa.techwood.net/SBL/Newbie.pdf
FAQ: TBD
Post: southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com
Email Moderators: southbendlathe-owner@yahoogroups.com
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Stan Stocker <skstocker@...>
 

Hi Hugh;

I'll try to explain the way these critters work so you can figure out if it's an adjustment, missing part, misunderstanding of how it works, or something bad (hopefully not the case!) I also have the top arm style gearbox on my '29 13 incher. There may be some differences between our gearboxes but they will be minor.

Just to be sure, you are sliding the 8 position swinging arm lever to some point where the slot in the plate screwed to bottom edge of the gearbox lines up with the boss on the gear change arm, and raising the lever up and engaging the plunger pin in the hole? Please don't be insulted by this, it's just that you mention this is your first lathe.

On these top lever gear boxes, you can see the ends of the shafts from the carriage side. This lets you get some ideas without laying under things playing with mirrors and flashlights.

Check first: The shaft directly below the leadscrew is the opposite end of the input shaft. It should be turning whenever the reverse tumbler is engaged (either direction, just not in the center. If it isn't, either the input shaft is sheared or the input gear is loose/off the shaft/ the banjo is swung out of mesh, the gear train for some reason (gear left off is common, tumbler not engaged) isn't providing input to the gearbox.

The lower of the two shafts towards the front is driven by the gear on the 8 speed selector lever, and has the 8 gear cluster. The lever must be UP and the plunger in a hole for this shaft to spin. If it doesn't turn, try another setting. It is possible for one gear to be missing a few teeth. It this shaft doesn't spin in any position, look for a missing gear on the swing arm itself. The input shaft is splined its entire length, the swing hrm has a gear that spins whenever the input shaft turns. Swinging the arm up meshes this gear with one of the eight gears on the speed selector shaft.

Assuming this shaft turns, the upper of the two shaft torwards the front is the 3 speed shaft. With the 9 position selector lever in any of the holes, it should turn whenever the input is turning. You can see the relative speed with respect to the input shaft change easily as you move the top lever from right to center to left.

If this shaft is turning and the leadscrew doesn't rotate, check the end of the leadscrew inside the gearbox. The leadscrew is driven by a gear that mounts on teh end of the leadscrew and meshes with a gear on the end of the three speed shaft. If the nut comes off the end of the leadscrew, this gear can get loose. The leadscrew is still secured by the leadscrew support at the tailstock end of the lathe, so all looks good. It is a fairly large nut, with a collar. Was the lathe shipped with the leadscrew removed? You may have missed mounting this part.

Note that with the 8 position swing arm down, you can turn the leadscrew by hand and all but the input shaft will rotate if all is well. Just make sure the halfnuts are disengaged before doing this, it can be alarming when things move when you aren't expecting them too. With the reverse tumbler in the center position and the swing arm in the leftmost hole (or any hole, this just is the one with the least mechanical disadvantage) you can run the entire geartrain up to the tumbler by turning the leadscrew. You can even turn the spindle this way in you engage the tumbler, provided the drive belt is loose or you have a really strong grip :-)

Hopefully this will help you sort it out, it's the sort of thing that a person familiar with the lathe could tell what is wrong is just a minute or two if they were in front of the lathe, but over email takes a bunch of words!

Cheers,
Stan


Hugh wrote:
Hello
I just purchased a South Bend lathe on eBay. This is my first lathe..in fact I have never even touched a lathe (but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn.
<snipped>
The gearbox's top lever moves just a few degrees in either direction. I can hardly tell the difference between left, center, and right. I also used a mirror and flashlight to try look from the bottom to tell what was happening but couldn't tell much. Peering in from left end of the gearbox I can see the input shaft turning inside the box and if I turn the lead screw by hand I can see a gear on the end of it turning (just slightly above the input shaft's "gear teeth"). The bottom gear change lever moves very stiffly. I wanted to look inside the gearbox but removing the gearbox looks like a major task (I don't have a lot of specialized tools or skills but if you know how to do it and it doesn't take exotic(for the household handy man) tools please tell me)
Basically the lead screw is getting no power. What could I be doing wrong?
If it is broken,is there a reasonable fix?
I would appreciate your input (soon if possible since I may need to have a heart to heart conversation with the seller ).
Hugh


Clint D <driggars@...>
 

Hugh
I could not tell from your post whether or not the motor worked?
If it does, put the gearbox in any gear, then engage the belt tension
lever, then put in reverse or forward and get back with what Happened with
the lead screw. There was another response to your mail, once you have all
engaged then perform the visual inspection as suggested in the email

You can get parts for your lathe on ebay once you figure out what you need,
if any needed?
Even if there is a little something wrong with your lathe, you will find
that you will not be sorry for getting the South Bend, as long as it is not
wore smooth out. Even if you need to fix a few things, you will not be
sorry, and look at it on a positive note! fixing anything on it will just
make you more familiar with it's operation, etc. It will also allow you to
check out the other parts for wear and do any cleaning, adjusting and
lubricating
Since you are going to be doing hobby work, the Homier Mini Lathe has been a
good machine for me
http://www.homier.com also http://www.littlemachineshop.com has info
for them and comparisons for the other mini mills. Homier has the best
pricing between the sellers of the mini mills. They also give excellent
service
I have a picture of my mini mill on my web site, do not laugh at my web
building, that is my weak link!!!
I have been spending several months building the site and will eventually
get around to finishing. Some of the pages are not completed, but enough
work to give you a look at some of the things I do
here is the link http://www.clints101.com
We wait for your getting back
Clint


Chris Mead
 

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh <hughmcc@e...>"
<hughmcc@e...> wrote:
Hello
I just purchased a South Bend lathe on eBay. This is my first
lathe..in fact I have never even touched a lathe (but I have stayed
in a Holiday Inn.
I purchased the South Bend "How to Run a Lathe" book to try to
understand what was going on with the lathe(I thought it was pretty
poor for a newbie).
At the ripe old age of 59 I may have gotten scammed but not sure.
My
problem is with the gearbox: is it broken or am I doing something
wrong.
I have the following machine;
10"(L) toolroom (8187RN), underneath belt motor drive with a 4.5'
bed.
Serial Number = 134118 (has a metal plate that said it complied
with
War Producton requirements!). It is mounted on a sheet metal bench
with curved tubular legs (see page 102 in the SB book for a shorter
version of the bench/lathe).
At this point I have not turned it on because I want to first
understand what all those levers and wheels do (the fact that the
power cord had been removed by the seller reinforced that
decision).
So I started doing a little cleaning and oiling. I explored the
carriage and how it worked. I took off the cover for the gears and
turned the spindle by hand to learn about the mechanism (shift
lever,
etc.) Then I got to looking at the lead screw and noticed that no
matter how I engaged the "Top Lever" and the bottom lever on the
gearbox, the lead screw never moved. I would think that it would
turn as I rotate the spindle by hand since the feed reverse level
is
engaged (and with the gear cover off I do see that the gear
delivering power to the gear box input shaft is turning).
The gearbox's top lever moves just a few degrees in either
direction. I can hardly tell the difference between left, center,
and right. I also used a mirror and flashlight to try look from
the
bottom to tell what was happening but couldn't tell much. Peering
in
from left end of the gearbox I can see the input shaft turning
inside
the box and if I turn the lead screw by hand I can see a gear on
the
end of it turning (just slightly above the input shaft's "gear
teeth"). The bottom gear change lever moves very stiffly. I wanted
to look inside the gearbox but removing the gearbox looks like a
major task (I don't have a lot of specialized tools or skills but
if
you know how to do it and it doesn't take exotic(for the household
handy man) tools please tell me)
Basically the lead screw is getting no power.
What could I be doing wrong?
If it is broken,is there a reasonable fix?
I would appreciate your input (soon if possible since I may need
to
have a heart to heart conversation with the seller ).
Hugh
Hugh, Maybe I can give you an idea of how your box works. The input
gear on the outside turns the mainshaft. Your bottom lever, or
tumbler lever, has a gear that is turned by the mainshaft. The
tumbler lever gear will engage a cone gear on the cone shaft, by
sliding the tumbler lever back and forth, and engaging a lock hole on
the front of the gear box. The cone shaft then turns the clutch shaft
through a sliding clutch and clutch gears. The top lever will move a
sliding clutch on the clutch shaft, right, center or left. The
sliding clutch has a gear and is keyed to the shaft, and will turn
the clutch shaft. The left or right position will lock the sliding
clutch to a gear that is engaged with the cone shaft, but is free
spining on the clutch shaft. That will turn the clutch shaft. In the
center position, the sliding clutch will engage a cone gear and then
turn the clutch shaft. The clutch shaft then has a gear that engages
the gear on the leadscrew. I have found that I have to turn the
leadscrew to get the top lever to engage the gears in the left or
right position. It has to be lined up just right to engage. There are
three keys that, one may be sheared. The input gear to the main
shaft, the output gear to the leadscrew on the clutch shaft, or the
leadscrew gear on the leadscrew. I think all the keys would be
standard key stock. Sorry its longwinded - hope it helps.


Hugh <hughmcc@earthlink.net> <hughmcc@...>
 

Thanks for your interest and input along with the other folks here.
After a carefull engineering analysis combined with a review of a
study of dynamic motion I flooded the gearbox with WD-40 and it
started working! I sprayed it in every hole/opening in the gearbox
that I could find..I guess I did some good but hope I did no harm!
The carriage and cross feed both move when the shift lever on the
carriage is in the proper positon for each.

I hooked up the motor which worked.
Question: I guess this is basic but there were only 2 wire ends (no
plug)from the motor (they were accessable at an external wiring box
from a conduit added sometime in the past. The conduit leads into a
box into which plugs a weird plug from the motor.) I assume I have
been safe in adding a 3 wire power cord with the green wire attached
to the wiring box (the round box is firmly attached to the metal
bench that supports the lathe..I don't know if the bench qualifies as
a place to attach the neutral green)
I agree with the benefit of trying to figure out what is going on
with the machine..I really got into it and think I figured out a lot
of what is going on...sort of.

Your site is looking good. I am going to build a small foundry (per
Gingery..I may have the speeling wrong) but need to use bottled gas
due to being in one of those neighborhoods with small yards.
Is there a metal casting yahoo group?

Mini-mills: I may look at that. I have been looking at an Enco Mill
Drill which are on sale till end of this month. Do you know anyhting
about them? I was thinking it would also give me a drill press.

Lubrication: Message number 91 has a list of lubes purchased. I was
thinking about duplicating this since Home Depot doesn't really have
anything other than 3-in-1 and WD-40!

Gear/lever shifting: I never change anything on the "left end" when
the motor is running (back gear shift, slide gear, gearbox,
rev/neutral/forward, and flat drive belt). Does that sound right?

Half nut on carriage: that lever seems to only move a few degrees
(when carriage/cross-feed shift is in neutral). Is that correct?
How do I know if it works?

thanks again for all the help!


--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Clint D" <driggars@e...>
wrote:
Hugh
I could not tell from your post whether or not the motor worked?
If it does, put the gearbox in any gear, then engage the belt
tension
lever, then put in reverse or forward and get back with what
Happened with
the lead screw. There was another response to your mail, once you
have all
engaged then perform the visual inspection as suggested in the email

You can get parts for your lathe on ebay once you figure out what
you need,
if any needed?
Even if there is a little something wrong with your lathe, you will
find
that you will not be sorry for getting the South Bend, as long as
it is not
wore smooth out. Even if you need to fix a few things, you will
not be
sorry, and look at it on a positive note! fixing anything on it
will just
make you more familiar with it's operation, etc. It will also allow
you to
check out the other parts for wear and do any cleaning, adjusting
and
lubricating
Since you are going to be doing hobby work, the Homier Mini Lathe
has been a
good machine for me
http://www.homier.com also http://www.littlemachineshop.com
has info
for them and comparisons for the other mini mills. Homier has the
best
pricing between the sellers of the mini mills. They also give
excellent
service
I have a picture of my mini mill on my web site, do not laugh at
my web
building, that is my weak link!!!
I have been spending several months building the site and will
eventually
get around to finishing. Some of the pages are not completed, but
enough
work to give you a look at some of the things I do
here is the link http://www.clints101.com
We wait for your getting back
Clint


Hugh <hughmcc@earthlink.net> <hughmcc@...>
 

Thanks very much for your input. I want to someday take the gearbox
apart and visually inspect it now that I have your description of how
it works. As a follow up..I flooded every opening with WD-40 and it
seemed to free things up becasue it is now getting power to the lead
screw. I think it may have loosened up something on that clutch in
the gearbox that you discussed.
Thanks again
Hugh
League City, TX near Houston
--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "cdm8187an <cdm337257@h...>"
<cdm337257@h...> wrote:
--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh <hughmcc@e...>"
<hughmcc@e...> wrote:
Hello
I just purchased a South Bend lathe on eBay. This is my first
lathe..in fact I have never even touched a lathe (but I have
stayed
in a Holiday Inn.
I purchased the South Bend "How to Run a Lathe" book to try to
understand what was going on with the lathe(I thought it was
pretty
poor for a newbie).
At the ripe old age of 59 I may have gotten scammed but not sure.
My
problem is with the gearbox: is it broken or am I doing something
wrong.
I have the following machine;
10"(L) toolroom (8187RN), underneath belt motor drive with a 4.5'
bed.
Serial Number = 134118 (has a metal plate that said it complied
with
War Producton requirements!). It is mounted on a sheet metal
bench
with curved tubular legs (see page 102 in the SB book for a
shorter
version of the bench/lathe).
At this point I have not turned it on because I want to first
understand what all those levers and wheels do (the fact that the
power cord had been removed by the seller reinforced that
decision).
So I started doing a little cleaning and oiling. I explored the
carriage and how it worked. I took off the cover for the gears
and
turned the spindle by hand to learn about the mechanism (shift
lever,
etc.) Then I got to looking at the lead screw and noticed that
no
matter how I engaged the "Top Lever" and the bottom lever on the
gearbox, the lead screw never moved. I would think that it would
turn as I rotate the spindle by hand since the feed reverse level
is
engaged (and with the gear cover off I do see that the gear
delivering power to the gear box input shaft is turning).
The gearbox's top lever moves just a few degrees in either
direction. I can hardly tell the difference between left,
center,
and right. I also used a mirror and flashlight to try look from
the
bottom to tell what was happening but couldn't tell much. Peering
in
from left end of the gearbox I can see the input shaft turning
inside
the box and if I turn the lead screw by hand I can see a gear on
the
end of it turning (just slightly above the input shaft's "gear
teeth"). The bottom gear change lever moves very stiffly. I
wanted
to look inside the gearbox but removing the gearbox looks like a
major task (I don't have a lot of specialized tools or skills but
if
you know how to do it and it doesn't take exotic(for the
household
handy man) tools please tell me)
Basically the lead screw is getting no power.
What could I be doing wrong?
If it is broken,is there a reasonable fix?
I would appreciate your input (soon if possible since I may need
to
have a heart to heart conversation with the seller ).
Hugh
=======================
Hugh, Maybe I can give you an idea of how your box works. The input
gear on the outside turns the mainshaft. Your bottom lever, or
tumbler lever, has a gear that is turned by the mainshaft. The
tumbler lever gear will engage a cone gear on the cone shaft, by
sliding the tumbler lever back and forth, and engaging a lock hole
on
the front of the gear box. The cone shaft then turns the clutch
shaft
through a sliding clutch and clutch gears. The top lever will move
a
sliding clutch on the clutch shaft, right, center or left. The
sliding clutch has a gear and is keyed to the shaft, and will turn
the clutch shaft. The left or right position will lock the sliding
clutch to a gear that is engaged with the cone shaft, but is free
spining on the clutch shaft. That will turn the clutch shaft. In
the
center position, the sliding clutch will engage a cone gear and
then
turn the clutch shaft. The clutch shaft then has a gear that
engages
the gear on the leadscrew. I have found that I have to turn the
leadscrew to get the top lever to engage the gears in the left or
right position. It has to be lined up just right to engage. There
are
three keys that, one may be sheared. The input gear to the main
shaft, the output gear to the leadscrew on the clutch shaft, or the
leadscrew gear on the leadscrew. I think all the keys would be
standard key stock. Sorry its longwinded - hope it helps.


JohnW <John.Walker@atcopower.ca> <John.Walker@...>
 

Hugh
For metal casting try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/messages
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/messages

John

Your site is looking good. I am going to build a small foundry
(per
Gingery..I may have the speeling wrong) but need to use bottled gas
due to being in one of those neighborhoods with small yards.
Is there a metal casting yahoo group?


Brian Sherwood <lurch@theramp.net> <lurch@...>
 

two more--
groups.yahoo.com/group/metalcasters
and
groups.yahoo.com/group/metalcasting

lurch

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "JohnW <John.Walker@a...>"
<John.Walker@a...> wrote:
Hugh
For metal casting try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/messages
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/messages

John

Your site is looking good. I am going to build a small foundry
(per
Gingery..I may have the speeling wrong) but need to use bottled gas
due to being in one of those neighborhoods with small yards.
Is there a metal casting yahoo group?


gorvil
 

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh <hughmcc@e...>"
<hughmcc@e...> wrote:
Snip>

Half nut on carriage: that lever seems to only move a few degrees
(when carriage/cross-feed shift is in neutral). Is that correct?
How do I know if it works?

thanks again for all the help!

It should move about 10 or 15 degrees. You can tell if it works
because it will grab the leadscrew and you wont be able to move the
saddle with the handwheel anymore. You can also see the nuts engage
with a flashlight and maybe a mirror under the apron. You may need
to jiggle the saddle a little or have the leadscrew turning to engage
the nuts.

There is an interlock between the crossfeed/longitudinal feed shift
lever to keep the halfnuts from engaging at the same time. Check
this too.


Glen Reeser