10L motor replacement recommendations #10l
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jahick4@...
Hi all, I’ve also read some debate in other posts over the past few years regarding horsepower rating. If I’m going to be replacing the motor anyway, I’d just assume give the old girl a power upgrade, too. Would a 1.5 or 2hp motor be a worthwhile upgrade for my machine? At what hp rating does the belt drive start to become a limiting factor in power transmission?
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Andrei
Many have done a Consew 1000 sewing motor installation.
Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of jahick4@... <jahick4@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 2:06:22 PM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> Subject: [SouthBendLathe] 10L motor replacement recommendations #10l Hi all, I’ve also read some debate in other posts over the past few years regarding horsepower rating. If I’m going to be replacing the motor anyway, I’d just assume give the old girl a power upgrade, too. Would a 1.5 or 2hp motor be a worthwhile upgrade for my
machine? At what hp rating does the belt drive start to become a limiting factor in power transmission?
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glenn brooks <brooks.glenn@...>
Going thru the same thing. In the past, the only real solution is just drill new holes in the mounting plate.
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Personally I would not upgrade to higher HP, certainly not 1.5hp. Reason being the older machines were designed with a specific hp in mind. If you increase HP, you run the risk of overloading some castings and gears and breaking same in the event of a mishap. The 10L have served a long and useful life with 3/4 hp, I would stick with what works... Maybe the SB gurus can add more knowledgeable comment... Glenn B.
On Mar 15, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:
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My vintage 1941 10L Catalog 8187-RN 4-1/2' bed, shipped from the factory with a 3/4HP 1 phase 1725 rpm 115VAC motor, make is X'e out. That should be powerful enough as long as you don't buy one of the Chinese motors. Their horses seem to be a little smaller than ours. The motor that came with it is a 220VAC 3 phase motor. From the size, I'd guesstimate 1.5HP or so, but there's no data plate. I'm going on verbal info from the previous owner, who is going on the same from the guy he got it from. As best we all remember. So no promises there! ;) Anyway, I hope the info that came off the build card helps. Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 01:06:28 PM CDT, <jahick4@...> wrote: Hi all, I’ve also read some debate in other posts over the past few years regarding horsepower rating. If I’m going to be replacing the motor anyway, I’d just assume give the old girl a power upgrade, too. Would a 1.5 or 2hp motor be a worthwhile upgrade for my machine? At what hp rating does the belt drive start to become a limiting factor in power transmission?
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mike allen
Consew makes motors larger than the 1000 , a quik google
will show ya several different watt ratings. I just did a
treadmill conversion just to see how I liked the variable speed
& so far I love it . but I think for the long run I'll end up with dither a Consew or a 110VAC to 230 3 phase with a vfd from dealers electric . I just need to under stand the whole VFD control YMMV animal
On 3/15/2020 11:09 AM, Andrei wrote:
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amriensr
I just got finished re-powering my 1942 Heavy Ten. I went to a Leeson 1hp 90v DC motor and a KB speed controller. I really like the the variable speed and torque compensation feature.
On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 2:25:58 PM EDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
Consew makes motors larger than the 1000 , a quik google
will show ya several different watt ratings. I just did a
treadmill conversion just to see how I liked the variable speed
& so far I love it . but I think for the long run I'll end up with dither a Consew or a 110VAC to 230 3 phase with a vfd from dealers electric . I just need to under stand the whole VFD control YMMV animal On 3/15/2020 11:09 AM, Andrei wrote:
Many have done a Consew 1000 sewing motor installation.
Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.
From:
SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on
behalf of jahick4@... <jahick4@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 2:06:22 PM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> Subject: [SouthBendLathe] 10L motor replacement recommendations #10l Hi all, I’ve also read some debate in other posts over the past few
years regarding horsepower rating. If I’m going to be
replacing the motor anyway, I’d just assume give the old girl
a power upgrade, too. Would a 1.5 or 2hp motor be a worthwhile
upgrade for my machine? At what hp rating does the belt drive
start to become a limiting factor in power transmission?
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jahick4@...
Thank you so much for the advice, gentlemen. I really appreciate it greatly! I’ll definitely look into the Consew motors. It certainly sounds promising.
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oscar kern <kernbigo@...>
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Andrei
Remember to salvage the controller from the treadmill, otherwise it will be expensive to source one to match the motor
Typos are courtesy of autocorrect.
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 3:55:47 PM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 10L motor replacement recommendations #10l Go with DC treadmill motor
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m. allan noah
I have a 2hp 3phase motor with VFD on my 10L. The biggest problem
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you'll have is reusing the motor pulley. If your old motor uses a different shaft size than currently available motors, you'll have more work to do. In my case (moving from a 66 to 143T), I made a new pulley for a J-series poly-v (serpentine) belt. The mounting plate was pretty easy, just take some measurements and drill/tap 4 holes. allan
On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 3:04 PM <jahick4@gmail.com> wrote:
--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"
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David R8
On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 12:00 PM, amriensr wrote: I just got finished re-powering my 1942 Heavy Ten. I went to a Leeson 1hp 90v DC motor and a KB speed controller. I really like the the variable speed and torque compensation feature.
I’ve been following this discussion with interest as I’m considering repowering my 10K. Do you have some details on the motor and speed controller you used?
Link to sources would be greatly appreciated.
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mike allen
like to hear more about yer Arduino speed controller animal
On 3/15/2020 12:04 PM,
jahick4@... wrote:
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jahick4@...
It’s been quite a while, so my memory isn’t all that fresh, but when I get back to work (where my boss is kind enough to let me keep my equipment) tomorrow and can verify the motor and motor controller specs, I’ll gladly post some pictures information on it. I’m not terrible with coding, but had it not been for a guy who had done a similar project with the same motor and controller, I’d have been way over my head. The guy was kind enough to not only post the code but also provided a great write up on the circuit. Due to work, the project hasn’t quite been completed to my satisfaction - my goal was to eliminate the treadmill control panel entirely and use a reed switch to measure and display the spindle RPM on a 7 segment display, but that has yet to happen. I am able to control the speed through the entire range of the motor using a potentiometer, and that’s the most important part to me. She’s ugly as hell, but she can drill a mean hole without having to mess with step pulleys.
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jahick4@...
Have you found 2hp to play well with your 10l? Did you notice a lot of difference in performance? I’ve heard so many different opinions on how much power these old lathes can actually make use of and how much they can safely handle. I thought I had read that they came equipped with up to 1.5hp out of the factory, but I may have been mistaken.
respectfully, John
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mike allen
from what I understand HP for HP the 3 phase motor will
have more torque than the single phase will . I've been eyeing a
1/2 hp 3 phase motor with a TECO VFD which has 110 VAC imput &
3 Phase output from Dealerselectric for @ $165.00 with out shipping . I just
want to understand VFD's more before I pop for one . I'm sittin
on 6 or 7 treadmill motor rite now , with homes for all of them I
just need to come up with a affordable controller for them . I have one I just recently put on my 9A with a MC-2100 controller & a small board I got from a guy in one of the forums for the speed control , seems to be working pretty good but I havn't done any work with anything but aluminum since I put it on . what I would like to come up with is a Arduino controller with a 4x4 keypad that I can input speed or if I get real smart ( which not sure that will happen ) input material from a pull down menu & then diameter from tables in the handbook & have that in turn fire up the motor at the speed I need . I'm way way far from that but I'm tryin to teach myself Arduino . animal
On 3/15/2020 2:35 PM, jahick4@...
wrote:
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m. allan noah
On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 5:35 PM <jahick4@gmail.com> wrote:
On any cone-head lathe, the limiting factor is the belts. I'll never actually be able to put 2HP through the upper belt, it will either slip or walk off the step. The place the extra power makes a difference is when you slow the motor down using the VFD. Generally, frequency and power are directly related (ignoring fancy feedback mechanisms). IOW, at half speed, the motor makes half power. So when I am running at lower speed, I've still got 'reasonable' power available to remove metal. I routinely run the VFD at 30 Hz, and can still take cuts that will just barely throw the upper belt. If we were talking about a gearhead lathe, I'd be more concerned. allan -- "well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"
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John Dammeyer
I have a Baldor 1HP, 1725 RPM 220VAC 3 phase motor I bought to replace the 1HP single phase that came with the lathe. I use an inexpensive GS-1 VFD
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https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro/gs1-21p0 It's not a high quality one but runs from low to high and even with back gear and parting I've had the 7 rib serpentine belt slip. Motor doesn't even care. I put a small pulley on the motor and used the large flat belt cast iron pulley with that. I still move the flat belt for different speed ranges. But within the middle pulley the range is more than adequate. John Dammeyer
-----Original Message-----
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John I am in total agreement with what you did going three phase. My first experience with 3 phase was nothing short of amazing. I enjoy the torque the motors have and probably the greatest thing is no capacitors to burn out and to reverse the motor direction just switch two of the leads. Like you said the range of speed is excellent. More people that need a new replacement motor need to check out the 3 phase and the VFD, what a winning pair. Nelson
On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 06:02:42 PM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:
I have a Baldor 1HP, 1725 RPM 220VAC 3 phase motor I bought to replace the 1HP single phase that came with the lathe. I use an inexpensive GS-1 VFD https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro/gs1-21p0 It's not a high quality one but runs from low to high and even with back gear and parting I've had the 7 rib serpentine belt slip. Motor doesn't even care. I put a small pulley on the motor and used the large flat belt cast iron pulley with that. I still move the flat belt for different speed ranges. But within the middle pulley the range is more than adequate. John Dammeyer > -----Original Message----- > From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On > Behalf Of m. allan noah > Sent: March-15-20 3:45 PM > To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io > Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 10L motor replacement recommendations > #10l > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 5:35 PM <jahick4@...> wrote: > > > > m. allan noah > > 4:01pm > > > > I have a 2hp 3phase motor with VFD on my 10L. The biggest problem > > you'll have is reusing the motor pulley. If your old motor uses a > > different shaft size than currently available motors, you'll have more > > work to do. In my case (moving from a 66 to 143T), I made a new pulley > > for a J-series poly-v (serpentine) belt. The mounting plate was pretty > > easy, just take some measurements and drill/tap 4 holes. > > > > allan > > > > Have you found 2hp to play well with your 10l? Did you notice a lot of > difference in performance? I�ve heard so many different opinions on how > much power these old lathes can actually make use of and how much they > can safely handle. I thought I had read that they came equipped with up to > 1.5hp out of the factory, but I may have been mistaken. > > > > On any cone-head lathe, the limiting factor is the belts. I'll never > actually be able to put 2HP through the upper belt, it will either > slip or walk off the step. The place the extra power makes a > difference is when you slow the motor down using the VFD. Generally, > frequency and power are directly related (ignoring fancy feedback > mechanisms). IOW, at half speed, the motor makes half power. So when I > am running at lower speed, I've still got 'reasonable' power available > to remove metal. I routinely run the VFD at 30 Hz, and can still take > cuts that will just barely throw the upper belt. > > If we were talking about a gearhead lathe, I'd be more concerned. > > allan > -- > "well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge > of my hand" > >
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I would not buy a motor smaller than 1 hp and the VFD to be 220v single phase. Dollar for dollar you will have better set up. Nelson
On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 05:16:49 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
from what I understand HP for HP the 3 phase motor will
have more torque than the single phase will . I've been eyeing a
1/2 hp 3 phase motor with a TECO VFD which has 110 VAC imput &
3 Phase output from Dealerselectric for @ $165.00 with out shipping . I just
want to understand VFD's more before I pop for one . I'm sittin
on 6 or 7 treadmill motor rite now , with homes for all of them I
just need to come up with a affordable controller for them . I have one I just recently put on my 9A with a MC-2100 controller & a small board I got from a guy in one of the forums for the speed control , seems to be working pretty good but I havn't done any work with anything but aluminum since I put it on . what I would like to come up with is a Arduino controller with a 4x4 keypad that I can input speed or if I get real smart ( which not sure that will happen ) input material from a pull down menu & then diameter from tables in the handbook & have that in turn fire up the motor at the speed I need . I'm way way far from that but I'm tryin to teach myself Arduino . animal On 3/15/2020 2:35 PM, jahick4@...
wrote:
Have you found 2hp to play
well with your 10l? Did you notice a lot of difference in
performance? I’ve heard so many different opinions on how much
power these old lathes can actually make use of and how much
they can safely handle. I thought I had read that they came
equipped with up to 1.5hp out of the factory, but I may have
been mistaken.
respectfully, John
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John Dammeyer
Hi Nelson, Thanks. For my mill I'm going in a different direction. I priced out a 3 Phase 2HP that would fit as there really wasn't anything available locally. That and a nicer VFD started looking pretty expensive.
So I went with a Chinese Bergerda 1800W AC Servo c/w encoder. It's not mounted yet but soon. With 0V to 10V input I get about 200 RPM up to 3000RPM. With step/dir I can run 0 to 3000 RPM and the MESA 7i92H has no trouble doing that.
So eventually I'll have complete tapping capabilities at any speed. And it's way smaller than a 3 phase. Time will tell.
John
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Collar via Groups.Io
Sent: March-15-20 5:06 PM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 10L motor replacement recommendations #10l
John I am in total agreement with what you did going three phase. My first experience with 3 phase was nothing short of amazing. I enjoy the torque the motors have and probably the greatest thing is no capacitors to burn out and to reverse the motor direction just switch two of the leads. Like you said the range of speed is excellent. More people that need a new replacement motor need to check out the 3 phase and the VFD, what a winning pair. Nelson
On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 06:02:42 PM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:
I have a Baldor 1HP, 1725 RPM 220VAC 3 phase motor I bought to replace the 1HP single phase that came with the lathe. I use an inexpensive GS-1 VFD
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