Date   
Re: Locking Shoes for Compound...among other things.

George
 

Bill, 
Attached (I think) are pictures of the shoe. It's mild steel 3/8" OD X 3/4" long. The radius on the end is cut to match the compound diameter at it's 60 degree angle. I think Jim B. made some of these. I remember seeing a "how to" somewhere. This may be in the files. These are harder to make than first appears.
George 

Locking Shoes for Compound...among other things.

Bill in OKC too
 

In disassembling my "new" vintage 1941 10L x 4.5' bed Tool Room lathe, model 8187-RM (or possibly RN) I found the shoes in the compound missing. Anyone got any idea of the dimensions? Also, is the angle face radiused to match the cone, or flat?  I should be able to figure out the angle from that on the cone, and of course it has to fit in the hole. May need replacement dog-point setscrews, as well, so I may need to make it longer or shorter than stock, depending on what I can find that fits the threads. I got the kit of soft-goods parts, felts and gasket, with the ILION book on renovating the 10L & up lathes. It has been invaluable. Plan is to completely disassemble the lathe, degrease everything, derust everything (large parts without non-ferrous inserts by electrolytic rust removal, small parts and those with non-ferrous inserts by Evapo-Rust), strip paint, mask off machined surfaces, and repaint. Replace any bushings and bearings, a few of the oiler covers, and reassemble. I'll need to buy the necessary oils and grease for the gears. Going to need some covers, want a carriage stop, micrometer stop, and some other goodies. I'm watching a couple of toolpost grinders on ebay, but that is really getting ahead of myself. Need to check out my motor, or replace it, and want a 3phase with VFD, but I may have to settle for a 1phase motor. The motor I have is 3 phase but no data plate, but it's old. It isn't original, either. Shipped with a 1phase 3/4hp motor, to the Ruritan Armory in New Jersey, on October 14th, 1941. Yes, I bought the serial number card. My baby is 77 years old. Hope to make it last another 77 years, at a minimum. Serial Number 116745. This was Bill Hinkle's lathe, in case I haven't mentioned it before. Thanks Bill!

Bill in OKC

HL 10 parts

Ray
 

I have a 41/2' ,53 bed ,with original headstock and saddle .there is about .0015 wear (the proverbial dip ) for a few inches in front of the headstock . it cut reasonable well , I would like to get rid of these items as I need the room for my new project . I was fortunate enough to acquire a  flame hardened 60's era bed with all said parts ,which I fitted to a 53 pedestal base (tool room ,"that was a project ") . all the gears in the headstock ,saddle and apron are disassembled or gone ,the spindle and bearing are in the headstock ( no gears ) . I reside in a small town bout 50 miles south of Houston ,Texas . local pick up only (I am not  an e-bay seller )  couple hundred bucks ,ill help ya load it up ,  Ray
  

Re: Compound sb9

fwj4570
 

check on ebay for a used compound .  

Re: Compound sb9

William Brown
 

This is how I repaired it. My first attempt was just two pins and I was off center about a 32nd or maybe even a sixteenth of an inch. The second time I drilled the center and tapped and bolted it before I drilled the pins. It fits and works so far. I don't know how much my dad used it and if it was him or a previous owner but there was what looked like super glue or similar on it so it had been broken before. After looking closer at the cutting tool I was using it had a small chip, I'm now getting a decent finish.


On Mon, Nov 5, 2018, 7:56 AM m. allan noah <kitno455@...> wrote:
Rough finish is likely your cutting tool, your speeds & feeds, or the
material. You're going to have to give us a lot more info.

allan
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 9:30 PM William Brown <bigwilliebrown@...> wrote:
>
> My dad bought an old South Bend 9 inch lathe that came from a gunsmiths estate. My dad passed away this past January and I now have the lathe. I tried using it and realized the compound where the tool holder sets is broken. I filled a couple 3/32 inch hole in the outer part and tapped and countersunk the shaft on it and it now cuts. The problem is that I'm getting a rather rough finish on my work. Could this be due to wear in the headstock, the apron, the ways or maybe somewhere else ? I might wind up just tearing it down and overhauling it.
>



--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"



Re: Compound sb9

Hartley Smithers
 

Have a look at Joe Pieczynski on youtube. He has a good rundown on bad surface finish causes. Called "Bad Turned Surface Finish and Some Reasons Why"

-----Original Message-----
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of m. allan noah
Sent: Monday, November 5, 2018 2:56 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Compound sb9

Rough finish is likely your cutting tool, your speeds & feeds, or the material. You're going to have to give us a lot more info.

allan
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 9:30 PM William Brown <bigwilliebrown@...> wrote:

My dad bought an old South Bend 9 inch lathe that came from a gunsmiths estate. My dad passed away this past January and I now have the lathe. I tried using it and realized the compound where the tool holder sets is broken. I filled a couple 3/32 inch hole in the outer part and tapped and countersunk the shaft on it and it now cuts. The problem is that I'm getting a rather rough finish on my work. Could this be due to wear in the headstock, the apron, the ways or maybe somewhere else ? I might wind up just tearing it down and overhauling it.


--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"

Re: Compound sb9

m. allan noah
 

Rough finish is likely your cutting tool, your speeds & feeds, or the
material. You're going to have to give us a lot more info.

allan

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 9:30 PM William Brown <bigwilliebrown@...> wrote:

My dad bought an old South Bend 9 inch lathe that came from a gunsmiths estate. My dad passed away this past January and I now have the lathe. I tried using it and realized the compound where the tool holder sets is broken. I filled a couple 3/32 inch hole in the outer part and tapped and countersunk the shaft on it and it now cuts. The problem is that I'm getting a rather rough finish on my work. Could this be due to wear in the headstock, the apron, the ways or maybe somewhere else ? I might wind up just tearing it down and overhauling it.
--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"

Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

Phil Koontz
 

Hi John--

I think I have what you want.  My lathe is a 14-1/2, and it came with both a faceplate and a backing plate.  

Contact me off list at 
phil.koontz@...




On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 4:21 PM John M via Groups.Io <cudaboy66=actionautomotiveinc.com@groups.io> wrote:
I saw those but I just need the backing plate or an old dog plate ( with the right thread) I can make into a backing plate. I was going to just get a blank and try to make one but my internal threading skills are sub par at best.

Re: Compound sb9

Guenther Paul
 

William  compound's break if you have them hanging out of the front to far, they are made from cast iron. They are basically junk when they break 
GP


On Sunday, November 4, 2018 9:38 PM, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Let’s start with a picture of the compound and repairs. 

-8
Jim B,

On Nov 4, 2018, at 9:04 PM, William Brown <bigwilliebrown@...> wrote:

My dad bought an old South Bend 9 inch lathe that came from a gunsmiths estate. My dad passed away this past January and I now have the lathe. I tried using it and realized the compound where the tool holder sets is broken. I filled a couple 3/32 inch hole in the outer part and tapped and countersunk the shaft on it and it now cuts. The problem is that I'm getting a rather rough finish on my work. Could this be due to wear in the headstock, the apron, the ways or maybe somewhere else ? I might wind up just tearing it down and overhauling it.

--
Jim B


Re: Compound sb9

Jim_B
 

Let’s start with a picture of the compound and repairs. 

-8
Jim B,

On Nov 4, 2018, at 9:04 PM, William Brown <bigwilliebrown@...> wrote:

My dad bought an old South Bend 9 inch lathe that came from a gunsmiths estate. My dad passed away this past January and I now have the lathe. I tried using it and realized the compound where the tool holder sets is broken. I filled a couple 3/32 inch hole in the outer part and tapped and countersunk the shaft on it and it now cuts. The problem is that I'm getting a rather rough finish on my work. Could this be due to wear in the headstock, the apron, the ways or maybe somewhere else ? I might wind up just tearing it down and overhauling it.

--
Jim B

Compound sb9

William Brown
 

My dad bought an old South Bend 9 inch lathe that came from a gunsmiths estate. My dad passed away this past January and I now have the lathe. I tried using it and realized the compound where the tool holder sets is broken. I filled a couple 3/32 inch hole in the outer part and tapped and countersunk the shaft on it and it now cuts. The problem is that I'm getting a rather rough finish on my work. Could this be due to wear in the headstock, the apron, the ways or maybe somewhere else ? I might wind up just tearing it down and overhauling it.

Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

John M
 

I saw those but I just need the backing plate or an old dog plate ( with the right thread) I can make into a backing plate. I was going to just get a blank and try to make one but my internal threading skills are sub par at best.

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Thanks John,

Apologies Oscar!

Eddie

On Sunday, 4 November 2018, 15:44:13 GMT, <jahick4@...> wrote:


Eddie,

Kernbigo and Oscar Kern are the same individual. He was pointing out that he himself had erred. I missed that too, initially.

Respectfully,

John

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

jahick4@...
 

Eddie,

Kernbigo and Oscar Kern are the same individual. He was pointing out that he himself had erred. I missed that too, initially.

Respectfully,

John

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Hate to point this out to contradict you, Oscar, but kernbigo quite specifically states in his post that he pocketed the SPINDLE.

I agree wholeheartedly with you - WHY are you going to oil pocket a shaft?  HOW? - I can think of several ways, but it doesn't mean I'll ever do it!

Eddie

On Sunday, 4 November 2018, 13:22:55 GMT, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:


The shafts is not oil pocket, it is the plain bearings,common sense would tell you that.The spindle shafts is highly polished.How are you going to oil pocket a shaft.



On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 5:44 AM, eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io
<eddie.draper@...> wrote:
Please excuse me for going a touch off topic, but I have never heard of oil pockets in shafts before.  What is the purpose of oil pockets in a shaft that is always rotating fast enough to establish hydrodynamic lubrication?  Like oil grooves in housings, don't they just diminish hydrodynamic lubrication capabilities?  (Except of course when someone insists on feeding oil at a high pressure location like the loaded side of a bearing, rather than where it is lowest, thereby allowing limited hydrodynamic lubrication to be established by feeding oil to the lower pressure area and not having it flow backwards out of the feed hole as soon as rotation occurs?)  One certainly should not put oil grooves on the axle bearings or pockets in the axles of say a locomotive.  Rather, the oil needs to be applied to the underside (unloaded side) of the journal, as a result of which a very high pressure and quite thick film will develop at the top.

Wick fed machine tool spindles are a special case, as a substantial oil flow is needed to equalise temperatures of shafts and housings to prevent differential expansion from causing a seizure at high speed (nothing at all to do with lubrication) thereby allowing smaller clearances when run at high speeds.  I would suggest that "kernbigo"s (apologies, haven't picked up your name) 1/2 thou spindle clearance capability is due to exceedingly good circularity of both shaft and housing / shells (which as an experienced hand scraper he should be very capable of achieving).  Maybe also keeping the lathe relatively warm and not going straight to max speed on a cold start, so that the oil is not over viscous (and therefore generating a lot of heat by fluid shear).  The third vital component is a good oil flow, so clean wicks / felts.

Always willing to learn,

Eddie

On Saturday, 3 November 2018, 16:41:42 GMT, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:


Kernbigo@... 
Make your self a spoon scaper and pit oil pockets in the old spindle,you may find something on you tube how to do it
I'am  a ferry  experience hand sraper and I did my spindle no I can run my bearing +.0005

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 11:04 AM, benjithestupiddog via Groups.Io
<benjithestupiddog@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Gents, 

I am trying to work out what is the lesser of 2 evils, I am lucky enough to have a choice of 2 headstocks for my 9a rebuild, the pretty rough looking original and another nicer looking one.

I'm am not the most experienced machinist so I really cant tell which is worse long term, a head not matched to the bed or just carrying on with a rough looking spindle bearing.

Strangely the spindle itself looks fine.

Also on the better looking head the bearing does seem to have moved around a bit and does not align with the wick hole properly.

I've attached a couple of pics so you can see what I mean, the grooves are the catch your nail on type, not the see it but cant feel it I had hoped for.

I'm a bit stuck with how to move forward so as always any advice is greatly appreciated.

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

Jim_B
 

SB headstocks, unlike many other lathes are self aligning.

Sent from my iPhone-8
Jim B,

On Nov 4, 2018, at 8:35 AM, Scott McGrath <scott@...> wrote:

Replacing the headstock is a no-no unless you have the skills/tools to align the saddle and tailstock to the NEW headstock.

As for the damaged oiler wick hole remove the bearing caps (keep track of the spacers) and simply use a taper ream to remove the burr at the edge dont trim the wick. If you dont feel comfortable doing that just use a countersink bit handheld and use that to break the burr or a long deburring tool

There are lots of kits on Ebay to replace the wicks and other lubricant fabrics used on southbend lathes.

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
--
Jim B

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

Scott McGrath
 

Replacing the headstock is a no-no unless you have the skills/tools to align the saddle and tailstock to the NEW headstock.

As for the damaged oiler wick hole remove the bearing caps (keep track of the spacers) and simply use a taper ream to remove the burr at the edge dont trim the wick. If you dont feel comfortable doing that just use a countersink bit handheld and use that to break the burr or a long deburring tool

There are lots of kits on Ebay to replace the wicks and other lubricant fabrics used on southbend lathes.

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

oscar kern
 

Sorry I had a typo natural the spindle is not oil pocket it is the plain bearings


On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 7:22 AM, oscar kern via Groups.Io
<kernbigo@...> wrote:
The shafts is not oil pocket, it is the plain bearings,common sense would tell you that.The spindle shafts is highly polished.How are you going to oil pocket a shaft.



On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 5:44 AM, eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io
<eddie.draper@...> wrote:
Please excuse me for going a touch off topic, but I have never heard of oil pockets in shafts before.  What is the purpose of oil pockets in a shaft that is always rotating fast enough to establish hydrodynamic lubrication?  Like oil grooves in housings, don't they just diminish hydrodynamic lubrication capabilities?  (Except of course when someone insists on feeding oil at a high pressure location like the loaded side of a bearing, rather than where it is lowest, thereby allowing limited hydrodynamic lubrication to be established by feeding oil to the lower pressure area and not having it flow backwards out of the feed hole as soon as rotation occurs?)  One certainly should not put oil grooves on the axle bearings or pockets in the axles of say a locomotive.  Rather, the oil needs to be applied to the underside (unloaded side) of the journal, as a result of which a very high pressure and quite thick film will develop at the top.

Wick fed machine tool spindles are a special case, as a substantial oil flow is needed to equalise temperatures of shafts and housings to prevent differential expansion from causing a seizure at high speed (nothing at all to do with lubrication) thereby allowing smaller clearances when run at high speeds.  I would suggest that "kernbigo"s (apologies, haven't picked up your name) 1/2 thou spindle clearance capability is due to exceedingly good circularity of both shaft and housing / shells (which as an experienced hand scraper he should be very capable of achieving).  Maybe also keeping the lathe relatively warm and not going straight to max speed on a cold start, so that the oil is not over viscous (and therefore generating a lot of heat by fluid shear).  The third vital component is a good oil flow, so clean wicks / felts.

Always willing to learn,

Eddie

On Saturday, 3 November 2018, 16:41:42 GMT, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:


Kernbigo@... 
Make your self a spoon scaper and pit oil pockets in the old spindle,you may find something on you tube how to do it
I'am  a ferry  experience hand sraper and I did my spindle no I can run my bearing +.0005

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 11:04 AM, benjithestupiddog via Groups.Io
<benjithestupiddog@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Gents, 

I am trying to work out what is the lesser of 2 evils, I am lucky enough to have a choice of 2 headstocks for my 9a rebuild, the pretty rough looking original and another nicer looking one.

I'm am not the most experienced machinist so I really cant tell which is worse long term, a head not matched to the bed or just carrying on with a rough looking spindle bearing.

Strangely the spindle itself looks fine.

Also on the better looking head the bearing does seem to have moved around a bit and does not align with the wick hole properly.

I've attached a couple of pics so you can see what I mean, the grooves are the catch your nail on type, not the see it but cant feel it I had hoped for.

I'm a bit stuck with how to move forward so as always any advice is greatly appreciated.

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

oscar kern
 

The shafts is not oil pocket, it is the plain bearings,common sense would tell you that.The spindle shafts is highly polished.How are you going to oil pocket a shaft.



On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 5:44 AM, eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io
<eddie.draper@...> wrote:
Please excuse me for going a touch off topic, but I have never heard of oil pockets in shafts before.  What is the purpose of oil pockets in a shaft that is always rotating fast enough to establish hydrodynamic lubrication?  Like oil grooves in housings, don't they just diminish hydrodynamic lubrication capabilities?  (Except of course when someone insists on feeding oil at a high pressure location like the loaded side of a bearing, rather than where it is lowest, thereby allowing limited hydrodynamic lubrication to be established by feeding oil to the lower pressure area and not having it flow backwards out of the feed hole as soon as rotation occurs?)  One certainly should not put oil grooves on the axle bearings or pockets in the axles of say a locomotive.  Rather, the oil needs to be applied to the underside (unloaded side) of the journal, as a result of which a very high pressure and quite thick film will develop at the top.

Wick fed machine tool spindles are a special case, as a substantial oil flow is needed to equalise temperatures of shafts and housings to prevent differential expansion from causing a seizure at high speed (nothing at all to do with lubrication) thereby allowing smaller clearances when run at high speeds.  I would suggest that "kernbigo"s (apologies, haven't picked up your name) 1/2 thou spindle clearance capability is due to exceedingly good circularity of both shaft and housing / shells (which as an experienced hand scraper he should be very capable of achieving).  Maybe also keeping the lathe relatively warm and not going straight to max speed on a cold start, so that the oil is not over viscous (and therefore generating a lot of heat by fluid shear).  The third vital component is a good oil flow, so clean wicks / felts.

Always willing to learn,

Eddie

On Saturday, 3 November 2018, 16:41:42 GMT, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:


Kernbigo@... 
Make your self a spoon scaper and pit oil pockets in the old spindle,you may find something on you tube how to do it
I'am  a ferry  experience hand sraper and I did my spindle no I can run my bearing +.0005

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 11:04 AM, benjithestupiddog via Groups.Io
<benjithestupiddog@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Gents, 

I am trying to work out what is the lesser of 2 evils, I am lucky enough to have a choice of 2 headstocks for my 9a rebuild, the pretty rough looking original and another nicer looking one.

I'm am not the most experienced machinist so I really cant tell which is worse long term, a head not matched to the bed or just carrying on with a rough looking spindle bearing.

Strangely the spindle itself looks fine.

Also on the better looking head the bearing does seem to have moved around a bit and does not align with the wick hole properly.

I've attached a couple of pics so you can see what I mean, the grooves are the catch your nail on type, not the see it but cant feel it I had hoped for.

I'm a bit stuck with how to move forward so as always any advice is greatly appreciated.

Re: Headstock, What would you do?

Guenther Paul
 

Ben  can you remove the O ring ( seal ) take a picture with out it and resend the picture. Latheman2 may also have some recommendations  
GP


On Sunday, November 4, 2018 6:44 AM, "eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io" <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


Please excuse me for going a touch off topic, but I have never heard of oil pockets in shafts before.  What is the purpose of oil pockets in a shaft that is always rotating fast enough to establish hydrodynamic lubrication?  Like oil grooves in housings, don't they just diminish hydrodynamic lubrication capabilities?  (Except of course when someone insists on feeding oil at a high pressure location like the loaded side of a bearing, rather than where it is lowest, thereby allowing limited hydrodynamic lubrication to be established by feeding oil to the lower pressure area and not having it flow backwards out of the feed hole as soon as rotation occurs?)  One certainly should not put oil grooves on the axle bearings or pockets in the axles of say a locomotive.  Rather, the oil needs to be applied to the underside (unloaded side) of the journal, as a result of which a very high pressure and quite thick film will develop at the top.

Wick fed machine tool spindles are a special case, as a substantial oil flow is needed to equalise temperatures of shafts and housings to prevent differential expansion from causing a seizure at high speed (nothing at all to do with lubrication) thereby allowing smaller clearances when run at high speeds.  I would suggest that "kernbigo"s (apologies, haven't picked up your name) 1/2 thou spindle clearance capability is due to exceedingly good circularity of both shaft and housing / shells (which as an experienced hand scraper he should be very capable of achieving).  Maybe also keeping the lathe relatively warm and not going straight to max speed on a cold start, so that the oil is not over viscous (and therefore generating a lot of heat by fluid shear).  The third vital component is a good oil flow, so clean wicks / felts.

Always willing to learn,

Eddie

On Saturday, 3 November 2018, 16:41:42 GMT, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:


Kernbigo@... 
Make your self a spoon scaper and pit oil pockets in the old spindle,you may find something on you tube how to do it
I'am  a ferry  experience hand sraper and I did my spindle no I can run my bearing +.0005

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 11:04 AM, benjithestupiddog via Groups.Io
<benjithestupiddog@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Hi Gents, 

I am trying to work out what is the lesser of 2 evils, I am lucky enough to have a choice of 2 headstocks for my 9a rebuild, the pretty rough looking original and another nicer looking one.

I'm am not the most experienced machinist so I really cant tell which is worse long term, a head not matched to the bed or just carrying on with a rough looking spindle bearing.

Strangely the spindle itself looks fine.

Also on the better looking head the bearing does seem to have moved around a bit and does not align with the wick hole properly.

I've attached a couple of pics so you can see what I mean, the grooves are the catch your nail on type, not the see it but cant feel it I had hoped for.

I'm a bit stuck with how to move forward so as always any advice is greatly appreciated.