Date   

Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

ww_big_al
 

I would say just try it. If it don’t work you learn and try something else. Would be the first time I wasted $25 or $50 trying something. Let us know how it works out for you. We can all learn then. 

Al Knack

On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:57 PM, Dale Scroggins <scrof@...> wrote:

Guenther, I want to reduce or eliminate chatter.  I realize that other factors contribute to chatter, but if I can eliminate one cause at low cost, why not do so?  Material costs about $25.

I live in a region that has big humidity swings and have no air conditioning in my shop.  Metal things bolted to wood tend to loosen.  My lathe is currently through-bolted to a 3/4 plywood bench top.  That's how it was mounted when I got it.  When it starts moaning in a cut, the first thing I check are the leg bolts.  They often have loosened up.  Doubling up on the plywood or using a solid core door would likely make the bolt loosening problem worse.  I know that keeping the wood sealed would help, but that's a lot of work.  That's one reason I went to cement board siding on our house a few years ago.

I like the wheels on this lathe bench.  I can keep them, I think, if the lathe is isolated from twisting as the bench is moved around.  I can do that with one bag of concrete mix.  


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

fwhite913
 

https://www.lumberjocks.com/ssnvet/blog/44641

Another design for concrete lathe support stand

 

 

On 12/30/2019 06:15 PM, Nick Jonkman wrote:

Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some 
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and 
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the 
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of 
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch 
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock 
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with 
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I 
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my 
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head 
stock now. Nick





Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Bill in OKC too
 

It's his toy, he can play with it how he wants! It is a fact that the US Government had at one time plans for a concrete stand for SB lathes to help them preform like larger & more expensive lathes in small shops for the production of munitions used to fight WWII. I've been looking for a copy of those plans for years, and I've only had my SB heavy 10L for about a year. There is at least one Atlas lathe on a similar stand, and it supposedly helps improve stiffness, and accuracy. If he decides to do it, I'd like to know how it works out. Might try it myself, one of these days. If I do it first, I'll certainly tell people how it worked out. Do wish I could find the photo I saw several more years ago of what was supposed to be one of these War Production Board concrete lathe stands. It would be a cheap way to approach the accuracy of a Monarch 10EE without the expense of buying one. I'd spent 45 years or so trying to find a South Bend. Always in the wrong place, or flat broke, when they popped up, until October a year ago.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Monday, December 30, 2019, 5:31:59 PM CST, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:



It's a lathe not a grinder get real, your over thinking


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Nick Jonkman
 

Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with chatter. The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head stock now. Nick


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

david pennington
 

Dale, my lathe was mounted on 3/4" plywood, supported on a rectangular perimeter and across the center. It was bolted with bolt and nut. That was too flimsy.

I looked at the SB recommended table top and could not obtain/afford the maple butcher block top, so I glued two layers of 3/4" plywood together and sealed all 6 sides with spar varnish. The bolting of the lathe to the table top is with 3/8" bolts and T-nuts. I kept the original 3/4" plywood layer on top of the glued assembly. I've had that setup for about 5 years and through four moves.

The work I do on the lathe is generally instrument making, so I don't attempt heavy cuts, but I do some work at the limits of precision for the lathe.

One thing I have not attempted is to make my lathe/cabinet assembly movable. It's set it up to stay put.

Hope that's encouraging.

Dave

David W. Pennington
Denver, Colorado
815-382-1994


On Monday, December 30, 2019, 4:31:58 PM MST, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:



It's a lathe not a grinder get real, your over thinking


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

oscar kern <kernbigo@...>
 


It's a lathe not a grinder get real, your over thinking


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Dale Scroggins
 

Guenther, I want to reduce or eliminate chatter.  I realize that other factors contribute to chatter, but if I can eliminate one cause at low cost, why not do so?  Material costs about $25.

I live in a region that has big humidity swings and have no air conditioning in my shop.  Metal things bolted to wood tend to loosen.  My lathe is currently through-bolted to a 3/4 plywood bench top.  That's how it was mounted when I got it.  When it starts moaning in a cut, the first thing I check are the leg bolts.  They often have loosened up.  Doubling up on the plywood or using a solid core door would likely make the bolt loosening problem worse.  I know that keeping the wood sealed would help, but that's a lot of work.  That's one reason I went to cement board siding on our house a few years ago.

I like the wheels on this lathe bench.  I can keep them, I think, if the lathe is isolated from twisting as the bench is moved around.  I can do that with one bag of concrete mix.  


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Roger Bickers
 

Steven, I'll first recommend that the concrete not be placed in direct contact with raw unfinished steel due to moisture issues and rust. Secondly,  I'd still embed sch60 rebar 2" in from all edges and on 8" centers in both directions to keep the concrete cracks from opening up over time and there for sacrificing any ridigity. Next I'd use a mix that had 3/4" limestone aggregate and at least 6.5 bags cement to the cyd. In other words...those bags of premixed concrete at your local big box store wont work.  The whole concrete bench concept here is cost and time prohibitive for even a concrete guy. It'd make more sense just to utilize cast iron legs and bolt them to a sound concrete floor or make a heavy hardwood bench as prescribed by South Bend Lathe. Roger


On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 12:34 PM, Steven Schlegel
<sc.schlegel@...> wrote:
Dale, yes, please report success or failure of your stand.

Roger, you make some key points. Don't rely on the concrete to support the weight.  My purpose for using concrete was to deaden the lathe, so making a steel frame table with a concrete insert for the table top and maybe some frame pieces passing under the mounting positions on the lathe for added strength sounds doable.  The question then is how heavy would the concrete slab need to be to deaden the lathe bed. I think the concrete would be in compression and transferring the weight to the steel members.

Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Dale Scroggins <scrof@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:02:05 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
I bought 9" C model, 42" bed, about 20 years ago, but am just now putting it into full service.  I retired a few years back, and no longer have free access to machine tools.  I was an engineer, working for an aerospace company.  If you use CATIA, you likely know the company name.  Weight matters in the industry.  

I believe a 2" slab, 36" long (just long enough to support the feet) and 10" to 12" wide should provide all the stiffness the lathe needs.  One 80lb bag of mix, remesh, polymer admixture, maybe glass fibers.  Total weight about 100lb.  The rest of the bench top will be wood; 3/4 plywood substrate, topped by ripped 2x4s on edge to match slab height.  Bench frame is an existing steel weldment.  On wheels.  Will report if it works.  And may report if it doesn't.


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Guenther Paul
 

Just what are you trying to machine on your lathe? All this concrete bit is not necessary. I have a 10" mounted on a 1 3/4 solid core door slab, Never had any problems its bean like that for years  

GP


On Monday, December 30, 2019, 12:34:32 PM EST, Steven Schlegel <sc.schlegel@...> wrote:


Dale, yes, please report success or failure of your stand.

Roger, you make some key points. Don't rely on the concrete to support the weight.  My purpose for using concrete was to deaden the lathe, so making a steel frame table with a concrete insert for the table top and maybe some frame pieces passing under the mounting positions on the lathe for added strength sounds doable.  The question then is how heavy would the concrete slab need to be to deaden the lathe bed. I think the concrete would be in compression and transferring the weight to the steel members.

Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Dale Scroggins <scrof@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:02:05 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
I bought 9" C model, 42" bed, about 20 years ago, but am just now putting it into full service.  I retired a few years back, and no longer have free access to machine tools.  I was an engineer, working for an aerospace company.  If you use CATIA, you likely know the company name.  Weight matters in the industry.  

I believe a 2" slab, 36" long (just long enough to support the feet) and 10" to 12" wide should provide all the stiffness the lathe needs.  One 80lb bag of mix, remesh, polymer admixture, maybe glass fibers.  Total weight about 100lb.  The rest of the bench top will be wood; 3/4 plywood substrate, topped by ripped 2x4s on edge to match slab height.  Bench frame is an existing steel weldment.  On wheels.  Will report if it works.  And may report if it doesn't.


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Steven Schlegel
 

Dale, yes, please report success or failure of your stand.

Roger, you make some key points. Don't rely on the concrete to support the weight.  My purpose for using concrete was to deaden the lathe, so making a steel frame table with a concrete insert for the table top and maybe some frame pieces passing under the mounting positions on the lathe for added strength sounds doable.  The question then is how heavy would the concrete slab need to be to deaden the lathe bed. I think the concrete would be in compression and transferring the weight to the steel members.

Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Dale Scroggins <scrof@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:02:05 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
I bought 9" C model, 42" bed, about 20 years ago, but am just now putting it into full service.  I retired a few years back, and no longer have free access to machine tools.  I was an engineer, working for an aerospace company.  If you use CATIA, you likely know the company name.  Weight matters in the industry.  

I believe a 2" slab, 36" long (just long enough to support the feet) and 10" to 12" wide should provide all the stiffness the lathe needs.  One 80lb bag of mix, remesh, polymer admixture, maybe glass fibers.  Total weight about 100lb.  The rest of the bench top will be wood; 3/4 plywood substrate, topped by ripped 2x4s on edge to match slab height.  Bench frame is an existing steel weldment.  On wheels.  Will report if it works.  And may report if it doesn't.


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Dale Scroggins
 

I bought 9" C model, 42" bed, about 20 years ago, but am just now putting it into full service.  I retired a few years back, and no longer have free access to machine tools.  I was an engineer, working for an aerospace company.  If you use CATIA, you likely know the company name.  Weight matters in the industry.  

I believe a 2" slab, 36" long (just long enough to support the feet) and 10" to 12" wide should provide all the stiffness the lathe needs.  One 80lb bag of mix, remesh, polymer admixture, maybe glass fibers.  Total weight about 100lb.  The rest of the bench top will be wood; 3/4 plywood substrate, topped by ripped 2x4s on edge to match slab height.  Bench frame is an existing steel weldment.  On wheels.  Will report if it works.  And may report if it doesn't.


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

"While concrete has compressive strength, it hardly has any tinsel strength..."

Merry Christmas!


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Roger Bickers
 


That park bench isnt a typical concrete mix design for one, nor does it carry a constant live load, that also has to endure prolong periods of vibrations.  Place a vial of mercury on your lathe bench and watch it quiver. Now think of what concrete is made from and how it works. While concrete has compressive strength, it hardly has any tinsel strength...and that compressive strength is highly influenced by the materials under it. ...take those out, suspend it, and now you have something like a hard rubber band.
Concretes science, chemistry,  physics and a ton of variables. For ya'lls little lathes, stick to cast iron, heavy ga. sheetmetal or hardwood for benches. 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:03 PM, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io
<nel2lar@...> wrote:
Bill
I think I would set it on 3/4 inch treated plywood at least the size of the legs, maybe a double layer. This way it will absorb any vibration from the machine and the footprint will be distributed over a greater area. Maybe I will look for legs for my lathe and get it off the bench. I have gotten to the point I hate horizontal surfaces. They tend to be catch it all's. 
Happy and Healthy New Year to All.
Nelson Collar

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:29:13 PM CST, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Mine is a restoration project, sitting on the floor in front of the stand that came with it. Shipping weight for the lathe is 1060lbs, and the stand ships separately. They're another couple or three hundred pounds depending on if they're cast iron, or tubular steel, as mine is. My floor is a very thin slab of concrete. The workshop was a back porch step, then a patio floor, on grade level and with little or no rebar. About 3" thick or so. That's one of the reasons I'm not looking for any larger machines. I don't think the floor would support them. Someone before I got here enclosed it, but didn't put rebar in and pour more concrete, or replace what was there with a real slab.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 7:26:35 PM CST, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io <nel2lar@...> wrote:


Bill
I am kind of lost, you have a 10L. Is it on a stand or mounted to a bench? I have a 10K and it is mounted on a bench on a concrete floor. The concrete had been there for over 20 years and has no cracks yet but if I had a large machine with a lot of vibration I would expect to see cracks. By the way what kind of a floor do you have?
Nelson 

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 07:15:32 PM CST, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


They don't usually have a thousand pounds of stuff mounted to them, either. I don't know offhand what a 9" A or C weighs, but my 10L is around a thousand pounds. And I don't think that includes the stand, which I wouldn't need if I had it on a concrete bench.

SWMBO and I are considering a move, so I don't think a ton or so of concrete bench is a good idea. Not yet, any way! ;) Not to mention that I'm no expert concrete worker. I also wonder how much it would cost to make one out of non-shrinking grout. A bunch, I bet!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 6:59:34 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        but ya just have to remember 1 thing & this is a direct quote from a but that owns a concrete outfit " it's concrete, its gonna crack !!"

        animal

On 12/28/2019 4:44 PM, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io wrote:
Roger 
I do not understand all the noise about concrete. Look at a concrete park bench, usually over 4 foot and I have never found one to sag. And they are not that thick! 
Nelson

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:54:54 AM CST, Roger Bickers via Groups.Io <mr.concrete1964@...> wrote:


A top limited to 3.5" will fail even with rebar. Your top should be at least 6" and would need a double matt of #4 rebar or else the top will sag and flex. 
Youd also need corner bars with 18" tails to join the top and legs together on the end of each matt.
The legs should be 2/3 of the overall size of the top in width to provide sound bearing and support, though I would definitely recommend a rebar cage here also.  

Sounds like overkill to ya? It's not. 

Oh and you'll still have to shim/ level the machine.

Do bother placing your cast iron lathe on aluminum either.. they'll fuse together.

Roger


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:53 PM, ww_big_al

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

 

With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.

 

Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Nelson Collar
 

Bill
I think I would set it on 3/4 inch treated plywood at least the size of the legs, maybe a double layer. This way it will absorb any vibration from the machine and the footprint will be distributed over a greater area. Maybe I will look for legs for my lathe and get it off the bench. I have gotten to the point I hate horizontal surfaces. They tend to be catch it all's. 
Happy and Healthy New Year to All.
Nelson Collar

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:29:13 PM CST, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Mine is a restoration project, sitting on the floor in front of the stand that came with it. Shipping weight for the lathe is 1060lbs, and the stand ships separately. They're another couple or three hundred pounds depending on if they're cast iron, or tubular steel, as mine is. My floor is a very thin slab of concrete. The workshop was a back porch step, then a patio floor, on grade level and with little or no rebar. About 3" thick or so. That's one of the reasons I'm not looking for any larger machines. I don't think the floor would support them. Someone before I got here enclosed it, but didn't put rebar in and pour more concrete, or replace what was there with a real slab.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 7:26:35 PM CST, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io <nel2lar@...> wrote:


Bill
I am kind of lost, you have a 10L. Is it on a stand or mounted to a bench? I have a 10K and it is mounted on a bench on a concrete floor. The concrete had been there for over 20 years and has no cracks yet but if I had a large machine with a lot of vibration I would expect to see cracks. By the way what kind of a floor do you have?
Nelson 

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 07:15:32 PM CST, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


They don't usually have a thousand pounds of stuff mounted to them, either. I don't know offhand what a 9" A or C weighs, but my 10L is around a thousand pounds. And I don't think that includes the stand, which I wouldn't need if I had it on a concrete bench.

SWMBO and I are considering a move, so I don't think a ton or so of concrete bench is a good idea. Not yet, any way! ;) Not to mention that I'm no expert concrete worker. I also wonder how much it would cost to make one out of non-shrinking grout. A bunch, I bet!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 6:59:34 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        but ya just have to remember 1 thing & this is a direct quote from a but that owns a concrete outfit " it's concrete, its gonna crack !!"

        animal

On 12/28/2019 4:44 PM, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io wrote:
Roger 
I do not understand all the noise about concrete. Look at a concrete park bench, usually over 4 foot and I have never found one to sag. And they are not that thick! 
Nelson

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:54:54 AM CST, Roger Bickers via Groups.Io <mr.concrete1964@...> wrote:


A top limited to 3.5" will fail even with rebar. Your top should be at least 6" and would need a double matt of #4 rebar or else the top will sag and flex. 
Youd also need corner bars with 18" tails to join the top and legs together on the end of each matt.
The legs should be 2/3 of the overall size of the top in width to provide sound bearing and support, though I would definitely recommend a rebar cage here also.  

Sounds like overkill to ya? It's not. 

Oh and you'll still have to shim/ level the machine.

Do bother placing your cast iron lathe on aluminum either.. they'll fuse together.

Roger


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:53 PM, ww_big_al

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

 

With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.

 

Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Bill in OKC too
 

Mine is a restoration project, sitting on the floor in front of the stand that came with it. Shipping weight for the lathe is 1060lbs, and the stand ships separately. They're another couple or three hundred pounds depending on if they're cast iron, or tubular steel, as mine is. My floor is a very thin slab of concrete. The workshop was a back porch step, then a patio floor, on grade level and with little or no rebar. About 3" thick or so. That's one of the reasons I'm not looking for any larger machines. I don't think the floor would support them. Someone before I got here enclosed it, but didn't put rebar in and pour more concrete, or replace what was there with a real slab.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 7:26:35 PM CST, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io <nel2lar@...> wrote:


Bill
I am kind of lost, you have a 10L. Is it on a stand or mounted to a bench? I have a 10K and it is mounted on a bench on a concrete floor. The concrete had been there for over 20 years and has no cracks yet but if I had a large machine with a lot of vibration I would expect to see cracks. By the way what kind of a floor do you have?
Nelson 

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 07:15:32 PM CST, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


They don't usually have a thousand pounds of stuff mounted to them, either. I don't know offhand what a 9" A or C weighs, but my 10L is around a thousand pounds. And I don't think that includes the stand, which I wouldn't need if I had it on a concrete bench.

SWMBO and I are considering a move, so I don't think a ton or so of concrete bench is a good idea. Not yet, any way! ;) Not to mention that I'm no expert concrete worker. I also wonder how much it would cost to make one out of non-shrinking grout. A bunch, I bet!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 6:59:34 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        but ya just have to remember 1 thing & this is a direct quote from a but that owns a concrete outfit " it's concrete, its gonna crack !!"

        animal

On 12/28/2019 4:44 PM, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io wrote:
Roger 
I do not understand all the noise about concrete. Look at a concrete park bench, usually over 4 foot and I have never found one to sag. And they are not that thick! 
Nelson

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:54:54 AM CST, Roger Bickers via Groups.Io <mr.concrete1964@...> wrote:


A top limited to 3.5" will fail even with rebar. Your top should be at least 6" and would need a double matt of #4 rebar or else the top will sag and flex. 
Youd also need corner bars with 18" tails to join the top and legs together on the end of each matt.
The legs should be 2/3 of the overall size of the top in width to provide sound bearing and support, though I would definitely recommend a rebar cage here also.  

Sounds like overkill to ya? It's not. 

Oh and you'll still have to shim/ level the machine.

Do bother placing your cast iron lathe on aluminum either.. they'll fuse together.

Roger


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:53 PM, ww_big_al

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

 

With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.

 

Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Nelson Collar
 

Bill
I am kind of lost, you have a 10L. Is it on a stand or mounted to a bench? I have a 10K and it is mounted on a bench on a concrete floor. The concrete had been there for over 20 years and has no cracks yet but if I had a large machine with a lot of vibration I would expect to see cracks. By the way what kind of a floor do you have?
Nelson 

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 07:15:32 PM CST, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


They don't usually have a thousand pounds of stuff mounted to them, either. I don't know offhand what a 9" A or C weighs, but my 10L is around a thousand pounds. And I don't think that includes the stand, which I wouldn't need if I had it on a concrete bench.

SWMBO and I are considering a move, so I don't think a ton or so of concrete bench is a good idea. Not yet, any way! ;) Not to mention that I'm no expert concrete worker. I also wonder how much it would cost to make one out of non-shrinking grout. A bunch, I bet!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 6:59:34 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        but ya just have to remember 1 thing & this is a direct quote from a but that owns a concrete outfit " it's concrete, its gonna crack !!"

        animal

On 12/28/2019 4:44 PM, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io wrote:
Roger 
I do not understand all the noise about concrete. Look at a concrete park bench, usually over 4 foot and I have never found one to sag. And they are not that thick! 
Nelson

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:54:54 AM CST, Roger Bickers via Groups.Io <mr.concrete1964@...> wrote:


A top limited to 3.5" will fail even with rebar. Your top should be at least 6" and would need a double matt of #4 rebar or else the top will sag and flex. 
Youd also need corner bars with 18" tails to join the top and legs together on the end of each matt.
The legs should be 2/3 of the overall size of the top in width to provide sound bearing and support, though I would definitely recommend a rebar cage here also.  

Sounds like overkill to ya? It's not. 

Oh and you'll still have to shim/ level the machine.

Do bother placing your cast iron lathe on aluminum either.. they'll fuse together.

Roger


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:53 PM, ww_big_al

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

 

With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.

 

Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Bill in OKC too
 

They don't usually have a thousand pounds of stuff mounted to them, either. I don't know offhand what a 9" A or C weighs, but my 10L is around a thousand pounds. And I don't think that includes the stand, which I wouldn't need if I had it on a concrete bench.

SWMBO and I are considering a move, so I don't think a ton or so of concrete bench is a good idea. Not yet, any way! ;) Not to mention that I'm no expert concrete worker. I also wonder how much it would cost to make one out of non-shrinking grout. A bunch, I bet!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 6:59:34 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        but ya just have to remember 1 thing & this is a direct quote from a but that owns a concrete outfit " it's concrete, its gonna crack !!"

        animal

On 12/28/2019 4:44 PM, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io wrote:
Roger 
I do not understand all the noise about concrete. Look at a concrete park bench, usually over 4 foot and I have never found one to sag. And they are not that thick! 
Nelson

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:54:54 AM CST, Roger Bickers via Groups.Io <mr.concrete1964@...> wrote:


A top limited to 3.5" will fail even with rebar. Your top should be at least 6" and would need a double matt of #4 rebar or else the top will sag and flex. 
Youd also need corner bars with 18" tails to join the top and legs together on the end of each matt.
The legs should be 2/3 of the overall size of the top in width to provide sound bearing and support, though I would definitely recommend a rebar cage here also.  

Sounds like overkill to ya? It's not. 

Oh and you'll still have to shim/ level the machine.

Do bother placing your cast iron lathe on aluminum either.. they'll fuse together.

Roger


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:53 PM, ww_big_al

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

 

With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.

 

Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Bill in OKC too
 

Bunch of folks collected the info there to help Pat Delany with his Multimachine, and a concrete lathe based on it. Lots of good info there. I'm a moderator there, I can send you an invite if you want, or you can join on the website. I'll need your email address to send an invite, or here's the website: https://groups.io/g/multimachine

HTH!

Bill in OKC <---- wmrmeyers *at* yahoo *dot* com

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 3:11:59 PM CST, david pennington via Groups.Io <davidwpennington@...> wrote:


Marvelous, Bill!

One of my interests that I've not pursued in any way but thought is the matter of raising the level of available manufacturing technology in countries that lack modern machines.

David W. Pennington
Denver, Colorado
815-382-1994


On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 10:18:54 AM MST, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


WWI, also. Copy of an article from 1916 about Lucien Yeoman's' new method of making lathes (relatively) quickly and reducing the requirements for large iron castings is in the new Multimachine group at Groups.io. Copy of his patent is in the same folder. Some cool stuff if you're interested. ;)


Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 09:40:29 AM CST, George Wietor via Groups.Io <wietorg@...> wrote:


During WWII quite large lathes were built entirely of concrete in the U.S. to
save on iron. Not portable, but effective. George in GR


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

mike allen
 

        but ya just have to remember 1 thing & this is a direct quote from a but that owns a concrete outfit " it's concrete, its gonna crack !!"

        animal

On 12/28/2019 4:44 PM, Nelson Collar via Groups.Io wrote:
Roger 
I do not understand all the noise about concrete. Look at a concrete park bench, usually over 4 foot and I have never found one to sag. And they are not that thick! 
Nelson

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:54:54 AM CST, Roger Bickers via Groups.Io <mr.concrete1964@...> wrote:


A top limited to 3.5" will fail even with rebar. Your top should be at least 6" and would need a double matt of #4 rebar or else the top will sag and flex. 
Youd also need corner bars with 18" tails to join the top and legs together on the end of each matt.
The legs should be 2/3 of the overall size of the top in width to provide sound bearing and support, though I would definitely recommend a rebar cage here also.  

Sounds like overkill to ya? It's not. 

Oh and you'll still have to shim/ level the machine.

Do bother placing your cast iron lathe on aluminum either.. they'll fuse together.

Roger


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:53 PM, ww_big_al

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

 

With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.

 

Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Nelson Collar
 

Roger 
I do not understand all the noise about concrete. Look at a concrete park bench, usually over 4 foot and I have never found one to sag. And they are not that thick! 
Nelson

On Saturday, December 28, 2019, 08:54:54 AM CST, Roger Bickers via Groups.Io <mr.concrete1964@...> wrote:


A top limited to 3.5" will fail even with rebar. Your top should be at least 6" and would need a double matt of #4 rebar or else the top will sag and flex. 
Youd also need corner bars with 18" tails to join the top and legs together on the end of each matt.
The legs should be 2/3 of the overall size of the top in width to provide sound bearing and support, though I would definitely recommend a rebar cage here also.  

Sounds like overkill to ya? It's not. 

Oh and you'll still have to shim/ level the machine.

Do bother placing your cast iron lathe on aluminum either.. they'll fuse together.

Roger


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:53 PM, ww_big_al
<arknack@...> wrote:

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

 

With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.

 

Steven

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