Date   

Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Steven Schlegel
 

Good points. I have a 3-ton mobile gantry crane in the shop, so it's not a concern in my case.


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Jack Jennings <jejennings@...>
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 2:06:18 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
Steven,

About moving a heavy bench.  I have built two very heavy benches and on both have braced the legs with strong horizontal members just high enough to fit a pallet jack underneath.  These can also hold a low shelf.  When you want to move it, just push the pallet jack under it, jack it up, and pull it where you want. This also works if you want to lift it with a fork lift!  I have a 12 foot bench with an old 9 foot panel saw on it  that I move with two pallet jacks.

Jack



Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Jack Jennings
 

Steven,

About moving a heavy bench. I have built two very heavy benches and on both have braced the legs with strong horizontal members just high enough to fit a pallet jack underneath. These can also hold a low shelf. When you want to move it, just push the pallet jack under it, jack it up, and pull it where you want. This also works if you want to lift it with a fork lift! I have a 12 foot bench with an old 9 foot panel saw on it that I move with two pallet jacks.

Jack


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Steven Schlegel
 

The MDF forms are removed after the casting is completed. While I have seen some amazing cabinetry made with MDF, I seriously question it's strength.  Also, the dementions
will change after cutting. It is not dementionally stable.

Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Davis Johnson <davis@...>
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 2:55:16 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 

MDF heavy enough to support 300 pounds of wet concrete would make a fine lathe bench top.

On 1/2/20 6:10 PM, Steven Schlegel wrote:
I was thinking of a top about 3 in thick. It would be made with forms made from plastic laminated mdf. Holes would be drilled and nuts buried in place for mounting. I figure about 300 lbs of concrete. The base could be made of angle iron. Wood would work, too, but would need to be hefty.  The forms would be removed after the concrete set up. The concrete could be finished if needed. Shims would be used under the lathe bed legs to remove any bed twist. A three leg setup could be used to eliminate any twist from an uneven floor.  With a steel angle iron frame and legs there should be lots of room for shelves and storage under it. Moving it would be a bigger, but it is for most lathes.

I'm traveling, so please excuse any typing errors.
Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io <eddie.draper@...>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:44:48 PM
To: southbendlathe@groups.io <southbendlathe@groups.io>; SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
My 3 pennorth on lathe supports and foundations:

What matters most are rigidity, stability of dimensions and damping.  If any of those are already inbuilt in excess into the machine tool, then the other 2 in the support system can be reduced.  Thus, a substantial lathe can be mounted in a ship without its mountings being substantial.

If the lathe (etc.) has to be forced into shape because it is a bit twisted, you need a mounting that is TORSIONALLY stiff.  A single flat plate of anything has minimal torsional stiffness.  A single large hollow section is medium good, but would be much better with internal diagonal braces.  They don't need to be especially heavy.  You will note that the best lathes have diagonals cast into the bed structure.  Thick solid stuff (pretty well anything) is good because it naturally includes the diagonal bracing, and you will note that the concrete bench recenty illustrated has great thickness.  Torsional stiffness is also good for resisting cutting forces.

Stability comes from 3 issues, namely external inputs, temperature change and humidity change.  For example wood is very stable wrt temperature, but goes all over the place with humidity.  Different metals have different coefficients of expansion, ferrous being lower than non- ferrous (as a sweeping generality) and would match the lathe metal better.

Damping is inherent in some materilas and not others.  The simple test is whether you can make a good bell from it!

Finally, note that the stiffness of the job itself has great influence on the tendency to vibrate.

Eddie

On Saturday, 28 December 2019, 04:35:37 GMT, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


What Allan said. ;) Epoxy floor coating would probably work fine for a sealant. Maybe even Thompson's Water Seal. Let me know how it works out! 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 09:38:15 PM CST, Vince Beachy <vincebeachy@...> wrote:


Hey everyone,

New guy here, with some thoughts.  I really like this idea as I have some experience in tying rebar together and making forms.  

If you were to put some sealer on the top and have some channels/gutters could you also make a coolant system built into it?  Thoughts?

Vince

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 9:48 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
You ain't kidding! Though you could put shelves between the columns. I've seen a photo of one that was cast in one piece, similar to the one Carla described in the PM link someone posted earlier, and it just had a depression for a toe-kick, with maybe a bit of room for knees, too. Probably at least half again as much concrete as the one with the Atlas lathe on it. I'm thinking something like that would run close to half a ton by it's lonesome. I though I had a photo of that, but can't find it. If I ever do, I'll send it to the group. I've been looking for it for years. 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 07:46:32 PM CST, harry molwitz <harry.molwitz@...> wrote:


Might be tough to move around the shop, I would be certain of the positioning. It also seems to limit storage underneath.

Harry

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 6:11 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It would be interesting to test and see what difference, if any, it made in the accuracy of the lathe. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 04:17:08 PM CST, Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Here is a photo of what appears to be a concrete lathe bench with an Atlas-Craftsman lathe on top. Not my lathe, just a photo I found on-line some time back. Personally I think it's overkill. But concrete is relatively inexpensive so knock yourself out should you choose to go this route. Good luck.

Regards,
Steven R. Haskell
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ww_big_al <arknack@...>
To: SouthBendLathe <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2019 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.
Al
 
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.
 
Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Davis Johnson
 

MDF heavy enough to support 300 pounds of wet concrete would make a fine lathe bench top.

On 1/2/20 6:10 PM, Steven Schlegel wrote:
I was thinking of a top about 3 in thick. It would be made with forms made from plastic laminated mdf. Holes would be drilled and nuts buried in place for mounting. I figure about 300 lbs of concrete. The base could be made of angle iron. Wood would work, too, but would need to be hefty.  The forms would be removed after the concrete set up. The concrete could be finished if needed. Shims would be used under the lathe bed legs to remove any bed twist. A three leg setup could be used to eliminate any twist from an uneven floor.  With a steel angle iron frame and legs there should be lots of room for shelves and storage under it. Moving it would be a bigger, but it is for most lathes.

I'm traveling, so please excuse any typing errors.
Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io <eddie.draper@...>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:44:48 PM
To: southbendlathe@groups.io <southbendlathe@groups.io>; SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
My 3 pennorth on lathe supports and foundations:

What matters most are rigidity, stability of dimensions and damping.  If any of those are already inbuilt in excess into the machine tool, then the other 2 in the support system can be reduced.  Thus, a substantial lathe can be mounted in a ship without its mountings being substantial.

If the lathe (etc.) has to be forced into shape because it is a bit twisted, you need a mounting that is TORSIONALLY stiff.  A single flat plate of anything has minimal torsional stiffness.  A single large hollow section is medium good, but would be much better with internal diagonal braces.  They don't need to be especially heavy.  You will note that the best lathes have diagonals cast into the bed structure.  Thick solid stuff (pretty well anything) is good because it naturally includes the diagonal bracing, and you will note that the concrete bench recenty illustrated has great thickness.  Torsional stiffness is also good for resisting cutting forces.

Stability comes from 3 issues, namely external inputs, temperature change and humidity change.  For example wood is very stable wrt temperature, but goes all over the place with humidity.  Different metals have different coefficients of expansion, ferrous being lower than non- ferrous (as a sweeping generality) and would match the lathe metal better.

Damping is inherent in some materilas and not others.  The simple test is whether you can make a good bell from it!

Finally, note that the stiffness of the job itself has great influence on the tendency to vibrate.

Eddie

On Saturday, 28 December 2019, 04:35:37 GMT, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


What Allan said. ;) Epoxy floor coating would probably work fine for a sealant. Maybe even Thompson's Water Seal. Let me know how it works out! 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 09:38:15 PM CST, Vince Beachy <vincebeachy@...> wrote:


Hey everyone,

New guy here, with some thoughts.  I really like this idea as I have some experience in tying rebar together and making forms.  

If you were to put some sealer on the top and have some channels/gutters could you also make a coolant system built into it?  Thoughts?

Vince

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 9:48 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
You ain't kidding! Though you could put shelves between the columns. I've seen a photo of one that was cast in one piece, similar to the one Carla described in the PM link someone posted earlier, and it just had a depression for a toe-kick, with maybe a bit of room for knees, too. Probably at least half again as much concrete as the one with the Atlas lathe on it. I'm thinking something like that would run close to half a ton by it's lonesome. I though I had a photo of that, but can't find it. If I ever do, I'll send it to the group. I've been looking for it for years. 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 07:46:32 PM CST, harry molwitz <harry.molwitz@...> wrote:


Might be tough to move around the shop, I would be certain of the positioning. It also seems to limit storage underneath.

Harry

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 6:11 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It would be interesting to test and see what difference, if any, it made in the accuracy of the lathe. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 04:17:08 PM CST, Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Here is a photo of what appears to be a concrete lathe bench with an Atlas-Craftsman lathe on top. Not my lathe, just a photo I found on-line some time back. Personally I think it's overkill. But concrete is relatively inexpensive so knock yourself out should you choose to go this route. Good luck.

Regards,
Steven R. Haskell
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ww_big_al <arknack@...>
To: SouthBendLathe <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2019 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.
Al
 
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.
 
Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Guenther Paul
 

Butcher block counter tops are not sealed. You can seal them if you like. They are 1 1/2 thick   If you can find a piece of a bowling alley that would be much better but you may have to cut it to size  

GP


On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 9:58:00 PM EST, siufung chan via Groups.Io <wbcor@...> wrote:


Either at Home Depot or Lowe’s I saw the laminated “butcher block” table tops - just the tops. Due to all the lamination and lacquer coatings they are likely pretty stable. You could mount that on a sub frame. No matter the base you still need to align the lathe. You could do this on a periodic basis or just prior to some precision work. 
Personally, I like to keep it simple. 

Regard,
Bill

On Jan 2, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:


Just like i said all along why a concrete top. It will way more then your lathe and no real results. Sharpen your cutting tools properly your problems will go away

GP


On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 8:13:27 PM EST, Harry Ruble <bmw635csi@...> wrote:


So I have finally started building a new bench for my 9a. The base is a 2" tube steel platform that will become the foundation for the 4" thick concrete top. Here are the steps I have so far. Step 1. Start a concrete countertop hobby/part time business. While this step is optional (and somewhat ...
www.practicalmachinist.com
This is a link from pm that I believe shows some finish results latter in the thread. Very heavy bench that did seem to help.

Harry


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Nick Jonkman <njonkman@...>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:15 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head
stock now. Nick





Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

siufung chan
 

Either at Home Depot or Lowe’s I saw the laminated “butcher block” table tops - just the tops. Due to all the lamination and lacquer coatings they are likely pretty stable. You could mount that on a sub frame. No matter the base you still need to align the lathe. You could do this on a periodic basis or just prior to some precision work. 
Personally, I like to keep it simple. 

Regard,
Bill

On Jan 2, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:


Just like i said all along why a concrete top. It will way more then your lathe and no real results. Sharpen your cutting tools properly your problems will go away

GP


On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 8:13:27 PM EST, Harry Ruble <bmw635csi@...> wrote:


So I have finally started building a new bench for my 9a. The base is a 2" tube steel platform that will become the foundation for the 4" thick concrete top. Here are the steps I have so far. Step 1. Start a concrete countertop hobby/part time business. While this step is optional (and somewhat ...
www.practicalmachinist.com
This is a link from pm that I believe shows some finish results latter in the thread. Very heavy bench that did seem to help.

Harry


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Nick Jonkman <njonkman@...>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:15 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head
stock now. Nick





Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Bill in OKC too
 

I'm thinking you missed part of the thread. He did get quite nice results out of it. Check out the photos on the 3rd page. Also mentions accuracy to .0002". Not bad for a small lathe.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 7:45:40 PM CST, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:


Just like i said all along why a concrete top. It will way more then your lathe and no real results. Sharpen your cutting tools properly your problems will go away

GP


On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 8:13:27 PM EST, Harry Ruble <bmw635csi@...> wrote:


So I have finally started building a new bench for my 9a. The base is a 2" tube steel platform that will become the foundation for the 4" thick concrete top. Here are the steps I have so far. Step 1. Start a concrete countertop hobby/part time business. While this step is optional (and somewhat ...
www.practicalmachinist.com
This is a link from pm that I believe shows some finish results latter in the thread. Very heavy bench that did seem to help.

Harry


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Nick Jonkman <njonkman@...>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:15 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head
stock now. Nick





Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Bill in OKC too
 

Many thanks for posting that! It is the first example of results I've seen for such an adventure, and it looks quite promising! I'd hoped for such, based on my experience with lathes larger than the 9" & 10" SB lathes. I've not used a South Bend lathe since my high school machine shop class, closing on 47 years ago. In the class I'm taking now, they have Clausing Colchester 13" & 15" lathes. The "small" lathe is about 2700lbs, the larger ones 3800lbs, and my restoration project 10L is about 1000lbs. Not likely to be as spaghetti as my 267lbs Atlas TH42, but not as stiff as the 13" CC, either. I've gotten some good finishes from the 13", which I use most of the time as it's as close as I can get to what I have at home, and I can't afford to buy anything bigger, for now, anyway.

The Atlas is on a 3'x8' light steel table with a 1" thick baltic birch plywood top on 1/8" steel. My HF 7x10 mini-latheand Atlas MF horizontal mill will be there, too. The 10L came with one of the WWII tubular steel cabinets, which is a couple of hundred pound, and I don't see how it could be as stiff as the cast iron stands that they used to come with. Lathe is vintage 1941. Stand is probably a bit newer, but not verifiable, as the design was was submitted for patent in late 1939. My intent is to use the stands I have for now, and if I ever get a shop with a floor that won't crush under a little weight, I'll see about a bigger/heavier stand for both lathes. Though maybe not the 2-ton monstrosity he mentions and we've discussed a bit earlier.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 7:13:27 PM CST, Harry Ruble <bmw635csi@...> wrote:


So I have finally started building a new bench for my 9a. The base is a 2" tube steel platform that will become the foundation for the 4" thick concrete top. Here are the steps I have so far. Step 1. Start a concrete countertop hobby/part time business. While this step is optional (and somewhat ...
www.practicalmachinist.com
This is a link from pm that I believe shows some finish results latter in the thread. Very heavy bench that did seem to help.

Harry


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Nick Jonkman <njonkman@...>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:15 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head
stock now. Nick





Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Guenther Paul
 

Just like i said all along why a concrete top. It will way more then your lathe and no real results. Sharpen your cutting tools properly your problems will go away

GP


On Thursday, January 2, 2020, 8:13:27 PM EST, Harry Ruble <bmw635csi@...> wrote:


So I have finally started building a new bench for my 9a. The base is a 2" tube steel platform that will become the foundation for the 4" thick concrete top. Here are the steps I have so far. Step 1. Start a concrete countertop hobby/part time business. While this step is optional (and somewhat ...
www.practicalmachinist.com
This is a link from pm that I believe shows some finish results latter in the thread. Very heavy bench that did seem to help.

Harry


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Nick Jonkman <njonkman@...>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:15 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head
stock now. Nick





Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Harry Ruble
 

So I have finally started building a new bench for my 9a. The base is a 2" tube steel platform that will become the foundation for the 4" thick concrete top. Here are the steps I have so far. Step 1. Start a concrete countertop hobby/part time business. While this step is optional (and somewhat ...
www.practicalmachinist.com
This is a link from pm that I believe shows some finish results latter in the thread. Very heavy bench that did seem to help.

Harry


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Nick Jonkman <njonkman@...>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:15 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head
stock now. Nick





Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

mike allen
 

        why not use sonotuube

        animal

On 1/2/2020 3:10 PM, Steven Schlegel wrote:
I was thinking of a top about 3 in thick. It would be made with forms made from plastic laminated mdf. Holes would be drilled and nuts buried in place for mounting. I figure about 300 lbs of concrete. The base could be made of angle iron. Wood would work, too, but would need to be hefty.  The forms would be removed after the concrete set up. The concrete could be finished if needed. Shims would be used under the lathe bed legs to remove any bed twist. A three leg setup could be used to eliminate any twist from an uneven floor.  With a steel angle iron frame and legs there should be lots of room for shelves and storage under it. Moving it would be a bigger, but it is for most lathes.

I'm traveling, so please excuse any typing errors.
Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io <eddie.draper@...>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:44:48 PM
To: southbendlathe@groups.io <southbendlathe@groups.io>; SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
My 3 pennorth on lathe supports and foundations:

What matters most are rigidity, stability of dimensions and damping.  If any of those are already inbuilt in excess into the machine tool, then the other 2 in the support system can be reduced.  Thus, a substantial lathe can be mounted in a ship without its mountings being substantial.

If the lathe (etc.) has to be forced into shape because it is a bit twisted, you need a mounting that is TORSIONALLY stiff.  A single flat plate of anything has minimal torsional stiffness.  A single large hollow section is medium good, but would be much better with internal diagonal braces.  They don't need to be especially heavy.  You will note that the best lathes have diagonals cast into the bed structure.  Thick solid stuff (pretty well anything) is good because it naturally includes the diagonal bracing, and you will note that the concrete bench recenty illustrated has great thickness.  Torsional stiffness is also good for resisting cutting forces.

Stability comes from 3 issues, namely external inputs, temperature change and humidity change.  For example wood is very stable wrt temperature, but goes all over the place with humidity.  Different metals have different coefficients of expansion, ferrous being lower than non- ferrous (as a sweeping generality) and would match the lathe metal better.

Damping is inherent in some materilas and not others.  The simple test is whether you can make a good bell from it!

Finally, note that the stiffness of the job itself has great influence on the tendency to vibrate.

Eddie

On Saturday, 28 December 2019, 04:35:37 GMT, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


What Allan said. ;) Epoxy floor coating would probably work fine for a sealant. Maybe even Thompson's Water Seal. Let me know how it works out! 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 09:38:15 PM CST, Vince Beachy <vincebeachy@...> wrote:


Hey everyone,

New guy here, with some thoughts.  I really like this idea as I have some experience in tying rebar together and making forms.  

If you were to put some sealer on the top and have some channels/gutters could you also make a coolant system built into it?  Thoughts?

Vince

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 9:48 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
You ain't kidding! Though you could put shelves between the columns. I've seen a photo of one that was cast in one piece, similar to the one Carla described in the PM link someone posted earlier, and it just had a depression for a toe-kick, with maybe a bit of room for knees, too. Probably at least half again as much concrete as the one with the Atlas lathe on it. I'm thinking something like that would run close to half a ton by it's lonesome. I though I had a photo of that, but can't find it. If I ever do, I'll send it to the group. I've been looking for it for years. 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 07:46:32 PM CST, harry molwitz <harry.molwitz@...> wrote:


Might be tough to move around the shop, I would be certain of the positioning. It also seems to limit storage underneath.

Harry

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 6:11 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It would be interesting to test and see what difference, if any, it made in the accuracy of the lathe. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 04:17:08 PM CST, Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Here is a photo of what appears to be a concrete lathe bench with an Atlas-Craftsman lathe on top. Not my lathe, just a photo I found on-line some time back. Personally I think it's overkill. But concrete is relatively inexpensive so knock yourself out should you choose to go this route. Good luck.

Regards,
Steven R. Haskell
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ww_big_al <arknack@...>
To: SouthBendLathe <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2019 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.
Al
 
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.
 
Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Steven Schlegel
 

I was thinking of a top about 3 in thick. It would be made with forms made from plastic laminated mdf. Holes would be drilled and nuts buried in place for mounting. I figure about 300 lbs of concrete. The base could be made of angle iron. Wood would work, too, but would need to be hefty.  The forms would be removed after the concrete set up. The concrete could be finished if needed. Shims would be used under the lathe bed legs to remove any bed twist. A three leg setup could be used to eliminate any twist from an uneven floor.  With a steel angle iron frame and legs there should be lots of room for shelves and storage under it. Moving it would be a bigger, but it is for most lathes.

I'm traveling, so please excuse any typing errors.
Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io <eddie.draper@...>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:44:48 PM
To: southbendlathe@groups.io <southbendlathe@groups.io>; SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
My 3 pennorth on lathe supports and foundations:

What matters most are rigidity, stability of dimensions and damping.  If any of those are already inbuilt in excess into the machine tool, then the other 2 in the support system can be reduced.  Thus, a substantial lathe can be mounted in a ship without its mountings being substantial.

If the lathe (etc.) has to be forced into shape because it is a bit twisted, you need a mounting that is TORSIONALLY stiff.  A single flat plate of anything has minimal torsional stiffness.  A single large hollow section is medium good, but would be much better with internal diagonal braces.  They don't need to be especially heavy.  You will note that the best lathes have diagonals cast into the bed structure.  Thick solid stuff (pretty well anything) is good because it naturally includes the diagonal bracing, and you will note that the concrete bench recenty illustrated has great thickness.  Torsional stiffness is also good for resisting cutting forces.

Stability comes from 3 issues, namely external inputs, temperature change and humidity change.  For example wood is very stable wrt temperature, but goes all over the place with humidity.  Different metals have different coefficients of expansion, ferrous being lower than non- ferrous (as a sweeping generality) and would match the lathe metal better.

Damping is inherent in some materilas and not others.  The simple test is whether you can make a good bell from it!

Finally, note that the stiffness of the job itself has great influence on the tendency to vibrate.

Eddie

On Saturday, 28 December 2019, 04:35:37 GMT, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


What Allan said. ;) Epoxy floor coating would probably work fine for a sealant. Maybe even Thompson's Water Seal. Let me know how it works out! 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 09:38:15 PM CST, Vince Beachy <vincebeachy@...> wrote:


Hey everyone,

New guy here, with some thoughts.  I really like this idea as I have some experience in tying rebar together and making forms.  

If you were to put some sealer on the top and have some channels/gutters could you also make a coolant system built into it?  Thoughts?

Vince

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 9:48 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
You ain't kidding! Though you could put shelves between the columns. I've seen a photo of one that was cast in one piece, similar to the one Carla described in the PM link someone posted earlier, and it just had a depression for a toe-kick, with maybe a bit of room for knees, too. Probably at least half again as much concrete as the one with the Atlas lathe on it. I'm thinking something like that would run close to half a ton by it's lonesome. I though I had a photo of that, but can't find it. If I ever do, I'll send it to the group. I've been looking for it for years. 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 07:46:32 PM CST, harry molwitz <harry.molwitz@...> wrote:


Might be tough to move around the shop, I would be certain of the positioning. It also seems to limit storage underneath.

Harry

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 6:11 PM Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It would be interesting to test and see what difference, if any, it made in the accuracy of the lathe. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Friday, December 27, 2019, 04:17:08 PM CST, Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Here is a photo of what appears to be a concrete lathe bench with an Atlas-Craftsman lathe on top. Not my lathe, just a photo I found on-line some time back. Personally I think it's overkill. But concrete is relatively inexpensive so knock yourself out should you choose to go this route. Good luck.

Regards,
Steven R. Haskell
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ww_big_al <arknack@...>
To: SouthBendLathe <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2019 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

I don’t know about a lathe table, but I do fill my grinder pedestal stands with either concrete or sand. That dampen vibrations a lot.
Al
 
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Schlegel
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 11:12 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?
 
With all of the discussions about lathe tables, I have to ask:  What is your opinion about making one out of concrete?  I have heard they are very dead (no spring) so makes turning a lot easier.  As I approach putting my 1940 SB 9” A and C lathes into operation, I am planning ahead for the tables.
 
Steven


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Guenther Paul
 

A laminated sealed slab of wood is fine Bill 

GP


On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 8:14:08 PM EST, RJ White via Groups.Io <soilrelocator@...> wrote:





On Dec 31, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Dave, wood is a lousy choice if you want the best accuracy your lathe is capable of. Hardwood is generally better than softwood, and Maple is supposed to be the best wood, but I don't know anyone who can afford enough maple to build a workbench for a lathe. Steel would be better, but it ain't cheap, either. ;) Gotta admit I've participated in a number of these discussions, on several of the yahoo (and now Groups.io) boards, and I've never seen a report back on how well it worked. I'd really like to see a comparison of how well a particular lathe worked on a wood bench such as you describe, on a steel bench such as came with my 10L, and/or the heavy cast iron benches, and on a concrete bench. Seems to me the discussion on PM where, (I think it was Carla) OP said she'd seen the WPB brochure on the concrete bench is the closest I've seen to an evaluation. Seems to me she said it did help, but I'd have to go look again. I know that about 9 or 10 years ago, I saw photos of a bench someone had built that was supposed to be like the WPB bench. I'm a lousy artist or I'd try to draw what I remember, and it probably would have stabilized the heck out of just about any spaghetti lathe. It was cast in one piece. Thickish steel plate top, fat headstock support pillar, lighter tailstock pillar, a bit of a toekick depression in the front, and rounded corners on the sides. Couldn't see the back of it, and I've not been able to find that picture again. Guy by the name of Lucien Yeomans was building large lathes, shapers, and planers out of concrete during WWI, and it worked great. They were just NOT portable, so there are photos, but apparently no surviving examples. Check out https://groups.io/g/multimachine for some of the articles about those machines. Concrete works, but like everything else, it has advantages and disadvantages.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 9:32:21 AM CST, Dave P. <thespamcatcher@...> wrote:


This has got to be at least the second time if not the third over the years - more than I would like to admit to, that there has been a long winded discussion about building a concrete bench for a tool like a lathe. I don't know if it was this group or one of the other Southbend groups or maybe another type of lathe group. I suggest anyone that is more interested than I am might want to search some of the old posts here or in the other groups to see if there was any definitive conclusion as to the worth of such a laborious endeavor when there are simpler and just as workable solutions. A 2x4 workbench top on 4x4 legs would be my choice if I were in the need of something more sturdy than a heavy solid core door on good solid legs.

Just my $0.02 worth -
Dave


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

RJ White
 




On Dec 31, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Dave, wood is a lousy choice if you want the best accuracy your lathe is capable of. Hardwood is generally better than softwood, and Maple is supposed to be the best wood, but I don't know anyone who can afford enough maple to build a workbench for a lathe. Steel would be better, but it ain't cheap, either. ;) Gotta admit I've participated in a number of these discussions, on several of the yahoo (and now Groups.io) boards, and I've never seen a report back on how well it worked. I'd really like to see a comparison of how well a particular lathe worked on a wood bench such as you describe, on a steel bench such as came with my 10L, and/or the heavy cast iron benches, and on a concrete bench. Seems to me the discussion on PM where, (I think it was Carla) OP said she'd seen the WPB brochure on the concrete bench is the closest I've seen to an evaluation. Seems to me she said it did help, but I'd have to go look again. I know that about 9 or 10 years ago, I saw photos of a bench someone had built that was supposed to be like the WPB bench. I'm a lousy artist or I'd try to draw what I remember, and it probably would have stabilized the heck out of just about any spaghetti lathe. It was cast in one piece. Thickish steel plate top, fat headstock support pillar, lighter tailstock pillar, a bit of a toekick depression in the front, and rounded corners on the sides. Couldn't see the back of it, and I've not been able to find that picture again. Guy by the name of Lucien Yeomans was building large lathes, shapers, and planers out of concrete during WWI, and it worked great. They were just NOT portable, so there are photos, but apparently no surviving examples. Check out https://groups.io/g/multimachine for some of the articles about those machines. Concrete works, but like everything else, it has advantages and disadvantages.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 9:32:21 AM CST, Dave P. <thespamcatcher@...> wrote:


This has got to be at least the second time if not the third over the years - more than I would like to admit to, that there has been a long winded discussion about building a concrete bench for a tool like a lathe. I don't know if it was this group or one of the other Southbend groups or maybe another type of lathe group. I suggest anyone that is more interested than I am might want to search some of the old posts here or in the other groups to see if there was any definitive conclusion as to the worth of such a laborious endeavor when there are simpler and just as workable solutions. A 2x4 workbench top on 4x4 legs would be my choice if I were in the need of something more sturdy than a heavy solid core door on good solid legs.

Just my $0.02 worth -
Dave


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Bill in OKC too
 

Dave, wood is a lousy choice if you want the best accuracy your lathe is capable of. Hardwood is generally better than softwood, and Maple is supposed to be the best wood, but I don't know anyone who can afford enough maple to build a workbench for a lathe. Steel would be better, but it ain't cheap, either. ;) Gotta admit I've participated in a number of these discussions, on several of the yahoo (and now Groups.io) boards, and I've never seen a report back on how well it worked. I'd really like to see a comparison of how well a particular lathe worked on a wood bench such as you describe, on a steel bench such as came with my 10L, and/or the heavy cast iron benches, and on a concrete bench. Seems to me the discussion on PM where, (I think it was Carla) OP said she'd seen the WPB brochure on the concrete bench is the closest I've seen to an evaluation. Seems to me she said it did help, but I'd have to go look again. I know that about 9 or 10 years ago, I saw photos of a bench someone had built that was supposed to be like the WPB bench. I'm a lousy artist or I'd try to draw what I remember, and it probably would have stabilized the heck out of just about any spaghetti lathe. It was cast in one piece. Thickish steel plate top, fat headstock support pillar, lighter tailstock pillar, a bit of a toekick depression in the front, and rounded corners on the sides. Couldn't see the back of it, and I've not been able to find that picture again. Guy by the name of Lucien Yeomans was building large lathes, shapers, and planers out of concrete during WWI, and it worked great. They were just NOT portable, so there are photos, but apparently no surviving examples. Check out https://groups.io/g/multimachine for some of the articles about those machines. Concrete works, but like everything else, it has advantages and disadvantages.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 9:32:21 AM CST, Dave P. <thespamcatcher@...> wrote:


This has got to be at least the second time if not the third over the years - more than I would like to admit to, that there has been a long winded discussion about building a concrete bench for a tool like a lathe. I don't know if it was this group or one of the other Southbend groups or maybe another type of lathe group. I suggest anyone that is more interested than I am might want to search some of the old posts here or in the other groups to see if there was any definitive conclusion as to the worth of such a laborious endeavor when there are simpler and just as workable solutions. A 2x4 workbench top on 4x4 legs would be my choice if I were in the need of something more sturdy than a heavy solid core door on good solid legs.

Just my $0.02 worth -
Dave


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Dave P.
 

This has got to be at least the second time if not the third over the years - more than I would like to admit to, that there has been a long winded discussion about building a concrete bench for a tool like a lathe. I don't know if it was this group or one of the other Southbend groups or maybe another type of lathe group. I suggest anyone that is more interested than I am might want to search some of the old posts here or in the other groups to see if there was any definitive conclusion as to the worth of such a laborious endeavor when there are simpler and just as workable solutions. A 2x4 workbench top on 4x4 legs would be my choice if I were in the need of something more sturdy than a heavy solid core door on good solid legs.

Just my $0.02 worth -
Dave


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

Guenther Paul
 

Al
You have to consider you have a small lathe. I have no problem taking 0.100 cuts or more depending on the type of material. A lot has to do with the type of cutting tool you use and how you sharpen it. I am not a fan of carbide but do use it. A 3/4 in bench top is not enough thickness to mount the lathe on.. I can understand your mounting bolts coming lose. Like i said before i have mine mounted on a 1 3/4 solid core door slab, i have no problems. If you think concrete is the solution poor a slab 2" thick, Just make sure you have re-bar  in the concert you can poor it like a concrete counter top, but why all this work and expense. When you mount the lathe have the mounting bolts go all the way threw the slab
GP


On Monday, December 30, 2019, 9:19:32 PM EST, ww_big_al <arknack@...> wrote:


I would say just try it. If it don’t work you learn and try something else. Would be the first time I wasted $25 or $50 trying something. Let us know how it works out for you. We can all learn then. 

Al Knack

On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:57 PM, Dale Scroggins <scrof@...> wrote:

Guenther, I want to reduce or eliminate chatter.  I realize that other factors contribute to chatter, but if I can eliminate one cause at low cost, why not do so?  Material costs about $25.

I live in a region that has big humidity swings and have no air conditioning in my shop.  Metal things bolted to wood tend to loosen.  My lathe is currently through-bolted to a 3/4 plywood bench top.  That's how it was mounted when I got it.  When it starts moaning in a cut, the first thing I check are the leg bolts.  They often have loosened up.  Doubling up on the plywood or using a solid core door would likely make the bolt loosening problem worse.  I know that keeping the wood sealed would help, but that's a lot of work.  That's one reason I went to cement board siding on our house a few years ago.

I like the wheels on this lathe bench.  I can keep them, I think, if the lathe is isolated from twisting as the bench is moved around.  I can do that with one bag of concrete mix.  


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

david pennington
 

Hey, y'all,

I just did a Google search, "concrete lathe table". It returned several pages of results, including images, videos, and how-to. 

Dave

David W. Pennington
Denver, Colorado
815-382-1994


On Monday, December 30, 2019, 5:04:41 PM MST, david pennington via Groups.Io <davidwpennington@...> wrote:


Dale, my lathe was mounted on 3/4" plywood, supported on a rectangular perimeter and across the center. It was bolted with bolt and nut. That was too flimsy.

I looked at the SB recommended table top and could not obtain/afford the maple butcher block top, so I glued two layers of 3/4" plywood together and sealed all 6 sides with spar varnish. The bolting of the lathe to the table top is with 3/8" bolts and T-nuts. I kept the original 3/4" plywood layer on top of the glued assembly. I've had that setup for about 5 years and through four moves.

The work I do on the lathe is generally instrument making, so I don't attempt heavy cuts, but I do some work at the limits of precision for the lathe.

One thing I have not attempted is to make my lathe/cabinet assembly movable. It's set it up to stay put.

Hope that's encouraging.

Dave

David W. Pennington
Denver, Colorado
815-382-1994


On Monday, December 30, 2019, 4:31:58 PM MST, oscar kern via Groups.Io <kernbigo@...> wrote:



It's a lathe not a grinder get real, your over thinking


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

ww_big_al
 

I would say just try it. If it don’t work you learn and try something else. Would be the first time I wasted $25 or $50 trying something. Let us know how it works out for you. We can all learn then. 

Al Knack

On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:57 PM, Dale Scroggins <scrof@...> wrote:

Guenther, I want to reduce or eliminate chatter.  I realize that other factors contribute to chatter, but if I can eliminate one cause at low cost, why not do so?  Material costs about $25.

I live in a region that has big humidity swings and have no air conditioning in my shop.  Metal things bolted to wood tend to loosen.  My lathe is currently through-bolted to a 3/4 plywood bench top.  That's how it was mounted when I got it.  When it starts moaning in a cut, the first thing I check are the leg bolts.  They often have loosened up.  Doubling up on the plywood or using a solid core door would likely make the bolt loosening problem worse.  I know that keeping the wood sealed would help, but that's a lot of work.  That's one reason I went to cement board siding on our house a few years ago.

I like the wheels on this lathe bench.  I can keep them, I think, if the lathe is isolated from twisting as the bench is moved around.  I can do that with one bag of concrete mix.  


Re: Southbend 9" lathe table in CONCRETE?

fwhite913
 

https://www.lumberjocks.com/ssnvet/blog/44641

Another design for concrete lathe support stand

 

 

On 12/30/2019 06:15 PM, Nick Jonkman wrote:

Here is the stand I built for my 9A. It is of 2" square tubing with some 
angle supporting the tool box.It has 5 legs, 4 around the tool box and 
one at the tail stock end. I suppose it probably about 50 pounds and the 
box probably adds about 100 pounds. I have a nut welded in the bottom of 
each leg wit a 1/2" bolt in them so adjust the legs so they all touch 
the floor. the plate at the top and the small piece under the tail stock 
are 1/4" thick, The tray plate and back are 1/8". I have no issue with 
chatter.  The weight of the tool box probably dampens it. I love it. I 
first built it for a 6" Atlas which I sold and then adapted it for my 
SB. It worked out fine but I don't have as much space left of the head 
stock now. Nick